Need to make a choice

[jj33]

Thanks guys,

 

as far as my dad explained to me, seeing as we are not married we would both have to sign a voluntary acknowledgement of paternity form for him to be listed as a father on the birth certificate. I think it's safe to say he won't sign anything of the sort.

 

If I still want him to be listed on the birth certificate I need to file a court adjudication. That way I can then seek out child support, but he can also seek out his rights and I think he would do it just to spite me. My dad says it's very risky.

 

If I file a restraining order against him it will get to his wife, and right now thats another batch of drama for me. Plus it might drive him over the edge... as someone already mentioned he is not just some ex, he is the father of my child and he can control me with this.

Right now even supervised visits are not comfortable to me, plus my dad says he can file a motion against me and if I have a case pending in court I won't be able to move or leave the country apparently.

 

Even if I want to communicate only through my lawyer, he needs to know what we are negotiating and right now I really don't know?

 

Whenever I see a future with him in our lives it's very grim... fights and court and it's scary. I want a nice peaceful life for my child, you know?

 

These statements are inconsistent and untrue.

 

Your lawyer can tell him to stay away from you or else a whole world of hurt will rain down on him. That is not a negotiation and not something you can tell him yourself.

 

He can only control you as the father of this child if he wants anything to do with the child. He doesnt. I think that is where you are struggling. You are imaging that he will love the child as you do and want to be a part of its life. Right now he doesnt.

 

Getting a TRO now puts you in control. If your lawyer is involved, then the BS wont be able to contact you either because if she does then a TRO will be taken out against her.

 

If everything you have said is true you must tell your father and his lawyer/colleague everything immediately. If the lawyer doesnt do anything then you need a new lawyer.

 

If this is all true, not telling may haunt you going forward in ways you cant even imagine.

[noelle303]

Oh for crying out loud, you wont tell your parents, you wont get a TRO, you wont tell the wife. What do you want then? The next time you see him, tell him you had a miscarriage. Move, change your number and be done with him.

 

Unless you're still enjoying his attention, albeit negative.

 

I still say tell the wife. Tell her he is stalking you and threatening to harm your baby. No mother will allow any man to hurt a pregnant woman.

 

Your posts get more and more suspicious.

 

I'm glad you find it all so simple, however here in my world things are a little bit more real.

 

If his wife finds out he will have nothing to lose. The jig will be up and yes, I am scared that he might try to seek out ''revenge'' via the baby. He controls me in a way that he has access to something most important to me. And he won't leave me alone until he makes sure that I won't go after him with court orders or child cupport.

I'm sure he won't kill me or anything, he just wants to make sure he will have nothing to do with this baby. If I don't go after him with this, he won't go after me with seeking rights.

 

I don't understand why people are judging us that we want to go about this without restraining orders and such?

 

 

These statements are inconsistent and untrue.

 

Your lawyer can tell him to stay away from you or else a whole world of hurt will rain down on him. That is not a negotiation and not something you can tell him yourself.

 

He can only control you as the father of this child if he wants anything to do with the child. He doesnt. I think that is where you are struggling. You are imaging that he will love the child as you do and want to be a part of its life. Right now he doesnt.

 

Getting a TRO now puts you in control. If your lawyer is involved, then the BS wont be able to contact you either because if she does then a TRO will be taken out against her.

 

If everything you have said is true you must tell your father and his lawyer/colleague everything immediately. If the lawyer doesnt do anything then you need a new lawyer.

 

If this is all true, not telling may haunt you going forward in ways you cant even imagine.

 

1. Then you misunderstood me.

 

2. I absolutely know he doesn't. Sadly.

I'm not hoping for a relationship, I'm not still sleeping with him, I know he won't ever change his mind about the baby.

 

3. I told my lawyer everything. He suggested a restraining order but I refused.

He also suggested if I want him out of our lives to have him sign Voluntary termination of parental rights form and he will be free from this. So will I. This prevents me from ever seeking child support but right now money is nowhere as important to me as mine and my baby's peace.

[desertIslandCactus]

I'm still for avoiding him - and making the decision at another time.. It appears he would be getting his way with the intimidation and harrassment he is doing now. But I can appreciate your priority best interests in wanting to protect yourself and the your child.

 

And if he signed relinquishing any rights to the child, how could a court give him visitation later ..

[desertIslandCactus]

What about some second legal opinions (family law) Noelle. Many attorneys give free telephone conferances.

[jj33]

Noelle Im sure your parents have discussed this with you but if you get the TRO hes not going to physically harm you. Thats the whole idea of a TRO.

 

If he violates it he will have either civil or criminal consequences. No matter how upset he may be, he doesnt want to go to jail over this.

