NEWSFLASH - Marriage sometimes is boring.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Marriage is the biggest bait and switch in the history of the world.

 

I disagree. We're all human and equally imperfect...Situations like mine or worse will arise in any relationship over time.

[InternationalPlayboy]

It's extremely difficult to deeply know and accept another person, and to feel deeply known and accepted by them. It can take a lifetime.

 

A sense that this is what is happening in your relationship - an ongoing desire to deeply connect with one other person in this world, and making discernible progress in this direction, is what keeps it from being boring.

 

Yes there are boring times. Selfish times. Annoying times. Ef this, I want a divorce times. I do not want to admit to my own flaws times.

 

You push through them. You ask yourself about the other person's feelings and try to really, really "get" them. They're just as weird and complicated as you are and yet...different! What's to get bored by?

 

People refer to the "elephant in the room". The elephant in the room is usually just some variation on, who are you? Who am I? Do you really like me? Can I really trust you? Would you like me if you knew I had certain thoughts? etc.

 

If you can get through the hell of it all to get positive answers to these questions and ultimately feel that, Hey! You know me, warts and all, and you still care about my well being! You know what I want, how I think, what I can and cannot do and can get royally pissed at me and yet still LOVE me...you know me and not the bulls**t version I try to present to the world while at the same time publically upholding the version I present to the world! You ROCK!

 

THAT'S how people stay married for 50+ years. And if someone can feel that they have done all that and yet are still "bored" then...they are probably boring and/or shallow themselves. It isn't all about crawling into someone's psyche, you do need to have interests to share and mutually understand or there isn't much to talk about, but the transcendental aspects are about opening your humanity up for inspection and inspecting someone else's with love and acceptance.

 

I've been trying to understand and feel understood by my husband for 14 years. There has been much progress, there is much more to make. I find the process endlessly fascinating and frequently frustrating. The deeper you go, the more connected to that person you feel, and the more a part of you they seem to be, until eventually they feel like an essential part of your existence.

 

I feel far more connected to my husband than I felt when we were first in lust and all that. I was on the verge of divorcing him a year or so ago but just kept fighting the good fight, and finally starting to feel like we're winning...I love him more because I know him better, and vice versa.

 

Thanks. You raised a lot of good points.

[InternationalPlayboy]

So there was no sex the previous week or this past weekend....and she is saying "maybe" next weekend? Why is she ruling out sexual interest on Mon-Fri? Is there some reason that sex is impossible during the week?

 

It sounds like she is putting you off as long as possible.

 

I don't think you should say "okay" if you don't feel ok. You shouldn't pressure her, of course, but you can be honest about your feelings. If you feel rejected and neglected, you can be honest about that while still respecting her position.

 

Yes, there was no sex last week or this previous weekend and sex is less than likely this week. She typically doesn't desire sex during the week - we both wake early as do the kids...So there's that. We do have sex sometimes during the week - but only when she feels she has no other responsibilities whatsoever.

 

I don't think I should say okay, but I'm willing to wait. I don't want to pressure her - and really there's nothing else coming down the pike. If she can keep to her promises of kissing and hugging it makes waiting no so bad.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I want to expand on this a little bit....

 

I think you need to respect when she isn't in the mood, but pressure her to make an effort to be in the mood more often. Pressure her to make your relationship a higher priority. Make it clear that you don't want mercy sex, and that you don't want her to "give you" sex (because that will reduce her attraction to you longterm), but that you want a partner with a healthy outlook toward sex and affection. You want her to WANT sex and intimacy, not just give it.

 

Does she want to want it? If so, where do you (both of you) go from here to get that back? (along the lines of the cologne, was there a scent you wore when dating that you could wear again?)

 

Does she NOT want to want it? If not, is she truly committed to this marriage?

 

Honestly, here's how things usually play out: She doesn't want sex during her period or the days immediately before or after it. Once that's passed, she gets frisky - this is when we typically have sex, maybe once or twice in a week. The next week we may have sex once more. Then the following week everything slows as she prepares for her period - in a good month we may have sex one more time this week.

 

The cycle of life is truly beautiful to behold.

 

As for the cologne, yes she gave me a suggestion or two. Which I found curious, but I will be shopping for it today.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Ah....true love. Sorry but this is so ridiculous. She doesn't want a husband, she wants a roommate.

 

It does feel that way sometimes, I know.

[InternationalPlayboy]

she is already feeling pressurised... she is putting it off. You need to know the reason, whatever that is... then, you (both of you) can work on it. But she's not been honest with you. You need to know what that reason is, even if it's bad news...

