Update: Not Dating American Women Anymore

[CD111]

I have read through most of this thread and found it very interesting in a few aspects.

 

#1, I have been in relationships with numerous men who REFUSED to let me pay for anything, either for myself or for the both of us. Initially I would offer on a regular basis because I want to show them that I appreciate that they pay for me, thought it was another way I could contribute to the relationship and hey I have a good job and make decent money why would I not offer to pay sometimes.

 

One of the would actually get upset when I offered to even buy him and myself a beer. I eventually stopped offering to pay. I just don't get it! Apparently, there are throngs of men on LS that would like for women to offer to pay, but apparently there are definitely a some out there that do not.

 

#2, I also agree that our culture has become slightly warped over the last 50 yrs. Yes, many women are superficial and materialistic. How many fathers are out there that treat their little girls like princesses and the girls get everything that they want. How many families are out there where the parents are not home enough and they fill their childrens emotional void of not having their parents around with things? Not saying that's the only contributing factor but I can definitely understand why this is so.

 

Personally, I think contributing to a relationship with ones time, money and strengths ( cooking, organization....pretty much anything) is really important and normal. I am having a really hard time believing that there are so many women out there that don't feel the same way or are so out of sync with what men value as important contributions.

 

Maybe this is why so many look at me like I have grown another head when I tell them that I don't have a problem contributing financially to a long term relationship as much as the man, I don't expect a free ride from anyone...lol.

 

BTW...I was born in a foreign country and raised with european values.

[theBrokenMuse]

Oh? and this is not speculating in the guise of "wondering"?

Nope. It was offering an alternative to the previous premise that her actions had to be based solely on her non-American 'culture'. It can easily be a personality trait for the reasons previously mentioned.

 

you found it necessary to make a negative spin to an act that is positive.

So? Are you going to suggest there can't be negative things about a positive act? Once again, shall we all refrain from bringing up any possible unpleasantries simply because they don't give us warm and fuzzy feelings?

 

Ah..exactly...and you felt the need to put a negative spin to it.

You seem to be implying that I was suggesting that if she were the type who overextends herself in order to please another it would imply that she had to be purposefully scheming which simply is not the case. She would most likely really like him in both cases... the only difference would be if her actions were based on personality type as opposed to cultural programming. People really need to stop getting so touchy.

 

Projecting, much?

I don't think that term means what you think it does as there is nothing highlighted here to apply this to...

 

 

be happy for others who are not bogged down by numbers .

Which mean I should be happy for myself then... YAY ME!!! Edited September 29, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[amerikajin]

Any chance that reason is that she was the best woman you met?

 

I'll put it this way: even among the Asian females I have known -- and I have known many over the years -- my wife is extraordinary. I don't know of many women who would be as flexible and supportive as she has been to me. She's an easygoing person. She just wants me to be happy. So it's really probably more about her, the individual, than just her culture. But I won't lie, her culture probably does have something to do with shaping her personality. She was reared to be humble and supportive. Whereas I think not that many Asian women would be quite as cool as my wife, I guess I would expect even fewer American women to do what she has done -- but then again, I could be wrong.

 

I can only compare my wife to the only other serious relationship I've ever had in my life: an American woman who was a divorced mother. Now granted, this might not be a fair comparison, as my ex had major issues coming out of her divorce that perhaps an unmarried woman might not have had, although I had been rather unimpressed with the dating scene here up to that point. But in that relationship I always felt like I was having to fight for control, like I was always competing with her -- or rather, like she was always competing with me. I felt like she was always trying to keep up with me in areas where she felt inadequate and that she was trying to best me in other facets of life. She was the opposite of my wife: she was not at all supportive, and she was rigid. Now, in all fairness to my ex, I can look back and acknowledge that I was not as mature then as I am now. Even so, I wouldn't marry her today, either.

 

p.s. Yes, I'm bragging about my superhuman wife. Just let me enjoy my honeymoon period before I find out that she's actually mortal.

Edited September 29, 2010 by amerikajin

[Lovelybird]

I'll put it this way: even among the Asian females I have known -- and I have known many over the years -- my wife is extraordinary. I don't know of many women who would be as flexible and supportive as she has been to me. She's an easygoing person. She just wants me to be happy. So it's really probably more about her, the individual, than just her culture. But I won't lie, her culture probably does have something to do with shaping her personality. She was reared to be humble and supportive. Whereas I think not that many Asian women would be quite as cool as my wife, I guess I would expect even fewer American women to do what she has done -- but then again, I could be wrong.

