Thoughts on fOW making peace with fBS...?

[Brokenlady]

Many of you know my story, which I'll summarize in an extremely short way here, and I hope you can provide me with some helpful wisdom.

 

In short - I was an OW to a MM for a couple years and then left him because it seemed to me that he was intent on staying with his W. He has two kids (teens) and I have two (primary school age). My leaving apparently triggered him to want to leave his M, but he waffled a lot and did so slowly. After he moved out over 2 years ago, he was uncertain and flipflopped, lied, and tried to keep the door open with both of us. It was an extremely hurtful time for me. I finally out my foot down awhile back and in time, he has shown me that it is truly over with his xW and has appropriate boundaries in place. He has been treating me better and I get along with his kids. Things are good - except:

 

That his xW is still having a lot of trouble letting go. Although there was well over a year between their divorce and the kids meeting me (and more years still since the seperation), she seemed shocked and became very vindictive. It was as if the reality of the divorce came crashing down on her upon my meeting the kids. (She apparently never told the schools or anyone official anywhere that they divorced and represented that they were still M and living together). xW has been messing with his visitation ever since the kids met me, despite the court order.

 

The kids are lying to xW, telling her they are mean to me because that is what she wants them to do. It's sad, and the toll on the kids that she is exacting is tremendous. I have never, and would never say an ill word of the xW to or around their children, but that courtesy is obviously not returned (not that I expected any differently, given the A). She appears to actively campaign to say things - the kids volunteer that they are told I am "evil", a "whore", that their father will go to hell for leaving her and that she still prays he will come back to her, etc. It makes me sad for the kids.

 

She (xW) has some significant mental health issues, and I try to remember that when I get angry. She really believes that if I died tomorrow, her life would go back to the way it was and she'd be happy. She really believes they aren't truly "divorced" in the "eyes of God", so she doesn't have to acknowledge it as having happened even though it was she that filed.

 

In this context, I often wonder if there's anything I can do. I know she thinks I am trying to take over her life and replace her a the kid's mother, which I would never endeavor to do. I wonder if it would help to try to have a calm and sane conversation with her to address her concerns with me, but then I think it would make it worse.

 

I know most of the BS's here are still with their H's and haven't had her exact experience, but if you have some thoughts to share on what I might be able to do to make things better, I'm all ears.

[2sure]

Nope. Do not attempt this. She is no condition to be reasonable with you.

 

What you can do is this:

 

Tell the children that you understand what their mother thinks of you. Tell them that you hope someday that changes. But meanwhile, although you understand tell them, that it does hurt your feelings to have them repeat to you what their mom says about you.

 

They are telling you these things either because they feel it is a way to show you loyalty or because she wants them to. Take that responsibility away from them. Soon, they will stop listening to the comments.

 

Tell them that unless they have a problem themselves with their mother's behavior that they need help with...that you feel its best to leave the negative at the door.

[Brokenlady]

But meanwhile, although you understand tell them, that it does hurt your feelings to have them repeat to you what their mom says about you.

 

In truth, I'm so used to this kind of thing, it sort of bounces off me now. And in fairness, I earned it by having an A with her xH, I figure.

 

They are telling you these things either because they feel it is a way to show you loyalty or because she wants them to. Take that responsibility away from them. Soon, they will stop listening to the comments.

 

Good point.

 

Tell them that unless they have a problem themselves with their mother's behavior that they need help with...that you feel its best to leave the negative at the door.

 

Well, the kids complain that she cries for hours on end when they tell her I've been around them. They are of course under no obligation to tell her, nor any prohibition against it from us. But, I think her son tells her on purpose to hurt her - he seems to have some unresolved rage that he had even before the A was public knowledge. His daughter seems very upset by these and other behaviors (denying him visits with the kids, even when I am not around). There are many other things that are of concern that the kids say, and so he has filed for primary custody - which will make the tension worse in the short term.

 

I wish there was some way I could assure her that her kids will continue to be treated well by me, that i have no designs on replacing her as their mother and that i will only discuss her respectfully with them. But I doubt it would soothe her. You're right that she's in no condition for rational talk.

[Snowflower]

I agree with 2sure's advice. But wanted to add what the BS is told here over and over again, "blame the WS." In your case I think this is true as well. It appears your MM handled the affair and subsequent divorce very, very badly. All the flip-flopping, the back and forth, made his wife pull the plug and file for divorce, etc.

