Growing closer to friend, but barrier there against emotional investment

[GooseChaser]

OK, as one path, clarify what your boundary is wrt 'being taken advantage of'. Hint: the boundary should be the same, regardless of whether you 'like' the person or not. It's interesting IME to reflect upon that. I think Star touched upon that area with the comment on the hallway encounter.

 

Also, being unhealthily nice doesn't have to turn upon external validation. You can be comfortable being alone, feel worthy of love, and enjoy positive relationships/friendships and still have potential weaknesses/unhealthiness in certain dynamics and/or with certain people. BTDT. The key IMO is in identifying that unhealthiness and resolving it.

 

Can you accept that this man doesn't want a relationship with you? I'm not saying he doesn't, but can you accept, right now, today, that he doesn't, if that is indeed the case? I'm more interested in how you view the concept of acceptance and this potential is a doozy for that concept, given its importance to you.

 

What do you propose as a next step?

That's part of why I'm here, to identify some of those weaknesses I need to work on. I'm a work in progress, still young and inexperienced, and there are definitely things I need to work on to grow. It's all a learning process, eh?

 

If he truly doesn't want a relationship and never will, I would accept that. I can't change his feelings and force him to love me. Only he can make that choice to pursue love. If that wasn't what he wanted in the end, that is his right. We both need to find people who make us happy.

 

I think a good next step could be backing up a bit with the physical intimacy, as much fun as we're having with that, ahaha! Sexually, we have both admitted that we have some chemistry there. That is clear now. Therefore, since the sexual side is not a problem, what would be great to work on now is the emotional connection-- our interpersonal bond. Maybe we need to talk more and get to know each other better, without physical things getting in the way and clouding our vision. A relationship needs both the physical AND mental/emotional connection to work.

[carhill]

Another question to ponder, this one a result of what I learned about my M in MC:

 

Was your family life, childhood and socialization markedly different than his? How? Do you see this as a factor in your current dynamic with him?

 

Perhaps a leading question, but, anyway, do you think if you care about him enough, show him enough empathy and loyalty, he'll be able to break down those emotional walls and tame those risk-taking behaviors and reconnect with all those friends who have faded away and get over his 'pining', etc, etc? Why?

 

My corollary is if I love her long enough and deep enough, she'll find true fulfillment and happiness and I will achieve success as the facilitator. My ego will be fed. I'm relating actual experience here, as I've dealt with this dynamic. Your path is different, but there is insight to gain from other's experiences. MC helped me understand how this perspective was unhealthy for my own psychology. YMMV.

 

OK, all for today..... if he asks you on any official dates or otherwise declares romantic intent, let us know

[GooseChaser]

Another question to ponder, this one a result of what I learned about my M in MC:

 

Was your family life, childhood and socialization markedly different than his? How? Do you see this as a factor in your current dynamic with him?

 

Perhaps a leading question, but, anyway, do you think if you care about him enough, show him enough empathy and loyalty, he'll be able to break down those emotional walls and tame those risk-taking behaviors and reconnect with all those friends who have faded away and get over his 'pining', etc, etc? Why?

 

My corollary is if I love her long enough and deep enough, she'll find true fulfillment and happiness and I will achieve success as the facilitator. My ego will be fed. I'm relating actual experience here, as I've dealt with this dynamic. Your path is different, but there is insight to gain from other's experiences. MC helped me understand how this perspective was unhealthy for my own psychology. YMMV.

 

OK, all for today..... if he asks you on any official dates or otherwise declares romantic intent, let us know

Wow, thanks a ton Carhill!

 

Yes, he and I led very different lives before high school. In high school we started to get to know each other and our lives started to follow a more parallel track, and that has continued in college.

 

I think if I continued being there for him, supporting him, and caring for him, it could make a difference and help him get through his problems. Yes. In the end that responsibility lies with him, though.