 

PS. I had to smile at the cologne thing... I can just see your wife's face... "oh no, now I have to have sex with him..."

 

I know the reason - she just not a hyper sexual person and never has been. It's only gotten worse as we've had kids.

 

I knew she never expected me to drop my plans and go shopping for cologne that very day.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Sorry if this has already been covered...

 

1) Is your wife aware of your inclination toward picturing every goddamnwomenusee as nude and wondering about her sexual skills? That you have these persistent thoughts about "a little strange" - for "almost ANYONE new"? Think about it before answering. She might know without you coming right out and admitting it, and it might be a turn off.

 

2) Have you had a discussion of what is missing for her in your relationship, that involves just listening to what she has to say, rather than assume it is being told she is beautiful and wants flowers, etc? She might feel as if she is being treated like a "typical woman" and in response sees you as a "typical man". Perhaps if you could show more genuine interest in things that would actually please her and in her as a person without respect to sex, she would feel a more genuine desire to please you.

 

I am NOT saying you do or don't do these things, just offering food for thought. One example of it would be to ask her opinion on some non-sexual matter (I dunno, politics, a story about a controversial topic, what's her favorite movie) and show that you respect her thoughts. Another would be to ask her which cologne SHE would choose for you to wear (who are you trying to appeal to, after all). Maybe you don't treat her enough as a person with a brain, whose thoughts you respect, and maybe this matters.

 

Like I said, I am not jumping to the conclusion that these are actual issues in your M, but they have been issues with me in relationships at times so thought I would throw them out there.

 

1. Well, she knows I'm a pervert. And she says I sometimes give her lizard eye when an attractive woman is near. But she said this since they day we met. But I believe if anything she trusts me more now than when we first dated - she knows the pervert she married. She probably doesn't quite know the minute detail of what passes through my mind when around attractive women, but I hardly know it myself.

 

2. We did discuss these things the other night - she wants me to layoff the need for touch and to provide some romance. But to be honest, I'm not holding my breath - there have been countless times where I've done these things, planned special time just for her and I...and she takes it as an opportunity to fall asleep early. As for discussing things beyond our relationship like you mentioned...well...I see us going in different ways there. We don't share many of the same interests we once did. She loves watching TV dramas, I hate watching TV period. I read like a madman and she's only read maybe 10 books in the last decade. I sit with her when she watches her programs and try to remain interested, but when I ask to read before bed, she asks I go to the living room so she can sleep. She wants to visit the beach or sit by the pool, I'd rather go to a museum or find a new restaurant...There are other examples, but these issues worry me. These are the same types of things my parents went through.

[InternationalPlayboy]

This situation represents a total communication breakdown. She is not inclined to tell the OP how to get her from neutral to warm to hot. Alternatively the sex itself isn't doing it for her and she is afraid to say what she really likes.

 

Telling her he feels bad that she is rejecting him - is a clumsy type of pressure. INSISTING that she teach him how to get her in the mood when she is in neutral - that is likely a workable path provided she actually gives a damn about how much this bothers him.

 

Frankly I struggle to grasp how a marriage can work when one of the spouses is not able to assert themselves effectively regarding deal ruiners....

 

I'm not sure this is accurate. We discuss a lot - we're around each other almost 24 hours per day, very little gets by either of is. But she's never been a highly sexual person. Aside from the first couple months we were together - once a week or less has always satisfied her. Though nothing has changed over the years regarding our frequency, I have no doubt the quality has improved 10 fold in that time. I still don't consider this particular situation a deal breaker - the consequences could be a deal breaker, but not this alone.

[xxoo]

2. We did discuss these things the other night - she wants me to layoff the need for touch and to provide some romance.

 

I'm going to be very presumptuous here, but I suspect a big part of the problem is that SHE doesn't know what it would take for her to get in the mood more often. Sitting across the table making googoo eyes just doesn't do it for me. It makes me feel close and loving, but it doesn't make me want to jump him, kwim? Skin-to-skin contact, touch, is what gets me turned on.

 

Yes, there needs to be effort (from both of you) to feel emotionally closer. This could be romantic stuff, or hashing out resentments, or rebalancing workloads--a number of things.

 

But, there also needs to be effort (from both of you) to touch more, regardless of whether you feel particularly mushy at the moment.

 

There is a place for "fake it 'til you make it". It is a habit and a comfort zone as much as anything. She is out of practice touching and being touched, and that won't change unless she jumps in and chooses to change it.