 

Broken, it seems like you're intent on blaming the xW for the mess that the MM created. She is not innocent and seems unstable but from your story, it seems the MM/WS certainly helped put her in a bad place. It's just something to keep in mind.

 

At this point, I would stay as far away from her as possible. Nothing good can come of it if you try to approach her, work with her about the kids, etc.

 

I'm assuming it is her children that she is staying untrue things to? Aren't they teenagers? If so, those kids are old enough to figure the truth out for themselves, no matter what they are being told by her, their father or you. In any case, those teenagers will be moving out of the house/on with their lives in the not so distant future which likely be the best thing for them.

[JustJoe]

BL, in what way do you feel entitled to ANY consideration from this woman? Or , for that matter, the kids? To be blunt, In her eyes you are the sl*t who stole her husband, and wrecked her marriage, so who's to say you won't try to steal the love of her children? This is the price you pay for having an affair with a MM. Learn to live with it, don't complain, and leave her alone. She doesn't know the "real", you and most likely doesn't want to. I am simply amazed at people who have affairs and feel some sense of entitlement. She owes you nothing, you are the enemy. Own it, and go about your business.

[Brokenlady]

I agree with 2sure's advice. But wanted to add what the BS is told here over and over again, "blame the WS." In your case I think this is true as well. It appears your MM handled the affair and subsequent divorce very, very badly. All the flip-flopping, the back and forth, made his wife pull the plug and file for divorce, etc.

 

He did handle it very very badly. He was awful to both of us. And that behavior absolutely set the stage for whats happening now.

 

Broken, it seems like you're intent on blaming the xW for the mess that the MM created. She is not innocent and seems unstable but from your story, it seems the MM/WS certainly helped put her in a bad place. It's just something to keep in mind.

 

He did make a mess. An awful one, and he probably deserves the fact that she's snippy with him and mean to him. BUT I don't think any measure of bad behavior on his part is an excuse to put her kids in the middle and hurt them. I know I was not fully "there" for my own kids while the worst was going on - but I regard that as MY fault, not his, because it was my responsibility and within my power to change it.

 

At this point, I would stay as far away from her as possible. Nothing good can come of it if you try to approach her, work with her about the kids, etc.

 

I'm assuming it is her children that she is staying untrue things to? Aren't they teenagers? If so, those kids are old enough to figure the truth out for themselves, no matter what they are being told by her, their father or you. In any case, those teenagers will be moving out of the house/on with their lives in the not so distant future which likely be the best thing for them.

 

They're on the younger end. But yes, I think they see quite clearly that she needs help. However, they will always have loyalty towards her, as they should, and when she invokes that, you can see how it upsets them.

[Brokenlady]

BL, in what way do you feel entitled to ANY consideration from this woman? Or , for that matter, the kids? To be blunt, In her eyes you are the sl*t who stole her husband, and wrecked her marriage, so who's to say you won't try to steal the love of her children? This is the price you pay for having an affair with a MM. Learn to live with it, don't complain, and leave her alone. She doesn't know the "real", you and most likely doesn't want to. I am simply amazed at people who have affairs and feel some sense of entitlement. She owes you nothing, you are the enemy. Own it, and go about your business.

 

Joe,

You completely miss the point. I honestly don't care if she likes me or hates me. I am concerned about her children (and what mine are seeing from hers). And if that means I have to hold my nose and do what has to be done to make it better, I will. Not because I want her to like me, just because it's the right thing to do, for the kids.

 

You are right that she owes me nothing, but I am not the enemy. There is no battle anymore. It's over. What is left now is to make the best of the bad situation until the kids are adults.

[Snowflower]

I

Well, the kids complain that she cries for hours on end when they tell her I've been around them. They are of course under no obligation to tell her, nor any prohibition against it from us. But, I think her son tells her on purpose to hurt her - he seems to have some unresolved rage that he had even before the A was public knowledge. His daughter seems very upset by these and other behaviors (denying him visits with the kids, even when I am not around). There are many other things that are of concern that the kids say, and so he has filed for primary custody - which will make the tension worse in the short term.

 

 

As a mother myself, I can't imagine dragging my children through my own emotional minefield. However, the xW in this case may be so emotionally tapped out that she doesn't know what else to do. I'm not making any excuses for her--but just trying to give a possible explanation of why she acts/says as she does. One possible explanation of many.

