Hello

[jj33]

jj33, that is quite a story. I can't imagine going through all that, and then having to continue to work with the person after it all. Do you think seeing him through work has held you back from moving on? Seems like it would be really hard.

 

I hope you're doing ok, and continue posting.

 

Seeing him was not difficult when we were getting along. I accepted the fact that he felt as you did. That he loved me, had he met me first we would be together but that wasnt the way things were and as we were practically living together for a time M-F and it wasnt enough the A had nowhere to go.

 

It was a year or so after it ended when there were constant communications that he insisted werent personal that things got more difficult. Its been so long now and it got so ugly that now I just ignore it all and chalk it up to nothing. Wed both be better off if our paths never crossed again but because of the positions we hold in our field thats unlikely to ever happen even if I moved to Shanghai. Its a very small industry and the global players all know each other and deal with each other in some way or another.

 

Anyway I see where you are coming from and that is why I say dont contact her.

 

I hope you find peace. Its not easy when your heart says one thing and your head says another. I know he struggled with it for a long long time. It infuriated him that he couldnt simply put it in its box and move on to simpler pleasures (eg an OW he didnt love; his W doesnt mind that so long as he brings home the bacon and shows up to play happy family when required).

[whichwayisup]

Sounds great.

 

And I will. Come October 1st, gentle ass kicking will occur!

 

In the meantime, just take each day as it comes and don't allow yourself to wallow, reminise, fantasize about the exOW. All that will do is feed your feelings and keep them alive. You say you're in NC mode with the exOW, and that's good, but you need to do NC in your head too. If you have a bad day, make sure you put constant effort in the next day to move ahead and NOT slip backwards. Im sure it won't be easy but wanting to get over her, even more so since you've chosen to stay at home, and work on your marriage, connect with your wife, you HAVE to be proactive about it. The obligation, responsibility and your vows, the life you created with your wife IS more important than your affair. What your wife feels counts more. Remember that.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't know if this was directed at me, but I don't think I'm pining, and I'm definitely not holding out hope for exOW. The A is over and I'm likely never going to talk to or see exOW again. I posted to offer insight into my perspective, to vent, and to help myself grieve and get over her.

 

No, it wasn't directed at you, it followed the conversation at that point about NC being forever.

 

I think to not view NC as forever is to pine. You have clearly stated in this thread that it is "NC not LC". So I don't think you are pining.

 

I can get that you aren't ready to do anything for your M. My H needed about three to six months to consider the M after his EA. So I get it. I took that time to consider what I wanted as well (the advice by most is not to make any major decisions for a year after the discovery of an A). But I had the benefit of a d-day and knowledge of the fact that for a period of my M I was being deceived.

 

Anyway, I commend you for sticking to and committing to NC. It would really hurt you more and set you back to Square One (or worst, cause a D-day) if you break NC. Breaking NC is far more damaging, IMO, than initiating and maintaining it when the reasons for it haven't changed.

 

(FTR, I don't think NC has to be "forever". I think its to be maintained so long as the reasons for wanting/needing it exist. If the M/kids were the reasons, and those things are no longer the issue, I see no reason to maintain it if both parties agree to the new R possible.)

[pureinheart]

I don't know Owl.. It all sounds so self-help handbook, so sorted out into rules and ordered. Emotional issues are not like mathematical formulas. Although I appreciate your intention of helping.

 

I lost my first great love when I was young and I had no hope of ever getting him back. I tried to get on with my life and eventually got married (to Mr Wrong by the way). I was so busy, firts being in love and shortly after dealing with serious problems in my M that the thought of my First Great Love never entered my mind.

 

But several years later, out of the, blue he started coming to me in my dreams (I know it sounds crazy but that's exactly how it felt). Two years of that and we bumped into each other in quite unusual circumstances. My feelings for him exploded just as if they had always been there.

 

Nearly 10 years have passed since then (in the meantime I got D for a different reason) and I met him a few more times and what I've experienced so far makes me think that my feelings for him will be there for as long as I live. Him and I cannot be together, so life goes on and I can still love others but my heart is broken in some part and always will be because of him.