 

We don't share many of the same interests we once did. She loves watching TV dramas, I hate watching TV period. I read like a madman and she's only read maybe 10 books in the last decade. I sit with her when she watches her programs and try to remain interested, but when I ask to read before bed, she asks I go to the living room so she can sleep. She wants to visit the beach or sit by the pool, I'd rather go to a museum or find a new restaurant...There are other examples, but these issues worry me. These are the same types of things my parents went through.

 

My H and I are like this. It is a non-issue for us. We sit on the couch together, with my legs on his lap. He watches football; I read or surf the net. When the game is over, I close my book (or the laptop), and we make out .

 

There are many ways to work out different preferences in recreation: taking turns, doing different things in the same space, or taking some "me" time to do the things your partner doesn't like to do. This kind of thing becomes a bigger problem when there is unwillingness to take turns, or provide "me" time.

 

I still don't consider this particular situation a deal breaker - the consequences could be a deal breaker, but not this alone.

 

What do you mean by that? What consequences?

[hellhathnofury]

OP, I would also suggest you have a good look at this thread. Especially page 3 there's some really sound advice in there.... it may resonate with you.

[luvstarved]

OP, you say you love each other, and you have remained faithful and want to continue to do so, despite the overwhelming and unsatisfied urges you contend with.

 

You also say that you do not share much in the way of interests, nor much in the way of non-sexual affection.

 

It might be helpful to set the sexual thoughts aside (briefly!) and write down 10 qualities of your wife that you value and/or are the reasons you married her.

 

I am not saying that dwelling on those qualities is going to tame your libido or anything...I am saying that thinking of those qualities and then finding a way of interacting with her that shows your appreciation of those qualities might be key to this situation.

 

Another thing I would like to understand is...what exactly would be enough from her for you? I DO think there is a libido mismatch in this case, and so do feel that the more than 1x a week is only going to happen when she decides that she wants you to feel pleased more than she wants to...sleep or whatever. This is why I think pondering her good qualities is important - will help you to determine ways to think more about her needs, better ways to show your genuine appreciation of her as a person, and could possibly lead to a better mutual appreciation that in turn leads to a greater desire to please each other in ways that you each WANT to be pleased!

 

But - what would get you focused more on her as a person AND sexually really? Is there really ANYTHING that she can do to keep you from thinking about other women, and putting out that fire of desire you carry around? If she happily gave you a BJ twice a week (or whatever) would it be enough to offset these feelings?

 

I think that you should think about some of these things...but, my final question is...if the libido mismatch is unfixable and things were to continue more or less as they are, is there any alternative that would work for both of you? In general, I think pornography is anti-intimacy, but is it possible that this would be a satisfactory compromise in your case? It might not be "ideal" but just wondering if it might not mitigate the frustration you live with...

[InternationalPlayboy]

What do you mean by that? What consequences?

 

Infidelity might be a deal breaker, but lack of intimacy alone is not a deal breaker. But infidelity might be a consequence of lack of intimacy, if that makes sense.

[hellhathnofury]

You feel like cheating, is that it?

 

You could do worse than explain to her gently, that while you fully see her standpoint and can try to empathise, you too have your needs and requirements.

 

What would be, does she think, her opinion on you getting laid elsewhere but with her tacit approval? (she would never need to know the when and who, or any details....)

 

because your alternative is to cheat, and you don't want to do that.

 

I think there are times when sometimes, a discussion of this kind, might not only be understandable, it might even be necessary.....

[luvstarved]

Infidelity might be a deal breaker, but lack of intimacy alone is not a deal breaker. But infidelity might be a consequence of lack of intimacy, if that makes sense.

 

Yes, the problem is not that you are hungry, but that you might eat!

[BlackLovely]

I'll never understand what women are thinking when they develop this kind of attitude towards their husbands. When you're in a committed relationship with someone, it's really a form of betrayal and disrespect to decide that affection and sex are optional, something that can be shelved. It's true delusion to think that sex isn't a huge issue.

 

I like one of the poster's answers - 'great, we don't have to have sex anymore. Then you'll need to be ok with it when I find it somewhere else.'

 

If that doesn't wake her up, then I guess nothing else will. These are the women who wake up years later and act so stunned that their husbands have been cheating on them for 5 or 10 yrs. I'm not saying that anyone deserves to be cheated on, but I will say that a lot of people set themsevles up for it.

 

Note to wives: Children are not an excuse to ignore your husband. Marriage is not a license to check-out of the physical aspects of a relationship. And if you choose to do it, be prepared for the consequences.