 

While once in his life he would be jealous of people who are better off than him financially, he says that now, as an older person, he is gaining more influence with his income, sometimes helping his mother pay for things, and he feels less jealousy and anger toward people today. He has gotten over some of his issues involving this stuff. It probably helped getting to know people in different situations in high school and getting to see-- hey, they aren't so bad after all. He was a very angry little kid. Living in a poor neighborhood-- financially and quality-wise-- he didn't live around the best people in the world, and some of them were mean to him when he was smaller. (That is another valid fact to notice-- he has always been a small person, I'm sure. By now he has found ways to deal with it. He is a slightly shorter man, being 5 foot 6 or 7 inches; this is right around my height as well. I don't mind the lack of height difference, and sometimes I actually find it comfortable; compatible, makes it easy to look him in the eyes, and there is no strain to kiss him in most positions.) He has since grown up, gotten through the tough times, and is better for it. He's pretty strong, tough, and confident, I'd say. They're good words to use to describe him. I find those qualities very attractive.

 

About the quote that I have emphasized from your post (I bolded, italizicized, and underlined it because it's such an important question! ), YES. Let me elaborate!

 

- Family life: I am not quite sure what his relationship is with his father or what's going on there. All I know for sure is, his father is not there at home with them. I don't know if his mom and dad divorced, or if they were never married in the first place-- I think that is unlikely, because he uses his father's last name. While I don't know where his father could be or who he is, his mother is there for him and supports him as well as she can, though she doesn't make an amazing amount of money. What she does provide a lot of is love and support, and that is so important. She is a good cook too. They seem like a happy family, even without this absent father.

He has an older sister, too; she is at least ten years older than him. She has schizophrenia, and stays home with her mom mostly. She didn't have such bad mental problems before, but she had a horrible experience with a marriage that didn't work out, and it brought out her mental condition. It's very sad. She seems friendly enough to me, at least. She just isn't totally there. Sometimes she will disappear and his mom will find her being taken care of at a hospital after a few days, because people notice her acting kooky, contact the police, and have her taken her there.

Comparison to me: I have been lucky enough to have a very stable, supportive family, who cares about my well-being, education, health, and safety. My family has also dealt with mental health problems of a different kind, so I understand a bit of how that feels. My mother and father are together, and they are a great example for me of a successful relationship and marriage. They are also teaching me how to be responsible with money and emphasizing how important education is to my future.

 

- Childhood: Poverty. Very little money. As a result, they know a lot about state and federal programs that support needy people with financial aid. (I'm hoping to learn about them from them. For one, his mom says there is somewhere you can go to get assistance with housing costs if you say you no longer have your parents' support financially; I am very interested in learning more about this and possibly moving out of the house this year!) He had to live in homeless shelters or on the street at times along with his family members. He grew up in Hollywood; I think it was west Hollywood. He's a real city boy. He loves the attractions of the city, like nightlife, and knows all sorts of places to go out. He prides himself on being "street smart". In that way, I could really learn a lot from him. To end on a positive note about his childhood, he really grew into a fantastic, mature man, and has a lot of personality and interesting history behind him. It will make great stories someday!

Comparison to me: I have never had to worry about having food on the table or a roof over my head; my father is well-paid, with a steady job, and we have never been in comparable want. I have had more of a steady life and home. My family has always been there supporting me. I have lived in the same house for all my life; we have had no need to move. I had a quieter, less chaotic childhood. I was a very, very shy child, which I have a hunch was the opposite of what he was like. That would be a good question to ask him, though-- what were you like as a child? Well, as I said, he was an angry kid, sometimes disrespectful to authority figures, and often acting extremely independently for his age. He talks of being on his own on the streets of Los Angeles when he was eight years old. I have been much more controlled by my parents and never, ever had that same freedom as he did. Even now he is blown away by how little freedom my parents give me at my age. They did a great job protecting me when I was younger, but I think it's time to step out of their protective bubble, since I'm fully capable of taking care of myself.

 

- Socialization: He was raised to be very outgoing and social. He is full of energy, and tries to transfer that energy to others around him through interaction. He sometimes has trouble relaxing, always feeling like he has to be on the alert. He has told me that I relax him, though, and he likes that about me. Maybe we're just compatible that way!

Comparison to me: I was a very quiet, obedient, and shy kid when I was little. I never got in fights like he did; part of that is my environment, and part of that is probably just being a girl. I'm just a very patient and agreeable person, which helps me get along with a wide variety of people, including him. I can handle his bursts of energy no problem.

 

Overall, we are very different people, but as they say, "Opposites attract." These factors TOTALLY affect our dynamics today.