 

My ex-fiance said to me once when we were trying to work out in our R and fighting...I was arguing with him to do this, that and the other (in that order), he simply stated, we can't do this, I can't do this, as it seems so clinical....it has to come natural. I didn't get that at the time, but do now:o...wish I would have then (he was HOT, with a capitol H).

 

Wow, Ellin, this is an awesome story...dreams too! Wow, thanks for sharing this! Sorry though for the broken heart....I understand.

[GreenEyedLady]

Hmm...so what is the message now?

 

OW while you are still devastated about the end of the A, the MM will go on his merry way, connecting with his W, exercising to stay strong and then go off to tell his counselor what he's been up to so he can find his "truth."

 

And the clincher, that he has no plans of breaking NC and is undulating in all the praise he is receiving from both sides; those who adore that he is trying to "fix" his M and the OW who adore that he let his OW go even though he LOVED her.

 

Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

Hmm...so what is the message now?

 

OW while you are still devastated about the end of the A, the MM will go on his merry way, connecting with his W, exercising to stay strong and then go off to tell his counselor what he's been up to so he can find his "truth."

 

And the clincher, that he has no plans of breaking NC and is undulating in all the praise he is receiving from both sides; those who adore that he is trying to "fix" his M and the OW who adore that he let his OW go even though he LOVED her.

 

Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

 

GEL

 

 

LOL. I wouldn't say those who are advising BHMM to focus on his M are "praising" him so much as encouraging him to stay the course as he may be able to "fix" his M without the distraction of the A and the OW. I can't speak to what the OW are getting out of it as proof of love doesn't a commitment make.

 

The previous thread seemed to be as much for BH as it was said to be a perspective that the OW. I've had an ex call or send word through the grapevine that he "loved" me. I was not impressed. It didn't make me feel any better about the break up. It seemed to be more of his empty yet pretty words as his mouth was moving, but nothing was happening as it was only words. But it seemed to make my ex feel better.

 

I'm curious. What do you see wrong with this picture? There was previous speculation that BH is not a MM at all, but that's just speculation. What motivation could someone have in wanting all "sides" on "their" side?

[GreenEyedLady]

LOL. I wouldn't say those who are advising BHMM to focus on his M are "praising" him so much as encouraging him to stay the course as he may be able to "fix" his M without the distraction of the A and the OW. I can't speak to what the OW are getting out of it as proof of love doesn't a commitment make.

 

The previous thread seemed to be as much for BH as it was said to be a perspective that the OW. I've had an ex call or send word through the grapevine that he "loved" me. I was not impressed. It didn't make me feel any better about the break up. It seemed to be more of his empty yet pretty words as his mouth was moving, but nothing was happening as it was only words. But it seemed to make my ex feel better.

 

I'm curious. What do you see wrong with this picture? There was previous speculation that BH is not a MM at all, but that's just speculation. What motivation could someone have in wanting all "sides" on "their" side?

 

What's wrong? No consequences negative at all. No reason to never have an A again.

 

Instead quite the opposite. It's all kept undercover, W doesn't know the truth, OW thinks he's noble for staying in the M because SHE is the one he loves.

 

An outlet to meet the next OW...

 

I see lots of things wrong with this picture because there is no outside accountability or checks and balances. Including counseling. He can paint this picture however he likes to his counselor to get the most sympathy and the praise he seems to flower under. That's pretty apparent by his responses on the thread.

 

If anything it should put every OW on this site on pause. This could very well be their MM (X). He's not heartbroken. He's fine. He's not really thinking of them enough to even contact them. He wasn't affected enough by their love to make any change at all. In fact as more time passes, he just connects even more with his W who loves the attention he's giving her without her being the wiser.

 

Bet she would love to know the truth. That's twice as scary. To lay in bed next to a man who you THINK is being so loving and nice to you because he loves you and not because he dumped his mistress.

 

I guess maybe that's just the reality. I would think that more people would be holding him accountable. He's not accountable in real life, so I guess, why accountability on the world wide web?

