Thoughts on fOW making peace with fBS...?

[Dexter Morgan]

From the fBW perspective, this is great advice.

 

It might not make one bit of difference to her or the situation but like BB says, would it really make anything worse?

 

 

Please don't expect a response from her and maybe even expect some immediate backlash, along the lines of "who are you to tell me what to do and don't talk to me."

 

you just demonstrated how it can make it worse. If the BS wants to be left alone, then contacting her will make it worse for her.

 

But I'm beginning to think making things worse for the BS is not a top priority here. I'm quite sure the BS in this scenario wants to be left alone. And if that is the case, then contacting her would not be for the BS's benefit, but rather the person doing the contacting.

[greengoddess]

Yea BL I'm sure his BS has absolutely zero respect for you and would not care about anything you had to say. It would do no good.

[Dexter Morgan]

It'd come off as insincere to her no matter what.

 

you just answered the question of "should I contact her?"

[Snowflower]

you just demonstrated how it can make it worse. If the BS wants to be left alone, then contacting her will make it worse for her.

 

But I'm beginning to think making things worse for the BS is not a top priority here. I'm quite sure the BS in this scenario wants to be left alone. And if that is the case, then contacting her would not be for the BS's benefit, but rather the person doing the contacting.

 

I was taking a stab at what might be said is all. No one knows what this particular BS is really thinking.

 

Since BL is going to be/is involved in the lives of the BW's children, maybe BL extending an olive branch might be good in this case. The xW can accept or ignore as she wishes.

 

I'm giving a different perspective of what the BW might be thinking is all. None of us know her.

 

I would have welcomed a letter of apology from the xOW in my situation. I wouldn't have responded but at least it would have let me know that she was human with feelings and that she acknowledged that I was human with feelings too. It didn't happen and that is fine. But if there had been polite communication from her to me in those early months, I would have heard her out (to a point).

 

BL, if you were to decide to write her, put your return address or whatever you need to so that she knows it is from you. If she doesn't want to read it, then she was forewarned and can discard the letter without reading it if she so chooses.

[JustJoe]

I know that sounds logical from an ow perspective, and in early days when she contacted me, I tried that and it wasn't met well. And for good reason, honestly....how sincerely sorry can I be when I still intend on being with her xh? From her perspective, they would be together if I just got out of the way. What she doesn't know is that I have left him numerous times but he obviously never went back to her. So, for her, the fact that I'm staying with DM continues the exact injury I'm trying to apologize for. It'd come off as insincere to her no matter what.

BL, no amount of contact from you will make the slightest difference to the EXW. In point of fact, anything that YOU are in favor of, she would probably reject out-of-hand, just considering the source, alone. You have good instincts, use them. Don't get involved in the private matters of another family, which is what you are thinking about doing. Deal with your own issues with the fMM, let him deal with his Ex-wife and her behavior to HIS kids, that's part of HIS job as a parent. Getting you involved is just another selfish act on his part. He really hasn't changed, it's still all about him and his desires, You would be much better off with, and deserve , someone better. Edited September 27, 2010 by JustJoe

[JustJoe]

BL, I'm going to be blunt. what do you want to do? Totally destroy that family? You interfered with a MM and look how THAT turned out. So you think that MORE interference will be a good thing? If you involve yourself in the business of other people, are you ready to accept a share of the fault if something really bad happens , as a result? Will you tell the kids that you are contacting their mother? Will you tell the mother what her kids are saying about her, or will you lie to each, in quest of this mythical "cordial ", relationship? Leave it alone, It's NONE of your business!!! Please!!!!

[BB07]

BL, I'm going to be blunt. what do you want to do? Totally destroy that family? You interfered with a MM and look how THAT turned out. So you think that MORE interference will be a good thing? If you involve yourself in the business of other people, are you ready to accept a share of the fault if something really bad happens , as a result? Will you tell the kids that you are contacting their mother? Will you tell the mother what her kids are saying about her, or will you lie to each, in quest of this mythical "cordial ", relationship? Leave it alone, It's NONE of your business!!! Please!!!!

 

JustJoe, you asked what does she want to do, well it's clear from her posting that she doesn't want to cause anymore harm and she'd like to do the best thing she can with the circumstances. What is the point of beating her up about what has already happened??

