Reasons for silence - in need for female insight!

[caretoo]

C,

 

You didn't disappoint me and I don't think you are a coward. Just afraid of rejection...like we all are.

 

To answer your question about love and in love: I think love is a deep enduring, stable kind of caring and affection. More of a family kind of love that will always be there. In love? Well, that is somewhat the same except it comes with all of the bells and whistles...the butterflies...and extreme desire for the other. This is just my take. It may mean something very different to another.

 

You know who would have a good explanation on this? Mandrews. Hey, whatever happened to him? I think he is practicing NO CONTACT with us! Ok M, we'll give you 2 months tops!

 

Having all of these smilies could be dangerous.

 

c

[caretoo]

An afterthought:

 

I think you arel assuming she has found someone else. Maybe if you knew she hadn't then contact would be easier. Is there a mutual friend who could find out for you?

[caretoo]

Lost,

 

I think in your case you are doing the right thing by waiting for her to contact. It seems to me that she is confused and yes, she did need to contact you (you are her Touchstone) but she also needs to calm her fears and think things through by herself.

 

I think that her contacting you ater 4 months is a VERY GOOD sign. She has obviously had you on her mind for a long time.

 

The trust issue: Be careful not to slam the door unless that is what you truly need/want to do.

 

Be her friend and available while she works through things but give her a gentle reminder that you may not always be available to her at some distant point. (You may have moved on)

 

We women need security (very big) and like to know that our man is there for us but we also need to respect you... we can't string you along forever. We know it is not fair, but we will try. Timing again. If hers and yours are out of sync (one can't wait for the other) the result may not be what you are hoping for.

 

Waiting is so hard. Take peace in the thought that she is with you in spirit.

c

[mandrews1119]

Hello again all,

 

Mandrews here. I've been reading all of the posts, and wondering where my two cents' worth would fit in. Here they are.

 

CTM, people mature at differing paces where love is concerned. Then realization sets in, and different folks handle it differently. I agree that you are making the assumption that she is with someone else, and is no longer thinking of you. Wrong!!! First of all, get over the "someone else" thinking. (as much as you can) If she is, there isn't anything you can do about it at this stage. If she isn't - there isn't anything you can do about that, either. secondly, she IS thinking of you MORE than you will ever know. It is how she is dealing with that, that is helping to drive her now. As explained, loving and being in love are two different things. Limerance, or the wild "head over heels" stuff is infatuation, lust, attraction, and newness. This lasts from the beginning of courtships until the next phase, which varies from person to person. Sometimes a few weeks, in other relationships up to decades. The intensity also varies according to the people and the situation. The next phase is romantic love, in which you begin to really see what the two of you have in common, and settle in. The third phase is love itself, in which you are doing the life-building things. These phases often overlap, and can all be present (or absent) at the same time. I am stating that your ex is trying to chase the 1st stage, and trying to make it like it was with the two of you. Guess what, it ain't gonna happen!! It's like a drug addict trying to recapture the thrill of the first high. Also, every guy (emphasis on EVERY!!) is being compared to Y-O-U!!! The more she runs, the less they stack up. Some of these "rebounds" may last a little longer than others, and some women give up on them after they have had enough chasing the dream, or when the reality sets in that what the two of you had/have is special and worth revisiting. That is when opprtunity arises and the point that you must be prepared for. It may be triggered by anything (her contacting you, or some other event,) - but you must be prepared for it if and when it comes. If you have been thinking longterm (and I assume you are, right?) you have been doing all the things you have needed to in order to make things better for the two of you to reengage. As Caretoo has stated, this is better known as timing. When she realizes that what the two of you have, and what is most important is the long-term and phase three type of love, she will react to and respond to that. Some folks need to waste time and bang their heads against a few more walls than others of us to realize this. When we finally grow up emotionally, most adults do come around to the notion that the deep, enduring love is the type we really prefer, and try to keep phases one and two alive within that. That is why a lot of women run around looking to immediately find phase three, but are stuck in the first phase, and wonder why they don't have the type of love their hearts really long for. If she is fortunate, she will realize this is what you are and have been offering all the time. I, like so many other guys, are in this boat with you. Be strong, stay in the lifeboat, and survive to sail again. Mandrews out.

