Ugh, feel used... :(

[Stockalone]

Also, part of who I am at this moment in time is emotionally unhealthy, so do I really want to be with a guy who is attracted to that? That's the problem -- I need a guy who is emotionally healthy and wants an emotionally healthy woman. But I'm not emotionally healthy.

 

Obviously, being emotionally unhealthy is a huge hindrance, but I also believe two "unhealthy" people can help each other grow and be stronger together than on their own. And they can be genuinely happy together. It worked for me once and I know it would work again.

 

That said, I can certainly see why the general consenus is that looking for an emotionally healthy partner is a safer bet. I wouldn't recommend looking for an unhealthy partner either.

 

Being emotionally unhealthy at the moment is not a death sentence in the dating world, though. Many people won't date you, so you'll have to work harder than other people, but a relationship always requires teamwork.

 

 

 

After having thought about this more and reading your replies, I believe one problem with this guy was that you threw all caution to the wind because he was hot and because he seemed like a good match on paper.

 

I am sure you liked him on paper (his profile), and grew to like him based on the e-mail or IM exchanges you had before meeting in person. That probably made his hotness even more appealing to you.

 

This doesn't happen often to you, so you try too hard, as well as having to fight the (almost crippling) anxiety and nervousness. I can understand that, as I have basically the same issues.

 

But were there other things? Did he make you laugh, playfully tease you? Did you genuinely feel relaxed, entertained or understood at any time?

 

You know, all those things that come naturally with some people and are a lot of fun, but never develop with others. Was there anything there, that was not caused by or related to something physical?

 

I believe you focused on the wrong things here. Giving a guy the benefit of the doubt is usually a noble trait. A guy can be nervous too, not be able to show how smart he is, etc., especially if he is shy. Looking at potential isn't inherently wrong IMO, but it can't be the only thing to focus on.

 

That said, I think when this happens, taking things slow is important. You need to make sure that the online perception you have gotten and his real life appearance eventually match. One or two dates are usually not enough to determine that.

 

Getting along online doesn't have to translate into being a good match in real life. Spending time together will reduce nervousness, anxiety and awkwardness. If it doesn't, then you probably aren't a good match.

 

That's why it is so important for me to get to know someone before the physical aspects of a relationship come into play and make a rational judgement much more difficult.

[Kamille]

Would you mind elaborating on this? It's exactly what I want to do.

 

That's a good question. It's a tough one because it's been one of the toughest lessons of my life. I spent the last few hours drafting this answer. I'm so glad to read the thread, how it has evolved and how you've taken yourself in your own hands. Very proud of you.

 

Shadow, I don't think you realize how many people here are rooting for you. I've been overt about it in the past and I'll be overt again: I really like you! You have a space in my life. I've known you for the last few years. I think about you and what I need to tell you. Not just today, but often. I so want you to be happy. That's because I know you can be happy.

 

In all honesty, I learned to not get emotionally attached before establishing an emotional connection through trial and error. I made mistakes! I have done the exact same thing of you : having sex because I thought "ah well now this guy expects sex and if I don't he'll think poorly of me". It took me awhile to realize I was going it to myself. The guy using me, I was the one who wasn't asserting my own needs.

 

No man will ever fullfil your emotional needs until you start fulfilling your own emotional needs. How could they until you start telling them on how to do so? How can you communicate your emotional needs when you haven't figured them out yourself? Always make your emotional well-being your priority. You're the only person in your life you can consistently trust to do so.

 

I think you struggle with fulfilling your own emotional needs. You do not know how to be gentle with yourself. You are someone who is hard on herself. You spent a lot of time trying to prove your own belief that you're somehow inherently flawed. By binary opposition tells, this also means you also spend a lot time trying to prove that you are inherently extraordinary. Good news Shadow, the riddle is solved! You are both inherently flawed and inherently extraordinary! There is no longer a need to figure out which one it is. Just the need to accept your flaws while focusing on what makes you extraordinary! I bet those things that make you extraordinary are more often then not things that make you happy.

 

I think you struggle with fulfilling your own emotional needs because you are too hard on yourself. I suspect you might not even know what your emotional needs are. You spend plenty of time analyzing your flaws and deficiencies, and focus very little energy on your own qualities. Instead, you expect the outside world to validate those for you. You want the world to convince you that you're worthy of love.