Whether you like it or not, she is involved and just as long as she is seeing this man, she will be. She can't just back out of it and wash her hands of it, geez....how could anyone do that??? Get real!

 

Seems to me she is trying to do the best she can and wants others input on it so stop cracking her over the head with the past.

[eeyore1981]

I agree that xW has a "right" to be angry. So do I, and any other human being that's been through this hell. And I "understand" occassional slips where she has trouble keeping a lid on it - but this is not occassional slips, it's a purposeful campaign and it's hurting the kids. That's where I believe her "entitlement" ends.

 

Rest assured that more people paid for it than just xW. Her kids are paying for it, I paid dearly for it, and by proxy, so did my kids. My first business is to make things right for my own kids.

 

What sort of effort would repair damage to xW? How in the world could I make it right to her? People here have been emphatic that reaching out to her is a bad idea, so I figure the best I can do is stay away from her, as I always have done.

 

Eeyore, I still have nightmares about all this. If I could go back and do it again, I wouldn't.

 

Just speaking for myself, it's this kind of outlook that starts the head-banging and the so-called bashing of each other in this forum. So let me address just one part of this.

 

BBM

 

I can't offer any guarantees anything you or MM do at this point is ever going to make it right to her. I also don't think you should reach out to her in any way.

 

What I think you could do, in the specific interests of this problem you have posted, is when this comes up with the kids, be honest. Tell these kids the truth about what you and their father did to their mother. Explain to them their mother is hurting and grieving. Help them to understand why their mother is acting this way. You can't change anything this woman is doing, but if you can help her kids understand why she is acting this way, their behavior towards her may change, which may change her behavior.

 

I mean, look at your first paragraph. Everything you say in this paragraph also applies to you, and also to CXH. And no matter how much 'right' you feel you have to be angry, you chose this path, BXW did not, so she is entitled to much more anger over this than you can imagine. Your behavior hurt these kids, and CXH behavior hurt these kids, and the sooner you can own that, the sooner this situation might come to a better resolution. None of you, I repeat, NONE of you were entitled in any way, shape or form to hurt these kids, and pointing the finger at one while ignoring and sweeping under the rug the rest is never going to solve this problem.

[JustJoe]

BB07....... BL , being involved with MM does NOT make her, in any way, responsible for his kids. Their issues are between the MM, the EXW, and the kids. She can be an concerned friend, but nothing more. For her to attempt to contact the EXW and express concern about her (EXW's )treastment of the kids will be bitterly resented by everyone with the possible exception of the MM. I KNOW this from experience. BL, being the "outsider", will end up the badguy, and she doesn't deserve this. That's why I'm think she should not contact the EXW. If you would have read ALL of my posts, you would have seen that I have NEVER blamed her for anything. So get off my back.

[turnstone]

Just speaking for myself, it's this kind of outlook that starts the head-banging and the so-called bashing of each other in this forum. So let me address just one part of this.

 

BBM

 

I can't offer any guarantees anything you or MM do at this point is ever going to make it right to her. I also don't think you should reach out to her in any way.

 

What I think you could do, in the specific interests of this problem you have posted, is when this comes up with the kids, be honest. Tell these kids the truth about what you and their father did to their mother. Explain to them their mother is hurting and grieving. Help them to understand why their mother is acting this way. You can't change anything this woman is doing, but if you can help her kids understand why she is acting this way, their behavior towards her may change, which may change her behavior.

 

I mean, look at your first paragraph. Everything you say in this paragraph also applies to you, and also to CXH. And no matter how much 'right' you feel you have to be angry, you chose this path, BXW did not, so she is entitled to much more anger over this than you can imagine. Your behavior hurt these kids, and CXH behavior hurt these kids, and the sooner you can own that, the sooner this situation might come to a better resolution. None of you, I repeat, NONE of you were entitled in any way, shape or form to hurt these kids, and pointing the finger at one while ignoring and sweeping under the rug the rest is never going to solve this problem.

 

Brilliant post.

 

BL, I really like what Eeyore is saying here, and what she advises about helping her children understand why she's behaving in this way is not only a truly compassionate thing to do, but will pay enormous dividends to you in many ways.

