Disconnect between emotional attachment and obvious reality!!

[MorningCoffee]

Well, I tried. A few weeks after D-Day, I asked her not to contact me any more until she’d divorced. Backstory is here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t229550/

 

I did my grieving (big time!), I got busy working on my life, I deleted all traces from cell, computer, I put the mementos in storage, I moved, I joined a gym, I spent time with friends, I continued counseling. Three months of no contact and I was doing great!

 

But I still couldn’t let go completely because – my heart insisted that wasn’t it possible still that maybe she’d get on her own, and then there’d be a chance to see if our “amazing connection,” etc., could actually go somewhere?

 

Five months into no contact, and I had driven myself nuts, just beside myself with not knowing what was going on with her. What would it take for me to let go completely? Maybe if I heard from her that we really had no chance, then I could move on. But did I really dare to break no contact?

 

My counselor advised me that I had made so much progress generally, that even contact would not be ‘fatal,’ and if it was helpful, great, and if it was not, I would recognize it, get away from it, and be better off for it. So with guidance from my counselor, I thought more about what I wanted out of the contact and how I would deal with this or that response. I thought I was prepared. I called her. I fully expected her to either reject my call and not even answer, or to tell me they were reconciling and to leave her alone.

 

Surprise. Things were bad enough at home that when I called I reached her at a girlfriend’s in another state where she’d gone for a break. She told me she felt the same as she had when we were in our affair, that she loves me, and our deep connection has not weakened. I was taken by surprise, confused, not sure how to take it, but of course my steely resolve not to let my emotional guard down was obliterated by her response.

 

I mulled this over for a few weeks, and then called to tell her I wanted her to know that I did want her back in my life if it became possible, i.e., she had herself sorted out and out of her marriage. Did not ask for any reply or anything. She has never made any promises of that kind to me, had always been straight with me. I did not press her, I just wanted her to know.

 

I should have left it at that. But, no. Like an addict, I craved more contact. We talked on the phone twice in the next month, and two more recently. Two she initiated, two I did. Mostly just pleasant, nothing too personal or about their marriage or about our relationship.

 

But light contact has proved to be too much for me. The other night, I emailed her, asking for any actions as opposed to words. Her reply was that she won’t answer my questions, she loves me, she’s there if I need her, but she would like me to stop pursuing her. Not stop loving her, just stop pursuing her.

 

OK, I must stop. It hurts. I know I have to decide for myself that waiting and hanging on are not acceptable uses of my precious time on this earth. That she is not “all in” for me no matter how often she professes to love me deeply.

 

And the claim that she is there if I need her? Right. What about my need to know the truth of what is in her mind, so I can move on?

 

Yes, I guess the truth is right there in front of me. But how do I reconcile my emotional attachment with what I know logically? There is such a disconnect.

 

Why can't I convince myself emotionally that we have no chance?

 

Thoughts? Support? Advice?

[Star_Bright]

Wow, I feel for you. For a little while you were right back into the affair but then when you pressed her for actions, she asked you to leave her alone. Well, there's your answer. If you were seeking this answer or closure by contacting her, you have it. At least that's a positive thing that has come from this. You know she is not ready to take actions to end her marriage and be with you. Perhaps she will never be ready. So you need to really and truly end it. Put her behind you because she cannot give you what you want. And never ever contact her again because you know there is no reason to and it will only lead to more grief. If she does get divorced, she knows how to find you. If not, you don't want her in your life and it doesn't sound like she wants you in her life if you are going to pressure her to leave. Let her deal with her issues on her own. I'm sorry, I know this is hard, but I think you sound strong enough to do it! You have to leave her in your past. Good luck. One foot in front of the other is the only way to finish the race... don't look back my friend.

[Circular]

Know the pain, know it to well and too fresh right now....Feel for you.

 

Just the other day my six month NC counter had to be reset myself, and it wasn't even initiated by me. Go figure the result was something like 'nevermind'

 

What's left is confusion, pain and more confusion (did I say confusion?) Being an MM though I've learned my lesson but why did she re-open the wound? It's hard to understand these things. Maybe she wanted to know that I was still there for her, or would be if needed.