[caretoomuch]

I dont know but for some reason the past 2-3 days I have a feeling that something is really close to happening between me and the ex. I have no reason to feel this and nothing has happened to indicate it will but i just have this very peaceful (nearly joyous) feeling that very soon something good is about to happen .... i feel very close to her.

 

what is this feeling and why am i having it .... is it intuition or simply am i moving on and letting go.

 

Thanx mandrews, care2 and lost .... i think your advice is generating this good feeling.

 

cheers

[lost_in_chgo]

C2++,

 

Great. Hang in there buddy. I'll be very happy to hear that you've heard from her.

 

 

 

C2,

 

You said:

I think that her contacting you ater 4 months is a VERY GOOD sign. She has obviously had you on her mind for a long time.

 

She called because a mutual acquaintance told another how I was doing and the second person told my ex. It doesn't seem to me that she really is thinking about me at all. But then I got that email with all that supressed emotion in it.

 

Then I read mandrews talking about what I (and C2++) are thinking and how it's wrong and that she (his, not mine) is thinking about him (not me) and hope rises again.

 

So the next part of the rollercoaster is .... to be seen I guess.

[caretoomuch]

mandrews,

 

you said in your last post 'she IS thinking of you MORE than you will ever know. ' - why do you think this ?

 

if she has moved on why would she be thinking of me?

 

another thing if i was just another rebound relationship for her (despite lasting 11 months) would it then be that she is thinking of someone else and comparing others to this someone by your theory. I was the last relationship but certainly not the first - she was originally married (and hurt by him) more than 15years ago - it is this that triggered her spring time to spring time relationship attitude - maybe she is thinking and comparing all comers to her original husband.

 

i would love to believe that she is thinking of me but ..... however my ears were burning the other day.

 

cheers

 

c2m

[caretoo]

I think they are most definitely thinking of you two. We all may move on but we don't forget that easily. Even after years of no contact. I think we compare all past relationships but it's the special one we would most like to emulate.

 

C,

Maybe she was having nice peaceful thoughts about you. ? This has happened to me before. When I have a certain feeling (out of nowhere) and find out later that someone was thinking about me. Sending good thoughts. Mental telepathy?

It's uncanny! I think it happens when you're really close to someone and you send them vibes.

 

Have you ever started to pick up the phone to call someone and then you're phone rings and its that person calling you? Or you call someone and they say "I was just thinking about you". This is what I mean.

 

Are you going to try to find out if she is seeing anyone? Maybe you really don't want to know yet???

 

After receiving your "hello" I now have a very important piece of the puzzle! Maybe she is waiting until after the 29th???

 

Peaceful thoughts to all.

c

[caretoo]

Lost,

 

She is thinking of you and does care. She would never have bothered to call/e-mail if she didn't. Apathy is a killer but I don't see that in your situation.

 

Keep the faith.

 

 

Mandrews,

Such a wonderful reply and "right on"!

 

c

[caretoomuch]

Caretoo,

 

She does not know of the 29th yet as it was settled after January (when the silence commenced) ..... i would love to let her know about the 29th but how? i was thinking of having a party / celebration on the night so i might just send a group e-mail to all my friends saying celebration time and why. i will include her on this e-mail and see what happens. i still am not even sure she is reading her e-mails as she only used it sparingly when i knew her ... so most of my e-mails over the past 3 months may still be unread ....

 

I am not going to try and find out about her seeing anyone or not because i consider that as mild stalking and none of my business ... it is her life and i will leave her to live it. to know that she was seeing someone would not bother me because i have basically assumed this is the case.

 

i do feel a link to her at the moment and feel very close .... i actually dreamt of her last night forthe first time ever ... i could see her face and everything - still as beautiful as ever.

 

cheers

 

haveagoodweekend

 

be good .....

 

c2m

[caretoomuch]

it would be nice to think that all these feelings i am getting at the moment are her thinking of me ... i hope it is not just wishful thinking ... either way it makes me feel good.

 

cheers

[wishfullthinker2004]

I know everyone has been saying no contact and yes some contact. Its hard either way. I still have "some" contact with my ex. He is states away though, I did the breaking up, and take it back for everything I have. (read how do I contact him)...no contact is so hard becuz he is on my mind from the moment I wake up to the moment I go to bed. When I wake up in hte middle of the night, he is the first one there. I do wish him well, and yes, having peaceful thoughts that we are still connected is still there. Its just the waiting for that break is the hardest thing. especialy when you had this amazing connection with eachother immediatley.