 

As for the father filing for primary custody. Wow, that is beyond cruel. This poor woman had her marriage stripped away and now possibly her children. I can't even fathom how awful that must be for her. As a mother BL, can't you have any sympathy for her?

 

There surely must be a better way to handle this dilemma. What about family counseling for them? Yes, she needs help (a lot of it by the sounds of it) but to take her children away? I am speechless by the pure selfishness and cruelty here. I won't say what else I would like to say.

 

I'm not blaming you BL for this situation that the MM (and to some extent the xW) in large part created. But as a mother yourself, can't you understand her distress? You got her husband and "her life" in some ways. Now she will likely think that you will get her children as well.

 

Your MM needs to find a different way to handle the situation such as family counseling.

[ladydesigner]

As a mother myself, I can't imagine dragging my children through my own emotional minefield. However, the xW in this case may be so emotionally tapped out that she doesn't know what else to do. I'm not making any excuses for her--but just trying to give a possible explanation of why she acts/says as she does. One possible explanation of many.

 

As for the father filing for primary custody. Wow, that is beyond cruel. This poor woman had her marriage stripped away and now possibly her children. I can't even fathom how awful that must be for her. As a mother BL, can't you have any sympathy for her?

 

There surely must be a better way to handle this dilemma. What about family counseling for them? Yes, she needs help (a lot of it by the sounds of it) but to take her children away? I am speechless by the pure selfishness and cruelty here. I won't say what else I would like to say.

 

I'm not blaming you BL for this situation that the MM (and to some extent the xW) in large part created. But as a mother yourself, can't you understand her distress? You got her husband and "her life" in some ways. Now she will likely think that you will get her children as well.

 

Your MM needs to find a different way to handle the situation such as family counseling.

 

Great post Snowflower. I know as a mom I would fight tooth and nails to keep my kids. I would go broke doing it. Yes I think family counseling is a great answer for everyone in this scenario.

 

I think you and MM should stay focused on your own M and leave the XW alone to figure herself out. Maybe she needs counseling, but taking her kids away...really? Your MM sounds like he needs a real wake-up call.

[2sure]

In truth, I'm so used to this kind of thing, it sort of bounces off me now. And in fairness, I earned it by having an A with her xH, I figure.

 

Hey, as a BS and former OW...I understand guilt and reprecussions, etc.

 

BUT: You did it, its over, right or wrong. You owned it. You have regrets and you have progress. You have no doubt been wronged and done wrong. Been treated well and been good to others. Thats life. We each of us have all of that.

 

You have, like all of us - no choice but to march forward. You cant fight it . You can only pick your own direction and carry only what will help you. Carry the lessons, not the guilt. Forgive yourself and others will stop blaming.

 

Kids are tricky. Whether you feel you should feel guilty or not...dont let them know you are vulnerable to this.

[Brokenlady]

SF and LD,

He has offered family counseling many times, but she refuses to go. She said that until he is willing to go back to and reconcile with her, she will not agree. It's extortion, and definitely not in the kids best interests.

 

He has tried everything he can to bring some sort of resolution to all this and still protect his kids. I support (but don't cheerlead) his decision. He believes this is the only way he can protect them from what they're currently enduring, and given what I know, I tend to agree. The extended family also agrees.

[JustJoe]

First, BL, you are responsible for the behavior of your kids, and the MM is responsible for the behavior of his. The idea that both families will live together in harmony, is pure fantasy. You are in for a very bumpy road, and can only expect it to get worse. With respect to you ( I know that it isn't your fault) but your MM is exhibiting a selfish, cowardly nature. He is at fault for pretty much all of the bad feeling, because of his extremely poor handling of the Divorce and affair. There is nothing you can or should do to try to have "closure", or a "truce", with the EXW. This is the MM's responsibility. His kids undoubtedly will play you and the EX off against each other, until he mans up and takes control of the situation. I feel really sorry for you, but there it is. You will be hurt, the kids (both) will be hurt, the ExW will be hurt. So the question should be, wtf is HE doing to make things right? Only you can answer this. I wish you luck.

[eeyore1981]

It sounds to me from reading this thread that these children were put through a lot of trauma for some time by the A, the waffling back and forth, then the separation and divorce of their parents.