 

About the girl he's sad over, he has admitted to me that he believes that things will never be the same between them as friends. That's progress that he is coming to understand that, at least. I hope he moves on to completely let go of her, because she doesn't care at all about him and his feelings. She even went to the police to get him to leave her alone, which really hurt his feelings. I don't know how serious the whole thing was or how clingy he was being, but apparently she felt it was necessary. I've personally never felt uncomfortable with him; he always emphasized that I never had to do anything I was uncomfortable with. He deserves better. He should find someone who cares.

 

 

Okay, anyway, how do I know that it's an OFFICIAL date? He calls it official? We're going out this Friday for dancing, possibly bringing along a couple friends (looking forward to seeing how publicly affectionate he is in front of friends!), but I'm not sure if that's really an "official" date. He paid for me for dinner and a few alcoholic drinks for our last date on Sunday, even giving me some money for the bus because I was broke (see, guy, I have money issues too! =]). I had a good, romantic time, anyway. It was nice. He can be very thoughtful and fun.

 

Romantically, he has in fact made some gestures in that fashion. He has held my hand on a few separate occasions. We had a nice (free) date in the park one day which was really nice, and I enjoyed that. The most recent date was last Sunday. He has no problem staying close and touching a leg, shoulder, or whatever. In the case of last Sunday, he was a real gentleman and held my arm and hand to help steady me while we walked together back to his place, because I was drunk. (If anyone's curious, it seems like I'm a happy drunk; I was cracking up the whole time! Haha!) He is also willing to have good conversations with me and help us get to know each other. We enjoy spending time together! Finally, as much as he enjoys sex, it isn't the be-all and end-all to him. He can live without it when necessary. He even told me that he spent two years with no physical intimacy waiting for the other girl to be comfortable with it; unfortunately (or fortunately for me ), she never was. In fact, it's been at least four months that we've been very close physically, and only in the last month have we gotten into the realm of sex. He was my first kiss, and he took my virginity as well. This is meaningful.

Edited September 22, 2010 by GooseChaser

[GooseChaser]

A doormat has sex with a guy she likes but who doesn't like her back and actually tells her he's not attracted to her, just horny.

 

Are you a doormat, Goose?

I don't consider myself a doormat, no. It can be hard to think objectively and see that in yourself, though. I don't think I am, but maybe I exhibit some qualities of a doormat. That's something I have to work on. Keep in mind I am young, inexperienced, and have much to learn.

[GooseChaser]

Oh, I've met his mom a few times. She's super-nice, hospitable, and treated me like a member of the family the morning after I stayed over at their place for the night. She was nice enough to offer to make me oatmeal for breakfast, and a great sandwich for lunch too. She told me I could stay over as long as I wanted. I also had a great conversation with her before I left. She must hear good things about me from her son? She seems to like me. REALLY good sign! She also told me that she supported her son and I in our being involved, and doesn't mind if I come over sometimes. Seems like she wouldn't mind if we got in a relationship someday, either! Maybe she would even root for me as a potential partner to him! If I had her vocal support that way, it would definitely be significant! That would be amazing! He respects his mother, and if she really likes me, that is a really, really good thing.

Edited September 22, 2010 by GooseChaser

[GooseChaser]

Interesting quote from this article: http://sammypacker.tripod.com/signs.html

 

[COLOR=#ff3300]He says you're just friends but that means a lot more to a guy. If he wants to be your boyfriend he will be that 24/7 friend and a good shoulder to cry on. If you want to give him a friendly hug he is still being close to you and he will enjoy it. [/COLOR]

[Els]

You are getting your hopes FAR too high for this to be what you claim is just 'using someone for fun', GC.... And you are thinking about it too much!!! Just look at how many words you've written about this guy!! This does not tie in with what you're saying about 'taking it easy and enjoying it, it'll be fine either way'.

 

And do you really want to be with someone who decides to be with you because mommy likes you?!?

[GooseChaser]

You are getting your hopes FAR too high for this to be what you claim is just 'using someone for fun', GC.... And you are thinking about it too much!!! Just look at how many words you've written about this guy!! This does not tie in with what you're saying about 'taking it easy and enjoying it, it'll be fine either way'.

 

And do you really want to be with someone who decides to be with you because mommy likes you?!?

