Being judgmental.

[bohogirl]

Furthermore, many BS stay with their spouse because they want their kids to be raised by both parents. The extra curricular activities of the spouse does not mean that they don't co-parent very well or there is tension in the household.

 

Many?? Many? Where is ONE? I mean, sure. Ive heard of and known spouses to turn a blind eye for the sake of apprearances or family. But they are not co-parenting and there IS tension. If a guy says his wife knows and is ok with it...unless it is an open marriage...she may suspect, but she doesnt know.

 

Well the world is a big place you cannot expect to know everyone.

[bentnotbroken]

You assume that a BS coming to LS would be WHINING about her situation rather than looking for the support necessary to raise her kids. Not every couple can afford to divorce.

 

Furthermore, many BS stay with their spouse because they want their kids to be raised by both parents. The extra curricular activities of the spouse does not mean that they don't co-parent very well or there is tension in the household.

 

Would you not have any compassion for this woman?

 

 

The statistics don't support this statement. Divorce rates are very high and usually initiated by women. A percentage of those women are BS, some are WS and some are just looking to move on for whatever reasons. I am sure there are BS who stay. Some stay for love. They simply love their spouse. Some stay for children, some for finances. But these same reasons are also why WS say they stay.

 

A large number of divorces don't cost an arm and a leg. Many couples do the paper work themselves and divide assets, bills and arrange visitation and custody. I live in a relatively poor area of the US and people without great jobs and assets divorce everyday. The county I live in has the highest divorce rate in the state. So when one wants out badly enough, they find the options to leave.

[In_Repair]

I just wanted to post a one line response... completely non-judgmental, of course.

[TinaniT]

Posting from the vantage of what you have observed or what someone you trusted told you is not something I find as judgmental as reading "affair" and going off with the same completely scripted insults towards the poster and/or someone they care about, giving hypotheticals with no regards to the details they posted in their thread, but only the group with which you aligned yourself. A judgment may be made in both situations (as we all do in all situations); The judgment may be right or wrong in both cases; But one at least has some foundation in the external situation and not in an internal dilemma.

[greengoddess]

But if the BS who continually goes back over and over to a cheater, regardless of the reason, is on a message board WHINING about the cheating, then yes. It IS the BS's fault. That's not being judgmental. That's merely an observation, and an astute one at that.

 

exactly!

[pureinheart]

Sigh that term is so tiresome. So many times you read that people who find affairs morally wrong are just bitter judgmental people but is that not what the ow is doing?

 

The ow makes judgments of the bs DAILY. They justify their relationship with the mm through their own judgments of a woman they do not even know.

 

As lizzie said in another thread.

 

 

These are all judgments she has made about the bs. You without knowing the bs form an opinion of her and judge her not to be worthy of her husband. You judge her to be a bad mom, a bad housekeeper, fat, lazy and even a lousy lover.

 

I am so tired of hearing that people are being judgmental when they find affairs to be offensive. The pw is doing much more judging daily than the bs. It is so hypocritical.

 

Concerning Lizzy, I think she makes a fair assessment of situations she is very closely related to...she neither defends, nor degrades, she calls it as she sees it based on what I have read.

[donnamaybe]

Concerning Lizzy, I think she makes a fair assessment of situations she is very closely related to...she neither defends, nor degrades, she calls it as she sees it based on what I have read.

So, in other words, you agree with her assessment that EVERY SINGLE MALE ON THE PLANET WILL CHEAT?

 

That's a sad thing - thinking any man you might ever form a R with will betray you.

[bohogirl]

The statistics don't support this statement. Divorce rates are very high and usually initiated by women. A percentage of those women are BS, some are WS and some are just looking to move on for whatever reasons. I am sure there are BS who stay. Some stay for love. They simply love their spouse. Some stay for children, some for finances. But these same reasons are also why WS say they stay.

 

A large number of divorces don't cost an arm and a leg. Many couples do the paper work themselves and divide assets, bills and arrange visitation and custody. I live in a relatively poor area of the US and people without great jobs and assets divorce everyday. The county I live in has the highest divorce rate in the state. So when one wants out badly enough, they find the options to leave.