 

I can only compare my wife to the only other serious relationship I've ever had in my life: an American woman who was a divorced mother. Now granted, this might not be a fair comparison, as my ex had major issues coming out of her divorce that perhaps an unmarried woman might not have had, although I had been rather unimpressed with the dating scene here up to that point. But in that relationship I always felt like I was having to fight for control, like I was always competing with her -- or rather, like she was always competing with me. I felt like she was always trying to keep up with me in areas where she felt inadequate and that she was trying to best me in other facets of life. She was the opposite of my wife: she was not at all supportive, and she was rigid. Now, in all fairness to my ex, I can look back and acknowledge that I was not as mature then as I am now. Even so, I wouldn't marry her today, either.

 

p.s. Yes, I'm bragging about my superhuman wife. Just let me enjoy my honeymoon period before I find out that she's actually mortal.

I know this is a bit off topic, but your post helped me to better understand my roommate. she IS very competitive, as if trying to show she is better than me. So I feel like I have to guard my heart all the time and keep my distance, otherwise I will be manipulated and harmed. i guess some people are like that, maybe not a culture thing ? but surely I don't like it !

[hoping2heal]

How wonderful for you that you found something that works.

 

How unfortunate that you still feel you have to bash an entire subset of women in order to make that announcement.

 

I second this. I do all of that and I'm American. I've dropped 3 hours to help him with work related stuff, more than once. I love him and I'm happy to help. I have my own job, I'm in college and I don't expect that he pays everything. I put lots of time into planning nice little surprises for him, etc. I'm glad you found someone who floats your boat, but A) Your post quite frankly comes off a little bit bitter and B) Don't lump us all together. Maybe YOU haven't had the best experience dating American women, that doesn't mean there aren't good ones out there.

[nddb]

I'll put it this way: even among the Asian females I have known -- and I have known many over the years -- my wife is extraordinary. I don't know of many women who would be as flexible and supportive as she has been to me. She's an easygoing person. She just wants me to be happy. So it's really probably more about her, the individual, than just her culture. But I won't lie, her culture probably does have something to do with shaping her personality. She was reared to be humble and supportive. Whereas I think not that many Asian women would be quite as cool as my wife, I guess I would expect even fewer American women to do what she has done -- but then again, I could be wrong.

 

 

Wait...why are you talking about my wife?

 

J/K. I too marry an Asian woman after dating for years on the East Coast and West Coast. May be it has something to do with contemporary American culture but I couldn't find one with the sense of commitment, devotion and care that I put into the relationship. I refuse to believe all women who were brought up in contemporary American culture are self-centered and self-entitled princesses--there must be good ones out there but I couldn't find ONE after 11 years of SERIOUS dating.

 

I met my wife and literally proposed within months. Holy molly. What a difference. And I agree with other posters about don't stereotype any women. Period. Including American or foreign born women. They are all individuals.

 

My wife is no push-over, she controls the household budget, and she has a temper at times but her rock-solid belief in marriage and her dedication to our children and to us made her a super-amazing wife. She's college-educated, and while I run the business, she runs our family finance flawlessly. And she still fits in her college clothing after nearly 20 years of marriage, which I don't complain about at all (I actually wouldn't mind if she puts on a few pounds...)

[Woggle]

My wife traveled abroad quite a bit in her twenties and I think it shows. She does not have the typical American woman mentality. She is no pushover either because I know if I ever cheated on her she would be out the door in a heartbeat. She lived with a guy once and discovered he was cheating and the locks were changed and his stuff was on the porch the next day when he got home from work but she also has no problem appreciating and respecting a man that treats her well. She values commitment and faithfullness and knows how to have a healthy and lasting marriage. It is hard to find a woman like that these days especially if a man looks within this culture.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'll put it this way: even among the Asian females I have known -- and I have known many over the years -- my wife is extraordinary. I don't know of many women who would be as flexible and supportive as she has been to me. She's an easygoing person. She just wants me to be happy. So it's really probably more about her, the individual, than just her culture. But I won't lie, her culture probably does have something to do with shaping her personality. She was reared to be humble and supportive. Whereas I think not that many Asian women would be quite as cool as my wife, I guess I would expect even fewer American women to do what she has done -- but then again, I could be wrong.