 

Sets a bad precedent to me and makes me think he's going to cheat again because nothing has changed, especially not him.

 

GEL

[NoIDidn't]

What's wrong? No consequences negative at all. No reason to never have an A again.

 

Instead quite the opposite. It's all kept undercover, W doesn't know the truth, OW thinks he's noble for staying in the M because SHE is the one he loves.

 

An outlet to meet the next OW...

 

I see lots of things wrong with this picture because there is no outside accountability or checks and balances. Including counseling. He can paint this picture however he likes to his counselor to get the most sympathy and the praise he seems to flower under. That's pretty apparent by his responses on the thread.

 

If anything it should put every OW on this site on pause. This could very well be their MM (X). He's not heartbroken. He's fine. He's not really thinking of them enough to even contact them. He wasn't affected enough by their love to make any change at all. In fact as more time passes, he just connects even more with his W who loves the attention he's giving her without her being the wiser.

 

Bet she would love to know the truth. That's twice as scary. To lay in bed next to a man who you THINK is being so loving and nice to you because he loves you and not because he dumped his mistress.

 

I guess maybe that's just the reality. I would think that more people would be holding him accountable. He's not accountable in real life, so I guess, why accountability on the world wide web?

 

Sets a bad precedent to me and makes me think he's going to cheat again because nothing has changed, especially not him.

 

GEL

 

I see your point and I agree. The "consequences" were spoken of in the thread that was closed. And its pretty obvious that he and his cheerleaders were offended by some of the posts that weren't completely supportive or called him on some things stated about the OW or his W.

 

I remember a poster saying that he possibly abandoned the other thread because of the holiday weekend. I posted that I was surprised that some OW were quick to rationalize his absence for him, basically giving him the very "reason" he would later use when he returned.

 

Not saying that he didn't have the right to stop posting to that thread or that he wasn't enjoying the Holiday with his family. But I just found the quick to defend his absence a larger pattern for some.

 

And its a pattern I've witnessed in some MM over and over again. Leaving and coming back with no consequences. None from the W because she's being gaslighted. None from the OW because she decided to make excuses for his absence.

 

It definitely makes for a situation with no accountability on the part of the MM. The W can't hold him accountable for what he lies to her about. The OW gets dumped for trying to hold him accountable for the assumed promises over the years.

 

You do make a good point about the "no A again". Nothing posted so far says that BH won't have another affair. Just that he won't start up with that same OW again. Interesting point.

[2sunny]

he did state he was starting counseling soon and expected to admit to his affair up front at the first appointment.

 

as far as no negative consequences - well isn't that why he left his OW? yep.

 

does it leave the door open for future affairs? maybe... but he is going to work on that through counseling.

 

it will be interesting if he will allow us to see what his progress looks like as he moves through his sessions.

[WalkInThePark]

Is it just me or doesn't anyone else see something wrong with this picture?

 

It's not just you. I think he's being very easy on himself. And is very pleased with himself, like "I sure organized things smoothly."

 

I find it all cold and calculated.

 

It's all about HIM. What he wants. Has he ever wondered if this is the way his W wants to be married? Has he ever made an agreement with his W about her being OK with him having an A as long as she does not know? I thought love meant trying not to hurt your partner. Most people feel very hurt when their partner cheats on them and lies to them.

Edited September 9, 2010 by WalkInThePark

[LifesontheUp]

It's all about HIM. What he wants. Has he ever wondered if this is the way his W wants to be married? Has he ever made an agreement with his W about her being OK with him having an A as long as she does not know?

 

Of course its all about him.

 

I'm not sure if anything "gives me the right" to make the decision for my wife, but that's the way it is.

 

Where does my she count? I walked away from the A and the OW I'm in love with to try and rebuild my M and spend the rest of my life devoted to my W.[/Quote]

 

Well hey, thats the way it is. What a selfish selfish man. And to top it off, his wife should be grateful he's had his 3 year affair and now going to devote his life to her?

 

I couldn't agree more with GELs' post. No consequences so no reason to change.

