He's planning to leave her...

[TRaczaj]

The last couple days here have been really interesting... Unfortunately I don't have time to go into all the details right now because I have to leave soon.

 

It's amazing how an injury and a lot of drinking can affect things.

 

I agree with the last two posts though, about what other people are saying. I wish my Mom and her Mom and my sister would keep those comments to themselves to be honest. Because it does just remind me that I wasn't her choice and that I probably won't ever be.

[TRaczaj]

Ok... so Friday night she went out with some of her friends, and came home completely bombed. Her friend helped her get to the door an inside the house, but then had to leave. And I'll point out right now that this is not something she does very often. I mean, I've seen her go out and and come home with a good buzz on, but I've only even seen her this drunk one other time.

 

So, her friend helped her into the house, and then left. And I went into the kitchen to make sure she was alright... she was going to make herself some coffee and I told her her just to sit down and let me make it. So as the coffee was brewing she started getting sick, so I handed her a bag and held her hair while she threw up. I couldn't have helped her get to the bathroom in time since I'm on crutches right now. (Long story.) After that she was feeling a little better. She drank some coffee and then went to sleep in the living room. She doesn't sleep in the bed they slept in together most nights. She's been sleeping on the couch. She she went to sleep on the couch and I stayed in the living room with her for a while, just to make sure she was ok.

 

 

Then... next day (yesterday.) There's this festival that a big group of us always go to. It's tradition. I wasn't sure if she would want to go. For one, I was expecting her to wake up with a massive hangover. And for two, he (her current ex) always went too, and I figured maybe going might bring back too many memories and be too emotional for her.

 

But, she woke up the next day feeling fine, and she told me she was going, but didn't think I would want to go (because of my injury.) But I was still planning on going... crutches or not. If I can go to work on crutches, then I can play on crutches too.

 

So, everyone shows up here at the house, and we left, three car loads of people.

 

We got there, and I was alright for the first couple of hours. But I could tell they wanted to move at a faster pace walking around then I could. And I should have known that walking around long term on crutches was going to get exhausting. There was a bar area there where people were just sitting around drinking. So I told everyone I would hang out there for a while, and this really surprised me, but she decided to stay there with me.

 

So, her and I sat at this bar outside at this festival and just talked and drank for like 3 hours. We thought the rest of the people we went with would be checking in periodically, but they didn't. They just all seemed to forget about us. I didn't care at all though, because I was loving it.

 

Then on the way home we were all pretty tired... Her and I rode in the back on my friend's car. I was glad we rode together on the way back because on the way there we rode in two separate cars. So anyway, we were in the back seat of my friend's car on the way back and she fell asleep. She was stirring around trying to find a comfortable position and she laid her head on my shoulder. I dozed off too eventually and when I woke up her and i were cuddled up pretty good. I can't really explain what position we were in, but she was practically laying on me.

 

Yesterday was great... It really was. There's nothing I would have changed about it. But I don't know if she feels the same.

 

I just thought I would update everyone on what's been going on...

[You Go Girl]

That's really sweet.

And if the two of you are never a couple, some other girl is going to like leaning on you to take a little nap, comfortable, cozy, safe, and secure. EVen better, loved.

[whichwayisup]

T! Don't read into it. Don't let this get to your head. Obviously she likes you, cares about you .. But, as a friend. Don't let yourself go off on fantasy with hopes.. She trusts you and figures you won't make a move on her during this time. So don't!

[TRaczaj]

T! Don't read into it. Don't let this get to your head. Obviously she likes you, cares about you .. But, as a friend. Don't let yourself go off on fantasy with hopes.. She trusts you and figures you won't make a move on her during this time. So don't!

 

I won't... I want to, but I won't. Last night in the car when we both were waking up she put her head up and looked me dead in the eyes. It took a lot of will power not to kiss her.

 

When we were sitting in the bar it felt so much like we were together. But I know that was only in my head. I know she was looking forward to this for weeks. And I was really flattered that she was willing to basically give it up to sit in the bar with me for most of it. She might have just felt sorry for me though. I was hobbling around all day on curtches.

 

My friend won't even talk to her without being hostile. He acts like he's so angry at her and he really doesn't have any reason to be.

[dreamingoftigers]

You know what? He left her. Tough ****.

 

My ex pulled the same thing with me 6 weeks before we were supposed to get married. I was devastated. It felt like a huge hole in my life. The first guy that hit on me was my roommate and I really wasn't into him and shot it down right away. No biggie. Girls are used to being asked out, it really shouldn't affect things.

 

Then I met my husband. He listened, he made me laugh and he pursued me like no tomorrow despite what I was going through. The most important points were that he was physically close with me, because that is the hardest part for a girl to get through is losing the physical affection. If you are there in an affectionate way for her, then that is a MAJOR IN.