I can only compare my wife to the only other serious relationship I've ever had in my life: an American woman who was a divorced mother. Now granted, this might not be a fair comparison, as my ex had major issues coming out of her divorce that perhaps an unmarried woman might not have had, although I had been rather unimpressed with the dating scene here up to that point. But in that relationship I always felt like I was having to fight for control, like I was always competing with her -- or rather, like she was always competing with me. I felt like she was always trying to keep up with me in areas where she felt inadequate and that she was trying to best me in other facets of life. She was the opposite of my wife: she was not at all supportive, and she was rigid. Now, in all fairness to my ex, I can look back and acknowledge that I was not as mature then as I am now. Even so, I wouldn't marry her today, either.

p.s. Yes, I'm bragging about my superhuman wife. Just let me enjoy my honeymoon period before I find out that she's actually mortal.

 

I don't really believe in coincidence. I think you jumped into the dating pool and married the best woman you found.

 

It makes sense that she isn't from mainstream culture.... because those women are on average not quality. Despite some notable exceptions.

 

I've experienced the competition issue in many relationships... and while not exclusively a North American thing, I would say its very, very common.

 

I second this. I do all of that and I'm American. I've dropped 3 hours to help him with work related stuff, more than once. I love him and I'm happy to help. I have my own job, I'm in college and I don't expect that he pays everything. I put lots of time into planning nice little surprises for him, etc. I'm glad you found someone who floats your boat, but A) Your post quite frankly comes off a little bit bitter and B) Don't lump us all together. Maybe YOU haven't had the best experience dating American women, that doesn't mean there aren't good ones out there.

 

That's great! If you also faithful, honest, and loving... then you break the mold.

 

Now look around you and realize that those women are usually not good catches. They tend to be a mix of lazy, entitled, selfish, and dishonest.

 

Also... don't think that I'm bitter. The truth is that I am really just disappointed. My home country used to produce fantastic people. Now it's a factory pumping out simply awful people and trying to label them as awesome.

[threebyfate]

I'll put it this way: even among the Asian females I have known -- and I have known many over the years -- my wife is extraordinary. I don't know of many women who would be as flexible and supportive as she has been to me. She's an easygoing person. She just wants me to be happy. So it's really probably more about her, the individual, than just her culture. But I won't lie, her culture probably does have something to do with shaping her personality. She was reared to be humble and supportive. Whereas I think not that many Asian women would be quite as cool as my wife, I guess I would expect even fewer American women to do what she has done -- but then again, I could be wrong.

 

I can only compare my wife to the only other serious relationship I've ever had in my life: an American woman who was a divorced mother. Now granted, this might not be a fair comparison, as my ex had major issues coming out of her divorce that perhaps an unmarried woman might not have had, although I had been rather unimpressed with the dating scene here up to that point. But in that relationship I always felt like I was having to fight for control, like I was always competing with her -- or rather, like she was always competing with me. I felt like she was always trying to keep up with me in areas where she felt inadequate and that she was trying to best me in other facets of life. She was the opposite of my wife: she was not at all supportive, and she was rigid. Now, in all fairness to my ex, I can look back and acknowledge that I was not as mature then as I am now. Even so, I wouldn't marry her today, either.

 

p.s. Yes, I'm bragging about my superhuman wife. Just let me enjoy my honeymoon period before I find out that she's actually mortal.

I'd be curious how much you hold yourself to the same bar, as you hold women or your wife. From your posts on LS, your personal bar for self is way, way lower.

[GooseChaser]

My wife traveled abroad quite a bit in her twenties and I think it shows. She does not have the typical American woman mentality. She is no pushover either because I know if I ever cheated on her she would be out the door in a heartbeat. She lived with a guy once and discovered he was cheating and the locks were changed and his stuff was on the porch the next day when he got home from work but she also has no problem appreciating and respecting a man that treats her well. She values commitment and faithfullness and knows how to have a healthy and lasting marriage. It is hard to find a woman like that these days especially if a man looks within this culture.

I'm glad you found the one for you, Woggle! That is wonderful!

[Anela]

I'll put it this way: even among the Asian females I have known -- and I have known many over the years -- my wife is extraordinary. I don't know of many women who would be as flexible and supportive as she has been to me. She's an easygoing person. She just wants me to be happy. So it's really probably more about her, the individual, than just her culture. But I won't lie, her culture probably does have something to do with shaping her personality. She was reared to be humble and supportive. Whereas I think not that many Asian women would be quite as cool as my wife, I guess I would expect even fewer American women to do what she has done -- but then again, I could be wrong.

