Hello

[mourningMM]

First, let me say that I honor and respect the difficulty you face in ending your A. Regardless of how you feel, and how it hurts you and her, I believe that you have your priorities straight.

 

Give yourself time.

 

The other thread you started went down some twisting turning paths, and I didn't have the energy to read through it. However it seemed like there were many who hoped/offered suggestions on marital re-engagement. This is good...but only in due course.

 

You need time to mourn the end of the relationship, and even more to mourn the end of the FUTURE you and your OW imagined together. Or that you imagined for yourself and the OW.

 

During this "down time" your wife will feel your distance much more than she did during your affair. Honestly, in hiding the affair, you probably treated her with more patience and kindness because of two things---two very important things that you need to recognize:

1) you were happy with the OW.

2) you weren't horny.

 

A man who is unhappy with his wife on any level doesn't enjoy sex as much as a man who is happy. I believe this to be a basic truth. Sex and happiness go together.

 

Mourning and sex don't.

 

Be prepared for her to sense the shift from happiness to anger; realize that IT IS NOT HER FAULT. Somewhere along the line you began changing and growing AWAY from her. This was the result of YOUR choices, and possibly some of hers.

 

If she hasn't already figured out something is wrong, you've got options. My suggestion is this...tell one last lie. Tell her you are unhappy at work, and let her know that you have to work through this for a little while. And never have sex with her unless you can do it in a completely loving and giving fashion. Because if there is an undercurrent of anger in your sex the mixed signals will begin to do real damager to HER. She will begin to doubt herself and her instincts. Her self-confidence will crumble and the more she needs you, the more you will begin to push away. It is a vicious cycle. If you are staying in the marriage you need to avoid this at all costs.

 

Wait until you are less emotionally tied to the OW, then find the choices which will bring you closer to your wife. Make those choices for yourself and your children; time will heal the chasm you've built.

 

If she has, you need counseling.

 

Don't be shy, get it.

 

Your kids don't just deserve to NOT have their lives disrupted by a divorce. They deserve to see a loving, caring relationship between their mother and father....because it is THAT relationship which will set the foundation for their own relationships in the future.

 

Your kids deserve to see a good marriage. Because a bad marriage is worse than a good divorce.

[whichwayisup]

The thing that bothers me about this and I mentioned it in my first post to BHMM is that he is so sure of his decision. He has stated over and over again that it is definitely over between himself and OW. Like he is not torn at all. I know he states he loved the OW but don't you think, knowing that he let this person he loves so much go and how he's absolutely devastated her and knowing that he may have walked away from something he may never have again ever in his lifetime (the feelings, the passion, the happiness) that he would be more torn? It bothers me that he isn't.

 

He is hurting, that's obvious to anybody who's been following his thread. Thing that you don't seem to understand is, he's chosen his wife and family over the OW and the affair and the ONLY way to heal from it to not let yourself wallow in pain, and be proactive in healing, and grieving. Would it make YOU feel better if the guy needed meds, couldn't get out of bed, couldn't function? People grieve in different ways.

 

He's CHOSEN his family and with that he knows he HAS to let go of the OW. Grieving her 24/7 and only focussing on her is NOT going to help him. It'll more than likely make him slip and contact her during a weak moment. He's being strong and doing what he can do move past his feelings, not hang onto them.

 

Again, people grieve in different ways, even more so once a decision has been made. It is totally counter productive of him to pine away for his exOW.

 

How can he be so so sure that he can even make things so good between himself and his W again - he doesn't even want to touch her! All the pretending in the world isn't going to make it real - pretending may work for a while but eventually reality will come calling.

 

All we have is here, is his word. He has said numerous times that he wants to try to reconnect with his wife. One step at a time. He knows what needs to be done... (that wink is to you BHMM) and if he is willing to work his ass off, why not? Why can't he find those feelings he once had for his wife, feelings that he buried, and bring them to life? If the desire is there, it'll happen. So far he seems to want this, so try encouraging him, instead of asking WHY he isn't grieving his poor exOW enough.