 

 

I don't put much faith in statistics which can be skewed to support whatever side of the debate you are on.

 

I do put faith in personal knowledge and anecdotal evidence (such as on SI).

 

When you have a comfortable lifestyle very few people would give it up unless seriously injured beyond repair.

 

e.g. If ExMM sold his family home he will not be able to afford two decent properties in London. MM and the SAHM are faced with downsizing dramatically. One breadwinner paying for two homes, child/wife support (more than he would pay if still living as one unit), ...all adds up. No more foreign holidays, new cars. MM is just making ends meet and faced with the possibility of being pensioned off/ made redundant. This is no way to live for some.

 

It is not just the MM that does not want to dismantle their life the BS does not want this either.

[greengoddess]

I don't put much faith in statistics which can be skewed to support whatever side of the debate you are on.

 

I do put faith in personal knowledge and anecdotal evidence (such as on SI).

 

When you have a comfortable lifestyle very few people would give it up unless seriously injured beyond repair.

 

e.g. If ExMM sold his family home he will not be able to afford two decent properties in London. MM and the SAHM are faced with downsizing dramatically. One breadwinner paying for two homes, child/wife support (more than he would pay if still living as one unit), ...all adds up. No more foreign holidays, new cars. MM is just making ends meet and faced with the possibility of being pensioned off/ made redundant. This is no way to live for some.

 

It is not just the MM that does not want to dismantle their life the BS does not want this either.

 

If I was so totally in love with someone I would never put a foreign holiday or a new car ahead of them.

[TinaniT]

It is not just the MM that does not want to dismantle their life the BS does not want this either.

 

My situation is unique in my man wanted to leave, his ex-wife was in an affair already and did not.. and her emotional situation.. BUT I do know her first reaction to being asked about a divorce is wanting to stay married, turn a blind eye to anything he wanted to do as long as it wasn't public for those she knew to see, and keep the finances and status quo together. I imagine that is not isolated, knowing the premium some put on that.

[Owl]

Probably... but I couldn't do that to MY friends.. and they're not my type.. (but that's not the reason)

 

OK...this leaves me a little confused as well.

 

You believe that you "make marriages better".

 

You see what you do with MM as a positive thing for their BS's.

 

Then what is it that you "couldn't do" to your friends???

 

Either it hurts the BS, or it doesn't.

 

If you "couldn't do that to MY friends"...you're acknowledging that what you're doing is in some fashion wrong/hurtful to the BS.

 

But it's ok to do to someone else, as long as you aren't friends with them personally???

 

Or is it ok in some fashion to "deny" your friends the "help" you so willingly to provide to so many others?

 

There's a contradiction here, my friend.

[donnamaybe]

There's a contradiction here, my friend.

There are ALWAYS contradictions. Such as: "All men will eventually cheat." "Oh, really? That means your daughter's and friends' husbands will cheat on them as well?"

 

Silence.

[torranceshipman]

IMHO in most cases the only thing the OW/OM know about the BS is what the MM/MW TELLS them. The OW/OM don't live with the BS.

 

And lets call a spade a spade here. Since an affair is a dishonest thing to do in the first place, I suspect the cheating MM/MW is attempting to defend what is really indefensible by demonizing their BS to the OW/OM.

 

I agree with this. It's difficult to see people in the throes of an A where their posts just show that the MM is telling them stuff that is such a cliche, and it is frustrating that they can't see that, and just keep on giving the MM chance after chance and believing anything/taking bad treatment. I guess people need to go through it themselves and see it for themselves, but it isn't nice to see anyone go through that, and willingly stay in that type of situation.

 

I guess also it is hard for a lot of OW to have posters point out this type of thing, as it is saying hey, the guy you love is a jackass and treating you like crap, and no-one wants to hear that - of course the OW is going to jump to his defense - it is human nature. I guess that in a few weeks or months or years even, a lot of OW will look back and realize that a lot of hard words given on here were meant for the right reasons, and that a lot of posters were right to really criticize and call out BS where their MM was concerned.