 

And quite frankly us girls could use more guys that are actually into us, in love with us etc instead of the loser guys that just want to use them for sex or have no idea what they want anyways. Go get her!

 

Be affectionate, listen and be a friend.... for about a week. Then let her know you find her really sexy and attractive. (She will be feeling insecure about this since her man just left her and they have been dating for awhile). Even let her know that you have a fantasy about her every now and then and say your best friend is an idiot for giving up on that.

 

Go get her before Mr. I-go-mental-and-dump-you-every-now-and-then decides he misses the good stuff. Or before Mr. Rebound-sex shows up.

 

I married my "rebound"

[TRaczaj]

You know what? He left her. Tough ****.

 

My ex pulled the same thing with me 6 weeks before we were supposed to get married. I was devastated. It felt like a huge hole in my life. The first guy that hit on me was my roommate and I really wasn't into him and shot it down right away. No biggie. Girls are used to being asked out, it really shouldn't affect things.

 

Then I met my husband. He listened, he made me laugh and he pursued me like no tomorrow despite what I was going through. The most important points were that he was physically close with me, because that is the hardest part for a girl to get through is losing the physical affection. If you are there in an affectionate way for her, then that is a MAJOR IN.

 

And quite frankly us girls could use more guys that are actually into us, in love with us etc instead of the loser guys that just want to use them for sex or have no idea what they want anyways. Go get her!

 

Be affectionate, listen and be a friend.... for about a week. Then let her know you find her really sexy and attractive. (She will be feeling insecure about this since her man just left her and they have been dating for awhile). Even let her know that you have a fantasy about her every now and then and say your best friend is an idiot for giving up on that.

 

Go get her before Mr. I-go-mental-and-dump-you-every-now-and-then decides he misses the good stuff. Or before Mr. Rebound-sex shows up.

 

I married my "rebound"

 

Lol... you said the first guy to hit on you was your roommate. I'm her roommate.

 

It's been hard to not be affectionate with her. I don't know where the boundaries are and I don't want to cross them. :last night when we were in the car and I woke up, I really wanted to wrap my arms around her.

 

I like your comments about girls wishing more guys were actually into them and not just wanting sex. I wondered if she would think I was just after sex... since I've slept with her before.

 

I don't want to miss my chance with her again. She deserves someone who isn't going to go mental and dump her just because. I'm still so conflicted though, because he is my friend.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I don't want to miss my chance with her again. She deserves someone who isn't going to go mental and dump her just because. I'm still so conflicted though, because he is my friend.

 

Yes but my roommate was someone tht actually really got on my nerves and I had no physical attraction to him whatsoever. Tell her the above statement, but solidify that you are there for her first. She is vulnerable, this is true, but that could be what gets you out of being friendzoned as well.

[TRaczaj]

Ok... I got sent home from work today because we ran out of parts to run. My whole team had to leave.

 

And I'm sitting here feeling so depressed. There was no specific thing that made me feel this way, just everything.

 

I can honestly say I've never wanted anything in my life as bad as I want her... And I don't even have the guts to tell her. And I'm worried about my friend.... He's not even the same person anymore. It's like he did a complete 180. He acts like a complete jerk to everyone, including me and including her. He's worse to her then to anyone and she doesn't deserve it at all.

 

I shouldn't say I don't have the guts to tell her... I just don't know how to tell her. But I think I have to. I'll always regret it if I don't.

 

I feel like crap. I want to go sit in the bar and get drunk even though it's the middle of the day.

[whichwayisup]

I can honestly say I've never wanted anything in my life as bad as I want her... And I don't even have the guts to tell her. And I'm worried about my friend.... He's not even the same person anymore. It's like he did a complete 180. He acts like a complete jerk to everyone, including me and including her. He's worse to her then to anyone and she doesn't deserve it at all.

 

I sense alot of resentment towards him from you, on her behalf.

 

Remember, your friend had a nervous breakdown and is depressed. He is not in any sort of shape, or frame of mind that is healthy right now. BOTH of you have to understand that, and do reading up on it. She should too. It isn't about HER, it's all about him. She has done nothing wrong. Those who are depressed badly and are cycling, take it on those closest to them.

 

Be alittle bit more understanding and sympathic. Or, could it be he thinks something happened between you two and that's why he's acting MORE jerkish than usual? Just a thought. He may be depressed, but he isn't stupid. Maybe he saw the way you look at her. Who knows.

[TRaczaj]

I sense alot of resentment towards him from you, on her behalf.

 

Remember, your friend had a nervous breakdown and is depressed. He is not in any sort of shape, or frame of mind that is healthy right now. BOTH of you have to understand that, and do reading up on it. She should too. It isn't about HER, it's all about him. She has done nothing wrong. Those who are depressed badly and are cycling, take it on those closest to them.

