He wont marry me after 7 straight years

[datura_noir]

I'm going to be the wet blanket here for some..

 

My now H and I were living together for nearly ten years w/o marriage. It always bothered me! About six years in, he gave me an engagement ring, and announced to his family that it was just that.

 

Three years later, he had an Affair. I was devastated.

 

His lack of willingness to commit led him to explore another while I held down the home. When I discovered the A, I moved out, told him he knew where to find me if he got his crap straight, and left.

 

My condition on returning was that we would work together openly on our issues, and MARRY. If not, I said that that I would gladly go.

 

He surprised me by being the most romantic and resolute man in the months leading up to our wedding. He got all into the plans, the rings, the dinner, etc...

 

If you draw that line in the sand, you will know where you stand. So will he. He will either step up, or cut loose. In which case, he really wasn't worth your time anyway.

[datura_noir]

A family is created regardless of a marriage. In fact the institution of marriage causes broken families more often than not.

 

Many couples who would otherwise continue to stay together and raise children in a stable and loving environment split because marriage brings false expectations and the ability to effortlessly rob someone else of their current and future earnings.

 

 

 

Wedding vows are completely meaningless. You can't seriously believe that there is any true purpose to saying them? Traditionally a woman vows she will "Honor and Obey" her husband. You plan to live up to that one?

 

All the things marriage provides are readily available outside the institution of marriage.

 

 

The word "obey" is not included in any modern wedding ceremony I have attended in my life. Maybe in very fundamental religions, but I personally have never heard it, and I've been to many.

 

The vows are important; they mean something when they are meant from the heart. If you don't like them, you can always write your own!

[Stung]

 

Many couples who would otherwise continue to stay together and raise children in a stable and loving environment split because marriage brings false expectations and the ability to effortlessly rob someone else of their current and future earnings.

 

Wedding vows are completely meaningless. You can't seriously believe that there is any true purpose to saying them? Traditionally a woman vows she will "Honor and Obey" her husband. You plan to live up to that one?

.

 

Many couples who would otherwise stay together and raise children break up because of many, many reasons. I'm sorry that your marriage was unpleasant for you and I have no quibble with your apparent desire to never marry again, but just because you felt no difference in commitment and the symbolism meant nothing to you, that doesn't mean that others feelings are invalid just because they're not perfectly aligned with yours.

 

My vows were certainly not meaningless, nor did I vow to obey my husband for the rest of our lives. We vowed to respect each other, to put each other ahead of others, to try to to make each other laugh, to work hard side by side to build a future and family together, and we damn well have been living up to our vows.

 

And FYI, if we should ever divorce, which I certainly hope never happens, any child support either of us might end up paying the other would be for the care and education of the human being we created together and are responsible for--not some kind of criminal perpetual burglary for the sheer joy of going through the court system and plundering each other's capital.

[Untouchable_Fire]

The word "obey" is not included in any modern wedding ceremony I have attended in my life. Maybe in very fundamental religions, but I personally have never heard it, and I've been to many.

The vows are important; they mean something when they are meant from the heart. If you don't like them, you can always write your own!

 

It doesn't matter if you use the traditional or write your own. If you vow to forsake all others... is that enforceable in any way? Nope! So how is a vow any different from reading a poem?

 

Do you even remember your vows? How well have you kept them so far?

 

Many couples who would otherwise stay together and raise children break up because of many, many reasons. I'm sorry that your marriage was unpleasant for you and I have no quibble with your apparent desire to never marry again, but just because you felt no difference in commitment and the symbolism meant nothing to you, that doesn't mean that others feelings are invalid just because they're not perfectly aligned with yours.

My vows were certainly not meaningless, nor did I vow to obey my husband for the rest of our lives. We vowed to respect each other, to put each other ahead of others, to try to to make each other laugh, to work hard side by side to build a future and family together, and we damn well have been living up to our vows.

And FYI, if we should ever divorce, which I certainly hope never happens, any child support either of us might end up paying the other would be for the care and education of the human being we created together and are responsible for--not some kind of criminal perpetual burglary for the sheer joy of going through the court system and plundering each other's capital.

 

I find it interesting that you didn't vow to love one another. There might be some wisdom in that.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that your wrong to put some kind of value on the system of marriage. My point is that if you really love someone marriage doesn't matter.

 

In my opinion the OP's ultimatum just shows that she doesn't love him, and that she is more interested in having a slip of paper than being with him.

 

BTW... I also hope you never get divorced! Your a very nice lady, and though we often have our differences... I really respect your overall opinions.