[Brokenlady]

 

What I think you could do, in the specific interests of this problem you have posted, is when this comes up with the kids, be honest. Tell these kids the truth about what you and their father did to their mother. Explain to them their mother is hurting and grieving. Help them to understand why their mother is acting this way. You can't change anything this woman is doing, but if you can help her kids understand why she is acting this way, their behavior towards her may change, which may change her behavior.[\QUOTE]

 

Eeyore,

 

Do you think it's possible to do this without demonizing their father? His xw does enough of that, and I'm concerned about adding to that while I'm excusing their mothers behavior.

 

I'm really not interested in defending who has what entitlement to be angry, nor playing out a contest of who got hurt worst, etc. At the end of the day I know that my happiness is partly built on her misery, and that needn't be repeatedly pointed out. I am well aware of it, and I don't feel good about that.

[Spark1111]

 

What I think you could do, in the specific interests of this problem you have posted, is when this comes up with the kids, be honest. Tell these kids the truth about what you and their father did to their mother. Explain to them their mother is hurting and grieving. Help them to understand why their mother is acting this way. You can't change anything this woman is doing, but if you can help her kids understand why she is acting this way, their behavior towards her may change, which may change her behavior.[\QUOTE]

 

Eeyore,

 

Do you think it's possible to do this without demonizing their father? His xw does enough of that, and I'm concerned about adding to that while I'm excusing their mothers behavior.

 

I'm really not interested in defending who has what entitlement to be angry, nor playing out a contest of who got hurt worst, etc. At the end of the day I know that my happiness is partly built on her misery, and that needn't be repeatedly pointed out. I am well aware of it, and I don't feel good about that.

 

The father should talk honestly and openly to his children about his actions towards their mother. And he should be willing to sit there and get the brunt of their wrath and misery in return.

 

He should apologize for his horrible handling of the aftermath to them.

 

He should then reassure them of his love and devotion to them, and insist they respect their mother that he has hurt so deeply.

 

That is manning up for his previous behavior.

 

You should never offer or be made to feel like you need to fix this, or him, or his kids, or his xW.

 

That, BL, is just more conflict avoidance on HIS part.

 

And ultimately, HE is responsible for the relationship he will have with his kids.

 

Not you. Do NOT make this your problem. It is HIS problem. You can support and encourage him to be a better, more honest, dad to his kids and a gentleman to his xW.

 

But you cannot fix this, so do not even attempt to try. Do not allow someone who avoids conflict, to have you do his dirty work for him.

 

That's a lose, lose, my friend. And you WILL be blamed and hurt by the fallout that should be his alone.

[JustJoe]

 

The father should talk honestly and openly to his children about his actions towards their mother. And he should be willing to sit there and get the brunt of their wrath and misery in return.

 

He should apologize for his horrible handling of the aftermath to them.

 

He should then reassure them of his love and devotion to them, and insist they respect their mother that he has hurt so deeply.

 

That is manning up for his previous behavior.

 

You should never offer or be made to feel like you need to fix this, or him, or his kids, or his xW.

 

That, BL, is just more conflict avoidance on HIS part.

 

And ultimately, HE is responsible for the relationship he will have with his kids.

 

Not you. Do NOT make this your problem. It is HIS problem. You can support and encourage him to be a better, more honest, dad to his kids and a gentleman to his xW.

 

But you cannot fix this, so do not even attempt to try. Do not allow someone who avoids conflict, to have you do his dirty work for him.

 

That's a lose, lose, my friend. And you WILL be blamed and hurt by the fallout that should be his alone.

This post is right on the money. BL most posters are concerned about the kids. the EXW, and about you. We are less concerned about the MM, why? Because this is completely his fault. Both by having an affair, and then his horrible handling of the divorce and it's aftermath. And he is doing the same thing again, he hasn't really changed at all. It is still all about him and his concerns. He is filing for custody because he is worried about The EXW's neglect of the kids, but what has he done to help her? Has he insisted that the kids treat their mom with respect and love, has he attempted to work with her and make sure that she is always involved in their issues? Only you can answer . Has he manned up and taken control, NO!

