What did mm/mw tell you about BS?

[blizzard]

Guess I am not the norm here.

While the EA was happening he questioned whether he was in love with her or not. He said some days were still good, some bad. But more bad than good. The relationship was spiraling downhill. He talked about their fights. And how she always threatened divorce. She's a control freak esp with finances. He said she was an alcoholic. He felt responsible for her. She was dependent on him but he couldn't do anything right. She needed anti-depressant meds. And one day he would have enough of it and come to his senses. He only discussed her alcoholism briefly. When I wanted to know more or discuss it in depth with him he would shut down and change the subject.

 

When the PA started, she became a monster. A lousy, neglectful stepmother. Selfish. Disrespectful. More of a drunk. He said he had finally had enough of the drinking. And everything mentioned above just got worse. He did say they shared the same bed still but it didn't mean that they were more intimate. He said he felt that she didn't love him whole-heartedly. He said he was miserable.

 

He also said they spoke of whether their was love left in their relationship or whether the were just trying to keep something that once was...

He said they spoke of divorce. Until the later part of our affair, he said that they were divorcing. That she wanted the cheapest divorce possible. And my favorite..."to still be friends."

 

Like I said, anytime I wanted to delve more into her...he blew it off. Didn't want to talk about it anymore.

 

I don't know what kind of person she is really. My gut tells me she is just a normal Joe oblivious to his game. Maybe a bit naive. I now doubt divorce was in any topic of their conversations. As for the alcoholism, who knows.

[lilbunny]

His W ws rarely mentioned and it always seemed a bit uncomfortable when he did. He said he wasn't an unhappy person and they had never had any problem with sex. He was more inclined to talk about 'his life' and losing things like family days out etc. Other than what she does for a living and a couple of details that came out in conversations about other things, I barely know a thing about her. He never used her name to me once in all the time I have known him. Odd, we were friends for two years before there was any sign of anything deeper.

 

This has got me thinking a bit as it goes, thanks for posting!

[BB07]

Good thread and topic.

 

Wow, I don't know where to start. As you probably don't know since you are new, I thought I was dating a smm, but in fact he was very much married, but anyway......I was told that she had threatened his life, told that she was more interested in his money than him. She didn't really love him, loved him for what he could bring to the marriage, (material things), was told she was possibly mentally unbalanced, was told that she was trying to nail him to the wall concerning financial matters, oh there is more but right now I can't remember it all but there was an incredible amount of lies that he told me about her and he told her about me.

And........I did find out that it was NOT true, since I and the bs had many, many long conversations discovering all the many untruths he told to both of us.

 

Just wanted to add, (even though it doesn't make any difference), that very little negative or otherwise was said about the BS until after they had their D day, (which I didn't know anything about). Their D day was when the big lies started to her, about me, and to me, about her. The purpose of them was to keep her and I from talking, comparing notes, and finding out the big lie, in that he was in fact not separated but very much married throughout much of our time together.

 

My point is......I would guess that a lot of MM don't say that much negative about the BS until after D day. I think timing has a lot to do with it. After all most of us would be really turned off to hear MM speak very badly of the wife in the beginning.

[Silly_Girl]

My point is......I would guess that a lot of MM don't say that much negative about the BS until after D day. I think timing has a lot to do with it. After all most of us would be really turned off to hear MM speak very badly of the wife in the beginning.

 

I've often thought it's easier for a woman to turn to a man (KISA) than the genders being reversed. Maybe if a man portrayed himself as a victim his OW would in turn see him as a victim, which isn't incredibly sexy. I'm just generalising here of course.

[greengoddess]

I personally would not believe his wife is a drugie/alcoholic. If this was the case he would not want the kids with her. He would not spend hours messing with an ow putting his children in danger from his monster of a wife.

 

I find it fascinating that a few ow that were bs came from abused marriages. Maybe that's where the lack of respect for marriage comes from and the naive belief that the wife is a monster. They were married to monsters thus it's probably true the wife is a monster. Oh but notice it is the cheater who was the real monster not you the bw now ow. Think about that next time you look at your mm.