Edited September 9, 2010 by LifesontheUp
spelling

[WalkInThePark]

"I'm not sure if anything "gives me the right" to make the decision for my wife, but that's the way it is."

 

This is a false argument. This is not something that is the way it is, like being 6 ft. tall or having blue eyes is. This is a choice you have made. You are a coward who refuses to face the music. The moral thing to do would be to come forward about your affair and tell you wife you ended the affair and that you stay in the marriage in the first place for your kids.

That way your wife can make a choice based on correct information.

 

What you are doing is called manipulation. Now if it is your choice to manipulate, noone here will be stop you from doing that. But do not present it as altruism.

[whichwayisup]

This is a false argument. This is not something that is the way it is, like being 6 ft. tall or having blue eyes is. This is a choice you have made. You are a coward who refuses to face the music.

 

Ofcourse he's scared to confess. It takes a person who is strong, and totally ready to face whatever consquences that come their way after having an affair and confessing. If he tells, everything changes, it's out of his control. And he may not like what how his wife reacts, or handles the fact that he cheated on her for 3 years. It's easier for him to keep it quiet so he won't have to change, put in a hell of alot MORE effort than he is prepared to make, deal with mistrust and accusations, and being checked upon constantly.

 

I do believe he is making the wrong choice by not telling his wife the truth, if she finds out one day on her own it'll be harder for her to give him a chance to prove himself again. What if the OW decides to tell? Never say never.. Or somebody found out and decides to tell his wife. Again, never say never.

 

Anyway, it's a mute point in general since confessing ain't gonna happen.

[jj33]

I agree with GELs post as well but its early days. His own behavior could give him away or over time he could change his mind. You never know. But if he keeps gaslighting her theres got to be karma for that.

[2sure]

For my exH...much of the intrigue & enjoyment of cheating was from his own planning and cleverness. Even when he wasnt actively cheating he probably felt pretty good about his ability to have done what he wanted, not get caught, and his ability to keep me happy meanwhile. Just like for so many others, it was the whole : this little piece of my life just for me.

And for some: Not telling, but coming here to talk about it - not have questions...is just a further way of reliving it. Getting validation. Proving cleverness.

 

After all of the begging , the stumped look they get on their faces when they realize your gone is worth more than the divorce settlement.

 

Nah.I'm teasing. LOL. Not THAT much!!

[BB07]

2sure, you have a very unique and different outlook on your view of things. I enjoy reading your posts and thing you have valuable input.

 

Now back on topic.....I too wonder what BHMM is really getting out of his continuing posts. Maybe in some ways it makes him not feel as bad about the choices he has made. I hate to say it, but he is getting some validation here in at least two different ways. Because he did love his OW and because he went back to his marriage. IMO, the whole thing is screwed up, he made a bad choice by having the affair to start with, then he has admitted that OW and him were for sure considering a future together, but he later dumped her. Then he goes back to his marriage, but he doesn't fess up. IMO, none of these actions deserve pats on the back. He is just another flawed man who made some really bad choices, but yet he still doesn't seem to be suffering any consequences other than his own grief over his OW. Something is wrong with this picture.

[Silly_Girl]

2sure, you have a very unique and different outlook on your view of things. I enjoy reading your posts and thing you have valuable input.

 

Now back on topic.....I too wonder what BHMM is really getting out of his continuing posts. Maybe in some ways it makes him not feel as bad about the choices he has made. I hate to say it, but he is getting some validation here in at least two different ways. Because he did love his OW and because he went back to his marriage. IMO, the whole thing is screwed up, he made a bad choice by having the affair to start with, then he has admitted that OW and him were for sure considering a future together, but he later dumped her. Then he goes back to his marriage, but he doesn't fess up. IMO, none of these actions deserve pats on the back. He is just another flawed man who made some really bad choices, but yet he still doesn't seem to be suffering any consequences other than his own grief over his OW. Something is wrong with this picture.

 

BB, perhaps posting is his (ineffectual) way of attempting to atone. Perhaps LS is intended to be his conscience being as he's behaved in a pretty disrespectful manner yet has got off scot free.