 

____________________________

 

What I wrote earlier :

 

I struggle with assertiveness. I think you do too. Because of this, the best way for me to not get emotionally attached too fast is to keep the dates out of private spaces until I have established we have an emotional connection. That way, I don't find myself in situations where I have to say no to sex before I feel I'm ready.

 

The Kiss and Smile, mentioned in my thread, is a wonderful technique for keeping dates out of private places. It is enabled by public spaces: under the marquis of a cinema, at a metro station, on a front porch. All it takes to engage in the kiss and smile is that you thank your date for a lovely evening at your desired point of departure. The smile allows you to step back and wish him a goodnight.

 

Think about this image: a romantically lit New England front porch, a midnight kiss, a soft, "I had a great time! Good night!". A classical scene. Feels good, doesn't it? I can't think of a more blissful moment.

 

And remember: your boundaries are your boundaries. Men cannot guess what they are. If someone doesn't respect your boundaries, you tell them so. This is part of how you establish whether or not you're compatible with someone. Most communications on boundaries will go smoothly will the right guy. If someone on your front porch keeps insisting on sex after you nicely tell them twice that you're not ready, they aren't worth your time.

 

 

Note: People can only respect your boundaries if they know what they are.

 

So how do you learn how to assert your needs? Learn what it is that makes you happy. Focus on happiness. What do you do that makes you happy? When are you most relaxed? If you're angry and need to blow some steam... What do you do? Start doing the list of activities you come up with, on a regular basis. Make sure you do them when you're feeling anxious. You will soon realize that you have your own back. You will know how to take care of yourself. You will know how to assert your own needs.

[Kamille]

to add on to my last post, part of the difficulty for me in judging whether a guy is compatible is that I NEVER have rapport with somebody at the start.

 

Of course not. Compatibility is generally established over time. Even people who say they loved each other from the first day had to figure out whether or not they were compatible... And even that took more than one day.

 

I can build a rapport with almost anyone who has some common ground with me.

 

How long does establishing rapport usually take when you share a common ground with someone?

[SadandConfusedWA]

That's a good question. It's a tough one because it's been one of the toughest lessons of my life. I spent the last few hours drafting this answer. I'm so glad to read the thread, how it has evolved and how you've taken yourself in your own hands. Very proud of you.

 

Shadow, I don't think you realize how many people here are rooting for you. I've been overt about it in the past and I'll be overt again: I really like you! You have a space in my life. I've known you for the last few years. I think about you and what I need to tell you. Not just today, but often. I so want you to be happy. That's because I know you can be happy.

 

In all honesty, I learned to not get emotionally attached before establishing an emotional connection through trial and error. I made mistakes! I have done the exact same thing of you : having sex because I thought "ah well now this guy expects sex and if I don't he'll think poorly of me". It took me awhile to realize I was going it to myself. The guy using me, I was the one who wasn't asserting my own needs.

 

No man will ever fullfil your emotional needs until you start fulfilling your own emotional needs. How could they until you start telling them on how to do so? How can you communicate your emotional needs when you haven't figured them out yourself? Always make your emotional well-being your priority. You're the only person in your life you can consistently trust to do so.

 

I think you struggle with fulfilling your own emotional needs. You do not know how to be gentle with yourself. You are someone who is hard on herself. You spent a lot of time trying to prove your own belief that you're somehow inherently flawed. By binary opposition tells, this also means you also spend a lot time trying to prove that you are inherently extraordinary. Good news Shadow, the riddle is solved! You are both inherently flawed and inherently extraordinary! There is no longer a need to figure out which one it is. Just the need to accept your flaws while focusing on what makes you extraordinary! I bet those things that make you extraordinary are more often then not things that make you happy.

 

I think you struggle with fulfilling your own emotional needs because you are too hard on yourself. I suspect you might not even know what your emotional needs are. You spend plenty of time analyzing your flaws and deficiencies, and focus very little energy on your own qualities. Instead, you expect the outside world to validate those for you. You want the world to convince you that you're worthy of love.