 

It's so sad to go from one abusive relationship to another. You went from an abusive marriage to an ow which I feel is a very painful form of abuse. Sad. I wonder if therapy would help.

[Confused4Now]

Yes, it can be that bad and a person still stay. I speak from experience there. My 'ex' h and I were together for 10 years. He started abusing me 3 months in. I stayed. He was doing meth, unemployed for 90% of our relationship. He ignored our children, he brought his other woman into our home and hid the fact that her two children were his for 4 years while he let her pretend to have boyfriends and be my best friend. I suspected for a long time, yet I stayed. The final straw was the day I was told all the facts (undeniable facts) from a mutual friend, and I confronted OW. She got hysterical, attacked me, told me to just f'in leave and let her have what was rightfully hers once and for all. He woke up and came out to find us fighting. He pulled us apart and when I called her a whore he attacked me' too. It was my moment of pure clarity. I waited and calmed down. He took her in the other room to check on her and find out what it was all about, and I called the cops for the first time after 10 years. I moved out that day and said they were soulmates...without a doubt meant for eachother. A year later they are still together....despite the felony assault charges she has filed on him herself. But yes...we stay...until we hit rock bottom...but that moment...that one moment can make all the difference in the world.

Well i kinda knew this was going to be your response. Abuse has been discussed in my early discussions when I first came to LS. I will never understand why people stay till they have that one defining moment. The point where they hit rock bottom. It is so clear but yet they stay...why?

 

I guess its what she's use too....kinda like me. Mine wasn't as bad as my xMW but it was emotional and verbal abuse.

 

Of course I never hear what he's doing now...nor do I care. I'm certain she would look stoopid letting everyone know what he's doing and she's still staying. Not to bright actually...

[Confused4Now]

I managed to do the same and there was no one else involved in my life at the time. I just wonder what it would be like if, whilst in the middle of the abuse and craziness, I had met someone who would give me so much love and support - would I have found it easier to end the M sooner? I just don't know as I haven't been in this situation, but I know of some people who stay for the abuse to continue, even though they have someone else willing to make them happy.

In my situation I thought I would have provided that soft landing...this was discussed so many times its not even funny. Bottom line when they are ready they are ready. 5 years later she's still there.

[Grace2010]

I have the unique situation of knowing both, and hearing about the other from both, and....um...she's seriously crazy. I've witnessed her verbal and emotional abuse firsthand, and now that their M is ending am hearing 'her' version of things which is so very twisted and convoluted from the truth.

 

Which is almost harder, I think, because it KILLS me to see how she twists and manipulates the truth to get people to think the worst of him and paint herself as the victim.

 

But because no one knows about me and our relationship, I can't speak up.

 

And THANK GOODNESS no one knows...because as vocal as she is about what she does know? She'd go to town if she had the whole story and we'd be looking at a serious case of slander.

[thomasb]

Grace, if you are speaking of her telling everybody that you are having an affair with her DH, that is not slander if it is the truth. There wouldn't be thing one you could do about it.

When I was seeing OW, I told her anything I thought she wanted to hear. Makes me ill even thinking of some of the things said then. Over embellished lies.

[2sure]

MY ex H told women he was a divorced single father of 2 boys.

We were married , he has no children, I have a daughter.

I mean, didnt anyone ask him :

Where are your kids?

Why do you live in a hotel?

Why cant I call you?

And after 10 years shouldnt that ring mark be gone??

[BB07]

MY ex H told women he was a divorced single father of 2 boys.

We were married , he has no children, I have a daughter.

I mean, didnt anyone ask him :

Where are your kids?

Why do you live in a hotel?

Why cant I call you?

And after 10 years shouldnt that ring mark be gone??

 

OMG.......I laughed so hard when I read that last one, I spit my drink. :laugh:

[2sure]

I know! Forreal.

