Being judgmental.

[jennie-jennie]

Not specific to you. I've seen others in A's longer than that and wondered the same things. Next time I'll say "a multiple years A."

 

Why should you have to refrain from bringing up a specific number? Some posters love to bring up "10 years" about another specific poster.

 

Either way, five years is a NICE ROUND NUMBER to show time wasted. Thankfully, most affairs don't last that long. Usually if they are going to leave, they would have left long before that time period had elapsed.

 

Well, it still looks to me like Donna was referring to me:

 

I mean, how long can one REALLY feel sorry for a person like that? Or like someone in a 5 year affair who calls the MM's infidelity "split self" syndrome or some such psychobabble. It's merely enabling and helps no one. No one but the cheater, that is.

 

It is often done here, describing posters in vague terms but still recognizable, sticking it to them. Makes me

[KarmasTestDummy]

IMHO in most cases the only thing the OW/OM know about the BS is what the MM/MW TELLS them. The OW/OM don't live with the BS.

 

And lets call a spade a spade here. Since an affair is a dishonest thing to do in the first place, I suspect the cheating MM/MW is attempting to defend what is really indefensible by demonizing their BS to the OW/OM.

 

Consider that most everyone the mm knows is probably friends or at least familiar with the bs. He has likely not had anyone he could talk to in order to get things off his chest. it would be easy for him to vent, even embellish things to another woman who for all intent and purposes is a neutral party with no preconceived judgments, prior knowledge, or abilty for it to get back to BS. Clearly we don't remain neutral for long as we sympathize for his predicament, but that playing confidant is what quickly turned our friendship to a R.

[desertIslandCactus]

Off-topic a bit' date=' but I disagree with this. A Christian is called to be "hot or cold" or risk being "spewed out of [His'] mouth". They are called to exercise "right" judgment, but none has the power of condemnation.

 

.

 

 

This is true. Complacency is a sin. We are responsible to share what we know to be true.

[NoIDidn't]

I've already commented on the opening post. There is no hypocrisy in the way described there.

 

Then you and I didn't read the same OP. The OP complained that some OP posters say judgmental things about the BS but cry foul when their judgment of her is applied to them. (Judge not, lest you be judged and by the same measure that you judge others - comes to mind)

 

Saying that A are wrong / MM and OW are bad people and saying that BS are bitchy or unattractive (or something like this, which is what the OP was about) are two completely different things.

 

Then what are you arguing about as this was not what the OP was talking about to begin with. Saying that affairs are wrong is a strongly held conviction by many, not a judgment about a person unless the person reading it is extrapolating the poster to be saying that they themselves are "wrong" as in bad for doing so. Saying that the BS is bitchy and unattractive is judgment about the BS, not a general statement. See where I am coming from with this?

 

Not to mention that the OP based the whole thread on two random posts by other people (one mine) which are supposed to illustrate that "hypocrisy" - well, they don't and the other one (Lizzie's) is not even a typical post on this board, so not representative.

 

Why are other self-proclaimed OWs trying so hard to distance themselves from Lizzie? Interesting. Either way, just because the OP only mentioned those two posts does not limit her observation to them. Its a very common trend in this forum. The negative characterization of the BS (maybe because of things said by the MP, or not) and negative judgments about their character and motives are commonplace by many OP. But when the same judgment is applied to them, they cry foul.

 

That, is the hypocrisy spoken about in the OP.

[jennie-jennie]

I wonder if OW tend to be more compassionate and understanding towards others since they have seen themselves and their lovers do things that are considered morally wrong?

 

And by the same token BS tend to be more judgmental since they have not done things that are considered morally wrong?

 

Sometimes making a mistake here and there makes you more humble.

[jennie-jennie]

Absolutely!

 

There are some pretty amazing posters, who have been betrayed, but offer their perspective to OW with so much kindness and understanding that I can only admire.

 

Yes, there are. Kudos to them. :bunny:

[NoIDidn't]

I wonder if OW tend to be more compassionate and understanding towards others since they have seen themselves and their lovers do things that are considered morally wrong?

 

And by the same token BS tend to be more judgmental since they have not done things that are considered morally wrong?

 

Sometimes making a mistake here and there makes you more humble.

 

I get that you are "wondering", but I totally disagree with this sentiment.

 

No offense Jennie, but I find this sentiment to be pretty ignorant (as in ill- or uninformed) and stereotypical. Its based on a fallacy from jump.

 

Its so common for the OP posters to accuse those that disagree with their choices and lifestyle of being "perfect" or having never "sinned". But that accusation is never based in fact. I don't believe posters to be saying that they have never done anything morally wrong. In fact, many of the people here labeled as "BS" have admitted to having done plenty morally wrong, up to and including having been OPs.

 

And many of the now OPs have admitted being BSs at one time and NOT being judgmental of the OP that affected their marriage.

 

Why wonder positively about the OWs and negatively about BS? That's a pretty biased stance.

[jennie-jennie]

Why wonder positively about the OWs and negatively about BS? That's a pretty biased stance.

 

Because it is the general conclusions I have drawn after being a member on LS for a year.