 

I thought this was normal, though. Who doesn't want their partner to be happy?

[Anela]

My wife traveled abroad quite a bit in her twenties and I think it shows. She does not have the typical American woman mentality. She is no pushover either because I know if I ever cheated on her she would be out the door in a heartbeat. She lived with a guy once and discovered he was cheating and the locks were changed and his stuff was on the porch the next day when he got home from work but she also has no problem appreciating and respecting a man that treats her well. She values commitment and faithfullness and knows how to have a healthy and lasting marriage. It is hard to find a woman like that these days especially if a man looks within this culture.

 

Maybe it's just that I've been raised here, and in England, but I don't see why this would be such a hard thing to achieve. There are an awful lot of women over here who would be described by this post - maybe not the international travel, but everything else. I know it describes me.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Wait...why are you talking about my wife?

J/K. I too marry an Asian woman after dating for years on the East Coast and West Coast. May be it has something to do with contemporary American culture but I couldn't find one with the sense of commitment, devotion and care that I put into the relationship. I refuse to believe all women who were brought up in contemporary American culture are self-centered and self-entitled princesses--there must be good ones out there but I couldn't find ONE after 11 years of SERIOUS dating.

I met my wife and literally proposed within months. Holy molly. What a difference. And I agree with other posters about don't stereotype any women. Period. Including American or foreign born women. They are all individuals.

My wife is no push-over, she controls the household budget, and she has a temper at times but her rock-solid belief in marriage and her dedication to our children and to us made her a super-amazing wife. She's college-educated, and while I run the business, she runs our family finance flawlessly. And she still fits in her college clothing after nearly 20 years of marriage, which I don't complain about at all (I actually wouldn't mind if she puts on a few pounds...)

 

Again... I don't believe in coincidence. Too many guys have this experience. I think within a year or so I'll be on the bandwagon.

[Woggle]

I know this is not all women but too often this is what men get when they marry a woman from this culture. You hear stories like this time and time again and you wonder why men get so jaded.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t247584/

[tami-chan]

Nope. It was offering an alternative to the previous premise that her actions had to be based solely on her non-American 'culture'. It can easily be a personality trait for the reasons previously mentioned.

 

LOL...I guess anything can be speculated-you just happen to think of the worse.

 

So? Are you going to suggest there can't be negative things about a positive act? Once again, shall we all refrain from bringing up any possible unpleasantries simply because they don't give us warm and fuzzy feelings?

 

Well, if making a negative spin makes you happy, by all means...you seem good at it!

 

 

You seem to be implying that I was suggesting that if she were the type who overextends herself in order to please another it would imply that she had to be purposefully scheming which simply is not the case. She would most likely really like him in both cases... the only difference would be if her actions were based on personality type as opposed to cultural programming. People really need to stop getting so touchy.

 

Correction: I was not implying...I believe you were suggesting it.

 

I don't think that term means what you think it does as there is nothing highlighted here to apply this to...

 

Well, I think you were probably projecting how you are-you know, the motivations the drive you to do "nice" things to others.

 

 

Which mean I should be happy for myself then... YAY ME!!!

 

Good for you! Some people are happy sowing negative stuff!

[tami-chan]

tami or any other asians on this board, please correct the following if Im wrong. In China, most people don't like her, like we don't like Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Kim kardashian, etc. But, now let's compare. all three of the American girls I mentioned have no talent at all. All three are constantly getting away with every type of bad behavior. Ziyi Zhang married a guy 11 years older than her and possibly committed fraud (which all 3 american girls probably do everyday in some way). Women in other countries are held to a higher standard IMO. Hear they are put on a pedestal BECAUSE they are women. However, men put them on that pedastal often.

 

Classof2014, first, I do not know much about Ziyi Zhang. Personally, I do not understand the hoopla about her..she looks ordinary (dime a dozen in far east Asia)-and the movie that made her famous? God, every other movie in China is like that. Again, I do not understand what's so special about it or her.

 

Second, what do you mean "higher standard"? in what way?

[amerikajin]

I'd be curious how much you hold yourself to the same bar, as you hold women or your wife. From your posts on LS, your personal bar for self is way, way lower.

 

I've never had any complaints. My partners don't cheat on me...probably because I don't drive them insane.