[Minnie09]

My xH told AP:

 

 

Don't enjoy sex with W, she wants it more than me

Staying w/W only for the child

W loves me, but I don't love her

W is a good person and I care deeply for her

W takes very good care of me

I give W such a good life

I know where I would WANT to be, but I can't

Actually I don't like her very much

She's so up my a**

 

Nice, huh? BTW most of the above are lies.

[torranceshipman]

I know the role I played for my MM was a shoulder to cry on and a sounding board. Many of our conversations centered around how horrible the M is and what a terrible person she is. I heard everything about her from being a druggie/alcoholic, cheater, pathological liar, abusive verbally and even occasionally physical, compulsive spender, and pretty much all around psycho.

 

If everything is true, they haven't shared a bed for 4 years or had intercourse for 6 months. I wonder how much is true and how much is embellished to somehow rectify his actions. Did you run into similar stories about the BS? Did you later find out they were full of crap? I have no desire to go to the W so I may never know, but I have to admit I'm curious if she's as awful as he makes her out to be. I'd feel horrible to later find out she was quite a lovely person just trying to make her marriage work like so many of us would be doing if the table was turned.

 

I only wonder I think because I used to be a BW. The things my H told his OW about me were so far from the truth. I supposedly emotionally closed him out. I stopped desiring him. He told her we hadn't had intercourse my entire pregnancy or the four months following my son's birth (despite the fact that we were up until the day he was born). I have a feeling that had he painted an honest picture of our relationship her feelings about him would have been entirely different.

 

It is a sad cliche that MM's seem to demonize the BS to the OW, to justify the A, keep her interested, whatever. As you've already experienced that, I think you need to really trust your instincts - your MM sounds like a total cliche. Mind you, the confusing thing is that the MM might also say noble things about the BS if that is what the OW's personality suits (but I am sure the 'we live like room mates' is wheeled out to everyone). I think you need to walk away, or see if there is some way of finding out what the truth is for your own peace of mind.

Edited September 8, 2010 by torranceshipman

[BB07]

(but I am sure the 'we live like room mates' is wheeled out to everyone).

 

No not to everyone, I NEVER heard one word from him about their sex life, he didn't tell, nor did I ask. The information that I have now about THAT came straight from the BS. Shocking uh!

 

IMO, too many generalizations are made. Sure sometimes they fit, but when someone says it's ALWAYS this way or that, that is what gets under the OW's skin. And I'm not saying that sometimes that the shoe doesn't fit......sometimes situations are taken right out of the handbook, but not always.

 

I know it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I'm not.

[TinaniT]

IMO, too many generalizations are made. Sure sometimes they fit, but when someone says it's ALWAYS this way or that, that is what gets under the OW's skin. And I'm not saying that sometimes that the shoe doesn't fit......sometimes situations are taken right out of the handbook, but not always. \

 

Yeah.

 

Especially when I see it now knowing that my love was honest with me with everything and that I was told it was definitely all lies.

[Silly_Girl]

No not to everyone, I NEVER heard one word from him about their sex life, he didn't tell, nor did I ask. The information that I have now about THAT came straight from the BS. Shocking uh!

 

IMO, too many generalizations are made. Sure sometimes they fit, but when someone says it's ALWAYS this way or that, that is what gets under the OW's skin. And I'm not saying that sometimes that the shoe doesn't fit......sometimes situations are taken right out of the handbook, but not always.

 

I know it sounds like I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, but I'm not.

 

I agree with this. I admit I joined LS with no 'previous' as such. (Except a scum-sucking, cheating, gas-lighting eejit of an ex) No OW experience. I assumed ALL situations were different, I thought there were many more variables. I thought my MM's actions and words were unique to him/us. "It's different"; "No, he's not lying to me", "Yes, he REALLY did mean to leave her". etc etc.

 

After a little while I think I found it easier to accept the generalisations, I have seen many posters come and go with broadly the similar story, and I've only been here a short time. And it's true that one poster's 6 para intro is very similar to that of the next, and the next.