 

You got good advice and I am surprised your parents arent adamant that you follow it.

 

TRO means no more drama. The jig is indeed up for him. He only threatens etc so long as he has something to protect. Once his W knows he has to face the music and he will be SO busy fixing that he is unlikely to bother you other than through lawyers who will deal with your lawyers and you will be out of it.

[jj33]

And I know what I am talking about as I have seen these situatoins more times than I would have liked to. Your situation is not totally unusual. Its not common but it happens with some frequency.

[desertIslandCactus]

 

 

3. I told my lawyer everything. He suggested a restraining order but I refused.

He also suggested if I want him out of our lives to have him sign Voluntary termination of parental rights form and he will be free from this. So will I. This prevents me from ever seeking child support but right now money is nowhere as important to me as mine and my baby's peace.

 

So, is the reason you do not want the restraining order - because you are afraid his wife will find out - and this will create an in - to the baby's life.

 

Assuming your attorney is correct about Voluntary termination of parental rights and making the man out of yours and the baby's life forever .. I don't know if forteiting support is worth the fact that most probably this 'man' may be back - unless you always Enforce a restraining order...

[BellaBellaBella]

If your in the states you cannot terminate your rights until after the child is born. There is often a waiting period as well. If your in the states you can easily find out what the waiting period is on adoption.com

 

My child was adopted and they were able to terminate the rights to after 24 hours.

[porter218]

Perhaps if you REALLY wanted to be done with all of this is tell him it isn't his child and tell him to leave you the heck alone. No matter what I highly recommend you get distance between you and him!! I had a stressful pregnancy with my daughter that resulted in a 9 almost 10week premature birth. I was lucky that she was unbelievably healthy for preemie but you might not be as lucky. Even if he doesn't physically touch you again this stress he is causing you can be just as bad. Worrying about paternity, child support, his parental rights and such are premature at this point. You really should tell your dad the whole truth and stop wishing for your MM to come around and love you again. He isn't a great catch in any way shape or form. I do understand that you don't wish to stir things up right now with restraining orders so you need to at least tell someone about whats going on. Please please be safe and protect your baby.. he is likely to not actually fight you for his parental rights or to keep you from moving or leaving the country. These are all empty threats and scare tactics. The one threat that does need to be taken seriously is about the him cutting you open to terminate this pregnancy.

Best of luck to you!

[pureinheart]

Hi Noelle,

 

I know your scared and your stress levels are very high...been there way too many times to even want to think about.

 

My suggestion would be not to act in emotion (which is really hard right now), although to act in logic.

 

From what you have communicated MM is a coward. He is picking on someone he perceives to be weaker than himself (oh how sadly mistaken he is). Deal with this logically and rationally.

 

I have found when dealing with bullies and cowards, one must retain an equalizer. I am not sure what yours would be, mine have been different according to need. I am certain you need intervention of some sort.

 

Telling his W would not be good, this would complicate matters, and it would make you look bad IMO as far as aggitation goes. In the eyes of the law, we are to put situations such as these in the hands of the law. Telling her would not be doing this.

 

You and your baby will win, you are a winner.

[Ellin]

The one threat that does need to be taken seriously is about the him cutting you open to terminate this pregnancy.

 

I totally agree. This is an absolutely repulsive thing to say.

 

You don't know what he might do. He may not do anything to you himself, but he might get someone else to do it. It's not very likely as it could put him into more trouble, but you just never know how far he might go. He's been acting in an awful manner ever since he found out about this pregnancy.

 

And yes, the stress hormones can harm the baby and they have real negative effects on its physical and mental development as well as on your body's ability to successfully cope with pregnancy.

 

Please do more to keep you both safe.

[naya1]

hmm noelle..u seem like a smart girl whos got it all. why did u have to meddle with a married man? how come he didnt use condoms and u didnt use birth control?

u said he had 2 sons a 10 year plan and the whole 9 yards, was it ok for u initially that u were going to destroy that? i dont get it.

being a single mom is no easy feat. u may hear a lot of moms saying having a kid is the best thing on earth blah blah...it isnt true. especially if ur a single mom. u would rather have no kids yet or have a kid w/a partner/husband to help u raise the child. we cant deny that that is the best environment although in some cases not all kids can have that.

anyway i dont advocate violence especially now that you are pregnant, you need to be stress free. taking your prenatal vitamins and be with positive people. he doesnt have to be in ur life.

although ur kid has the right to financial support, i think this wil keep bringing hostility into ur life (from the married man). so u have to think if u really want that.