[whichwayisup]

I don't think that BHMM has done right by anybody here - not OW, not your W, not your kids and especially not yourself. I think in the future you may be disappointed in yourself for not being honest with everybody involved.

 

Actually, oddly enough, the only person he seems to have been most honest to, IS his exOW. He told her he wanted to end the A, and he's ended it. He (actually they BOTH agreed to this, so it isn't just his doing) asked for NC, and they both have respected it.

 

The honesty he needs to focus on now is with his wife, himself and the family unit. The exOW isn't part of the equation anymore, what's done is done, he doesn't owe her anything as they've said goodbye and are in NC mode.

[SidLyon]

First, let me say that I honor and respect the difficulty you face in ending your A. Regardless of how you feel, and how it hurts you and her, I believe that you have your priorities straight.

 

Give yourself time.

 

The other thread you started went down some twisting turning paths, and I didn't have the energy to read through it. However it seemed like there were many who hoped/offered suggestions on marital re-engagement. This is good...but only in due course.

 

You need time to mourn the end of the relationship, and even more to mourn the end of the FUTURE you and your OW imagined together. Or that you imagined for yourself and the OW.

 

During this "down time" your wife will feel your distance much more than she did during your affair. Honestly, in hiding the affair, you probably treated her with more patience and kindness because of two things---two very important things that you need to recognize:

1) you were happy with the OW.

2) you weren't horny.

 

A man who is unhappy with his wife on any level doesn't enjoy sex as much as a man who is happy. I believe this to be a basic truth. Sex and happiness go together.

 

Mourning and sex don't.

 

Be prepared for her to sense the shift from happiness to anger; realize that IT IS NOT HER FAULT. Somewhere along the line you began changing and growing AWAY from her. This was the result of YOUR choices, and possibly some of hers.

 

If she hasn't already figured out something is wrong, you've got options. My suggestion is this...tell one last lie. Tell her you are unhappy at work, and let her know that you have to work through this for a little while. And never have sex with her unless you can do it in a completely loving and giving fashion. Because if there is an undercurrent of anger in your sex the mixed signals will begin to do real damager to HER. She will begin to doubt herself and her instincts. Her self-confidence will crumble and the more she needs you, the more you will begin to push away. It is a vicious cycle. If you are staying in the marriage you need to avoid this at all costs.

 

Wait until you are less emotionally tied to the OW, then find the choices which will bring you closer to your wife. Make those choices for yourself and your children; time will heal the chasm you've built.

 

If she has, you need counseling.

 

Don't be shy, get it.

 

Your kids don't just deserve to NOT have their lives disrupted by a divorce. They deserve to see a loving, caring relationship between their mother and father....because it is THAT relationship which will set the foundation for their own relationships in the future.

 

Your kids deserve to see a good marriage. Because a bad marriage is worse than a good divorce.

 

I'm starting to realise that there may be a basic misunderstanding by many OW about how to go about recovering/rebuilding a marriage after a MM has had a love affair with an OW.

 

First of all I want to acknowledge the real love that existed and that it does take time for the MM to heal from this and get over the hurt he feels at ending the affair.

 

I'm sure that those many OW advising BHMM to first get over his OW and then reconnect with his W are sincere. However with respect I am fairly sure that most of them have little or no practical experience of successfully recovering a marriage after their partner has had an affair, so their advice while genuinely given must be viewed thorough the lens of being an OW.

 

The WH has an enormous job ahead of them because this healing usually needs to happen at the same time as the WH is trying to rebuild his marriage and find again the love, affection and intimacy with his BW. This is more evident if there has been a d-day because the BW will be in so much pain that the WH, if he really wants his marriage, will not have time to wallow in his pain at ending the affair.

 

BHMM is not quite in that position as he has decided not to tell his wife of the affair, but it doesn't change the fact that he has a big effort ahead of him (as he's acknowledged I think). It's my belief that if he focuses on getting over the OW and neglects the reconnection effort with his wife then he significantly reduces his chances of achieving what he has said he wants - a good marriage.