 

Be alittle bit more understanding and sympathic. Or, could it be he thinks something happened between you two and that's why he's acting MORE jerkish than usual? Just a thought. He may be depressed, but he isn't stupid. Maybe he saw the way you look at her. Who knows.

 

He had a nervous breakdown a few years ago too though. This is his second one. He didn't act like this then.

 

I will do some research... I meant to before now, but it just kept slipping my mind.

 

There is some resentment toward him... I'll admit it. He's an absolute mess mentally, he can't keep a job, and now he's treating the few people in his life who stuck with him through all this like crap.

 

There was one specific event that caused his breakdown... and truthfully I don't even understand how. But maybe I'll figure that out when I read up more on the subject.

 

It's possible he suspects something is going on between her and I... He is really intelligent. I mean that too. He has a genius level IQ, he's definitely a lot smarter then I am. He knows I'm attracted to her, which has made me question why he moved out and left me alone here with her. He doesn't know I'm in love with her... unless he figured that out on his own. I've never told him.

Edited October 12, 2010 by TRaczaj

[carhill]

OP, have you ever wondered why these hot mess people have so many orbiters? It's interesting how distance and a calm accounting can affect one's perspective. I was once a hot mess addict myself so offer this observation from that perspective. It's always interesting how those people muddle through and they're always fine. Anyway, that's my way of telling you to look out for yourself and don't lose sight of yourself in the midst of all this 'investing' in this whatever it is. Be healthy

[TRaczaj]

OP, have you ever wondered why these hot mess people have so many orbiters? It's interesting how distance and a calm accounting can affect one's perspective. I was once a hot mess addict myself so offer this observation from that perspective. It's always interesting how those people muddle through and they're always fine. Anyway, that's my way of telling you to look out for yourself and don't lose sight of yourself in the midst of all this 'investing' in this whatever it is. Be healthy

 

I've never heard the term Hot Mess Addict before, but I think I know what you mean...

 

Who is a hot mess addict in all this? Him? Me? Her...?

[carhill]

Drama addict might also be appropriate; hot mess just sounds more interesting . Examine the person here who is getting little/no attention nor concern for their needs. That would be you. Unhealthy imbalance. You're in charge of how you balance things. FWIW, I once thought my approach (very similar) was balanced, healthy, and loving. LOL, couldn't have been more wrong. Life's a great teacher. Sometimes you just have to go through it. I wish you well

[TRaczaj]

Yes, Drama Addict is what I thought. But you're right, hot mess does sound more interesting.

 

The person being put first in this is my friend. And he acts like he doesn't even care. He got out our other friend to let him move in. He doesn't contribute to any of the bills, he's not looking for a job, he doesn't do anything around the house, and yet he gets to stay there for free because of what he's going through. When she goes to see him he acts like a jerk to her. When I got to see him he doesn't even come out of the bedroom most of the time. It's like all these people are trying to help him get through this, and he's oblivious.

 

I am dead last in this. I find myself dead last in most situations. When I was growing up my parents used to tell me all the time "It's not about you." I think this imprinted itself onto my conscience as an adult... because I usually do put everyone else ahead of myself. It's all I've ever known. I'm sure I could break the habit, but it would be hard.

 

And she has always been last in their relationship. I've seen it a lot, especially over the last few years. I've seen her work two jobs to support them when he wasn't working, sometimes more than 60 hours a week. I've seen her have to clock out and leave work to come home and comfort him during some mental episode. She was even willing to indulge his fantasies of seeing her with another guy.

[carhill]

I'll bet she 'hates' drama, too. I'll bet you've heard her say those words. I'll bet you've heard a lot of things. That feeds your part in this triangle.

 

In my case, MC and a divorce snapped me out of my unhealthy cycle. I see those people for who they are now. Not for me

[TRaczaj]

I'll bet she 'hates' drama, too. I'll bet you've heard her say those words. I'll bet you've heard a lot of things. That feeds your part in this triangle.

 

In my case, MC and a divorce snapped me out of my unhealthy cycle. I see those people for who they are now. Not for me

 

Yea, I have heard her say that, several times...

 

I'm glad you got through it.

[TRaczaj]

So... today she came home from work and we were talking. She said something that surprised me.

 

They had some pretty big plans for Halloween weekend. And today, since he's obviously not interested anymore, she asked me if I wanted to join her that weekend.

 

Of course I was on cloud nine and told her I would love to. But now I'm wondering why she asked me. I've been accused so many times of over analyzing things. All this is running through my head now... does she like me now or does she just want someone (anyone) with her that weekend? I don't expect anyone here to know, since you all don't know her.