[seren]

hmm noelle..u seem like a smart girl whos got it all. why did u have to meddle with a married man? how come he didnt use condoms and u didnt use birth control?

u said he had 2 sons a 10 year plan and the whole 9 yards, was it ok for u initially that u were going to destroy that? i dont get it.

being a single mom is no easy feat. u may hear a lot of moms saying having a kid is the best thing on earth blah blah...it isnt true. especially if ur a single mom. u would rather have no kids yet or have a kid w/a partner/husband to help u raise the child. we cant deny that that is the best environment although in some cases not all kids can have that.

 

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but it has happened and it has become horribly nasty, and the main thing is for Noelle and her baby, who sounds very wanted by Noelle and her supportive family, to be safe, keep safe and for the man to own his part in all this, or for him to leave her alone and stop acting like she got pregnant all by herself and then to be such a bully about it. He sounds like a bloody maniac and frankly, not fit to be a parent.

Edited September 26, 2010 by seren
buggered up the quote thing

[pureinheart]

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing - but it has happened and it has become horribly nasty, and the main thing is for Noelle and her baby, who sounds very wanted by Noelle and her supportive family, to be safe, keep safe and for the man to own his part in all this, or for him to leave her alone and stop acting like she got pregnant all by herself and then to be such a bully about it. He sounds like a bloody maniac and frankly, not fit to be a parent.

 

No lie, and I think he does have kids with his W, no? This is the true meaning of coward IMO.

[desertIslandCactus]

I can sure see where Noelle is coming from ..

 

His harrassing, intimidating and abusive ways make her want to forgo any future support just to get him Away from her.

 

Even if she were to live safe with her parents for now - she still has to come and go.

 

If she were to forfeit support and the attorney to have him sign the agreement - Then if he continued to contact her - she could get the restaining order, and nothing he (or his wife) could do about about the baby..

 

I just hate to see Noelle forfeit any future support at this time..

[fooled once]

He DOESN'T WANT this child to exist.

 

His words and actions so far have taken away his moral rights as a father, and they have diminished his legal rights in some degree (can't say what degree as I don't know the law of the particular place Noelle is in), if the evidence of that was presented in court.

 

Anyhow, in most civilised societies these days, parents don't have particular RIGHTS to the child - it's more of a responsibility, although they are entitled to make certain decisions for the child, but this is based on their conduct. In family courts it's all about the rights and welfare of the CHILD - the court takes into account first and foremost what is in the best interest of the child, not the parents.

 

I'm sure that Noelle wants the same for her precious little bundle.

 

Have you ever dealt with family court? It doesn't sound like it from what you advise.

 

1. Unless ACTION is taken and reported, a court doesn't give a crap about he said/she said. Police reports, medical reports, etc are what the courts consider. Going to the police and saying "he said he was going to hurt me" won't mean squat without proof. That means I can walk into a police station and say anything I want and get someone in trouble. Ridiculous. The police will tell you that without PROOF, words are words. That is why it is so hard for abused women, who have no 'proof' (bruises, 911 calls, written documents, etc) get turned away. The police can take action when there is proof, not words. Call a local police station and ask them.

 

2. Actually, people do have RIGHTS to a child - some are called VISITATION RIGHTS. A non-custodial parent has them and there is little a custodial parent can do. A custodial parent MUST BY LAW give the non-custodial parent access to the child. The non-custodial parent doesn't have to accept those RIGHTS, but the custodial parent must abide by them. A biological father, who hasn't been deemed unfit, does have RIGHTS to his child. They have the right to see them, make decisions for them, etc. Again, seek out a family law lawyer and they will confirm this.

 

 

BTW, threatening to kill you is considered a terrorist threat...he needs to go to jail, and I rarely advise that and actually never have before.

 

Actually, it isn't a TERRORIST threat. It is a threat. People don't got to jail for making threats on another person, UNLESS that person is the President (in the US). People threat others all the time; you see it on TV, the news, etc. "If you touch my child, I will kill you"; "If you touch my wife, I will kill you". Those are not terrorist threats.

 

Noelle,

 

That voluntary termination of parental rights might be a good idea. If you think it will keep him off your case, do it.

 

No court that I'm aware of would ever consider it to be a legally binding document if you are in the states (sounds like you are). I'm surprised your attorney has suggested that and not advised you of that. Perhaps it doesn't hold true where you live.

 

In the court's eyes, a child deserves two parents to support him. You can't terminate another person's parental rights, only the court can. The courts are usually only willing to do this if there is another person willing to take responsibility for the child (besides you) such as an adoptive parent (a husband, a significant other).

 

Anyway, it could be a good idea, because I think if you decided to seek support later on, that the document could be overturned with relative ease. Even if it has legal validity (which I suspect not), it was signed under duress. But that's just my opinion.