[SidLyon]

Syd,

 

You said.... I mentioned it once before you shouted at me. I would be the first to agree that nobody is obliged to post at any particular time. My only prior post on the topic of his absence, said exactly that. You can't have read my post properly which was more a lighthearted comment to BB07 that given that he has been away for nearly 2 days now he cannot be said to be continually posting.

 

I disagree. You brought it up in the other thread and questioned his authenticity because of his lack of posting when you thought he should be posting. in fact i recall you said something of the nature of "he abandoned his thread". (i am too lazy to go look it up...)

 

You said...This is his second thread and he indicated he was willing to respond to everyone and has in fact done so. As far as I can see the only people who seem to want to confine it to OW, are OW.

 

You are correct. You are the one who keeps bringing up the fact that you think that some of us don't think anyone other than OW should be posting, or have a right to post. I have never said anything of the sort, but simply responded to your assertions to the contrary by stating that his original intent on his first thread was to speak to OW. I don't know why this is a sticking point for you, or why it bothers you so much.

 

You said...And my observation is that he has stated his ultimate goal is to recover his marriage and have nothing more to do with the OW. It is lacking in foresight to lose sight of the overall aim.

 

And I support him in the overall aim. My point is simply that in order to have NOTHING more to do with OW he has to properly grieve her. Otherwise she is still in his heart and his head, and it will not allow him to reach his ultimate goal if he is holding on to even the memories of her. Each thought of her and how it could be further divides him from his ultimate goal.

 

You said.. He has said his intent is to recover his marriage so it's perfectly fair to discuss how he is doing this both right now and the next steps. You are mistaken to imply that discussion about this is somehow off the topic.

 

 

That was not the intent of his first thread. It was pulled off topic to become about that, but that was not his intent in his OP on that thread. There is no way to spin it to claim it was.

 

You said...We will have to disagree about this. One of the inconsistencies in recovering a marriage after a love affair is that the WS has to both get over the AP at the same time as rediscovering the relationship with the BS. I think I know far more about this from a practical perspective than many/most OW on this forum.

 

You do not hold the world record for being BW. I am quite certain that I held that title far longer than you, so how dare you say that you have more practical experience than anyone else. That is rather presumptuous

of you. (And wrong.)

 

You said.. My responses in bold above. Sorry I touched a sensitive nerve FA; there really is no need for you to leap to BHMM's defence every time you imagine some slight to him.

 

I do not "leap to his defense" any more than i would leap to yours if I thought someone was saying things in direct contradiction to the facts you have laid out for us on the forum. You have touched no nerve with me, other than the fact that i can not abide anyone's words being twisted to suit someone's own agenda, especially when that person is not there to defend themself. But, good try.. no gold star this time.

 

My response to the points you raise above:

 

1. No it wasn't me that said whatever you think I said about abandoning his thread although I did question his authenticity very early on.

 

2. I think we both agree that the current situation is that he is happy for anyone to respond be they OW, BW or whatever and he has shown a willingness to discuss rebuilding with his wife.

 

3. See my most recent post about the necessity to recover a marriage at the same time as grieving the loss of an AP and sometimes while comforting a very hurt BW.

 

4. I didn't suggest I have more experience in being a BW. I said I have practical experience in successfully recovering a marriage after infidelity. I don't recall you ever saying that you have done so yourself but if you have, well done. There are others who have too - so I would never be so presumptuous as to suggest I hold a world record.

[whichwayisup]

If she hasn't already figured out something is wrong, you've got options. My suggestion is this...tell one last lie. Tell her you are unhappy at work, and let her know that you have to work through this for a little while. And never have sex with her unless you can do it in a completely loving and giving fashion.