 

Even though he tells me he can't eat, or is misserable....sort of makes me feel better, but then why don't they open back up and tell you he is still there. Must be lack of trust or something...I know that is it in my case.

 

Lets all hang in there, I'm taking it one day at a time.

 

 

wishful

[wishfullthinker2004]

In my last post I said read "how to I contact him" , but I meant, "how do I reach him". Sorry...

 

Wishful

[mandrews1119]

Dear c2m,

The reason I said that she is thinking about you more than you know is because she has been in contact with you (either through your direct efforts, or not). It is IMPOSSIBLE to have been in love and then just turn it OFF, just like that. Love doesn't work that way, it is a psychological as well as physiological response. The question is how people (your ex) ARE handling things, and how she responds to any number of feelings that say to her TO contact you. Some folks are better at just staying away, some at going into "rebound" relationships, some at just staying far enough away (but in some contact) to be satisfied. Do you think that you are the only one who misses or thinks of the other person you have been involved with? Trust me, she thinks, even if she doesn't show it. Not showing it is also how some folks cope.

[caretoomuch]

mandrews,

 

i am confused by what u say ... she has not contacted me at all. unless you mean the good vibes i have had this week and it is a subconscious contact. she was very spiritual. but how will i ever know ...

 

since breaking up 5 months ago she has contacted me only 3 times ... every time she needed some help with something ... and absolutely no contact since christmas.

 

i tried meditation and to try to transport myself to her and i sit on her bed talking to her ... but i havent done that for a while ... i might try it again. it seems to bring peace to me.

 

cheers

[mandrews1119]

Dear c2m,

You have to start to realize that this is a LONG term deal you are embarking on. I know, you want her to respond immediately, and how can she be so blind as to not know what you are saying and feeling - but simmer down, the one certainty is that it will take TIME.

 

I say what I have said to you based on the fact that love is a most meaningful emotion, and is never taken lightly even when you may think it is. Much as we would like to, we cannot control anything except what is ours to control - our own lives, not hers. You must work on Y-O-U and the things that would make it worth her while to reunite with you, and that would point to a better future together. Because the two of you have shared a love - those good and positive emotions will not either be ignored or forgotten. If you don't get into this type of mindframe, you will only succeed at driving yourself MAD, and not do the things you really need to in order to move forward if and when the opportunity arises. You want her to find you ready for a life together in the future, not the opposite. Stop focusing on transporting yourself to her so much, and transport yourself to wherever you need to in order to get through the day. That doesn't mean don't think of her, it means don't obsess on it. It takes time, but it MUST be done. Sooner or later they lock people away who don't get this idea. after you transport yourself to her, go somewhere else that you can have positive, tangible results from.

 

That being said, if the emotions you feel are so powerful, do you not think she has some measure of these same feelings? Do you not think she thinks of you too? Maybe she isn't doing the transporting thing, but you are not as "gone" as you may feel. It is what you both do with this time apart that will determine how well things go when you have the chance to try again. Use yours wisely, and keep hope alive, if it works for you. If you believe in the power of love, it may be very difficult, but you will make a way. I, for one, am on the side of love being everlasting and eternal between two people. Best of luck.

[lost_in_chgo]

OK I was within 1 minute of her house today. (we're about 30 minutes apart)

 

Nope...didn't drive by, didn't call, wasn't tempted.

 

Though I was looking at a house to buy there.

 

And yes I did hope that she'd call while I was out there. Fat chance.

 

So.. going on four weeks since we trade an email.

Will 1 month be the magic number?

 

ohhh the stress.

 

Any thought on whether calling at some time is a good or bad idea?

I did reply to her email, but I've no proof that she received the reply.

Though I've no reason to think she didn't, and I think that if she didn't receive my reply, I would have heard about it from someone. She'd at least be concerned that I hated her I think.

 

So is she game playing?

Trying to make a point?

Just not ready?

or just really apathetic?

 

 

and where have all the bridge burners gone?

I may not agree, but I do listen.