 

As another poster suggested, maybe what you and your wife need to do is re-think your lives. Perhaps you should change your lifestyles so that she no longer has to work and can feel less stressed out. Or maybe she can work somewhere else on a part-time basis. It would separate the two of you from working together all day, and reduce stress. If nothing else, maybe one of you needs to find another job.

 

I concur with the bolded statements. I think it also goes both ways; husbands who do not make love to their wives, for no good reason, deserve to be cheated on. I will say it because it's TRUE:

 

Sex is an important aspect of marriage. Don't get married if you plan on rarely putting out.

People admonish me for being selfish, because I do not want children. Nobody wants to admit it, but children are bad for a couple's physical relationship. Stretch marks, baby weight, stitches and wailing brats do nothing for married sex. I enjoy lovemaking with my husband so much, why would I want our amazing sex ruined by babies? It just doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

The OP needs to find someone that is able and willing to meet his sexual needs, or he can chose to stay for the children and expose them to an unhappy marriage. Not to insult his wife, but she seems ridiculously prudish and uptight. Too many people downplay the importance of sex in a marriage; lack of it can lead to resentment and feeling unloved.

 

I tell my husband that he's very very lucky. He gets much more hot, unrestrained sex than any hubby in North America! I don't think that most married men, especially fathers, enjoy sex 5-6 times a week. Why, just yesterday, I gave him a blow job while we cuddled up and watched TV. I did this for no reason, except loving my husband, as well as finding him incredibly sexy.

[scatterd]

Keeping your marriage sexual is hard with the kids work and all the stresses

but both wife and husband are responsible for keeping your sex life wonderful

Woman need to hear how lovely they are and feel like they are very sexy and wanted and it takes time to work a woman up men are visual they like sexy cloths and watching we both have different needs.Finding time for each other is hard but if you squeeze in time for each other and do what it takes to keep each other satisfied maybe you wont be bored.Try talking about what you want make each other feel wanted any realationship gets boring after a while but being married and bringing another person in your marriage is asking for trouble.Try taking her to a nice hotel and whisper how sexy she is and take things slow ask her to wair what you want if you both work together you can rekindle the feeling you had in the beginning.I am not an expert just a loud

dreamer but it sounded good huh.

[florence of suburbia]

International, do you ever feel that marriage itself and the ways of marriage are a natural dampener to sex?

 

I do believe that, and I think Mem is onto something. He's found a way to include a bit of uncertainty and storminess in a marriage that is basically solid.

 

I've actually read that couples who fight passionately have more passionate sex lives.

[florence of suburbia]

The part in bold is not true of all couples. That's not been true in my marriage. I'm happy for you that you have a great marriage. I do feel a little sad for you that you think you have to choose between a happy marriage and kids. Nope. We have both a healthy, sexual marriage AND kids. Yup, some of us really can have it all! Imagine that. I think the OP sometimes DOES have it all and he can again. Don't give up International!

 

Oh and Black Lovely, why do you have to tell your H that he's very lucky? I never have to tell mine that. He just knows it and tells ME all the time how lucky HE is.

 

 

 

Perhaps so, (I don't think so though.) Which would you rather have though, if you had to choose, a marriage with passionate fighting and sex or one with almost no fighting and sex that's just good?

 

Me, I never wanted to choose between those two. I had to have it all. And I do. Kids and all! Go figure.

Sex that's just good would be a great step forward, so, yes, I would be ok with that.

[florence of suburbia]

Also, I just wonder what the dynamics are that come into play. Lots of people feel that the partner who is reticent is simply selfish. I'm not convinced that there is a "bad guy" and a "good guy" in the situation.

[xxoo]

Infidelity might be a deal breaker, but lack of intimacy alone is not a deal breaker. But infidelity might be a consequence of lack of intimacy, if that makes sense.

 

I don't know if you are overthinking it, or if I am, but I can't see how this isn't a dealbreaker if it might lead to infidelity. The "deal" is sexual fidelity, so if this potentially could lead you to choose infidelity, then it is a potential "dealbreaker". It could potentially be the reason you break the fidelity "deal".

 

But why would you go directly to infidelity? Why not choose being open and direct about the dealbreaker first?

[xxoo]

I concur with the bolded statements. I think it also goes both ways; husbands who do not make love to their wives, for no good reason, deserve to be cheated on. I will say it because it's TRUE:

 

Sex is an important aspect of marriage. Don't get married if you plan on rarely putting out.