[classof2014]

@Tami-Chan: You proved my point exactly. There is not much special about Ziyi Zhang. She's in the "Why is he/she famous/considered hot group?"Heck, my good friend looks better than her and with a lot less makeup. However, compared to people in America that are in the "Why is he/she famous/hot?" group Ziyi Zhang has done more than almost all of them. That is what I am referring to as the higher standard. In America, we view people like Lindsay Lohan the same as the Chinese view Ziyi Zhang. Both view them as mediocre actresses, people that get what they want through looks, and people that are immoral. Now let's compare the lists of sins.

 

Zhang:

 

1. Married a guy 11 years older that isn't even that bad looking. Im sure money was a big factor but its not like he was 85 years old or something. 11 years isn't a big deal.

2. Charity fraud scandal. However, most charity groups are fraudulent whether people admit it or not. For example, MADD executives make about $350,000-$400,000 per year. While that isn't direct fraud, most charities aren't as great as them seem to be. Now, if Ziyi Zhang did commit fraud she should face the consequences but compared to what most American girls do, it doesn't seem so bad.

3. Was caught being intimate with her husband on a secluded beach (Isn't intimacy sort of a point of marriage LOL?)

 

Lindsay Lohan:

1. Horrible actress (Ziyi Zhang isn't great, but compared to Lohan she's Robert De Niro)

2. She's considered "hot" in America (she was recently in Maxim) and she looks so washed up, you would think Keith Richards is her dad or something.

3. 2 DUIs, cocaine possession, doesn't show up to court, complete disregard for the legal system and in maxim, she even admits that women have power because of their bodies. Most men like her would be in jail for years. However, sadly Lindsay is just one of many celebrities just like her:

 

megan fox (can't act to save her life and I think Ziyi is better looking and Megan fox is considered the hottest chick in the USA which is like saying the best player in little legue and comparing it to MLB)

 

Ashton Kutcher (see above)

 

Britney Spears: My dad is a composer and he says her songs are basically computer recordings and that she has no real talent. She also went on a Lindsay like road

 

Paris Hilton-She needs no intro. LOL

 

Nicole Richie-see Paris

 

Kim Kardashian-famous for having a dad that let a murderer get off and making a sex tape

 

Etc. Etc.

 

I can't name one famous asian actress even close to the above.

 

That's what I am referring to when I say higher standard.

 

*

[threebyfate]

I've never had any complaints. My partners don't cheat on me...probably because I don't drive them insane.

That's because you pick partners with no self-esteem.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I've never had any complaints. My partners don't cheat on me...probably because I don't drive them insane.

 

That's a low blow dude

[Star Gazer]

That's because you pick partners with no self-esteem.

 

Are you suggesting that only those with no self-esteem remain faithful?

[tigressA]

Are you suggesting that only those with no self-esteem remain faithful?

 

I think TBF is suggesting that because one's partner has low self-esteem, they also have a very high threshold for annoyance, being criticized, etc. They'll take just about anything from their partner lying down without being "driven insane".

[OceanGirl]

I think TBF is suggesting that because one's partner has low self-esteem, they also have a very high threshold for annoyance, being criticized, etc. They'll take just about anything from their partner lying down without being "driven insane".

 

Exactly

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'd be curious how much you hold yourself to the same bar, as you hold women or your wife. From your posts on LS, your personal bar for self is way, way lower.

 

This comment is based on what? I've read nothing that would prompt me to believe you have any kind of point.

 

So.... What exactly are you implying? Because with the knowlege I currently have... this question makes no sense.

 

Classof2014, first, I do not know much about Ziyi Zhang. Personally, I do not understand the hoopla about her..she looks ordinary (dime a dozen in far east Asia)-and the movie that made her famous? God, every other movie in China is like that. Again, I do not understand what's so special about it or her.

Second, what do you mean "higher standard"? in what way?

 

I've actually made a similar point. As a nation we almost never hold women accountable for their actions. Look at Andrea Yates... she drowned her 5 kids in a bathtub.... and the media squarely blamed her husband. Called him a control freak and abusive. Both seem untrue with a cursory investigation. Point of fact... now she doesn't even have to go to prison for it.

 

The problem is that when you expect nothing from a person... often times you get nothing in return.

[Citizen Erased]

I've never had any complaints. My partners don't cheat on me...probably because I don't drive them insane.

 

I cannot believe you said that. Wow.