[caretoomuch]

Feeling a bit sad today. Was listening to the radio yesterday and heard an advertisment for the local fair which happens every year. well last year the ex and her daughter and my 2 boys all went to this fair as a family and we had a great time. we were at the height of our love and devotion at this point. to sit and think that she may be hearing this same advertisment on the radio and possibly remembering last year also is making me sad, or worse she may be going again this year with a new bf as a family. these memories are great to have but they sure make you sad. the good memories stay whilst the bad ones fade away ... i think that maybe you make you relationship into something it wasnt by forgetting these bad memories (not that we had many).

 

to lost and mandrews,

i am very prepared to do the hard work in preparation for that chance if it ever comes, i am not afraid of this. i have been working on myself with some therapy and talking to a lot of people. i am having a party in a week to celebrate the legal ratification of my divorce (after 2 years of fighting in court) and i have invited a group of friends (including the ex). i hope she may respond as she doesnt know this date and it was a sticking point in our relationship. i am not sitting waiting for her and if she never comes then i will still be better prepared for my future. i am comfortable with this knowledge.

 

my friends are all trying to set me up with their friends, but i still lack the motivation to want to try. i like the idea but not the energy needed to devote to new relationships. plus none of them seem to compare. so i guess i am not ready but in time i know i will.

 

i understand that the ex would not have just forgotten all the love but i still dont understand the comments of how people think the ex is still thinking of me after 5 months. i would like to believe this but at some time you do move on and as the dumpee i think the ex has done this (which is obviously her right). i know that i do not think of my ex wife at all now and that was after 13.5 years of loving her. strong love was good but if it was not strong enough to fight for then how can it be strong enough to be remembered by the ex.

 

caretoo,

hope you are happy and going well and somehow find the strength to come to peace with your situation

 

take care

 

c2m

[Dixiecron]

Lost:

 

Hello, bridge burners hotline, Dixie speaking. Sorry for the wait, our calls have been backed up by young men being taunted by teenage girls...

 

Look at the questions you asked:

 

***So is she game playing?

If she is, she's playing with you. Trying to manipulate you. Why do you need someone like that?

 

***Trying to make a point?

If she is, she is punishing you for giving her the space she asked for. Why do you need that kind of person?

 

***Just not ready?

If she's not ready, then you don't need to contact her again, right?

 

***or just really apathetic?

If she's apathetic, then she can't really miss you all that much, in my opinion.

[lost_in_chgo]

ok, I guess counterpoints will have to do. No other suggestions, so maybe my scenarios cover the possibilities.

 

So assuming game playing is a deliberate manipulation, your point is valid. But I think that's not the case here.

 

Making a point doesn't imply punishment, but it is interesting to see how some people jump right to that. Certainly I don't need someone that feels the need to punish me. Some women with children do that. I think it stems from how they learn to control the kids. Tough love. They tend to try the same tactics on adults. I see this alot in a business environment, people with children talking down to other adults when they disagree on a point, the end result of which is usually silence and animosity rather than yielding to authority. But the talker tends not to realize this as the apparent result is the same. Do what I want and I'll give you a cookie. Hmmm, could be that.

 

Not ready, wait, got it.

 

Apathetic, not missing me, not worth pursuing. Got it. But apathetic wouldn't have contacted me at all.

 

 

hmmm, taunting teanage girls......hmmmm.

[Care2]

Sometimes I think what we miss so much about a past relationship is that it filled a void in us. The object of our affection had a certain something that we admired or wished we posessed. I think it is important to focus on this characteristic in our time of healing and try to incorporate that positive quality in our own lives/personalities. This way we will carry a part of them with us always.

 

It could be so many different things... something individual for all of us.

I am trying to be a person who is more true to my myself. My values may not measure up to anothers or maybe they are on a higher plane. I may not dress or act a certain way that people expect of me but it is my style and conduct and I will take ownership of it. It is who I am.

 

This is what I am taking with me from my om.

 

He lives his life the way he wants to... even if some try to mold him into what they want or think he should be. He is unique, his own person and comfortable with that and himself. His example is his final gift to me.

 

"To thine ownself be true"

Caretoo/Care2

[Care2]

C,

I think you have been through a lot of stress over the past few years. This combined with single parenting has taken it toll. Please don't forget that you deserve some "time and silence" for yourself. Quiet the demons in your head, rest your body and try to forgive yourself for past failures. Take some time to heal, get to know yourself and what you truly want out of life (M aside for now). Discover what makes you happy and work on your strengh.

 

I think Mandrews is right. It is so important to prepare yourself... if and when opportunity knocks.