 

But what gets forgotten (by some, not all) is that what's going on outside of that initial basic info-share is equally, if not MORE important with regards fully understanding what's going on and what may suit a given situation. Sometimes the predictable script is useful but it's just possible - hear me out here, it's radical - that when the poster bucks against the standard advice/accusations/assumptions and says they know their situation better, there's just a tiny chance they may be right.

 

Bottom line for me is, 90% of the posts I see are coming from a good place and intended to be helpful. Some of the tough love I had has left me unnerved, but when I see it given to others now I get true value from it and can really appreciate it.

[lilbunny]

It is a sad cliche that MM's seem to demonize the BS to the OW, to justify the A, keep her interested, whatever. As you've already experienced that, I think you need to really trust your instincts - your MM sounds like a total cliche. Mind you, the confusing thing is that the MM might also say noble things about the BS if that is what the OW's personality suits (but I am sure the 'we live like room mates' is wheeled out to everyone). I think you need to walk away, or see if there is some way of finding out what the truth is for your own peace of mind.

 

No, never.

 

I find myself feeling like a bit of an odd one out. I hear from people who were told nothing about the M because it was hidden (i.e. the OW/OM didn't know they were involved with someone M), people who talk about the M negatively, people who talk about the M positively.

 

We never discussed it at all. I feel like he said next to nothing. What he said I find believable, but there was very little. Even when we were just friends he talked about all sorts of personal things, but not his M. I always knew he had a W, that was it.

 

Any thoughts?

[NoIDidn't]

I actually took comfort temporarily to hear my guy speak poorly of his GF when I was his OW. It took awhile to dawn on me that you could change the womens' roles and the jerk would be saying the same things.

 

I don't think he did it to justify what he was doing. I think he did it just to get more sympathy and sex from me. He told me she was a prude, and seemed to expect the strangest things sexually from me (I refused, mind you). He complained about the material things she requested from him in an seeming attempt to keep me from asking for anything. Didn't work either.

 

I think he, and others, do it to groom the OW into the partner they want that gives them what they want with the least friction. Sometimes they even leave for this "new" woman.

[Mimolicious]

He says that she is a nice person. That she is intelligent. That she has been a great mother to his children and a good wife. He says that he respects her as a person. He says that she has done nothing to deserve being hurt. He says that he loves her.

 

He says that they have grown apart. He says that they have spent most of their marriage living separately. (He was in the military for 22 yrs, often deployed to other states/countries where she did not follow).

 

He says that he loves me. He says that he is in love with me.

 

 

Not for nothing... for all the bashing (including myself at times) that we have all done to "Mr. Comando" (lol!) He at least has grace and respect (to the highest level that he can afford) in his situation. I can actually see this gentleman just being 'caught up' in an unfortunate situation. We all see how many MP drag their S in the mudd for the sake of their own justification. Your guy FA is not the typical a$$wipe!

 

I hope one day it all works out for you FA.

[Mimolicious]

I have the unique situation of knowing both, and hearing about the other from both, and....um...she's seriously crazy. I've witnessed her verbal and emotional abuse firsthand, and now that their M is ending am hearing 'her' version of things which is so very twisted and convoluted from the truth.

 

Which is almost harder, I think, because it KILLS me to see how she twists and manipulates the truth to get people to think the worst of him and paint herself as the victim.

 

But because no one knows about me and our relationship, I can't speak up.

 

And THANK GOODNESS no one knows...because as vocal as she is about what she does know? She'd go to town if she had the whole story and we'd be looking at a serious case of slander.

 

 

And let me guess, you're his saving 'grace'? ha! Real classy of you to have this woman trust you with her intimate deets and yet you are involved with her H. See... people like this give OW/OM a bad name.

 

I don't get it... why would the BS even be a topic of interest? If I had to listen to all of that, I would def ask for Insurance card and co-pay after. GTFOH! that's what therapist and friends are for. Sorry, why would anyone be interested in listening to a MM/MW bash or dish out their S's 411??!!!