 

Perhaps this process, for him, is your or my equivalent of IC, or coming clean to the person we (say we) want to make happy - for the rest of our life.

[NoIDidn't]

BB, perhaps posting is his (ineffectual) way of attempting to atone. Perhaps LS is intended to be his conscience being as he's behaved in a pretty disrespectful manner yet has got off scot free.

 

Perhaps this process, for him, is your or my equivalent of IC, or coming clean to the person we (say we) want to make happy - for the rest of our life.

 

But who is he trying to atone "to"? His W or OW?

 

He's content to not tell the W (not judging him on this as its his life) and he's content to never speak to the OW again (a good thing as it would likely hurt her more). I see attempts at validation for both acts, but no attempts to atone.

 

(Again, sorry BH. I really hate posting about a poster that is likely reading my posts)

[BB07]

But who is he trying to atone "to"? His W or OW?

 

He's content to not tell the W (not judging him on this as its his life) and he's content to never speak to the OW again (a good thing as it would likely hurt her more). I see attempts at validation for both acts, but no attempts to atone.

 

(Again, sorry BH. I really hate posting about a poster that is likely reading my posts)

 

IF, he is viewing posting here as an act of atonement, it would seem it's more geared toward his fow.

 

Of course none of us know what his intentions are, heck he might not fully understand it himself at this point in time.

[Silly_Girl]

But who is he trying to atone "to"? His W or OW?

 

He's content to not tell the W (not judging him on this as its his life) and he's content to never speak to the OW again (a good thing as it would likely hurt her more). I see attempts at validation for both acts, but no attempts to atone.

 

(Again, sorry BH. I really hate posting about a poster that is likely reading my posts)

 

My point is that it's achieving nothing (in terms of him reaching his goal of happy M) but some people feel they need a punishment if they've wronged. Wondered if this was the OP's way of 'suffering'.

[SidLyon]

...what BHMM is really getting out of his continuing posts. ...

 

Not so sure about the continuing posts BB07. He seems to have quietened down again.

 

I don't want to start another round of off topic speculation but is it another holiday over there?

[jj33]

Sid give him a break. Its a webforum its not like hes obligated to post.

 

When he posts he is bashed for being on the internet rather than being with his family. When he doesnt post that is noted.

 

Those of us who live in front of our computers tend to post more than people who dont.

 

Maybe its a good sign. Maybe he is actually spending more time with his family?

 

Being home and being on the internet could be construed as a continuing form of avoidance or a distraction no matter what you are looking at.

[SidLyon]

He posted YESTERDAY for crying out loud!!:rolleyes:

 

Now back to the lastest topic of discussion, I think he feels that answering OW questions, even the really hard ones, is in a way atoning for hurting his OW. He can not answer questions to her directly as they are in NC, but he knows that many of the OW here are suffering through the same kind of pain. So by answering their questions he is in effect trying to smooth over some of the pain of an OW, ANY OW. Kind of like fixing her broken heart by at least being totally honest with her, only, doing it by proxy.

 

He is grieving the end of his relationship with his OW and he is not yet ready to "make amends" to his wife. When he completes the grief cycle, and is healed from that, then and only then will he be able to truly try to make amends to his wife. Pushing him to do it now will result in inaction due to inability and will likely set him back in his healing.

 

I don't know why everyone wants to push him to do what he obviously is not ready to do. Sometimes it is best to allow someone to take baby steps forward rather than to force them to run ahead blindly and possibly hit a brick wall. IMO.

 

Umm - where I am it's Friday morning (about 9.30am) and he hasn't posted since Wednesday afternoon. Not that it really warrants you shouting at me about it though.

 

Back on topic - I agree he's mourning the loss of his affair and might feel it's a way of atoning to his own OW, but point out that he invited questions from all-comers not just OW. So far he has been more than ready to answer questions from all posters too and has not tried to confine it to just OW questions.

 

I don't see how you can say (on his behalf) that he is not yet ready to make amends to his wife as he's said on numerous occasions that he is trying, and intends to do just that.

