Should there be "unconditional love" between spouses?

[LittleTiger]

OK - still trying to understand here - Tara's point that unconditional love "encompasses all", and her use of the Dali Lama as her example was leading me to understand her description of it more as a state of mind and spirit - an enlightenment, if you will. A love of life, a love of all, unconditional, unbounded, encompassing all. Sounds hard to reach, but blissful.

 

But yours is limited to specific beings. So is that really unconditional?

 

Yes, I realize that we are now pretty much just arguing semantics - what are we going to call this thing we have a term for, and what is the meaning of this term that we use. I'm not doing it just for the sake of argument, but to try to understand what we're talking about here.

 

I believe the unconditional love I'm talking about is the same as Tara's as she describes it here:

 

"Unconditional Love is balanced by wisdom and Compassion. It knows no limitations or provisos. It is the kind of Love, for example, Gandhi held in his heart for all mankind, even though he made some pretty harsh decisions, and kicked a few asses. But his affection and compassion for everyone, made him a unique individual. Unconditional Love does not Judge but can criticise. It has no bias but can weigh up options."

 

It is because of this kind of love that my marital break-up and divorce didn't turn into one of the ugly battles that we read about so often on LS, and the reason that I have been able to remain friends with my ex.

 

This kind of love can, and indeed should, be felt for all mankind and I do my best to love in this way as much as possible. However, as yet, I have only succeeded in experiencing such feelings towards 'certain beings' as you say. I am not Gandhi or the Dalai Lama but I'm working on it

[TaraMaiden]

mem11363, I'm sorry have you read the posts? I don't think you're getting it.

 

I'm really not trying to be rude, argumentative or confrontational here. Truly....

 

But your post would indicate that you do not honestly understand what Unconditional love is. Either that, or that you are unwilling to entertain it, even for your own children, after a certain age....

 

You seem unwilling to consider it as possible....

[LittleTiger]

Giving a "spouse" unconditional love is almost always a train wreck.

 

I totally disagree mem.

 

Unconditional love (on both our parts I think) allowed my marriage to end in a genuinely amicable way, and allowed us to remain friends. We are both flawed human beings and we both acknowledged that.

 

Loving unconditionally doesn't mean that you put up with every kind of sh*t your spouse throws at you. It means you love them, despite their bad behaviour, you forgive them and you move on.

[carhill]

Giving a "spouse" unconditional love is almost always a train wreck.

 

If the road is one-way, watch out for the drunk driving the wrong way.

 

Before my marriage, I believed in unconditional love for spouse. Being married taught me a lot, especially that things aren't always as they seem. I think this is one area where the contemporary women in my life taught me much more and more clearly than my role model did. I received the flawed version of unconditional love modeling from her. She's gone now, died last week, so now I move on and look at love and relationships realistically.

 

Bi-lateral unconditional love is a goal worthy of pursuit, but unrealistic in my now older, more cynical view. Perhaps it's more a thing for the young. Hope it works out for them

[threebyfate]

There's no such thing as unconditional love unless we're talking about the first few weeks after birth, between a mother and her baby. Even then, mothers expect that their children will return their love to some degree, if not all their efforts.

 

Human beings cannot love unconditionally since most aren't altruistic in the purist sense. Guaranteed, any buddhist has no idea what unconditional love really means.

[LittleTiger]

Guaranteed, any buddhist has no idea what unconditional love really means.

 

Have you studied buddhism then TBF?

 

Just wondering how you're qualified to make such a sweeping statement.

[Trimmer]

Bi-lateral unconditional love is a goal worthy of pursuit, but unrealistic in my now older, more cynical view. Perhaps it's more a thing for the young. Hope it works out for them

I think I'm sitting next to you in a rocker out on the porch at the ol' folks home, because that's more or less what I've settled upon. And I'm at peace with it, too; it doesn't come from a place of sadness or bitterness, just an acceptance that I now see reality, or my reality at least. I still root genuinely and enthusiastically for those younger folks, and those still making it work.

 

Human beings cannot love unconditionally since most aren't altruistic in the purist sense. Guaranteed, any buddhist has no idea what unconditional love really means.

 

Patcheeeeeeewwwww! ............. SPLASH!

 

That's the sound a shot across the bow makes.

[2.50 a gallon]

In answer to the question, I say no.

 

I am fortunate enough to be in a very loving relationship, one that most people would dream off.

 

Do I love her uncondtionally, nope! Close to it and almost, but there are conditions, such as her coming home every night. And that is the key.

 

Knowing that either of us could leave at any time keeps us on our toes.

