Came to the conclusion...

[You Go Girl]

The concerns I had where more due to both my wife and I coming from divorced parents, and other relational issues we have always had in our separate lives. Put that on top of being "young" and yes, there were concerns.

 

As far as correct in God's eyes, well I don't know how to answer that really. Of course at the time I believed it was. And so it goes, if it WAS right in his eyes then, then it still is now. I know this. Although I know this doesnt mean I feel this, or she does for that matter.

 

I'm your happy heathen here, ex-protestant, so I do understand, if not follow, dogma in my current outlook. Some of these things stay with us forever though, albeit many deep in the conscious.

From a practical point of view, I will point out that coming from divorced families on both sides makes it easier for you to separate. I assume you realize this already. The pot won't call the kettle black, so to speak. So really, in practicality, the largest hurdle you have to deal with as in fallout--is no hurdle at all. Your parents won't be judgmental. If you were going to be shunned, judged, or ostracized your fallout would be much harder to deal with. That said, I'm sure it pains you to repeat a failure pattern. However I wouldn't let myself feel too badly about this, as if you both go on to find more compatible mates and end up in successful families, you will have negated the negative with a long lasting positive. For example, my dear cousin has remarried a second time and has three beautiful children, her first marriage at 15 years old is now no longer judged as anything but a blip in the radar screen.

 

The dynamics of your marriage are blurry at best from a blind internet lack of insight. But a lack of passion from the get-go perhaps signifies that both parties in this marriage were marrying out of a convenience and business-type of agreement. Playing the stock market is like going to Las Vegas, anything can happen.

As an ex-Christian, and when I respond to that from a respectful point of view, I suggest that you find in the future a woman that you respect at a very deep level, because when that kind of respect is present, so is a passion for that respect, and all other goodies follow. Christianity is not needed for this successful package, but a deep respect for someone who you fit with is.

She isn't the one.

It really does come down to that.

Rarely, very rarely, on this forum do we as a group advocate divorce. You are one of the rare cases.

[CLOUD_ONE]

I'm your happy heathen here, ex-protestant, so I do understand, if not follow, dogma in my current outlook. Some of these things stay with us forever though, albeit many deep in the conscious.

From a practical point of view, I will point out that coming from divorced families on both sides makes it easier for you to separate. I assume you realize this already. The pot won't call the kettle black, so to speak. So really, in practicality, the largest hurdle you have to deal with as in fallout--is no hurdle at all. Your parents won't be judgmental. If you were going to be shunned, judged, or ostracized your fallout would be much harder to deal with. That said, I'm sure it pains you to repeat a failure pattern. However I wouldn't let myself feel too badly about this, as if you both go on to find more compatible mates and end up in successful families, you will have negated the negative with a long lasting positive. For example, my dear cousin has remarried a second time and has three beautiful children, her first marriage at 15 years old is now no longer judged as anything but a blip in the radar screen.

 

The dynamics of your marriage are blurry at best from a blind internet lack of insight. But a lack of passion from the get-go perhaps signifies that both parties in this marriage were marrying out of a convenience and business-type of agreement. Playing the stock market is like going to Las Vegas, anything can happen.

As an ex-Christian, and when I respond to that from a respectful point of view, I suggest that you find in the future a woman that you respect at a very deep level, because when that kind of respect is present, so is a passion for that respect, and all other goodies follow. Christianity is not needed for this successful package, but a deep respect for someone who you fit with is.

She isn't the one.

It really does come down to that.

Rarely, very rarely, on this forum do we as a group advocate divorce. You are one of the rare cases.

 

Thank you for your response. It was very well put and I definitely do see where you are coming from.

 

You are right on all counts, though I believe there will still be a hurdle. Although our families would be quite hypocritical if the judge, they still may. To me, not such a big deal, for her, probably more. Some of my very good friends on the other hand are Seminary Graduates and Pastors....so....they wont be too thrilled at the decision I am making. Yet another hurdle for me, but one I am willing to deal with.

[You Go Girl]

Thank you for your response. It was very well put and I definitely do see where you are coming from.

 

You are right on all counts, though I believe there will still be a hurdle. Although our families would be quite hypocritical if the judge, they still may. To me, not such a big deal, for her, probably more. Some of my very good friends on the other hand are Seminary Graduates and Pastors....so....they wont be too thrilled at the decision I am making. Yet another hurdle for me, but one I am willing to deal with.

 

And to those friends...judge not, lest you be judged.

Christianity is about loving, forgiving. This is the new testament. If you know someone who is going to judge you with the old testament, then jokingly remind them that they are not Jews.