 

Tonight she helped me do dishes after we ate and the whole time we're laughing and joking around. I haven't seen her like that since before they broke up. It was good to see her happy again (or at least acting the part.)

 

Anyone have any words of wisdom?

[carhill]

In similar circumstances with different women over the last thirty years, I'm batting 100% being their backup plan. This doesn't mean I didn't have a great time and I presume so did they, but it never became more than a backup plan. Hope you fare better. IMO, each day you remain the steadfast self-sacrificing friend, the more you will solidify that role. Try an experiment....flirt with her on Halloween but don't do anything overtly sexual. Then pull back. See what happens.

 

In the meantime, occupy yourself with other things. Avoid remaining in constant contact. Heck, two weeks isn't any time for friends to go without seeing or talking to each other. I'm sure she has lots of other friends to share with. You do the same. Good luck

[amy12344]

You gotta listen to your head rather than your heart on this one - it's TOO SOON to cross any lines with your buddy's ex. It's just not right, not matter how much you want/love her.

 

What advice would you give to someone else in your EXACT situation? Probably similar to the above?

 

I know, it's much easier said than done.

[TRaczaj]

It would really be hard to avoid contact with her for very long, we live together.

 

So if I flirt with her on Halloween and then step back what is supposed to happen? Anything?

 

I know I probably sound like a complete novice in all these... but I haven't dated a lot. I had a girlfriend my senior year of High school for 6 months... then in my early twenties there was another one for nine months, then in my late twenties there was one more, 11 months. So I guess, in a lot of people's eyes I am still a novice. She isn't... all the relationships I've ever been in combined wouldn't even be as long as the relationship she just got out of.

[carhill]

For general consumption, he's had sex with her while she was with his buddy. Plenty of lines have already been crossed.

 

The lady is staying true to her feelings. She's holding nothing back. Limiting herself in no way. This is healthy. The OP, OTOH, is exhibiting, IMO, unhealthy balance. He is not being true to his feelings. He is holding back. Limiting himself. Sacrificing himself. That's patently unhealthy and unfair to him.

 

If I found myself in such a situation again, I'd say to the friend straight up 'I can't be with you in any way other than a romantic way. If that means I can't be with you, then that's what it means. I have to respect and care for myself. If you're any kind of friend, you'll respect that' Then, if appropriate, say goodbye. Life's too short.

 

BTW, I've done this. Best decision I ever made.

[carhill]

It would really be hard to avoid contact with her for very long, we live together.

 

So if I flirt with her on Halloween and then step back what is supposed to happen? Anything?

 

If she flirts back and you experience a connected and fun dynamic, since Halloween is supposed to be fun, accept that. OTOH, if she finds your behavior unacceptable, in the vein of 'I don't feel *that* way about you', then give her the speech. Personally, at that point, I'd move out, whatever it took.

 

These limbo situations have a way of going on and on and on. Look, you live with her. She's had sex with you. She knows how she feels about you, regardless of whether she was/is with your 'buddy' or not.

 

BTW, be careful of signs of unhealthy attachments with her (to your 'buddy' and others), especially if her 'past' is markedly different than your own, and it sounds like it is. For me, now, that's a huge red flag, regardless of how I feel. A great life lesson is feeling attraction and love but knowing that you and someone are incompatible and accepting that a relationship won't be healthy for either of you.

 

You'll work this all out. My bet is you'll likely sacrifice yourself some more. That's OK. I learned the hard way too. Don't waste too many years on it. Life's short.

[TRaczaj]

What signs of unhealthy attachemnt should I be watching for?

 

Her past isn't that different from mine. She's just had more experience dating then I have (Which is really no big thing, most people have more experience then I do, lol.)

 

We actually have a lot in common, past and present.

 

Funny thing, our Moms went to high school together and didn't get along. Our Moms hated each other in high school, but her Mom really likes me and my Mom really likes her... funny. Sorry for rambling...

[carhill]

The 'classic' unhealthy attachment is the girl waiting by the phone for the guy to call, letting her feelings for the guy take over her life. Or, more closely related to your dynamic, the girl who's dumped doesn't accept it, doesn't believe it, and knows, if she tries hard enough and loves deep enough and long enough, he has to see that they are meant to be together.

 

My biggest problem with women of vastly different backgrounds was my ineffectiveness in understanding and dealing in a healthy way with their psychologies. I didn't (and don't) have the proper social tools to deal with people who've been immersed in drama and abuse, especially from a young age. YMMV. You may have those tools or her background and yours may be similar. I think such similarities are important.

 

Anyway, a lot can happen in a couple weeks. Don't put money down on Halloween with her. It it works out, cool. If I were in that circumstance, I'd have a plan B. Things go sideways and I just move on with a smile.