 

____________________________

 

What I wrote earlier :

 

I struggle with assertiveness. I think you do too. Because of this, the best way for me to not get emotionally attached too fast is to keep the dates out of private spaces until I have established we have an emotional connection. That way, I don't find myself in situations where I have to say no to sex before I feel I'm ready.

 

The Kiss and Smile, mentioned in my thread, is a wonderful technique for keeping dates out of private places. It is enabled by public spaces: under the marquis of a cinema, at a metro station, on a front porch. All it takes to engage in the kiss and smile is that you thank your date for a lovely evening at your desired point of departure. The smile allows you to step back and wish him a goodnight.

 

Think about this image: a romantically lit New England front porch, a midnight kiss, a soft, "I had a great time! Good night!". A classical scene. Feels good, doesn't it? I can't think of a more blissful moment.

 

And remember: your boundaries are your boundaries. Men cannot guess what they are. If someone doesn't respect your boundaries, you tell them so. This is part of how you establish whether or not you're compatible with someone. Most communications on boundaries will go smoothly will the right guy. If someone on your front porch keeps insisting on sex after you nicely tell them twice that you're not ready, they aren't worth your time.

 

 

Note: People can only respect your boundaries if they know what they are.

 

So how do you learn how to assert your needs? Learn what it is that makes you happy. Focus on happiness. What do you do that makes you happy? When are you most relaxed? If you're angry and need to blow some steam... What do you do? Start doing the list of activities you come up with, on a regular basis. Make sure you do them when you're feeling anxious. You will soon realize that you have your own back. You will know how to take care of yourself. You will know how to assert your own needs.

 

Wow, brilliant response Kamille. This helps me a too as I face a lot of the same difficulties that Shadow does.

 

I think too that Shadow is extraordinary for many reasons. There are many people on LS that really like her, even after she has exposed all her vulnerabilities.

[Kamille]

Wow, brilliant response Kamille. This helps me a too as I face a lot of the same difficulties that Shadow does.

 

I think too that Shadow is extraordinary for many reasons. There are many people on LS that really like her, even after she has exposed all her vulnerabilities.

 

Thanks. Sorry for the messed up remnants of my many edits!

[SadandConfusedWA]

Thanks. Sorry for the messed up remnants of my many edits!

 

The fact that you have put so much time and thought into helping someone on LS really shows what type of person you are

[shadowplay]

Kamille, I can't tell you how much your thoughtful responses have meant to me, and this also goes for others. It almost brings a tear to my eye, knowing that you guys care. I regard you, and several other posters on here, (SAC, Spookie, TBF, etc.) as friends. I really like you too! I wish you guys lived closer to me.

 

It sucks that I'm able to make these bonds with people online, but I have so much trouble forging the same connections in real life. To a lesser extent this was also true with the guy I dated. I had a much easier time connecting to him online where I could express myself without inhibition.

 

I so want you to be happy. That's because I know you can be happy.

 

 

Thank you, I really hope you're right.

 

 

How can you communicate your emotional needs when you haven't figured them out yourself? Always make your emotional well-being your priority. You're the only person in your life you can consistently trust to do so.

 

 

I always swallow deeply when I read something like this. I know it's true, but I fear that I can't make myself happy, because I'll never figure out what it is that I need. It's such a daunting task -- figuring this out -- that I guess I avoid it and focus on guys as a way of comforting myself. Sometimes I feel like an empty shell of a person. Even my life is kind of empty, though it's improved somewhat.

 

My room in my apartment is kind of symbolic of that. It's barren. There are no pictures on the wall, no furniture. In my last place where I was living over the summer, I didn't even bother taking my stuff out of my boxes or really buying furniture. I think it's a combination of laziness and lack of caring. It's like I think, why bother making my place nice. It won't make me feel any better. It feels like a chore, where other people derive pleasure from making their place nice and homey. I guess I feel like if I spent time improving my room, I'd just be avoiding the things I really need to do (creative stuff, my work, whatever), and I'd still feel empty after I finished doing it. It's like by decorating my room I feel like I'd be just dressing up my inner emptiness.