 

I wasn't biased before I came here. I am now.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I wonder if OW tend to be more compassionate and understanding towards others since they have seen themselves and their lovers do things that are considered morally wrong?

 

And by the same token BS tend to be more judgmental since they have not done things that are considered morally wrong?

 

Sometimes making a mistake here and there makes you more humble.

Are you saying that you are more compassionate towards BS than other BS would be?

[NoIDidn't]

Because it is the general conclusions I have drawn after being a member on LS for a year.

 

I wasn't biased before I came here. I am now.

 

 

I am still not biased. There is a general personality type that is a turn off for me whether they be OP or BS.

 

Being biased makes one prone to being judgmental.

 

Would you say its fair to judge the BS and think the BS doesn't have the right to turn around and judge you?

[jennie-jennie]

There is a general personality type that is a turn off for me whether they be OP or BS.

 

I agree.

.

[jennie-jennie]

It's interesting with a forum like this, because actions can be judged on two planes:

 

1) the interchange on the forum itself

2) the actions described that are taking place in real life.

[bentnotbroken]

I wonder if OW tend to be more compassionate and understanding towards others since they have seen themselves and their lovers do things that are considered morally wrong?

 

And by the same token BS tend to be more judgmental since they have not done things that are considered morally wrong?

 

Sometimes making a mistake here and there makes you more humble.

 

 

Hmmmmm, Nope. We all do things morally wrong. It is the nature of man(and woman). Making a mistake does make you humble. Living in a state of sin makes you.....whatever it is that it makes you. I am sure our opinions are different as to what that could be.

[fooled once]

And I would feel exactly the same if the OW/OM were over on infidelity attempting to undermine the BS's and make them feel crap about their situations.

Been over to infidelity lately? Because if you have, you will see that this is done a LOT over there. Many like to twist the knife already in the wife's back just a little bit more.

[NoIDidn't]

It's interesting with a forum like this, because actions can be judged on two planes:

 

1) the interchange on the forum itself

2) the actions described that are taking place in real life.

 

 

This seems so cryptic. Like you are saying that people aren't living the lives they claim to be living off the boards. Is that what you are saying?

 

What actions are described from real life that you are referencing?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I think your motives were plenty evident in your OP (Which for the record, we have previously been admonished by LS staff to answer the OP in a thread and not get caught up in all that follows, now that appears to have been changed.. ) which made a blanket statement about OW that is patently incorrect.

 

I, for one, take issue with having my thought processes and judgements compared to lizzie's. While I think that lizzie is a lovely person, her morality, values, and insights are her own, and to compare her views and mine is most often to compare apples and bowling balls. (Oranges are too close to apples for that comparison.)

 

So, I do make objection about her thoughts and morality being touted as "OW" opinion. Those are her opinions, not mine, and not any other OW's. If you take offence at something I do or say, then do not presume that it is an OW opinion, simply mine. To do otherwise is to do yourself and me a disservice. That is being judgemental, imposing your offense by one on to the heads of many simply because you are opposed to the one thing that we have in common, our OW status.

 

 

FA, there were plenty of judgements made in that post. Even moral judgements as they relate to Lizzie. I think that was GG's point. It isn't considered wrong when the OW judge. Recently an OW was jumped on for only wanting sex from her partner. I've seen it before as well. One OW said that it was wrong to have an affair for a reason other than love :eek: That's a moral judgement. I've also seen YOU jump on a poster you "considered" to be a troll and make very strong judgements about the validity of their post.

 

So OW even judge each other. OW judge BS. You also judged GG's purpose of creating this thread. Honestly, I get where GG is coming from. Its frustrating to operate within the bounderies of a double standard. Which is IMO the norm for any BS posting on LS in either forum. If telling someone they are wrong for a certain act is wrong, then accusing someone of being judgemental is wrong. Right???

 

Its very easy to be compassionate about a situation in which one themselves are in,you can't really help but be, where is the compassion outside of that? I haven't seen it at all.

[NoIDidn't]

I find the attempts by some OW to distance themselves from Lizzie to be interesting. They obviously don't know her posting history. She was an OW for years, and in the end even lived with her guy for several more years. I think she said 18 years.

 

So why isn't Lizzie an OW like the others?

 

It is a moral judgment against Lizzie to insist she is somehow *different* from other OW. Especially when not wanting to elaborate on why.

[Fallen Angel]

Again' date=' why are some OW so quick to distance themselves from Lizzie?[/quote']

 

I can not speak for other OW, only myself. But i choose to distance myself from lizzie's moraility because it differs from my own. Just as I would distance myself from your morality, and FO's and greengoddess' and anyone's whose moral code differs from mine. mine is mine. If I am to be judged, judge me based upon my own morality and values, not on someone else's just simply because we are both female and are both in EMAs. Those two things make us no more alike than those apples and bowling balls of which I speak.

[Fallen Angel]

I find the attempts by some OW to distance themselves from Lizzie to be interesting. They obviously don't know her posting history. She was an OW for years, and in the end even lived with her guy for several more years. I think she said 18 years.

 

So why isn't Lizzie an OW like the others?