I wouldn't entertain it, but that's me. It was bad enough I had to hear my xH talking ish about his OW. Not interested.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I know what you're talking about KTD.

 

I was in abusive M for 11 years. When I look back I can't believe what I put up with. And before I got involved with my xH, I could never understand how any woman would stay with this type of man. Until it happened to me.

 

Someone who's never been there won't understand.

 

You managed to become stronger and get yourself out of that destruction. Hope you're in much better place now.

 

I managed to do the same and there was no one else involved in my life at the time. I just wonder what it would be like if, whilst in the middle of the abuse and craziness, I had met someone who would give me so much love and support - would I have found it easier to end the M sooner? I just don't know as I haven't been in this situation, but I know of some people who stay for the abuse to continue, even though they have someone else willing to make them happy.

 

I was one of the most critical people about abusive relationships before I endured one. My sister married her childhood sweetheart and he was awful. I know she felt like she couldn't leave. That they were meant for eachother and how much they had overcome and how everybody had told them they wouldn't succeed, so, somehow I think she had romanticized all of this and just negated the fact he was an absolute prick and horrible father. I always said that would never be me, that I would be happier alone...but the way that man makes you feel so degraded and that you will never find anything better, you start to believe it and accept it. Like you said, I can talk about it until I'm blue in the face, but I can make an outsider understand.

 

Like you, I left completely alone. I never cheated on my exH, and didn't think I could sink to his level. I can say that I often fantasized about some handsome sweet and loving man coming and sweeping me off of my feet and insisting he could save me from it all, and then doing so. But, heck, you have to be allowed to leave the house and have a life to ever meet someone. My exH had the control, and that wasn't happening.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I think there is a big difference between a marriage where there is abuse and a "bad" marriage. Whole different set of circumstances regarding leaving.

 

I didn't mean for them to come off as having anything to do with eachother. Someone just asked if things were really that bad, who would possibly stay through it? I think for the most part people would indeed put up with for the sake of just doing what is familiar and expected of them.

 

It's really no different than a man going to college for one dream profession, only to take a desk job doing something he hates "just till he get's situated" and then life happens, wife, kids, a house, etc, and before he realizes it he is collecting a 401K from a job he never wanted in the first place.

[jj33]

I appreciate that. Im just saying that its notoriously difficult for people to leave abusive marriages due to the various issues involved and that is understandable to me. Its also understandable why someone in an abusive marriage could be vulnerable to an A.

 

On the other hand staying in a "bad" marriage where you complain all the time about it when there is no abuse, doesnt wash with me. Its the oldest song in the book (my W doesnt understand me).

 

Just my opinion. I think its a stale old line. Maybe true but man up and do something about it. Own your actions. None of this poor me, my marriage is so bad...

[KarmasTestDummy]

His W ws rarely mentioned and it always seemed a bit uncomfortable when he did. He said he wasn't an unhappy person and they had never had any problem with sex. He was more inclined to talk about 'his life' and losing things like family days out etc. Other than what she does for a living and a couple of details that came out in conversations about other things, I barely know a thing about her. He never used her name to me once in all the time I have known him. Odd, we were friends for two years before there was any sign of anything deeper.

 

This has got me thinking a bit as it goes, thanks for posting!

 

This is just me personally, but I don't think I could share an emotional and intimate connection with a man who couldn't tell me about his life and the things that had drove him to choose someone else. He shared so much with me, even pictures of her "secret stash" and a video of her one time he took while she was drunk and completely oblivious. She was holding a blender pitcher and drinking straight from it while calling him names and telling him he was a POS. I'm pretty sure I know in my heart he wasn't lieing about many if not any of the things he told me about her. Though I sure as heck can see how a BS would be furious to think of her H sharing those most intimate and personal details about her, and even sending pics and videos of her and her kids to the OW.