 

I can't seem to derive pleasure from anything, for years. I know people go through periods of depression, but since the age of 13 nothing has really made me happy except spending time with a guy who returned my affection. I don't even know anymore what I'm passionate about. I thought film, but I don't know. Whenever I try to create or write anymore, I feel empty...like I have nothing to offer. I believe, or hope, that my true passion lies in something creative, because I know as a child I derived joy from creating and writing. But it's just theoretical at this point. Instead I'm just plagued by anxiety whenever I try to create.

 

So yeah, I have no clue how to fulfill my emotional needs. I have done a few really good things for myself. I moved into a much better place, made some social connections and at least one friend. But still I'm pretty depressed and adrift. I have yet to make a close friendship or feel a real bond with anyone who lives nearby. I've been avoiding working on my thesis because of that lack of inspiration whenever I create. But I know I have to.

 

I'm hoping that somehow just going through the motions of trying things that make other people happy but now seem like a chore (decorating my room, learning how to cook rather than grabbing easy meals) will improve my well-being. Eventually something will feel natural and pleasurable. Right now it's all theoretical.

 

There are some things that make me happy in the moment, but they're all healthy and compulsive. Eating junk food. I use food as comfort. My eating had improved when I was seeing a nutritionist regularly, but at some point I missed an appointment or two and stopped going. Then I started up at the restaurant where I was surrounded by pastries. The only other thing in my life that I enjoy right now is honestly LS. How sad is that. I love writing and reading on it. While it can be very helpful and enlightening, I probably spend too much time on it, and I should cut my time down to only writing things that will be productive...like my self reflections in this thread and my responses to other people's insights. I think I overuse LS as an emotional crutch. In general, I'm pretty impulsive, and have trouble delaying gratification because I don't believe that I can attain longer term, deeper gratification from things that don't feel good in the moment. It's like the rules that apply to others don't to me. I know that's erroneous thinking.

 

 

Because of this, the best way for me to not get emotionally attached too fast is to keep the dates out of private spaces until I have established we have an emotional connection. That way, I don't find myself in situations where I have to say no to sex before I feel I'm ready.

 

 

Sounds like a good plan, but it means I will need to learn to establish an emotional connection without any form of physical intimacy. This isn't something I've ever done before with a guy, so it may be a struggle.

 

 

The Kiss and Smile, mentioned in my thread, is a wonderful technique for keeping dates out of private places. It is enabled by public spaces: under the marquis of a cinema, at a metro station, on a front porch. All it takes to engage in the kiss and smile is that you thank your date for a lovely evening at your desired point of departure. The smile allows you to step back and wish him a goodnight.

 

I'll try this out.

 

Btw, I can't believe I'm still able to feel the emotional attachment I do this guy after only two dates and after he rejected me. It must be that I saw him as some hopeful exit from my loneliness. Whichever guy I happen to be fixated on at the moment always seems to hold the key to long term happiness, and whenever he rejects me, it's like he's choosing to leave me behind and I'll never reach it on my own. I know that's unhealthy thinking.

 

I was in the grocery store with my roommates and "Fools Rush In" by Elvis came on. I guess it was that moment when I realized how hurt I was by this rejection. I immediately thought of him, and longed for him to feel that kind of unbridled love for me, and wondered if a guy I liked ever would. When feelings like this come bubbling up, I never know how to challenge them or nip them in the bud.

 

I don't want to be emotionally bound anymore to people who don't care about me.

 

OK, writing this has inspired me to spend the rest of the day doing good things for myself. I'll report back to you guys on my progress.

 

Thanks you so much again, Kamille (and others). It really means a lot to me.

[shadowplay]

The fact that you have put so much time and thought into helping someone on LS really shows what type of person you are

 

Kamille is one of the sweetest people I've ever gotten to know. I'd say "met" but I don't know if you can say that about someone you've online known online.

 

Btw, this brings up an interesting point. People say that you can't really know somebody until you've met them in person, which I agree with to an extent, but I'm starting to wonder if sometimes you can know somebody better by having deeper conversations with them online than you can by more superficial interactions in real life. People are less inhibited in line, and they can spend more time expressing themselves.