[Itsmeyouknow]

I'm the original poster, so thanks for your comments. To answer some of your questions :

 

I'm 26 and he is 29. I really wasn't ready to get married until about last year and thats when I really started talking about it. Although, this week is the first time I really questioned him about it. He does talk about details of the wedding with me sometimes like what the cake would look like, whose comming, where its happening...that I kind of stuff.

 

Also, I let him no my intentions 2 days after we started dating. I told him I was looking for a seriouse realationship that could leave to getting married and kids. He said ok.

 

As for the financial situation, he does pay most of the bills, although I pay some as well. Because of him, we moved around a lot so I always had to find a new job and would be out of work.

 

Yesterday morning I asked him "if I proposed to you what would you say" he said yes. Later I asked him if that would be okay and he said it would be a bit humiliating.

 

I want to to wait a day before I bring it up again. But I think the following day I'm going to bring it up in a different way. Instead of saying "When do you want to marry me", and asking him a bunch of questions...I'm going to talk about me and say "I've been on the marriage topic lately, because...." and "I'm nervouse about''.

 

What do you think?

[atlnay]

A smart guy is going to figure out your angle. At this point any discussion on marriage isn't trivial to you and he knows that. After 7 years with him, you should be able to discuss rationally the prospect of marriage & he should be able to express himself honestly with no fears of an emotional reaction. I'll ask again, and puting the fact that he is the love of yourself aside, OP, why do you really WANT to get married? You don't have to reveal it here, but really, why? The 7 years in? Bio clock tickin? Peer pressure? Think you will lose him, if not? When you were 5 you just knew by now you would be? You have a reason(s) why. You need to figure that all out BEFORE you broach the topic with him again, I am guessing you will really soon. Once you have your reasons on paper, then you can take that to him and say here is all the valid reasons I want to marry.

[xxoo]

I want to to wait a day before I bring it up again. But I think the following day I'm going to bring it up in a different way. Instead of saying "When do you want to marry me", and asking him a bunch of questions...I'm going to talk about me and say "I've been on the marriage topic lately, because...." and "I'm nervouse about''.

 

What do you think?

 

Talking about your honest feelings, wants, and needs is definitely the right thing to do. But be direct. No hinting, no tiptoeing. Leave no doubt what is going through your heart and your mind.

[Angel1111]

Once you have your reasons on paper, then you can take that to him and say here is all the valid reasons I want to marry.

 

When a woman finds herself in the position of giving a guy 'valid reasons' as to why they should marry, it's time to walk. This is NOT a discussion I would ever have with a man.

[Angel1111]

I'm the original poster, so thanks for your comments. To answer some of your questions :

 

I'm 26 and he is 29. I really wasn't ready to get married until about last year and thats when I really started talking about it. Although, this week is the first time I really questioned him about it. He does talk about details of the wedding with me sometimes like what the cake would look like, whose comming, where its happening...that I kind of stuff.

 

Also, I let him no my intentions 2 days after we started dating. I told him I was looking for a seriouse realationship that could leave to getting married and kids. He said ok.

 

As for the financial situation, he does pay most of the bills, although I pay some as well. Because of him, we moved around a lot so I always had to find a new job and would be out of work.

 

Yesterday morning I asked him "if I proposed to you what would you say" he said yes. Later I asked him if that would be okay and he said it would be a bit humiliating.

 

I want to to wait a day before I bring it up again. But I think the following day I'm going to bring it up in a different way. Instead of saying "When do you want to marry me", and asking him a bunch of questions...I'm going to talk about me and say "I've been on the marriage topic lately, because...." and "I'm nervouse about''.

 

What do you think?

 

Based on what you're saying here, I think your bf is bright enough to understand that you want to get married now and it really doesn't sound like he's all that opposed to it. I think now that you have expressed that you want to get married, give it some time - like until the end of the year, or until after Valentine's of next year. That way, your anniversary will have passed and so will all the major holidays. Sometimes guys like to propose at xmas or new year's.

 

I don't think it's smart to push this issue. He obviously wants to be the one to propose and he probably wants to surprise you. If he hasn't proposed by Valentine's, then sometime around March, let him know that you're planning to move out because you want to be with someone who's serious about marriage. For now, just sit back and see what happens. But under no circumstances do you need to justify why you want to get married. Please do not even consider going down that road.

[atlnay]

When a woman finds herself in the position of giving a guy 'valid reasons' as to why they should marry, it's time to walk.[/QUote] You have a point & in some settings it can come across as "pleading a case". In her world the desire to marry is now isnt mutual. I suggested that this OP do the writing it down exercise moreso for HER benefit. I suspect (and could be wayyyyy wrong) her reasons are more surface and have a LOT to do w/investing 7 years in and her age vs. what may be realistic for her situation. I was also hoping by her writing it down, she may see that & table the discussion. And if not that, since she is now looking for roundabout ways to broach the topic, if she did come up with nonemotional reasons, this list will give her a more direct approach to having a mature conversation with him. If her tru reason is, "when i was 5 i knew i'd be married & now i'm an old maid", 7 yrs or not he has NO reason to marry her.