[thinkfast444]

For me, as a BS, I wanted nothing more than OW to die a slow, and very painful death. Nothing would have made me feel better than to know how miserable and alone and broken she was. My fWH had an A three years ago, and it lasted 5 weeks, and they have been no contact since, but it doesn't make it any less painful. It takes a long time for the hatred a BS has for the OW/OM to lessen (it still hasn't gone away for me). I wanted OW's life to be destroyed, I remember getting on facebook and posting on her wall that she had slept with a married man, sending a private message to all the friends she had on facebook about how their friend liked to sleep with married men, and I even emailed her son and let him know about her behavior (he was old enough, I know it was stupid and thoughtless of me, but I was an emotional disaster, and he even wrote me back and told me that his mom was a slut, she has an affinity for married men, and he moved out of her home because he couldnt take it anymore, and called her a few choice words)...I was willing to do whatever it took to make sure she was as destroyed as I was.

 

 

In your situation, EW has really only come to fully realize the situation a few months ago...Her life has been destroyed. Yes, she may have mental problems, but what really caused these mental problems? Did your MM have anything to do with it? Do you really know what he was like, married to her in the beginning? There is no telling what he was really like, he has lied to you, there is really no way to know what the true relationship was like unless you could rewind time and become a fly on the wall.

 

I would never, even still to this day, want to hear, read, or see anything OW has to say to me. There were days when I couldn't get out of bed, days when all I did was cry, days and days where I could not eat...and I have four children. The pain of an A is unimaginable, and unless you have had it happen to you, you will never be able to understand it. Yes, you have experienced pain, but you knew that you were sleeping with a MM. You knew he had a life and a family and a home. You knew what he was going home to. I find it somewhat self fish of you to talk about your pain in regards to the whole situation. No matter what happened in the marriage, it never excuses an affair, never never never.

 

And, for another viewpoint, my dad had multiple affairs on my mom. When she finally couldnt take it anymore and divorced him, he tried many times to make me and my brother meet his OW. I hated her and wanted to make her life miserable. So I lied to her face, all the time, either good things or bad things, depending on what was going on at the time. I would tell her that my mom said that she was the reason our family broke up, or I would tell her that I thought she was an ugly, homewrecking whore. I would try to make her think I was on her side, only to get more info from her to relay to my mom, even though my mom never asked me to do such a thing. My mom took the high road and never once said anything bad about my dad, even now, she wont really say anything bad. I hate him now more than ever and will never have a relationship with him.

 

Do not try to contact EW. The kids will find out and be upset that you either 1) upset their mother (again), 2) worry about what you said to them that they said to you in confidence and never trust you again and despise you even more, 3) hate their father (if they dont already)

 

Empty, as a BH (4 months since DD) I find your personal story compellingly similar to what I have gone through and your warning of what can go on with the kids absolutely terrifying. I have two teenage kids myself and hope they never find out about the A.

 

Thanks for your insight as it helps to keep things in perspective.

[Brokenlady]

This post is right on the money. BL most posters are concerned about the kids. the EXW, and about you. We are less concerned about the MM, why? Because this is completely his fault. Both by having an affair, and then his horrible handling of the divorce and it's aftermath. And he is doing the same thing again, he hasn't really changed at all. It is still all about him and his concerns. He is filing for custody because he is worried about The EXW's neglect of the kids, but what has he done to help her? Has he insisted that the kids treat their mom with respect and love, has he attempted to work with her and make sure that she is always involved in their issues? Only you can answer . Has he manned up and taken control, NO!

 

Joe,

He has helped her, or at least he tried to. His mixed signals and continued acting in husbandly role after divorce were intending by him to both ease his guilt and her transition. He was unable to hear from anyone that his attempt at help would do more harm than good. He has never spoken an I'll word of his xw to the children, and has attempted to explain his affair to them when they've asked. He has politely pointed out his conern about the kids, all of which was met with great ire. She has attempted to shut him out of school and medical information on the kids for her spite...still instead of yelling at her, he goes around her to do what a responsible parent must.

 

Admittedly he did done awful and selfish things, but some of it was I think misguided attempts to cushion the blow.

[someday]

BL, I wonder why you even ask the question. Every response that is sent your way you have a answer as to why it wouldn't work. Seems to me that you've already have all the answers you want. Seems to me that you keep justifying HIS behavior.