I hate the term "working at it", but that in a nut shell is what we do.

 

Daily, I talk with her and listen to what she has to say, daily I find a reason to make her laugh, every day I find a new way to tell her how beautiful she is, daily I do some kind of cleaning around the house, daily I try to find a way to make life a little easier for her. Daily I find a way to make loving fun. Daily I give her a reason to come home every night, and she does the same for me.

 

If our love was unconditional, I am sure that eventually one of us would start taking the other for granted and the love would begin to wither and die.

[You Go Girl]

I'm new here, and many of the threads and comments have helped me gain a new perspective. I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my marriage - something has to change.

 

So... now, I have a simple question. I base it on the feelings I have for my children (both grown and on their own). I love them unconditionally, They could do anything, and I would still love them. Suppose I don't feel this way about my spouse?

 

About me... married over 25 years. Still care deeply for my spouse. We've both made mistakes along the way - her infidelity, my rage when I found out - money troubles, all solved now - my own issues from being abused as a child, which I'm working on - her issues of emotional detachment, which she's working on now.

 

But along with those mistakes is a beautiful past. Wonderful memories of raising our children, cooking dinner together, taking vacations, decorating our house, romantic dates (I'm an incurable romantic) - all beautiful stuff.

 

But those troubles have taken the spark away. That unconditional love isn't there like it is for my children. I'm seriously considering separation and possibly divorce. We've done well together, but it may be time to move on.

 

Is it possible to rekindle that unconditional love after carrying so much baggage?

So something has to change. What specifically would you like to see happen?

Wonderful memories...so do you imagine looking at those old photographs by yourself on lonely Friday nights, or burying them in a box in the back of the closet?

The spark...are you spending time in your mind imagining a new woman to give you that spark?

Do you have a woman in mind?

What do you think of my signature line?

[TaraMaiden]

There's no such thing as unconditional love unless we're talking about the first few weeks after birth, between a mother and her baby. Even then, mothers expect that their children will return their love to some degree, if not all their efforts.

So there IS such a thing as unconditional love, according to your statement...

 

Human beings cannot love unconditionally since most aren't altruistic in the purist sense. Guaranteed, any buddhist has no idea what unconditional love really means.

I'm sorry your relationship is lacking in this way....

 

 

Have you studied buddhism then TBF?

 

Just wondering how you're qualified to make such a sweeping statement.

She's qualified because she thinks her opinion matters. This is illusory.....

 

Patcheeeeeeewwwww! ............. SPLASH!

 

That's the sound a shot across the bow makes.

 

Yeah.

It misses its mark.

[TaraMaiden]

Bi-lateral unconditional love is a goal worthy of pursuit, but unrealistic in my now older, more cynical view. Perhaps it's more a thing for the young. Hope it works out for them

 

And here's another point of Unconditional Love (perhaps one that many have missed so far....)

The whole point is that it's UNconditional. So in actual fact, the partner is neither obliged nor beholden to give it back.

 

Unconditional Love is given without expectation or demand of reciprocation.

Unconditional Love is given whether the person asks for it or not, accepts it or not, deserves it or not, or wants it or not.

Unconditional Love is given and never on the condition that it be returned.

 

You can stop love coming from you, but you can't stop it coming to you.

 

This is why in actual fact, such a strident unequivocal view such as TbF has, shows that if she cannot give her H or her child unconditional Love, nor does she expect it from either of them, it begs the question - what's her point?

[Shakz]

There's no such thing as unconditional love unless we're talking about the first few weeks after birth, between a mother and her baby. Even then, mothers expect that their children will return their love to some degree, if not all their efforts.

 

Human beings cannot love unconditionally since most aren't altruistic in the purist sense. Guaranteed, any buddhist has no idea what unconditional love really means.

 

Really? I have a brother I despise. He is not worthy of my respect, much less my love. I hate him. But I would gladly give my life for him. There is nothing that he would ask me that I would not supply, if it was within my capacity to give. I hate him. Therefore I love him. Without condition.

[carhill]

You can stop love coming from you, but you can't stop it coming to you.

 

Very true, and other than that from my parents and the few who have comforted me recently regarding my mother's death, I've felt little true love from others in my lifetime. I hope you fare much better. Unconditionally.

[threebyfate]

Really? I have a brother I despise. He is not worthy of my respect, much less my love. I hate him. But I would gladly give my life for him. There is nothing that he would ask me that I would not supply, if it was within my capacity to give. I hate him. Therefore I love him. Without condition.

Is this love or is this familial duty and responsibility?

[Shakz]

Is this love or is this familial duty and responsibility?