I say this with a smile on my face, as I adore some jewish friends of mine.

Point being, no Christian can judge at all, if they are truly Christian.

This is NOT your hurdle.

Your hurdle is the conversation you have with your W to discuss ending it. I suggest you do this sooner than later. If there is any reticent passion within her, it will come out during this time. If there is a spark somewhere within this marriage, this is the point it will be revealed.

[CLOUD_ONE]

And to those friends...judge not, lest you be judged.

Christianity is about loving, forgiving. This is the new testament. If you know someone who is going to judge you with the old testament, then jokingly remind them that they are not Jews.

I say this with a smile on my face, as I adore some jewish friends of mine.

Point being, no Christian can judge at all, if they are truly Christian.

This is NOT your hurdle.

Your hurdle is the conversation you have with your W to discuss ending it. I suggest you do this sooner than later. If there is any reticent passion within her, it will come out during this time. If there is a spark somewhere within this marriage, this is the point it will be revealed.

 

Right again.

 

I believe that there will be a reaction when I have the final talk with her, and although it will be with strong emotions, I truly do assume they will be for the wrong reasons.

 

I dont believe it will be a shock to her at all because we both arent happy, though I think it may be shocking that I bring up divorce as my choice without question. I think she feels I wouldnt do that bc of the values.

[Steadfast]

Frankly, you won't the the first person to toss away your faith and values for a hotter piece of ass, nor the last. Sorry, but I can't help but think all this posturing is hiding the real issue. Sadly, your predicament is shared by many who feel the bible is a rule book instead of a road map. It's pointless to discuss religion in mixed company on the internet, but ask yourself this; when is the last time that you did something wrong, knew it was wrong going in, and somehow had it all work out for the best? Be truthful.

 

You know this and seem to acknowledge what the future might hold, yet you're willing to put yourself through it and 'absorb' the wrath and disappointment of family and friends. That's big of you. Not really, but that's what you want to hear, isn't it? You're not doing anyone any favors.

The payoff better be sweet brother! If it isn't, you've double-screwed yourself.

[TaraMaiden]

Steadfast, sorry, but when I work out what exactly you're talking about.....

 

I'm not sure what point you're making....

[CLOUD_ONE]

Frankly, you won't the the first person to toss away your faith and values for a hotter piece of ass, nor the last. Sorry, but I can't help but think all this posturing is hiding the real issue. Sadly, your predicament is shared by many who feel the bible is a rule book instead of a road map. It's pointless to discuss religion in mixed company on the internet, but ask yourself this; when is the last time that you did something wrong, knew it was wrong going in, and somehow had it all work out for the best? Be truthful.

 

You know this and seem to acknowledge what the future might hold, yet you're willing to put yourself through it and 'absorb' the wrath and disappointment of family and friends. That's big of you. Not really, but that's what you want to hear, isn't it? You're not doing anyone any favors.

The payoff better be sweet brother! If it isn't, you've double-screwed yourself.

 

As this is an internet forum, you are definitely entitled to your assumptions regarding my situation, though with that same reasoning, there would be no point in me hiding anything. Sure there are a ton of men out there who look for good justification and support based on an affair or similar, but if that were my case I would clearly state that in order to get a accurate response.

 

There is absolutely no one else in the picture in my case, and maybe in the future there will be, maybe there won't. I am not looking for advise or suggestions as to what the future might hold for me, but how to handle the present in the best way possible.

 

Thank you for your post though.

[You Go Girl]

Sadly, your predicament is shared by many who feel the bible is a rule book instead of a road map.

.

Actually, I do like this viewpoint. The bible as a roadmap. Much less intimidating than the bible as a rule book.

And what does the roadmap say about marriage and divorce?

I suppose, the general view is that the bible says find it within yourself to cherish and love the person you have married, and that it will all work out if you do this.

So then, the next logical question is: Have you cherished and loved your wife?

Assuming you have, then how can it not work out if you cherish and love?

If you claim that you have cherished and loved, yet still it isn't working, then how do you explain this?

So then we are left with only one explanation--that you have not cherished and loved your wife.

This presents a new problem. That of forcing ourselves to love another.

So we're back to the beginning it seems to me--that you didn't love your wife when you married her.

Eh. This stuff makes my head hurt. If you're staying in a marriage out of religious guilt, then you need to take a hard look at your marriage from another angle--that is can it be saved --period, forget all the religious stuff.

One thing bothers me about your response. You said it would be a surprise to your wife. It sounds like you haven't had conversations about how this marriage isn't making either of you happy. If you haven't had that conversation, then discussing the fallout from divorce is premature.