 

No, telling one more lie isn't a good idea. If his wife asks what's wrong (and trust me, she KNOWS something is "off", her gut feels it. She once even asked him if he was cheating on her and he denied it) he needs to come clean. He owes her the truth. Why lie? Again? Then next time there'll be 'one more little lie' to cover this other lie and so on.

 

If this guy has a chance in fixing his marriage, fixing himself, he has to stop the lying, omitting truths and deceiving.

[Silly_Girl]

WWIU, your post surprised me. BHMM is no longer torn. The daft fella spent 3 (what I would assume were very hard) years being torn. He has now retracted from the foot in each camp scenario and put both his feet in the M camp - to what extent is debatable but he has done so in principle. That's where the mourning comes in. That's why he's not jumping up and down ecstatic that he's got a second chance with his wife (a privilege not all cheaters are afforded).

 

The WH has an enormous job ahead of them because this healing usually needs to happen at the same time as the WH is trying to rebuild his marriage and find again the love, affection and intimacy with his BW. This is more evident if there has been a d-day because the BW will be in so much pain that the WH, if he really wants his marriage, will not have time to wallow in his pain at ending the affair.

 

BHMM is not quite in that position as he has decided not to tell his wife of the affair, but it doesn't change the fact that he has a big effort ahead of him (as he's acknowledged I think). It's my belief that if he focuses on getting over the OW and neglects the reconnection effort with his wife then he significantly reduces his chances of achieving what he has said he wants - a good marriage.

 

I agree SL. I've said something similar myself. Having made the choice to lie to his wife for the rest of his life, and stay, I think that must be what he focuses on. And not for his wife's sake necessarily. For him, himself. Owl and others have offered some wonderful advice and I think that's where he needs to be focusing. I think some direction, and yes - urgency even, would benefit BHMM enormously.

 

I actually worry that he may still be here a year from now with not much having changed. I think the 'my children and wife are happier I'm home more, so all is good' (paraphrasing) is superficial and short term and I think BHMM may come unstuck if it turns out the task ahead of him is the mammoth one I suspect it is.

[September]

For me, I couldn't go back to my marriage and try and reconcile. Once the feelings had gone for my xH and even previous relationships I had moved on.

 

I have looked at my xH many times and wondered if I should try and work it out but in all honesty I can't! The idea of being intimate with him now really makes me cringe. I also know in my heart that the marriage would never be the same again. I would prefer that he now finds someone that truly wants to love and be with him.

 

If I went back for my childrens sake, it would be a complete farce. Luckily he and I get along much better now than we ever have and our children are incredibly happy.

 

Yes we had a d-day but we dealt with it in a mature way. We sat down and talked and talked. Really, he could have gone berserk about what I did but he didn't and for that I am very lucky and respect him greatly for it.

 

We both really like each other just not as husband and wife.

[mourningMM]

As I offered the advice, I wondered whether one last lie might be a bad thing...so here's my reasoning.

 

Some wives really don't know, they are so trusting and immersed in the details of life that they haven't realized that the connection is lost. If his wife is one of those, why cause unnecessary pain. It is his choice, his pain, his problem...I was just suggesting that he needs to be very self-aware.

 

If she asks what's wrong, answering truthfully would be good. My suggestion was to throw out the "something is going on at the office" only if no question was asked.

 

As far a being only on an OW perspective, I'm not. I'm a BS whose husband had an emotional affair, left and married the OW. After that, I met my MM, and had a brief affair that ended happily (he went back to his wife, I moved on with my life). I know what he went through as we ended. It wasn't easy. After the affair ended he died and I found LS because mourning an affair partner is a lonely thing.

 

I also know that my ex husband NEVER was honest with me or himself about the impact of his relationship with the OW. Because of that, he could justify any behavior....he savaged my self esteem, criticized my every decision, made life completely miserable in the hope that I'd leave HIM, and he could have a clear conscience.

 

My children heard his yelling at me, and my crying for two years...They saw me tell him how much I loved him, and him answer that with a slap. He was very angry at me for not being her.