 

You keep saying the same things over and over, do you suppose that might be a bit ‘insane’ as that old definition goes…you know the one “Insanity is doing the same things and expecting different results”….somehow this dance must change. But you are not the one to change it. Listen to these people here, they do have your best interest in mind when they tell you to stay out of it, don’t try to clean up his mess, and leave the xW alone.

 

I really like Eeyores thoughts- which you’ve refused because the TRUTH would make him look bad to his children. Hell, it’s this type of thing that is going to keep biting him in the butt….and will not only reflect on you but will *stick* to you.

[HappyAtLast]

I have been reading over some of the advice being given here. As a father and a former MM, I would not approve of my former affair partner discussing our affair with my young children. That would have been my job.

 

Again, my former affair partner has a wonderful relationship with children, largely because she was wise enough, in the early days, to stay out of issues between my children and myself and / or my former wife.

[Brokenlady]

I have been reading over some of the advice being given here. As a father and a former MM, I would not approve of my former affair partner discussing our affair with my young children. That would have been my job.

 

Again, my former affair partner has a wonderful relationship with children, largely because she was wise enough, in the early days, to stay out of issues between my children and myself and / or my former wife.

 

I tend to agree that this is his domain and it sounds like spark agrees as well.

 

I do my best to stay out of everything concerning xw and the kids. I originally asked whether or not there's a way to make peace with xw bc her anguish is hurting the kids by proxy. As I suspected, it sounds like the general agreement is that DM will have to deal with this all on his own and any effort I'd make to try to help things would only make it worse. I'm very glad to have all these responses, thank you everyone.

[JustJoe]

BL, I hope you are happy in whatever you do, and IMHO it does you credit that you have enough empathy, to be concerned by this situation. Luv Ya, Baby!!!

[someday]

BL, support your BF, I think that's the only and best thing that you can do in this situation. Be good to yourself, too.

[Brokenlady]

For those of you concerned, it seems DM has softened in his stance somewhat. I've discussed at length with him the fallout of him jerking xw around. She will get the custody paperwork in the mail on Monday. Ive advised him to forewarn her because i believe that she thinks he dropped it due to the substantial delay. He will likely suggest joint physical custody rather than seek primary, but he's not telling her that yet in hopes she continues to rectify some of his concerns. Hopefully they'll reach some agreement later this month.

[Dexter Morgan]

He will likely suggest joint physical custody rather than seek primary.

 

and thats would only be fair seeing as he is the cheater in the marriage.

 

that would be a fine how do you do....cheat on your spouse, then take their kids away from them (oh wait, I know how that feels)

[wheelwright]

and thats would only be fair seeing as he is the cheater in the marriage.

 

that would be a fine how do you do....cheat on your spouse, then take their kids away from them (oh wait, I know how that feels)

 

I am sorry that happened to you.

[wheelwright]

For me, as a BS, I wanted nothing more than OW to die a slow, and very painful death. Nothing would have made me feel better than to know how miserable and alone and broken she was. My fWH had an A three years ago, and it lasted 5 weeks, and they have been no contact since, but it doesn't make it any less painful. It takes a long time for the hatred a BS has for the OW/OM to lessen (it still hasn't gone away for me). I wanted OW's life to be destroyed, I remember getting on facebook and posting on her wall that she had slept with a married man, sending a private message to all the friends she had on facebook about how their friend liked to sleep with married men, and I even emailed her son and let him know about her behavior (he was old enough, I know it was stupid and thoughtless of me, but I was an emotional disaster, and he even wrote me back and told me that his mom was a slut, she has an affinity for married men, and he moved out of her home because he couldnt take it anymore, and called her a few choice words)...I was willing to do whatever it took to make sure she was as destroyed as I was.

 

 

In your situation, EW has really only come to fully realize the situation a few months ago...Her life has been destroyed. Yes, she may have mental problems, but what really caused these mental problems? Did your MM have anything to do with it? Do you really know what he was like, married to her in the beginning? There is no telling what he was really like, he has lied to you, there is really no way to know what the true relationship was like unless you could rewind time and become a fly on the wall.