[jennie-jennie]

Then you ARE smarter than the average bear.

 

Would that others could be the same. I mean, who would seriously believe anything a guy had to say after being strung along in a 5 year A?

 

Donna, why are you always bringing up "a 5 year A"? This is starting to feel personal. Would you please refrain from bringing up a specific number.

[bohogirl]

If I was so totally in love with someone I would never put a foreign holiday or a new car ahead of them.

 

If you quoted the whole post i might take your point.

[bohogirl]

My situation is unique in my man wanted to leave, his ex-wife was in an affair already and did not.. and her emotional situation.. BUT I do know her first reaction to being asked about a divorce is wanting to stay married, turn a blind eye to anything he wanted to do as long as it wasn't public for those she knew to see, and keep the finances and status quo together. I imagine that is not isolated, knowing the premium some put on that.

 

I believe that marriage represents security whether you are a BS or WS.

[2sure]

A spouse that has an affair and undermines the marriage...then denies it...is capable of blowing the college fund, going for milk in Thailand, and many other more permanent and drastic ways of betraying a marriage financially. They cannot be trusted. There is no security with someone like that.

 

Plus, if I'm your BS...good luck sleeping.

[YellowShark]

YS.......I don't mean to pick on you, but because of what happened to you, sometimes your anger clearly does come through and hey I'm not saying you don't have a right to be angry, you damn sure do! It's where you are in life right now and you still have a lot of pain.

 

Hey. I'm only human after all. I was a kind, attentive, sensitive partner who really went above and beyond with my EX's first EA, her alcoholism & AA, her financial woes and our counseling together to try to repair all the damage she caused.

 

I was a good friend to the MM-with-the-pregnant-wife, I helped him with his business, my son cut his lawn, he and the prego wife were part of our social group and we shared many a BBQ, dinner party and camping trip together.

 

So the effect MM and my EX's affair had on me was earth-shattering. Two people that I supported and trusted betrayed me to the core. The fact that they are gaslighting the social group to this very day that "I made it all up" only adds insult to injury. A lot of the social group see me - the faithful partner - as the bad guy right now - (many have dumped me as a friend.)

 

So ya, I have some anger issues to resolve that were not of my making. But I really try to come to Loveshack to seek knowledge rather than to judge people. Yet I really find that some OW/OM here don't take ownership for the lives they are complicit in destroying - namely the BS and the kids. It is truly a life-changing hell that I would not wish on anyone.

 

Are you talking about MY thread with the BS?

 

I'm not sure if it was your thread... but if it was... wasn't it AMAZING how the MM painted his BS to you? That is... until you actually met her and realized she wasn't anything like what he painted to you.

 

It's difficult to see people in the throes of an A where their posts just show that the MM is telling them stuff that is such a cliche, and it is frustrating that they can't see that, and just keep on giving the MM chance after chance and believing anything/taking bad treatment....

 

I feel sorry for the OW/OM who are knowingly in an affair with a MM/MW. They are taking a bite of a poisoned apple, and when you try to tell them that they resist the criticism... as if it is you who are deceiving them while they defend the real™ dishonest party - their cheating MM/MW.

[donnamaybe]

Donna, why are you always bringing up "a 5 year A"? This is starting to feel personal. Would you please refrain from bringing up a specific number.

Not specific to you. I've seen others in A's longer than that and wondered the same things. Next time I'll say "a multiple years A."

[Mimolicious]

You assume that a BS coming to LS would be WHINING about her situation rather than looking for the support necessary to raise her kids. Not every couple can afford to divorce.

 

Furthermore, many BS stay with their spouse because they want their kids to be raised by both parents. The extra curricular activities of the spouse does not mean that they don't co-parent very well or there is tension in the household.

 

Would you not have any compassion for this woman?

 

What about this BS truly loves the person she got married to? There was a romantic R at some point before kids were even born? Not in all situations is all about the "kids". Humans have beating hearts.