 

Many states will NOT allow a parent to terminate their rights UNLESS there is another person ready to step up and adopt the child. I agree with you that this document would not hold up in court.

 

This man is pissed off right now. Whose to say when the child is born, he may not change his mind. Heck, many women who plan to give up a child for adoption change their mind once a baby is born.

 

Like many others, I do not understand why the OP continues to talk to this man who she states is really pissed off. Again, I am shocked that mediation has not been discussed. Noelle has no need to talk to the father of the child - her lawyer can do that. Shocked again that the lawyer is not stepping up and doing that and that her own father isn't demanding that she stop communicating with him.

 

I also think she hasn't told her parents about everything because maybe - MAYBE - in the back of her mind, she is hoping he leaves his wife and starts a family with her. IMHO, that is why she is continuing to talk to him and deal with him.

[jj33]

Excellent excellent post Fooled.

 

This thread shows the dangers of getting advice on very serious matters over the internet from people who dont know the subject matter. Those of you who are saying you dont think she should get a TRO or take other formal action obviously dont know what Fooled knows.

 

In any event Noelle NOONE thinks you should continue to speak to MM.

[jthorne]

This whole thing is too fishy for me. Granted, I don't have children, nor have ever been pregnant, but I can guarantee that if I decided to keep a baby, that baby's safety would be the most important thing on my mind. If the baby daddy threatened my baby, I would be seeking legal help via TRO, attorney involvement, police involvement- EVERYTHING would be on the table, including calling the wife. And I certainly wouldn't be speaking to him.

 

Yet here we are, trying to figure out if a man who has made it ever so obvious he doesn't want the child will try to get visitation or cause legal problems.

 

Does this make any sense to anybody? Doesn't to me.

[jj33]

My point exactly. Its a fantasy to think hes going to violate a TRO.

 

And in years to come if he wants rights thats another story today, as the story is told a TRO is the only thing that makes sense for today.

[porter218]

Really people?? Have you ever had a really crazy person in your life? It is hard to say that TRO will keep him from harming her. It could stop him but it also could enrage him and leave him in a desperate state with nothing to lose. We do not know him or know what he is capable of and neither does she so we can't make that judgment at all.

[jj33]

Porter shes dealing with a guy with a family and a career. Hes not going to throw it all away on her. He thinks he can bully her.

 

If she really thought she was in danger, as opposed to simply being harrassed Im sure she would have followed her lawyers advice and Im sure her parents would have take action. She just doesnt want to stop the interaction, thats why shes not having her lawyer handle it. She apparently thinks that if she continues to be in contact with him, he will come around.

 

If its all true, then she simply hasnt told them all the details. As the weeks go on, he knows shes not getting an abortion and will be more and more desparate anyway. Shes no safer without a TRO and she far safer in the long run with one.

[porter218]

Porter shes dealing with a guy with a family and a career. Hes not going to throw it all away on her. He thinks he can bully her.

 

 

If its all true, then she simply hasnt told them all the details. As the weeks go on, he knows shes not getting an abortion and will be more and more desparate anyway. Shes no safer without a TRO and she far safer in the long run with one.

 

Yes he has a family and a career.,,,but when the TRO is served he is likely to lose at least one if not both. Then how desperate and scary do you think he can get?

I think she does need to discuss this with her parents and also with her local family crisis center. That will at least have this abuse documented for future use in any legal issues over the baby if needed. Not to mention the valuable advice these experts will give her. They will recommend a TRO but also advise her that TRO's aren't always the answer because when it comes down to it it is just a piece of paper and she needs a plan for when he 'loses it'. All that comes to mind when reading OPs posts is all those men who have been killing pregnant spouses or OW in the past few years. Its real and very scary. People from all walks of life and with plenty to lose become violent when backed into a corner...she shouldn't assume his lifestyle makes her safer then others.

OP...please google 'Family Crisis Center' and find your local one and call asap!! Do not waste any time

[noelle303]

This whole thing is too fishy for me.

 

Then don't reply. Seriously, you say this in literally every one of your posts and I have enough problems in my life without having to justify myself to you.

 

It's fishy. Why? Because I do not act in a way you would have acted in my situation? Because my parents aren't acting the way you would have in their situation?

You aren't even trying to understand my worries and that it isn't so simple for me.

 

Really people?? Have you ever had a really crazy person in your life? It is hard to say that TRO will keep him from harming her. It could stop him but it also could enrage him and leave him in a desperate state with nothing to lose. We do not know him or know what he is capable of and neither does she so we can't make that judgment at all.