 

Don't forget that this is your life. Right now. You are making memories (w/ your sons) right now. Make them count so that later in life you willl have great stories to share with them when they are adults. These years are golden and will bring you so much pleasure/laughter someday in the future... when you need to smile.

 

caretoo

[Dixiecron]

Lost,

 

I'm having a nice Johnny Cash "Sunday Morning Sidewalk" kind of day, so forgive me if I ramble...

 

Taunting teenage girls... Do you feel the same sort of angst that you did when you were 16? Does she like me, or doesn't she? Oh man, I really hope she does...

 

Well, my only other suggestion would be the same one I tell every other guy on this board. Give up, move on, and establish no-contact and mean it for real. <Insert Zen quote about being a rock at the bottom of a creek>. <Insert another Zen quote about closed fist holding nothing>. What are you holding on to? What happens when you open the fist?

 

Cease the internal madness, and the truth will spring forth from the still pond. Or something like that... Don't think so hard. The truth of what you need to do is right in front of you, but I can't tell you the truth. Only you can. How long has this situation dragged on for you? Is it doing you any good? Open the fist.

 

Personally, I would say to just accept that you may be single for a while and do whatever you need/want to do that will make it so you enjoy being single. As soon as you start liking it too much, another woman (never married, no children if you're lucky) will come along and try to "solve" this mysterious man who seems to like being on his own...

 

That being said, I think I follow what you're saying about women with children, but then I would have to ask: Do you want a woman that will treat you as a child or as an adult?

 

Not-apathetic would have returned your message.

 

I see plenty of women that are close to 40 and still behave as if they are 18. Of course by that point in life, all of the "good men" have learned to steer clear of that type. Some people grow up, others just get older.

[lost_in_chgo]

Dix,

 

No I've never done the angst thing, even when I was younger.

 

I was married at a young age, and betrayed then

(so there's some history there), but I never let that keep me

from trusting someone else.

 

But then I've never felt loss at a breakup, even the marriage,

(or maybe especially the marriage).

 

Until this one. My ex is the only person I've ever met that really got to me on this level.

I think sometimes that a more cerebral, less visceral relationship would be better

for me, she has such a power over me that I never thought possible. But, and perhaps

this is a good thing...that power seems to be diminishing over time. That is the primary

thing for me that is making this no contact thing bearable. Well, that and my belief that

I might get another shot down the road.

 

In a way my Zen fist has been open since she left. While I did try to convince her early on,

and I did tell her I want her back at that time, I never pursued her to the point of

confronting her. I always presented a calm, reassuring and welcoming posture. Though I

did display a lack of confidence and happiness for awhile there...

 

The truth of whether or not any of this has done me any good lies in the path of my future.

Certainly I've improved my lot in the meantime, though not in the love life sense. A better job,

better money on the side job, weight loss...some of which would not have happened without

this whole string of events. This situation has dragged on for 7 months now and I expect it to

continue for up to two years. But it will be a changing, migrating situation. Perhaps she will

reach out again in the next few weeks. (Next week is a month since she emailed me) If she

doesn't I've decided to reach out to her with a followup email in three weeks. (pending

approval from my advisory council of which I am the chair).

 

As far a women with kids thing, (not limited to women mind you), I don't think that is what this is,

but I thought I'd float it out there. And I don't think it's apathy.

 

What I think it is is establishing boundary markers. She's not seeing anyone right now and I

think she needed to establish that she doesn't want me in the mix. She was steadfastly

refusing to see me in person for several months. It really is difficult for her. I was respecting

that by not confronting her (woulda been easy, but open fist and all that). But I was asking

her to go to lunch etc, regularly and she would always say, we'll see. That translates to I don't

think I trust you not to try to win me back yet.

 

Some people grow up, others just get older.

 

Damn. Now that's a thought provoking statement. Hmmm.

 

So madness quotient is much lower, but I don't believe there will ever be a day in my life that

my heart wouldn't leap at hearing her voice on the phone.

 

I need to date someone else for awhile.

 

 

Lost Out

[Care2]

Dix,

 

Life/love isn't always as simple as you see it. Nor are certain things so important anymore, as we all, inevitably, acquire our own baggage. You will acquire your own baggage someday...no doubt about it.

Maybe someday when you "grow up" you will realize this.

 

Mom