[Steadfast]

 

Steadfast, sorry, but when I work out what exactly you're talking about.....

 

I'm not sure what point you're making....

 

 

There really isn't much of a point, except to acknowledge the obvious. OP, reading your post brings several questions to the surface, including (but not limited to) why on earth you married this woman in the first place.

 

That was your first mistake.

 

Now, observing the teachings and values you claim to cherish, you're about to make another mistake to undo the first one. It makes no sense. I say mistake because that word fits and is easy to understand, but the word that really should be used is decision; bad decision. A mistake is taking the wrong exit on the freeway or goofing up the math when balancing your checkbook. Marriage is a contract; literally signed and sworn before God.

 

That of course, is all history. This poster wants advice on what to do now.

 

Given the bleak description of your marriage, it almost seems inhuman to suggest someone stay in it. That is to say, what is the statute of limitations on bad decisions? But the reality of the situation goes deeper than that. By proclaiming that you're part of the The Body you've put yourself in a position of judgment; like it or not. The example you set and precedent you establish will effect others, and mostly in a negative way. In other words, it's bigger than the both of you, but that's true for everyone. Still you might ask, what to do? I can't and won't tell you that, but I can say that for all practical purposes, you already are divorced.

 

Consider that 'road map' your bible offers differs from other maps by reminding travelers to not take their eyes off the road, swerve into oncoming traffic, drive over cliffs, or any number of hazards that would end the journey before the destination is reached. Behind the wheel of a car, the sane have no issue with *those* rules, yet when it comes to the bible, we resist. Why? Because deep down, we have little respect or concern for the unseen and unknown that isn't a part of earthly life.

 

My suggestion for you OP is to put your wife first and foremost; unselfishly. In the end, one, or both of you are going to make a long term decision and you'll have to live with it. I'm saying dig deep and explore your options before doing something that goes against your beliefs. That starts with opening some real communication with this woman. If -perhaps- you were to hear what is truly on her heart, you might feel differently. Good luck-

[CLOUD_ONE]

Just to clarify....

 

Holding a degree in Theology from a Seminary College, I am very well aware that a decision such as this goes against my vow before God. As much as I have struggled with that, I am not stuck in a dilemma as to if its right or wrong based on the faith. A person's faith is their own, though the teachings are "concrete", and what they choose to be convicted in regards to varies based on this. Because of that, I can't say what her struggle would be according to such a decision, and that is where my problem begins.

 

Why did we get married? We believed that it was the right thing to do at the time. Do I believe that now? No, I as a person do not. After struggling with whether or not it is right in God's eyes, I still don't know, but what I do know is that even if it is, that is not enough for me to sustain such an unhappy lifestyle. I have come to terms with that already.

 

Whether or not I am compounding one mistake with another, there is no way for me to foresee that. Lets say the marriage itself was a mistake. Okay, then just because we made one already, we live with it the rest of our lives? The outcome of making a decision with the intent to hopefully "fix" this first mistake is something that no one knows, and that I could only hope it would help. For both of us.

 

I also applaud the suggestion of putting my wife first before anything else, and I always have. This does not mean that we are happy though. I do believe that coming to this decision is still putting her first as well. How can I just let the both of us be complacent with our initial decision? How can I not give her the opportunity to actually be happy with life? As much as I need it too, I am bothered by her unhappiness in our marriage more than mine. We have tried to be better for each other, and have failed each time. If I cannot be the one to make her happy, then is it so wrong to be the one to give her the opportunity to at least possibly find someone that will?

 

I am not on here looking for someone to just up and tell me that I am doing the right thing, and I am also not here to have a Biblical debate as to how wrong my decision is. I am struggling with how to go forward with my decision based on the background I have given. I know there is no good way to do this, or easy way....

[TaraMaiden]

I have given this some thought, and in my opinion, you have possibly two ways to get this across to her.

 

One, would be to make the decision to move out, and tell her you are doing so to generate space between you and think more clearly. Be ready to actually move out; have bags packed, a place prepared for you to stay, and give yourselves a month of No Contact (as much as is possible) to get your thoughts - or plan of action together. Separation and absence of the other person will consolidate your thoughts and give you a clearer, quieter time to see the picture.

 

The other option would be to sit and write her a letter.

Try to make it as unemotional as possible, albeit gentle. Don't rationalise your decisions from or with the heart. This is a natural place to be, but it's also the wrong one.

Be concise, precise and factual. Take responsibility for your thinking, but give your reasons without reproach.

But be unequivocal.

Speak your Truth. Tell it like it is.

 

You're right. There is absolutely no easy way to do this. But you have to prevent collateral damage, and limit the fall-out as much as possible.