[Land Shark]

Btw, I can't believe I'm still able to feel the emotional attachment I do this guy after only two dates and after he rejected me. It must be that I saw him as some hopeful exit from my loneliness.

 

No. You have no emotional attachment to him. You don't even know him. It's just your ego not liking the fact that someone you tried to get close to didn't respond by allowing you. It's not a need for him. It's a need for what you were trying to get him to provide. When he didn't the natural response is to try to fix the failure by somehow turning it into a success. You would have this same response no matter who the guy was. You can even have it towards guys you aren't all that interested in, if they reject you in some way.

[shadowplay]

Btw, the guy who was "second in line" on OKC has asked me out to a date mid week. We haven't made firm plans, because I'm undecided about whether I'm ready. I should push myself, but I also don't want to derail myself from school by turning this into another obsession. Then again, maybe it will take my focus off of the first guy and help me gain experience.

[Star Gazer]

People say that you can't really know somebody until you've met them in person, which I agree with to an extent, but I'm starting to wonder if sometimes you can know somebody better by having deeper conversations with them online than you can by more superficial interactions in real life. People are less inhibited in line, and they can spend more time expressing themselves.

 

I agree completely.

 

I also agree that Kamille is pretty extraordinary.

[Kamille]

The fact that you have put so much time and thought into helping someone on LS really shows what type of person you are

 

It shows how much I care for Shadow and my friends on LS. I would really love to see you and Shadow enjoy your love lives, be it dating, being in a relationship or taking time off the scene to be gloriously single.

[shadowplay]

Btw, the guy who was "second in line" on OKC has asked me out to a date mid week. We haven't made firm plans, because I'm undecided about whether I'm ready. I should push myself, but I also don't want to derail myself from school by turning this into another obsession. Then again, maybe it will take my focus off of the first guy and help me gain experience.

 

Btw, this is a guy I've talked to a fair amount but I was unsure about. He's a PhD robotics engineer, and seems fairly smart from our conversations. Also cute (though not like the other guy). And he's easy to talk to. I guess I was worried he seemed a bit boring, but it's hard to say. He's definitely worth meeting. I just don't know if I'm ready given what happened with this other guy.

[Kamille]

Ah shucks. Since we're all having a full house moment:

 

Do you guys know what the yoga salutation "Namaste" means?

 

"The good in me salutes the good in you".

 

Isn't that inspiring?

[Land Shark]

I just had a tear in my eye.

[SadandConfusedWA]

 

Btw, this brings up an interesting point. People say that you can't really know somebody until you've met them in person, which I agree with to an extent, but I'm starting to wonder if sometimes you can know somebody better by having deeper conversations with them online than you can by more superficial interactions in real life. People are less inhibited in line, and they can spend more time expressing themselves.

 

I also agree with this. I am more open on LS than I am with anyone in my real life, including my mum with whom I talk every day. I am also pretty confident that I would really connect with people I click with on here in real life too.

[that girl]

Most of the angles to this thing have already been covered, but this stood out to me

 

I said, "I don't know if I want to go any further right now." He said, "OK" but sounded disappointed. Then I realized how blockheaded this was, since I would come off as a huge tease. So a few minutes later while we were kissing more I said, "do you have a condom?" He said he did in his dresser, and I said "maybe we can for just a bit." WTF? I don't know what I was thinking. I guess I felt obliged to have sex at that point

You were way too worried about coming off as a tease or somehow dissapointing this guy.

 

Getting naked with a guy you don't plan on sleeping with isn't a great idea safety wise, but a decent guy isn't going to blow you off because you got naked with him and didn't sleep with him. He's just going to be happy you got naked with him.

 

You shouldn't sleep with someone just because you feel like he will be dissapointed if you don't. It isn't healthy and it won't make you happy.

 

I can't seem to derive pleasure from anything, for years. I know people go through periods of depression, but since the age of 13 nothing has really made me happy except spending time with a guy who returned my affection.

I really hope you are in therapy.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I can't seem to derive pleasure from anything, for years. I know people go through periods of depression, but since the age of 13 nothing has really made me happy except spending time with a guy who returned my affection.

 

This is exactly how I feel and I know it sounds sort of pathetic. I have had some success at work, yet it felt empty. I know I would trade it all in a second if I could find a guy that returns my affection and wants to be with me.