 

As for your suggestion about me pushing him - I haven't pushed him to disclose to his wife but have asked him about what exactly he is doing to achieve his repeatedly stated intention to fix things with his wife and marriage.

[AlexaBlue]

I am with you GEL.

 

The thing that bothers me about this and I mentioned it in my first post to BHMM is that he is so sure of his decision. He has stated over and over again that it is definitely over between himself and OW. Like he is not torn at all. I know he states he loved the OW but don't you think, knowing that he let this person he loves so much go and how he's absolutely devastated her and knowing that he may have walked away from something he may never have again ever in his lifetime (the feelings, the passion, the happiness) that he would be more torn? It bothers me that he isn't.

 

How can he be so so sure that he can even make things so good between himself and his W again - he doesn't even want to touch her! All the pretending in the world isn't going to make it real - pretending may work for a while but eventually reality will come calling.

 

The other thing that bothers me is that I have always felt that 'staying for the kids' is an excuse - it allows MM to never have to admit that they really do still love their W and stepped out on her for no real apparent reason. I am sure MM loves his kids and wants the best for them but they are not the only reason he is staying.

 

I don't think that BHMM has done right by anybody here - not OW, not your W, not your kids and especially not yourself. I think in the future you may be disappointed in yourself for not being honest with everybody involved.

 

And If your feelings for OW are what you say they are, I don't think that you will be able to accomplish what you are trying to do. You will never be able to reconcile in your mind why you are doing what you are doing, while feeling the way you do.

[SidLyon]

I "shouted" because it is out of line for you to keep commenting that he has "gone quiet" when it has been just a day since his last post. You seem to be insinuating that he is somehow wrong in not posting when you think he should be posting.

 

I mentioned it once before you shouted at me. I would be the first to agree that nobody is obliged to post at any particular time. My only prior post on the topic of his absence, said exactly that. You can't have read my post properly which was more a lighthearted comment to BB07 that given that he has been away for nearly 2 days now he cannot be said to be continually posting.

 

You are right, he excluded no one. However he plainly stated in his first thread that it was his intent to answer OW questions.

 

This is his second thread and he indicated he was willing to respond to everyone and has in fact done so. As far as I can see the only people who seem to want to confine it to OW, are OW.

 

And I am not speaking on his behalf, i am making observations based on what he is saying. he has clearly stated that while he intends to work on his marriage he is now focused of getting over his OW as a first step towards the ultimate goal of making his marriage better.

 

And my observation is that he has stated his ultimate goal is to recover his marriage and have nothing more to do with the OW. It is lacking in foresight to lose sight of the overall aim.

 

And i wasn't speaking of YOU (in particular) pushing him, but was speaking of a YOU (general) as the focus of the threads keeps getting pushed off of his intent and is getting congested with the "What are you doing to make it better?" questions. To which he responds "I am there, I am trying" (I am paraphrasing)

 

He has said his intent is to recover his marriage so it's perfectly fair to discuss how he is doing this both right now and the next steps. You are mistaken to imply that discussion about this is somehow off the topic.

 

It seems counterproductive to me for him to keep being pushed towards fixing his marriage while he is still so obviously grieving his OW.

 

We will have to disagree about this. One of the inconsistencies in recovering a marriage after a love affair is that the WS has to both get over the AP at the same time as rediscovering the relationship with the BS. I think I know far more about this from a practical perspective than many/most OW on this forum.

 

When he finishes the grief process his heart and mind will be free to do the hard work ahead, but until then, it will all still be a lie. Why is that so hard for you (general you) to see?

 

P.S. Syd, not everything everyone (or I) says is directed at you, hun. I simply quoted your post because of the "he has gone quite again".. umm.. stuff. (Yeah, stuff is a word that I can use here that won't get me muted... )

 

My responses in bold above. Sorry I touched a sensitive nerve FA; there really is no need for you to leap to BHMM's defence every time you imagine some slight to him.

Edited September 10, 2010 by SidLyon