 

of course, you could also combine the two:

 

Leave AND write her a letter.....

[GorillaTheater]

I have given this some thought, and in my opinion, you have possibly two ways to get this across to her.

 

One, would be to make the decision to move out, and tell her you are doing so to generate space between you and think more clearly. Be ready to actually move out; have bags packed, a place prepared for you to stay, and give yourselves a month of No Contact (as much as is possible) to get your thoughts - or plan of action together. Separation and absence of the other person will consolidate your thoughts and give you a clearer, quieter time to see the picture.

 

The other option would be to sit and write her a letter.

Try to make it as unemotional as possible, albeit gentle. Don't rationalise your decisions from or with the heart. This is a natural place to be, but it's also the wrong one.

Be concise, precise and factual. Take responsibility for your thinking, but give your reasons without reproach.

But be unequivocal.

Speak your Truth. Tell it like it is.

 

You're right. There is absolutely no easy way to do this. But you have to prevent collateral damage, and limit the fall-out as much as possible.

 

of course, you could also combine the two:

 

Leave AND write her a letter.....

 

I think this is outstanding advice. Normally I'm not too keen on separations, since I'm not sure they generally improve a marriage, but I think your case may well be an exception. "Space" may very well be what you both need to gain some clarity.

 

And I would also write the letter, if only to make it absolutely clear why you feel taking this action is necessary.

[CLOUD_ONE]

I have given this some thought, and in my opinion, you have possibly two ways to get this across to her.

 

One, would be to make the decision to move out, and tell her you are doing so to generate space between you and think more clearly. Be ready to actually move out; have bags packed, a place prepared for you to stay, and give yourselves a month of No Contact (as much as is possible) to get your thoughts - or plan of action together. Separation and absence of the other person will consolidate your thoughts and give you a clearer, quieter time to see the picture.

 

The other option would be to sit and write her a letter.

Try to make it as unemotional as possible, albeit gentle. Don't rationalise your decisions from or with the heart. This is a natural place to be, but it's also the wrong one.

Be concise, precise and factual. Take responsibility for your thinking, but give your reasons without reproach.

But be unequivocal.

Speak your Truth. Tell it like it is.

 

You're right. There is absolutely no easy way to do this. But you have to prevent collateral damage, and limit the fall-out as much as possible.

 

of course, you could also combine the two:

 

Leave AND write her a letter.....

 

Interesting suggestions...thank you.

 

I suppose leaving for some time apart could be an option. Though regarding the letter, is that not too impersonal?

 

I would assume that comes off as being a bit cold...

 

I for one am not the best verbal communicator when it comes to thoughts and emotions. I do not like conflict at all, but at the same time, I have issues with not being able to sensor what I say. Though a letter, even if better communicated, just seems that it would be too impersonal?

[TaraMaiden]

On the contrary. if I want to communicate something rationally, lucidly and clearly, with affection, tact and sensitivity, there's no better way to do it than in a carefully thought-out letter.

You don't get interrupted, you don't fly off at a tangent, and you consider your language, phraseology and intention meticulously.

 

It's unambiguous, speaks from the mind, but with heart.

 

Why not give it a test run?

Write what you'd say to her, and keep it in a draw for a couple of days, then review it. You will find that it gets better as you modify.....

[CLOUD_ONE]

On the contrary. if I want to communicate something rationally, lucidly and clearly, with affection, tact and sensitivity, there's no better way to do it than in a carefully thought-out letter.

You don't get interrupted, you don't fly off at a tangent, and you consider your language, phraseology and intention meticulously.

 

It's unambiguous, speaks from the mind, but with heart.

 

Why not give it a test run?

Write what you'd say to her, and keep it in a draw for a couple of days, then review it. You will find that it gets better as you modify.....

 

Okay, maybe I will write one and just keep it to myself for now to see how it comes out...

 

I personally am always one to have upfront talks about things in general. Whether it is with family or for work, I find personal interaction to be the best way for any kind of result.....though this is a completely different level than i am used too...

[Steadfast]

 

Holding a degree in Theology from a Seminary College...

 

 

It's isn't what you know, it's what you are.

 

 

I am not on here looking for someone to just up and tell me that I am doing the right thing, and I am also not here to have a Biblical debate as to how wrong my decision is. I am struggling with how to go forward with my decision based on the background I have given. I know there is no good way to do this, or easy way....

 

 

This forum is filled with many wonderful, caring, compassionate and intelligent people. It truly is a very good place to go for answers, advice and insight. I'm off to other topics. Best of luck on your journey, and be well.