[xxoo]

There is a bigger issue to consider than marry/not marry. How well, and how honestly, do you communicate with your SO? How well, and how honestly, does he communicate with you?

 

You won't have a marriage worth having if the two of you can't communicate well. This marriage issue shouldn't be so difficult to talk about honestly. Once married (if you do marry him), there will be infinitely more issues that are difficult to be open and honest about. Avoiding the big conversations is what leads couples to drift and have affairs 10 or 20 years down the line.

 

Maybe consider this issue a "test" of the relationship. Not in the sense of "does he love me enough to marry me?", but in the sense of "do we have the relationship skills it takes to be married?" If you can not have a direct conversation with him, with direct feedback from him, the answer is probably "no".

[Itsmeyouknow]

from the original poster

 

Ok so I have a small update:

 

yesterday we were just talking about life insurance and I was saying who I wa going to make my beneficiary and he said when we are married it better be him. What do you make of that?

[Amira4210]

Hi, sorry you are going through this. Sounds like torture, torn between love and a future! This is why I am against living with someone before marriage! I mean seriously, you guys are already practically married, living together, eating sleeping paying bills sex together, all that! You are practically married, so its not like he is missing out on anything if he doesn't marry you, right? Unless he wants kids and you won't have them before marriage, then I don't see a reason why he would have to marry you. I'm sorry, not trying to be mean, but its just how I see it! IF you are basically married now and it doesn't work, you can just break up, instead of getting a DIVORCE and going through all the trouble with that! Good luck hunny!

[Art_Critic]

What do you make of that?

 

Just words to string you along.. telling you what you want to hear so the issue dissolves.

 

Do you have a ring on your finger yet ?.. till then it's all eye wash...

[Art_Critic]

IF you are basically married now and it doesn't work, you can just break up, instead of getting a DIVORCE and going through all the trouble with that! Good luck hunny!

 

Depending on the state or province they live in they may already be common law married and have to get a divorce anyhow.

 

Many states do recognize common law marriage, of those many of them say you have to have a child together or hold yourself out to be married to the public.. like call each other husband and wife... have joint accounts etc. etc...

[DaisyLeigh]

http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html

 

Actually, very few states recognize common-law marriage, and there are usually stipulations involved. So, merely living together will not automatically deem you common-law married.

 

To the OP: Good lord, woman. It has been 7 years. How much more time will you waste playing games and guessing about when he is going to pop the question?

[Art_Critic]

Depending on the state or province they live in they may already be common law married and have to get a divorce anyhow.

 

Many states do recognize common law marriage, of those many of them say you have to have a child together or hold yourself out to be married to the public.. like call each other husband and wife... have joint accounts etc. etc...

 

http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage-fact-sheet.html

 

Actually, very few states recognize common-law marriage, and there are usually stipulations involved. So, merely living together will not automatically deem you common-law married.

 

To the OP: Good lord, woman. It has been 7 years. How much more time will you waste playing games and guessing about when he is going to pop the question?

 

The link you provided has 16 states that do recolonize common law marriage, 7 of those use grandfathered laws and the other 9 fully support it.

 

I'm not sure if the OP mentioned if they were in the US or not but that is why I also mentioned provinces.

 

If the OP is in one of the states that does support it then it doesn't matter how many others don't

Edited September 15, 2010 by Art_Critic

[Angel1111]

from the original poster

 

Ok so I have a small update:

 

yesterday we were just talking about life insurance and I was saying who I wa going to make my beneficiary and he said when we are married it better be him. What do you make of that?

 

I repeat what I said earlier:

 

...I think your bf is bright enough to understand that you want to get married now and it really doesn't sound like he's all that opposed to it. I think now that you have expressed that you want to get married, give it some time - like until the end of the year, or until after Valentine's of next year. That way, your anniversary will have passed and so will all the major holidays. Sometimes guys like to propose at xmas or new year's.

 

I don't think it's smart to push this issue. He obviously wants to be the one to propose and he probably wants to surprise you. If he hasn't proposed by Valentine's, then sometime around March, let him know that you're planning to move out because you want to be with someone who's serious about marriage. For now, just sit back and see what happens. But under no circumstances do you need to justify why you want to get married. Please do not even consider going down that road.

[spartacus79]

This thread is hilarious. Judging by the responses it seems women can convince themselves of anything.

 

He pays her bills or most of them for seven years and he is not invested? Seriously? The jerk!