 

I would never, even still to this day, want to hear, read, or see anything OW has to say to me. There were days when I couldn't get out of bed, days when all I did was cry, days and days where I could not eat...and I have four children. The pain of an A is unimaginable, and unless you have had it happen to you, you will never be able to understand it. Yes, you have experienced pain, but you knew that you were sleeping with a MM. You knew he had a life and a family and a home. You knew what he was going home to. I find it somewhat self fish of you to talk about your pain in regards to the whole situation. No matter what happened in the marriage, it never excuses an affair, never never never.

 

And, for another viewpoint, my dad had multiple affairs on my mom. When she finally couldnt take it anymore and divorced him, he tried many times to make me and my brother meet his OW. I hated her and wanted to make her life miserable. So I lied to her face, all the time, either good things or bad things, depending on what was going on at the time. I would tell her that my mom said that she was the reason our family broke up, or I would tell her that I thought she was an ugly, homewrecking whore. I would try to make her think I was on her side, only to get more info from her to relay to my mom, even though my mom never asked me to do such a thing. My mom took the high road and never once said anything bad about my dad, even now, she wont really say anything bad. I hate him now more than ever and will never have a relationship with him.

 

Do not try to contact EW. The kids will find out and be upset that you either 1) upset their mother (again), 2) worry about what you said to them that they said to you in confidence and never trust you again and despise you even more, 3) hate their father (if they dont already)

 

 

Bitter? Or what is it that makes you hate another human being who was probably hurt also?

[bentnotbroken]

For me, as a BS, I wanted nothing more than OW to die a slow, and very painful death. Nothing would have made me feel better than to know how miserable and alone and broken she was. My fWH had an A three years ago, and it lasted 5 weeks, and they have been no contact since, but it doesn't make it any less painful. It takes a long time for the hatred a BS has for the OW/OM to lessen (it still hasn't gone away for me). I wanted OW's life to be destroyed, I remember getting on facebook and posting on her wall that she had slept with a married man, sending a private message to all the friends she had on facebook about how their friend liked to sleep with married men, and I even emailed her son and let him know about her behavior (he was old enough, I know it was stupid and thoughtless of me, but I was an emotional disaster, and he even wrote me back and told me that his mom was a slut, she has an affinity for married men, and he moved out of her home because he couldnt take it anymore, and called her a few choice words)...I was willing to do whatever it took to make sure she was as destroyed as I was.

 

 

In your situation, EW has really only come to fully realize the situation a few months ago...Her life has been destroyed. Yes, she may have mental problems, but what really caused these mental problems? Did your MM have anything to do with it? Do you really know what he was like, married to her in the beginning? There is no telling what he was really like, he has lied to you, there is really no way to know what the true relationship was like unless you could rewind time and become a fly on the wall.

 

I would never, even still to this day, want to hear, read, or see anything OW has to say to me. There were days when I couldn't get out of bed, days when all I did was cry, days and days where I could not eat...and I have four children. The pain of an A is unimaginable, and unless you have had it happen to you, you will never be able to understand it. Yes, you have experienced pain, but you knew that you were sleeping with a MM. You knew he had a life and a family and a home. You knew what he was going home to. I find it somewhat self fish of you to talk about your pain in regards to the whole situation. No matter what happened in the marriage, it never excuses an affair, never never never.

 

And, for another viewpoint, my dad had multiple affairs on my mom. When she finally couldnt take it anymore and divorced him, he tried many times to make me and my brother meet his OW. I hated her and wanted to make her life miserable. So I lied to her face, all the time, either good things or bad things, depending on what was going on at the time. I would tell her that my mom said that she was the reason our family broke up, or I would tell her that I thought she was an ugly, homewrecking whore. I would try to make her think I was on her side, only to get more info from her to relay to my mom, even though my mom never asked me to do such a thing. My mom took the high road and never once said anything bad about my dad, even now, she wont really say anything bad. I hate him now more than ever and will never have a relationship with him.

 

Do not try to contact EW. The kids will find out and be upset that you either 1) upset their mother (again), 2) worry about what you said to them that they said to you in confidence and never trust you again and despise you even more, 3) hate their father (if they dont already)

 

 

Wow I am so sorry you still feel this way. I pray you find the peace you need.