 

There is really nothing else that brings me true pleasure, except maybe reading and posting on LS.

[Kamille]

 

 

My room in my apartment is kind of symbolic of that. It's barren. There are no pictures on the wall, no furniture. In my last place where I was living over the summer, I didn't even bother taking my stuff out of my boxes or really buying furniture. I think it's a combination of laziness and lack of caring. It's like I think, why bother making my place nice. It won't make me feel any better. It feels like a chore, where other people derive pleasure from making their place nice and homey. I guess I feel like if I spent time improving my room, I'd just be avoiding the things I really need to do (creative stuff, my work, whatever), and I'd still feel empty after I finished doing it. It's like by decorating my room I feel like I'd be just dressing up my inner emptiness.

 

 

Virginia Woolf had this much figured out: you need a room of your own. A place you call home, where you feel relaxed and where you like to hang out. This can be your physical room or it can be a cafe you go to when you want to write. It's anywhere you feel serene and inspired.

[shadowplay]

Btw, I'm pretty sure he blocked me on im, because he no longer shows up as online (where before he was always on). I'm sorry, but whether he used me or not, I still think he's a d%ck, especially after I sent him that apology and asked him to get back to me either way. It's really not right for a guy to just blow a girl off right after he has sex with her in a non ONS context without at least a polite message saying he's no longer interested. Especially if he spent a lot of time getting to know her before meeting, and if he knows she has feelings for him, which I made pretty clear in my apology. I know I made some really stupid mistakes, and I can understand why he lost interest, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that he ignored my messages and then blocked me right after we got intimate.

Edited September 12, 2010 by shadowplay

[SadandConfusedWA]

Btw, I'm pretty sure he blocked me on im, because he no longer shows up as online (where before he was always on). I'm sorry, but whether he used me or not, I still think he's a d%ck, especially after I sent him that apology and asked him to get back to me either way. It's really not right for a guy to just blow a girl off right after he has sex with her in a non ONS context without at least a polite message saying he's no longer interested. Especially if he spent a lot of time getting to know her before meeting, and if he knows she has feelings for him, which I made pretty clear in my apology. I know I made some really stupid mistakes, and I can understand why he lost interest, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that he ignored my messages and then blocked me right after we got intimate.

 

Shadow, I absolutely agree with this. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but if he really doesn't contact you in the next few days, then I fully agree that he is in fact a complete D%CK and no great loss at all He has zero compassion.

[shadowplay]

Shadow, I absolutely agree with this. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but if he really doesn't contact you in the next few days, then I fully agree that he is in fact a complete D%CK and no great loss at all He has zero compassion.

 

actually, as a recall "less compassionate than average" was one of his personality traits generated by the OKC algorithms. At the time I dismissed it, but maybe there's a grain of truth there...

[SadandConfusedWA]

At least you can take solace in knowing that your mistakes haven't lost you a great guy. If that is the way he treats girls after getting to know them and being intimate, I can't imagine him being a good boyfriend to ANYONE.

 

I checked the personality tests he did when I looked at his profile ages ago, and interestingly enough he has the exact same dating personality type as that politician guy. There are 16 types, what are the odds of that? Among other things, test says that they prioritize sex over love and tend to put this facade of being sensitive and caring just to get sex. I also dismissed that test as being "silly" at the time.

[shadowplay]

At least you can take solace in knowing that your mistakes haven't lost you a great guy. If that is the way he treats girls after getting to know them and being intimate, I can't imagine him being a good boyfriend to ANYONE.

 

I checked the personality tests he did when I looked at his profile ages ago, and interestingly enough he has the exact same dating personality type as that politician guy. There are 16 types, what are the odds of that? Among other things, test says that they prioritize sex over love and tend to put this facade of being sensitive and caring just to get sex. I also dismissed that test as being "silly" at the time.

 

no way! I didn't notice that.

[shadowplay]

I'm reading his dating type now, and omg, this seems exactly like him :

 

you’d meet for coffee, or talk about books/movies, or even argue a little bit, all the while mostly preferring to screw.

 

you’re not thinking too much about Love at this point in your life...