 

What's so wrong about a MP wanting to stay with someone that has betrayed them yet, they are in a home with a family and they still have feelings for each other but shyte went wrong? That happens...

 

Yes, there is tons of bashing on all parts. There is tons of bashing BS's here for trying to maintain their M. There is ton of bashing on OW for staying in an A with a MP.

 

What I do see a lot is (and maybe because of the category of forum) the OM/OW expressing themselves in a way like "Who gives a shyte you are M! to MY MP? It's my turn. I have the one that is hot and I have their heart, sex, good times, blah,blah,blah" as if one day you can't be standing in that very same spot. There are also not so fortunate stories.

 

Such a shame that people waste energy, time and precious years hurting themselves and hurting others while they are at it. Too much time being wasted judging and blaming, instead of making a change for the better.

This has been the story since the beginning on times though... we just have the net now to vent.

[2sure]

I stayed with my serial cheating H originally because I loved him, I adored him and I knew that the cheating was a problem he came into the marriage with. I didnt take it personally. The OW were interchangable. I thought we could work through it together. Broke my heart to leave him.

[bohogirl]

What about this BS truly loves the person she got married to? There was a romantic R at some point before kids were even born? Not in all situations is all about the "kids". Humans have beating hearts.

 

What's so wrong about a MP wanting to stay with someone that has betrayed them yet, they are in a home with a family and they still have feelings for each other but shyte went wrong? That happens...

 

Yes, there is tons of bashing on all parts. There is tons of bashing BS's here for trying to maintain their M. There is ton of bashing on OW for staying in an A with a MP.

 

I was posting about a serial cheater not someone who took the wrong path.

[NoIDidn't]

OK...this leaves me a little confused as well.

 

You believe that you "make marriages better".

 

You see what you do with MM as a positive thing for their BS's.

 

Then what is it that you "couldn't do" to your friends???

 

Either it hurts the BS, or it doesn't.

 

If you "couldn't do that to MY friends"...you're acknowledging that what you're doing is in some fashion wrong/hurtful to the BS.

 

But it's ok to do to someone else, as long as you aren't friends with them personally???

 

Or is it ok in some fashion to "deny" your friends the "help" you so willingly to provide to so many others?

 

There's a contradiction here, my friend.

 

I was thinking about this the other day. I find it contradictory, but I feel the same way - oddly enough.

 

I'll explain.

 

A friend's H has been trying to tempt me into some sort of intimacy with him for years. I've always ignored him, for the most part, because I've known her longer than him. But if she weren't my friend, I can honestly say it would be harder to resist.

 

The reasons are many. Most of us find it easier to cause pain to an unknown person. We shop at Wal-Mart knowing that people half a world away are working in sweat shops like slaves. But we won't support a company domestically that's doing the same thing to our neighbors.

 

So my logic goes like this. If I messed around with him and we were found out, I'd lose my social network (we have many mutual friends and we've been friends since high school), I'd lose my reputation as a trustworthy friend (which I am, but some may not think it safe to have their husbands around me after something like this), my children would lose their very good friends since our kids often play together, I'd humiliate my H as he and the guy are friends as well, and lastly, I'd lose my friend AND her H as friends.

 

None of these things is desirable.

 

I don't think a friend sleeping with a friend's spouse is a "double-betrayal" as its so often said around here. I feel its betraying my community because it will ripple through the lives of all that I hold dear.

 

So I would never do it. And I don't think saying so is judgmental of me. I think its a calculated choice, seriously weighing the pros and cons (not just the morals part, as I don't think most people truly have the morals they claim to have anyway - but that's another topic).

[bohogirl]

I stayed with my serial cheating H originally because I loved him, I adored him and I knew that the cheating was a problem he came into the marriage with. I didnt take it personally. The OW were interchangable. I thought we could work through it together. Broke my heart to leave him.

 

Would you have had an issue if he only had one OW for half your marriage?

[2sure]

Back to judgemental...whether to BS,OW/OM or WS. Its a fine and tricky line sometimes beween sounding caring & sure or judgemental. Sometimes the only difference is the approach.

 

One person can take it from one but not another.