 

I don't know. Is there a difference?

[threebyfate]

I don't know. Is there a difference?

Like nobody's business.

[Shakz]

Like nobody's business.

 

So explain. I really don't see a difference. I believe I love my brother. I have never loved a woman as much as I love my brother. I wish I could say otherwise, but I cannot. Supposedly, when a man cleaves to a woman he leaves his family behind and two become one. I've never been able to approach that. Maybe that's why I've never married, because I can't transfer my allegiance. My mother, my brothers, my sisters, they are my loves. No outsider can take their place.

[threebyfate]

So explain. I really don't see a difference. I believe I love my brother. I have never loved a woman as much as I love my brother. I wish I could say otherwise, but I cannot. Supposedly, when a man cleaves to a woman he leaves his family behind and two become one. I've never been able to approach that. Maybe that's why I've never married, because I can't transfer my allegiance. My mother, my brothers, my sisters, they are my loves. No outsider can take their place.

I have a sister who I don't respect and can't stand as a person but if she really needed my help, I would be there for her. I don't see this as love but familial duty and responsibility.

 

Love includes respect and trust.

 

But even love is nothing like unconditional love. Anyone who tells you they can love unconditionally, IMO, is full of horse pucks.

[carhill]

I can't imagine loving someone whose psychology, words and/or actions causes me enough pain to hate. I disconnect such people, family or not. They don't exist. Life's too short. Plenty of valuable and compatible people in the world to love, conditionally or unconditionally.

[Simon Attwood]

OK, here's my take on it.

 

When we crave unconditional love in an adult relationship, it is because, in some way and to some extent, our early development years lacked that unconditional love from the provider, the mother.

 

To crave unconditional love is a craving of the infant, if an adult craves unconditional love then their inner infant, their inner baby, has not had it's need for unconditional love fulfilled by the mother.

 

Healthy, adult love should always be conditional, otherwise it risks becoming very dysfunctional.

 

This point of view may seem hypocritical coming from me

 

It's also incorrect.

You think The Dalai Lama craved Unconditional Love from his partner? (I know, he doesn't have one.....!)

 

The whole point of Unconditional love is that it's not conditional on the relationship.

 

And no, there are not 'different types' of Unconditional Love. Love is either Conditional, or it isn't.

no it's not

 

 

 

You missed the bit where I was discussing craving unconditional love, where you were discussing the giving of unconditional love.

 

Big difference .. HUGE

[Simon Attwood]

There's no such thing as unconditional love unless we're talking about the first few weeks after birth, between a mother and her baby. Even then, mothers expect that their children will return their love to some degree, if not all their efforts.

 

 

Not even then, sometimes, my wife's mother abandoned her when she was only a few weeks old.

[threebyfate]

Not even then, sometimes, my wife's mother abandoned her when she was only a few weeks old.

I'm sorry. Yes, this happens. I'm uncertain how people can abandon their children.

[Shakz]

I have a sister who I don't respect and can't stand as a person but if she really needed my help, I would be there for her. I don't see this as love but familial duty and responsibility.

 

Love includes respect and trust.

 

But even love is nothing like unconditional love. Anyone who tells you they can love unconditionally, IMO, is full of horse pucks.

 

Well, perhaps, but i have no doubt that I would take a bullet for any one of my brothers and sisters. For my mother, I would take two. Is this not love? Someone once said there is no greater love than that a man lay down his life for his friends. To me, that is the measure of love. If you would not go to your grave to protect that other, than you do not truly love them. That is without condition.

[threebyfate]

Well, perhaps, but i have no doubt that I would take a bullet for any one of my brothers and sisters. For my mother, I would take two. Is this not love? Someone once said there is no greater love than that a man lay down his life for his friends. To me, that is the measure of love. If you would not go to your grave to protect that other, than you do not truly love them. That is without condition.

You say you'll take a bullet or two for your family but are you suggesting that if your entire family turned their back and rejected you, you would still hover nearby and love them unconditionally, giving them everything they needed (Bet you don't do this now.)?

[Shakz]

You say you'll take a bullet or two for your family but are you suggesting that if your entire family turned their back and rejected you, you would still hover nearby and love them unconditionally, giving them everything they needed (Bet you don't do this now.)?

 

I can't imagine my entire family turning my back on me. One of my sisters struggled with this because she is a lesbian. She thought we would turn our backs to her. She hid herself, and was in NC for some time. We coaxed her out. When she revealed herself we loved her all the same. We already knew, actually, which came as a a great surprise to her. I would never turn my back on my family, and I am confident that they would never turn their back on me. The reason: we love each other.