 

It seems to me, and maybe I'm mistaken, that the trauma these children were put through was a non-issue for BL and the MM while it involved them and them getting what they wanted. Now that BL and MM are together, the trauma the kids are being put through because BW is upset and didn't get what she wanted is an issue. ???

 

I agree with some previous posters, what needs to take place here is MM should do what he can to get his xBW and his children in some family therapy, where maybe healing can begin to take place. Taking the kids away, in my opinion, is BS, and I don't mean betrayed spouse...

[ladydesigner]

SF and LD,

He has offered family counseling many times, but she refuses to go. She said that until he is willing to go back to and reconcile with her, she will not agree. It's extortion, and definitely not in the kids best interests.

 

He has tried everything he can to bring some sort of resolution to all this and still protect his kids. I support (but don't cheerlead) his decision. He believes this is the only way he can protect them from what they're currently enduring, and given what I know, I tend to agree. The extended family also agrees.

 

Yeah that is too bad they don't want to go to family counseling. What about his kids going to counseling? You sound like a nice woman Brokenlady and I don't doubt that. If my kids were to have a stepmother I would want her to be as protective of them as I am. You sound like a caring mother looking out for their best interest. I hope things can work out without a battle. Kids are so fragile at any age in regards to their love of their parents. I hope things work out in the best interest of the children. Good luck Brokenlady I know you have a tough road ahead of you.

[JustJoe]

BTW, I know what I'm talking about. My Mom had an affair when I was in HS. Her and Dad reconciled, but for a time, we were "introduced", to the AP and his kids.

[Brokenlady]

As for the father filing for primary custody. Wow, that is beyond cruel. This poor woman had her marriage stripped away and now possibly her children. I can't even fathom how awful that must be for her. As a mother BL, can't you have any sympathy for her?

 

I do have sympathy. She's been through hell. Very probably worse than what he put me through and that almost emotionally killed me. However, if she cannot function as a mother, and requires instead the kids to care for her at considerable expense to them - should we just look the other way out of more regard for an adult than children?

 

There surely must be a better way to handle this dilemma. What about family counseling for them? Yes, she needs help (a lot of it by the sounds of it) but to take her children away? I am speechless by the pure selfishness and cruelty here. I won't say what else I would like to say.

 

He doesn't do it out of selfishness or cruelty, and he will be the 1st one to back off it if her her behavior stabilizes. He truly wants her to be happy and is saddened that she hasn't let go and moved on to a happier place. And he knows much of that is his fault. Nevertheless, she has shut him down at every resolution he has proposed. It does read like insult to injury, and I guess it is, but she seems to leave him with no choice as shes refused family counseling etc. I would expect my xH to file for custody if I proved mentally incapable of caring for my children and unwilling to resolve it too.

 

But as a mother yourself, can't you understand her distress? You got her husband and "her life" in some ways. Now she will likely think that you will get her children as well.

 

I do "get" that. But it is so inaccurate in reality. None of us are the same people we were when it began. And I don't want her to suffer anymore because then her kids suffer, (and I suffer guilt and her sniping). I have no doubt that this is her line of thinking, and that is why I wish I could say something to her so she knows I am not out to steal her children. I guess I hoped that she might find some comfort in the idea that she knows i am good them, despite her hating me. (I don't like my xH's girlfriend as a person, but she's good to my kids, and thats all I care about).

[Brokenlady]

Hey, as a BS and former OW...I understand guilt and reprecussions, etc.

 

BUT: You did it, its over, right or wrong. You owned it. You have regrets and you have progress. You have no doubt been wronged and done wrong. Been treated well and been good to others. Thats life. We each of us have all of that.

 

You have, like all of us - no choice but to march forward. You cant fight it . You can only pick your own direction and carry only what will help you. Carry the lessons, not the guilt. Forgive yourself and others will stop blaming.

 

Kids are tricky. Whether you feel you should feel guilty or not...dont let them know you are vulnerable to this.

 

Very good points 2sure, thank you.

[ladydesigner]

Is the mother emotionally abusive to the kids? Drinking too much? Maybe she needs time to do some damage control and will get back on her feet. Damn no man is worth your kids. There is no way I would let my H get the better of me if he left to be with another woman. I would 100% be there for my kids. This is really sad.