See, I would like if he wanted more, but if that isn't what he wants, I can play around once or twice more, but it will NOT last long at all as a non-dating FWB scenario. I can't waste my time and youth that way!

 

It wouldn't hurt if her approval helped him consider it more seriously. It can only help being on his mom's good side, and I consider myself fortunate for that. I'm not complaining!

Edited September 22, 2010 by GooseChaser

[GooseChaser]

Could he be commitment-phobic right now because of baggage from his experience and rejection by the other girl? Could he just need more time to get over that? I can act more distant and less interested, avoid sex (preferring other ways of getting to know each other), and give him all of the space he needs; could that bring him around?

Edited September 22, 2010 by GooseChaser

[PixieStix]

Could he be commitment-phobic right now because of baggage from his experience and rejection by the other girl? Could he just need more time to get over that? I can act more distant and less interested, avoid sex (preferring other ways of getting to know each other), and give him all of the space he needs; could that bring him around?

 

Honestly, could you be any more delusional? We have told you over and over he is using you for no strings sex, when are you going to get it? You never take any of the advice here, why keep asking?

[Mme. Chaucer]

See, I would like if he wanted more, but if that isn't what he wants, I can play around once or twice more, but it will NOT last long at all as a non-dating FWB scenario. I can't waste my time and youth that way!

 

It wouldn't hurt if her approval helped him consider it more seriously. It can only help being on his mom's good side, and I consider myself fortunate for that. I'm not complaining!

 

I think this is the 3rd or 4th time you've said this in this thread, but you keep it up.

 

If you truly are 100% cheery about this and not at all liable to be hurt, I guess there's no problem. I have trouble believing that you really are that way, though. How can someone really have feelings for another and be just fine with being discounted and used as a convenience? If you were, why would you be posting here about it? Why not just play away and then when he's really done with you, just move on to whatever's next?

 

Are you being honest with yourself?

[GooseChaser]

Yep, if that's how he really feels! I can give up on a relationship with him if he isn't willing to consider it. His loss!

 

Anyway, I have two people now besides him who seem to be showing interest in me, and I have a feeling at least one of them would want more than FWB, so I have nothing to worry about. If I want, I can just forget about seeking or getting into a relationship for this year, just have fun and get through my last year at my community college, exhaust the FWB relationship or progress naturally into a real relationship (haha, seems unlikely), and go and meet new people at my four-year university! It is an extremely strong school, by the way, and so there are bound to be some awesome guys there! I'm looking forward to it!

 

By the way, everyone, stop calling me delusional. I don't care if it's true or not. It's rude.

Edited September 22, 2010 by GooseChaser

[Els]

Yep, if that's how he really feels! I can give up on a relationship with him if he isn't willing to consider it. His loss!

 

Anyway, I have two people now besides him who seem to be showing interest in me, and I have a feeling at least one of them would want more than FWB, so I have nothing to worry about. If I want, I can just forget about seeking or getting into a relationship for this year, just have fun and get through my last year at my community college, exhaust the FWB relationship or progress naturally into a real relationship (haha, seems unlikely), and go and meet new people at my four-year university! It is an extremely strong school, by the way, and so there are bound to be some awesome guys there! I'm looking forward to it!

 

By the way, everyone, stop calling me delusional. I don't care if it's true or not. It's rude.

 

Oh, GC. If you can just forget about it, why can you not stop thinking and posting about this guy and coming up with 101 reasons why it 'might' work, why you might be good together, why he might be interested but not ready yet and it's up to you to show him etc etc??? People who are all casual about FWB situations do not act like this.

[LisaLee]

Goose, about the delusional thing... they don't mean to be rude, there is truth in it. You are deluding yourself, in very serious denial. You have put so much time, effort, thought into this guy that when the split up happens (and it will happen) you will be devastated. You won't be jumping back up for a while.

[GooseChaser]

Thank you for your thoughts, everyone! I think this thread has gone on long enough, and I've gotten plenty of great advice! I never imagined it would go on for this long or catch so much attention and support! I'll keep your advice in mind as I make my decisions on how to handle this. Thank you all for your time and for clearly caring about my welfare! Now it's up to me!

 

Opinions of all sorts are still welcome.