 

BELIEVE ME...what I wrote was for the benefit of the wife and children...because a self-delusional betraying spouse is as dangerous as a loaded gun. Especially if the wife still loves him.

 

I'd never have accepted the advances of that MM if I hadn't been so low after the divorce. I wouldn't be feeling as selfish as I do now, if I hadn't tried to commit suicide because in my world divorce wasn't an option...

 

There are times in a person's life that being selfish is a survival skill...but right now BSMM doesn't appear to be facing those issues.

 

BSMM, you have good enough judgement to know that the children deserve better...I suggest that you go slow, and become self aware so that you don't inflict additional damage. Honestly, you might want to consider Independent Counseling to work through the issues. Sometimes, if you have a good counselor, it works.

 

Best of luck to you!

[diormidnightpoison]

First, let me say that I honor and respect the difficulty you face in ending your A. Regardless of how you feel, and how it hurts you and her, I believe that you have your priorities straight.

 

Give yourself time.

 

The other thread you started went down some twisting turning paths, and I didn't have the energy to read through it. However it seemed like there were many who hoped/offered suggestions on marital re-engagement. This is good...but only in due course.

 

You need time to mourn the end of the relationship, and even more to mourn the end of the FUTURE you and your OW imagined together. Or that you imagined for yourself and the OW.

 

During this "down time" your wife will feel your distance much more than she did during your affair. Honestly, in hiding the affair, you probably treated her with more patience and kindness because of two things---two very important things that you need to recognize:

1) you were happy with the OW.

2) you weren't horny.

 

A man who is unhappy with his wife on any level doesn't enjoy sex as much as a man who is happy. I believe this to be a basic truth. Sex and happiness go together.

 

Mourning and sex don't.

 

Be prepared for her to sense the shift from happiness to anger; realize that IT IS NOT HER FAULT. Somewhere along the line you began changing and growing AWAY from her. This was the result of YOUR choices, and possibly some of hers.

 

If she hasn't already figured out something is wrong, you've got options. My suggestion is this...tell one last lie. Tell her you are unhappy at work, and let her know that you have to work through this for a little while. And never have sex with her unless you can do it in a completely loving and giving fashion. Because if there is an undercurrent of anger in your sex the mixed signals will begin to do real damager to HER. She will begin to doubt herself and her instincts. Her self-confidence will crumble and the more she needs you, the more you will begin to push away. It is a vicious cycle. If you are staying in the marriage you need to avoid this at all costs.

 

Wait until you are less emotionally tied to the OW, then find the choices which will bring you closer to your wife. Make those choices for yourself and your children; time will heal the chasm you've built.

 

If she has, you need counseling.

 

Don't be shy, get it.

 

Your kids don't just deserve to NOT have their lives disrupted by a divorce. They deserve to see a loving, caring relationship between their mother and father....because it is THAT relationship which will set the foundation for their own relationships in the future.

 

Your kids deserve to see a good marriage. Because a bad marriage is worse than a good divorce.

 

To BHMM:

 

I made the same choices you did and am feeling he same way. I'm there with ya. Please don't let yourself believe you are going through this alone. There are others and we can make things right in our lives together for our families.

[SidLyon]

You are correct, it was not posted by Syd, but by Nancy. (Have you ever seen the movie Sid and Nancy? )

 

Please accept my apology, some posters having more than one identity often leads me to get them confused. My mistake.

 

Thank you for the apology.

[BHMM]

Hey everyone,

 

Sorry for my absence; been a busy week with work and I had a couple of bad days so I didn't feel like logging in. I'll try to catch up on the thread tonight/over the weekend. Thanks for keeping it going. Hope everyone's having a good Friday night...

[2sunny]

Hey everyone,

 

Sorry for my absence; been a busy week with work and I had a couple of bad days so I didn't feel like logging in. I'll try to catch up on the thread tonight/over the weekend. Thanks for keeping it going. Hope everyone's having a good Friday night...

 

sorry to hear that - what made it so bad?