 

It is a moral judgment against Lizzie to insist she is somehow *different* from other OW. Especially when not wanting to elaborate on why.

 

I make moral judgements ever day. I have to. It is imperative to my nature. To do otherwise would lead to chaos in my life. To live without moral judgement is to live with no boundaries, to live without law, to live without conscience.

 

I do see myself as different from lizzie. Just as I am different from every person on this board, and every person I will ever meet. I do not care if I am to be judged, so long as i am judged on what i have done, my words and actions and my values. And not judged on the words, actions and values of someone else.

[desertIslandCactus]

I wonder if OW tend to be more compassionate and understanding towards others since they have seen themselves and their lovers do things that are considered morally wrong?

 

And by the same token BS tend to be more judgmental since they have not done things that are considered morally wrong?

 

Sometimes making a mistake here and there makes you more humble.

Are you saying that you are more compassionate towards BS than other BS would be?

 

 

OWs appear to be "compassionate and understanding" toward one-another.

[Fallen Angel]

FA, there were plenty of judgements made in that post. Even moral judgements as they relate to Lizzie. I think that was GG's point. It isn't considered wrong when the OW judge. Recently an OW was jumped on for only wanting sex from her partner. I've seen it before as well. One OW said that it was wrong to have an affair for a reason other than love :eek: That's a moral judgement. I've also seen YOU jump on a poster you "considered" to be a troll and make very strong judgements about the validity of their post.

 

So OW even judge each other. OW judge BS. You also judged GG's purpose of creating this thread. Honestly, I get where GG is coming from. Its frustrating to operate within the bounderies of a double standard. Which is IMO the norm for any BS posting on LS in either forum. If telling someone they are wrong for a certain act is wrong, then accusing someone of being judgemental is wrong. Right???

 

Its very easy to be compassionate about a situation in which one themselves are in,you can't really help but be, where is the compassion outside of that? I haven't seen it at all.

 

Yes, OW judge OW. OW judge BW. BW judge OW. BW judge BW. and on, and on and on, ad nauseum.

 

We all make judgement. There is nothing wrong with it. In fact, without passing a judgement you are simply following mob rule, and might as well be brain dead and allow yourself to be led along like a lemming to the edge of a cliff.

 

I do judge gg's OP as having a particular intent. Just as my posts have a particular intent that you must judge. It is called conscious thought!!!

 

But I contend there is a difference between making a judgement call, and being judgmental. One is as another poster said "condemning" the other is just actively participating in your own life.

[BB07]

Again' date=' why are some OW so quick to distance themselves from Lizzie?[/quote']

 

It's simple.....Lizzie is so different than most OW.

She has multiple MM, she does not profess to love any of them. She hints that there is financial compensation from her MM in exchange for sex. I'm not knocking you Lizzie, but so it's clear what I'm saying, a lot of people find her choices distasteful, so you get the difference right?

We all know this, Lizzie is pretty frank and upfront about it, so I don't get why you are making a big deal about the differences. It may not be right, it may not be fair, but it's the way IT IS.

[Silly_Girl]

Been over to infidelity lately? Because if you have, you will see that this is done a LOT over there. Many like to twist the knife already in the wife's back just a little bit more.

 

No FO. I pop over there on occasion if I a thread topic appeals to me.

 

Well that stinks and maybe the 2 boards could do with being more respectful of one another. Else there's not much point in splitting them, may as well have one big judgmental board and accept it'll be a bitch-fest offering no support whatsoever

[BB07]

Dexter, I really feel as though you are missing the point, But you do that a lot

 

This is an OW/OM forum. It is for advice and support. FOR the OW and OM. Not for BS's to come and vent or to drop one-line bitchy comments based on their own situations.

 

There are BS's who firmly state what their judgment actually is, but still offer relevant and practical advice, or help a poster understand their situation more.

 

And I would feel exactly the same if the OW/OM were over on infidelity attempting to undermine the BS's and make them feel crap about their situations.

 

There are some pretty amazing posters, who have been betrayed, but offer their perspective to OW with so much kindness and understanding that I can only admire.

 

Thumbs UP for SG and Ellin in the above posts.

[Silly_Girl]

I find the attempts by some OW to distance themselves from Lizzie to be interesting. They obviously don't know her posting history. She was an OW for years, and in the end even lived with her guy for several more years. I think she said 18 years.

 

So why isn't Lizzie an OW like the others?

 

It is a moral judgment against Lizzie to insist she is somehow *different* from other OW. Especially when not wanting to elaborate on why.

 

I don't and couldn't live my life like that. I am not proud of being an OW, I do not enjoy many aspects of it, I am sad (and feel guilt) that the man I have fallen most deeply in love with in my life was already legally and morally committed to another.

 

Why on earth SHOULDN'T I distance my situation from Lizzie's????

 

I'll distinguish between my circumstances and those of... let's say FA and jennie-jennie. What's right for them is not right for me.

 

It's like suggesting all criminals are equal and a petty thief is the same as an abusive spouse is the same as a tax-dodger is the same as a murderer is the same as a speeding motorist. All so different.