[Brokenlady]

First, BL, you are responsible for the behavior of your kids, and the MM is responsible for the behavior of his. The idea that both families will live together in harmony, is pure fantasy. You are in for a very bumpy road, and can only expect it to get worse. With respect to you ( I know that it isn't your fault) but your MM is exhibiting a selfish, cowardly nature. He is at fault for pretty much all of the bad feeling, because of his extremely poor handling of the Divorce and affair. There is nothing you can or should do to try to have "closure", or a "truce", with the EXW. This is the MM's responsibility. His kids undoubtedly will play you and the EX off against each other, until he mans up and takes control of the situation. I feel really sorry for you, but there it is. You will be hurt, the kids (both) will be hurt, the ExW will be hurt. So the question should be, wtf is HE doing to make things right? Only you can answer this. I wish you luck.

 

Joe,

I have no such Pollyanna notions of all geting along. But I think we can at least have a civil working relationship for as long as neccessity dictates. His xW will not settle for any resolution that does not involve him returning to her, so how can he possibly resolve things with her to work as coparents? She's completely unwilling to bend on this point. I agree its his responsibility, I'm just not sure it's even possible with her being in the state she's in presently.

 

Right now he is living an honest life. He is trying to learn the lessons of the past on move on to living a better, more honest life. He is genuinely trying to protect his kids. He tries to live a compassionate life and treat everyone around hm better.

[Brokenlady]

Is the mother emotionally abusive to the kids? Drinking too much? Maybe she needs time to do some damage control and will get back on her feet. Damn no man is worth your kids. There is no way I would let my H get the better of me if he left to be with another woman. I would 100% be there for my kids. This is really sad.

 

LD,

She's been in this "pit" for a long time and her demons have been getting the better of her. She's detaching from reality and is delusional at times. He has watched this progression for 2 years in hopes she'd pull it together and it's getting worse by the day. I think he feels he has no choice now, he can't wait for her to pull it together anymore because she just isn't.

 

You're absolutely right no man is worth it. But i think she may be thinking on some level that she can keep slipping and he'll come back to "save" her. I don't think she sees that she may actually lose primary custody. She's just not rational.

[Brokenlady]

Yeah that is too bad they don't want to go to family counseling. What about his kids going to counseling? You sound like a nice woman Brokenlady and I don't doubt that. If my kids were to have a stepmother I would want her to be as protective of them as I am. You sound like a caring mother looking out for their best interest. I hope things can work out without a battle. Kids are so fragile at any age in regards to their love of their parents. I hope things work out in the best interest of the children. Good luck Brokenlady I know you have a tough road ahead of you.

 

I think she's having a hard time seeing past my OW status. So the idea that I might be good to her kids (as opposed to someone else he could be dating) isn't going to mean much. I really hope it doesn't come to a battle too. I guess that why I wonder if there's anything I can do to help her with whatever her concerns are about me so that we can calm all this down.

[JustJoe]

Try as you will BL, you will never understand what this does to teenage kids. Counseling may help a little, but the thing that his kids need the most is a confident, responsible Dad. My mom tried to smooth the waters, but that just made matters worse. You are in a "catch 22", situation. The more concern you show for her kids , the more she will think you are trying to steal their affections. The kids, themselves, are in a vacuum, and desperately need their father for discipline and stability. Rather than compassion, he needs to show some backbone.

[Dexter Morgan]

but if you have some thoughts to share on what I might be able to do to make things better, I'm all ears.

 

nothing. you leave her alone. you, along with her H, have done enough to her.

 

leave her be.

[JustJoe]

BTW, you say that he is trying to be compassionate, but is trying to get primary custody? This is almost unimaginably cruel.

[ladydesigner]

LD,

She's been in this "pit" for a long time and her demons have been getting the better of her. She's detaching from reality and is delusional at times. He has watched this progression for 2 years in hopes she'd pull it together and it's getting worse by the day. I think he feels he has no choice now, he can't wait for her to pull it together anymore because she just isn't.

 

You're absolutely right no man is worth it. But i think she may be thinking on some level that she can keep slipping and he'll come back to "save" her. I don't think she sees that she may actually lose primary custody. She's just not rational.

 

Just keep on going the way you are going, I would just focus on your new family unit. Hopefully one day you all can get past this. Infidelity is awful, but life goes on and we have to keep moving. I feel for everyone in this situation. I hope his XW will realize she needs to be a good mother to her kids and let go of her anger and delusions. Sounds like maybe she needs a break and definitely serious counseling.