 

I also liked how the one poster defended marriage vows and how it is supposed to "make a deeper connection" and then stated she supports divorce.

 

One or the other. You cannot have both.

 

A man and two women give honest opinions about why this is and nobody wants to seem to listen to them even though they are logical.

 

Hilarious!

 

I will never marry. My friends will never marry and those that have been will never marry again. It is over ladies-no one wants to buy the cow anymore.

 

Enjoy your cats!

[Angel1111]

I will never marry.

 

That in itself is probably a great blessing.

[aerogurl87]

Most people want to be married. It's just such a one sided affair in terms of benefits that I don't think it's reasonable to expect a guy to do it. It's more than a little selfish and very unloving.

 

I think if OP really loved her guy this wouldn't be an issue. I think maybe he would be better off with someone who truly cared for him, and not someone who just wants something from him.

 

So if he wants kids and she doesn't he should just stick around out of "love"? This is why I say marriage and relationships in general take more than love to work. They also need people with similar goals in life, and since his goal isn't the same as hers, she needs to move on so she can find someone on a similar path as herself in life.

[Stung]

 

 

 

I find it interesting that you didn't vow to love one another. There might be some wisdom in that.

 

I'm not trying to tell you that your wrong to put some kind of value on the system of marriage. My point is that if you really love someone marriage doesn't matter.

 

In my opinion the OP's ultimatum just shows that she doesn't love him, and that she is more interested in having a slip of paper than being with him.

 

BTW... I also hope you never get divorced! Your a very nice lady, and though we often have our differences... I really respect your overall opinions.

 

 

For many people marriage doesn't matter, and if they don't get married that's as it should be. I have some very close friends, together a long time, who chose domestic partnership rather than marriage, and I respect the choice. I don't particularly believe that children need the structure of marriage, if each parent is dedicated and trustworthy. I have no religious ideas about marriage. Yet I do believe that my marriage matters, and my feelings are not invalid, nor does the fact that being married was important to my husband and I in any way invalidate our feelings for each other. It just means we feel that for US marriage is something very deep and meaningful that permeates almost every aspect of our lives--if it wasn't that way for you, that's cool. But if the OP's feelings are more aligned with my own, that's okay too, it doesn't mean she doesn't really love her boyfriend. It means she has different feelings and goals set inside a different framework than you do.

 

My husband and I weren't young, starry-eyed idealists when we married, but adults in our thirties with many years of dating and serious relationship history behind us. I had to go back and look at our vows. To paraphrase, we promised to respect and care for each other when loving each other was easy and when it was hard--so yes, love was in there. We just recognized going in that every marriage hits low spots and rough patches, that there would be times when we'd need to make conscious efforts to be thoughtful of each other, that we'd probably inevitably need a round of counseling or two at some point. Haven't gotten there yet but accept it as a probable, natural part of longterm deep commitment.

 

I am sorry your past has left you in emotional turmoil. Believe it or not I do know what that's like, and how difficult it can be to not paint everyone with the same brush. Thanks for your kind words--I often dont' agree with you, too, but that's not to illegitimize your own personal experience, it's because of what I see as your tendency to over-generalize negatively because of it.

[DaisyLeigh]

The link you provided has 16 states that do recolonize common law marriage, 7 of those use grandfathered laws and the other 9 fully support it.

 

I'm not sure if the OP mentioned if they were in the US or not but that is why I also mentioned provinces.

 

If the OP is in one of the states that does support it then it doesn't matter how many others don't

 

 

 

Exactly. Just trying to help. Not arguing.

 

However, I don't think that common law marriage should be recognized anywhere. Either you marry officially, or you do not. BUT, again, only my opinion.

[spartacus79]

That in itself is probably a great blessing.

 

 

Your reply has helped to prove my point. Your tone really does say it all. Thanks!

 

No wife, no mortgage,no debt, freedom and peace and quiet- believe me I am the one laughing all the way to the bank. If I want female company I can get it and if she gets tiring I can always find a new one. Life is good.

 

Marriage in this day and age is for suckers. IMHO

 

 

Why would I want to be legally bound to anyone? Why would I want to invite the government into my life further so I can be raked over the coals later when cupcake changes her mind about the marriage? More than 50 percent of marriages end in this country and over 75 percent are initiated by the woman.

 

Would you go skydiving with a parachute that only has a 50 percent chance of opening? How about flying in a plane that is 75 percent guaranteed to crash.

 

I could expound further and give you ladies a heads up but you wouldn't listen to me anyway. Good luck everyone!

[tornandmarried]

if u really want to spend your life with someone, you just will...no need for a piece of paper at the court house to prove it....commitment exists in the heart....if your willing to leave him cuz hes not interested in marriage, maybe your the one not committed to him