 

People admonish me for being selfish, because I do not want children. Nobody wants to admit it, but children are bad for a couple's physical relationship. Stretch marks, baby weight, stitches and wailing brats do nothing for married sex. I enjoy lovemaking with my husband so much, why would I want our amazing sex ruined by babies? It just doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

The OP needs to find someone that is able and willing to meet his sexual needs, or he can chose to stay for the children and expose them to an unhappy marriage. Not to insult his wife, but she seems ridiculously prudish and uptight. Too many people downplay the importance of sex in a marriage; lack of it can lead to resentment and feeling unloved.

 

I tell my husband that he's very very lucky. He gets much more hot, unrestrained sex than any hubby in North America! I don't think that most married men, especially fathers, enjoy sex 5-6 times a week. Why, just yesterday, I gave him a blow job while we cuddled up and watched TV. I did this for no reason, except loving my husband, as well as finding him incredibly sexy.

 

Gosh, BL, I don't know where to start

 

I guess I'll just point out that many motivated couples do NOT find their love life ruined by children. Babies take a toll, yes, but babies grow quickly.

 

And, the experience of raising children together can deepen the sexual relationship in ways that were not even imaginable before embarking on the parenting journey together.

 

It is misleading to paint all couples (parents or non) with such a large brush.

[crazycatlady]

Gosh, BL, I don't know where to start

 

I guess I'll just point out that many motivated couples do NOT find their love life ruined by children. Babies take a toll, yes, but babies grow quickly.

 

And, the experience of raising children together can deepen the sexual relationship in ways that were not even imaginable before embarking on the parenting journey together.

 

It is misleading to paint all couples (parents or non) with such a large brush.

 

XXOO - beautifully put as always.

 

Plus even now with my kids school age, one verging on teenagehood (or so it feels like it even if she has a couple of more years to go), there is something truly special (to us) about holding them between us and looking over their heads and into each other's eyes. Yeah, it might have dampened things for a year or two after each birth, but we sure are making up for lost time.

[florence of suburbia]

Isn't the opposite of selfishness, altruism? Here's the definition of altruistic:

 

altruistic: showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others

 

Yes, absolutely. It's just...I wish it were simple, but it doesn't seem that way to me.

 

Here's an analogy based on a real couple I knew:

 

The wife was an amazing cook. She cooked all kinds of beautiful, healthful gourmet food, but her husband was a simple guy. A meal was just a necessity to keep energy for the stuff he really wanted to do. On occasions when he did enjoy a meal, it was a baloney sandwich or a hard boiled egg. He didn't have gourmet taste, and he never seemed to relish and appreciate her creations the way she hoped. Not that he wasn't thankful. He ate what she cooked, he was always polite and he appreciated the trouble she went to. It was just his heart wasn't in it.

 

She was hurt and rejected. Her cooking was her gift, it came from the deepest, most creative part of herself and he did not value it. She couldn't imagine not cooking, so she kept hoping he would change. She tried different recipes that he might like better, tried serving at different times and talked to him at length about how important it was to her that he enjoy the food.

 

In truth, he became more and more aware of his inability to live up to her expectations. She would make him homemade macaroni and cheese with four different cheeses and he would find himself fantasizing about Kraft mac 'n cheese. He liked box meals because there wasn't such a fuss over eating, there weren't so many dirty dishes and they could still have time in the evening to go for a walk or watch their favorite show together...

 

Eventually meals became a huge stress for both of them. She started to fear and dread another rejection each time she cooked, to the point where she couldn't enjoy the creative process anymore, and each time he sat down to a meal, he felt the pressure of being responsive enough, of proving to her that he savored the food, even though it didn't come naturally. He started avoiding meals at home because he felt like a fake, and the stress was literally making him nauseous.

 

Soon they were hardly ever eating together at all.

Edited October 13, 2010 by florence of suburbia

[florence of suburbia]

Wow, what a sad story, Flo. Tell your friend she needs to stop cooking. Seriously. Tell her to turn off the stove. It's a waste of gas.

 

Would she consider the microwave?

Maybe she should. A whole new approach perhaps? Maybe she should roast a chicken on a spit over an open flame.

[florence of suburbia]

I highly recommend open pit cooking. It's fast and out in the open. Sometimes, crock pot cooking is ok too.

 

A long, slow simmer...

 

Maybe you do get it. In the end, it isn't about who's right and who's wrong, it's about what works. And if she wants him to sincerely enjoy the experience, she's going to have to dish out something he's hungry for.

 

There's no payoff to eating if the experience is , or even just so-so.