 

Exactly my worries. I want to protect this baby more than anything. You may not trust me on this but I do, you have no idea what sort of worries go through my head daily. Not my worries that he will kill me or anything of the sort (personally I find his threats a desperate man's empty words) but what will happen after the baby is born. I don't want him in our lives, he doesn't want, love or even care about this baby. I don't want restraining orders, his family, or him using the baby to get back at me for ruining his life.

 

I believe that if I tell him he will never hear from me again and he can go on with his little american dream life he will leave me alone. He is harassing me now because he is scared I will ruin things for him.

 

It means that my child will never have any reference to its father, no child support it deserves and he gets off scott free (which angers me a bit). So yes, it makes me incredibly sad and depressed. Not sad for myself, I don't care if he never so much as spits in my direction again, but sad for my baby.

[noelle303]

hmm noelle..u seem like a smart girl whos got it all. why did u have to meddle with a married man? how come he didnt use condoms and u didnt use birth control?

u said he had 2 sons a 10 year plan and the whole 9 yards, was it ok for u initially that u were going to destroy that? i dont get it.

being a single mom is no easy feat. u may hear a lot of moms saying having a kid is the best thing on earth blah blah...it isnt true. especially if ur a single mom. u would rather have no kids yet or have a kid w/a partner/husband to help u raise the child. we cant deny that that is the best environment although in some cases not all kids can have that.

anyway i dont advocate violence especially now that you are pregnant, you need to be stress free. taking your prenatal vitamins and be with positive people. he doesnt have to be in ur life.

although ur kid has the right to financial support, i think this wil keep bringing hostility into ur life (from the married man). so u have to think if u really want that.

 

 

I got pregnant while I was switching birth control methods. Yes, should have been more careful but stupidly thought I was ''invincible''. Vision was a little bit blurred back then, as far as I saw it I was having some careless fun with someone I really liked. I can see a bit more clearly now that my bubble has been burts.

 

Karma is a bitch, huh?

 

I need to become used to the fact that this is what I will be explaining to people for the rest of my life now. This affair can never be just something in my past.

 

 

 

Thanks guys for the advice about my pregnancy. I know that this is SO not healthy and this is why I have so many bad symptoms. I'm trying to ger as much rest as possible but I am dealing with so much, schoolwork, work, moving and on top of it all the ******* exMM.

 

And then I become even sadder that this is all hurting the baby... which in turn hurts the baby. Vicious cycle

[Ellin]

Have you ever dealt with family court? It doesn't sound like it from what you advise.

My case haven't gone to court so far, although it might well happen at some point, therefore I've spent a lot of time looking into these things and getting legal advice wherever possible, so I know exactly how it works in the country I live in.

1. Unless ACTION is taken and reported, a court doesn't give a crap about he said/she said. Police reports, medical reports, etc are what the courts consider. Going to the police and saying "he said he was going to hurt me" won't mean squat without proof. That means I can walk into a police station and say anything I want and get someone in trouble. Ridiculous. The police will tell you that without PROOF, words are words. That is why it is so hard for abused women, who have no 'proof' (bruises, 911 calls, written documents, etc) get turned away. The police can take action when there is proof, not words. Call a local police station and ask them.

I'm not sure why you're going on about this in response to my post, as this is exactly what I stated - if his actions were presented in court, Noelle would have a strong case against him. Of course it has to be documented, that's why I advised her to record her conversations with him and call the police whenever he harasses her. Her communication with the police will be recorded somewhere and it is a sort of evidence in itself, it can be used to obtain restraining order, which in turn is further evidence of his unreasonable behavior that could be used in future proceedings.

2. Actually, people do have RIGHTS to a child - some are called VISITATION RIGHTS. A non-custodial parent has them and there is little a custodial parent can do. A custodial parent MUST BY LAW give the non-custodial parent access to the child. The non-custodial parent doesn't have to accept those RIGHTS, but the custodial parent must abide by them. A biological father, who hasn't been deemed unfit, does have RIGHTS to his child. They have the right to see them, make decisions for them, etc. Again, seek out a family law lawyer and they will confirm this.

Again, where I live these are the rights of a CHILD to have both parents involvement in his/her life. Exactly like I said earlier, family courts takes into consideration what is in the best interest of the child and no one else.

 

So if the non-custodial parent wants access he/she will get it in most cases, because this is considered beneficial for the child. Therefore, if he/she doesn't measure up to certain standards of behavior, the access won't be granted.

 

In case such as this a lot has already been done by this MM to deem him an unfit parent, if it could be proven in court. Also, if in future he causes problems to the OP by demanding constant control just for the sake of causing trouble, it could also be used against him, because it would clearly show that his motivation wouldn't be the good of the child.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Ellin