 

Thing is you can make the choice to go back to NC and take charge of your life again and move forward. Why wait for her to figure out her mess? I can glean from your writing that you are a very 'own my life' type person and you're doing all the right things. Some relationships are harder to let go of, especially if what we experienced was deeper than we've gone before. Why they end? what did it all mean? It can be very hard to wrap our heads around it, especially the way these relationships can terminate.

 

At some point you have to let go and let life take over (it will anyhow), she knows how to get a hold of you if she needs you. Try to take the big picture view on life, timing is everything ... try to realize that what is today, will be much different two years from now.... take a step back and realize this is only temporary, life changes, who knows... maybe your paths will cross again under better circumstances.

[Spark1111]

Know the pain, know it to well and too fresh right now....Feel for you.

 

Just the other day my six month NC counter had to be reset myself, and it wasn't even initiated by me. Go figure the result was something like 'nevermind'

 

What's left is confusion, pain and more confusion (did I say confusion?) Being an MM though I've learned my lesson but why did she re-open the wound? It's hard to understand these things. Maybe she wanted to know that I was still there for her, or would be if needed.

 

Thing is you can make the choice to go back to NC and take charge of your life again and move forward. Why wait for her to figure out her mess? I can glean from your writing that you are a very 'own my life' type person and you're doing all the right things. Some relationships are harder to let go of, especially if what we experienced was deeper than we've gone before. Why they end? what did it all mean? It can be very hard to wrap our heads around it, especially the way these relationships can terminate.

 

At some point you have to let go and let life take over (it will anyhow), she knows how to get a hold of you if she needs you. Try to take the big picture view on life, timing is everything ... try to realize that what is today, will be much different two years from now.... take a step back and realize this is only temporary, life changes, who knows... maybe your paths will cross again under better circumstances.

 

Great advice here!

 

I think some former APs just LOVE knowing you are somewhere still pining away for them..............

 

What an ego boost! But nothing that has to be supported with actions and committment, right?

 

The fantasy of your undying love will keep them warm at night while THEY try to figure out their lives and their relationships.

 

Why do that to yourself? Why be someone's ego boost? Why open that door for her to assess how desperately you would still consider her as a partner IF she ever left him.

 

Jeez, what drama, and what pain for you again MC!

 

Next time she calls, tell her you have a date with someone new and exciting. Then, say buh-bye!

[In_Repair]

Come on man. You were screwing a married woman and it ended... stop acting like your wife of twenty years just left you for your best friend, and ran over your dog as they were driving away.

 

Time to man up. Ditch the counselor and go find a girlfriend. An unmarried girlfriend. The world will seem so much nicer. Take it from a fellow fOM...

[jj33]

What's left is confusion, pain and more confusion (did I say confusion?) Being an MM though I've learned my lesson but why did she re-open the wound? It's hard to understand these things. Maybe she wanted to know that I was still there for her, or would be if needed.

 

Why do they reopen the wound. I ask myself all the time and I agree its because they want to know that there is someone out there that loves them and wants them even if they are married to someone else.

 

Its incredibly selfish behavior

[siuys]

Write her off. She is a mess, can't commit, can't be in touch but can't stay away either... you're letting her step all over you and you are living on hope and asking her for commitment she simply cannot give. You're setting yourself up for more hurt. Walk away and accept the reality. Don't bet on potential or illusions. You know when someone loves you and is prepared to do something - you don't need to ask. Their action tells you all you need to know.

 

I find the only way to move forward is WRITE THEM OFF. If you cling on hope or possibility, you will suffer. Closure? You can do that yourself - you don't need someone else to tell you that it is over, or that they can't make up their mind, or it's not working for you... the signs and evidence is all there – the closure you need.

 

All the best.

[Spark1111]

Why do they reopen the wound. I ask myself all the time and I agree its because they want to know that there is someone out there that loves them and wants them even if they are married to someone else.

 

Its incredibly selfish behavior

 

Brava JJ!

 

Breathtakingly selfish.

[MorningCoffee]

Wow, I feel for you. For a little while you were right back into the affair but then when you pressed her for actions, she asked you to leave her alone. Well, there's your answer. If you were seeking this answer or closure by contacting her, you have it. At least that's a positive thing that has come from this. . . . One foot in front of the other is the only way to finish the race... don't look back my friend.

 

Excellent, SB! I hadn't seen any of this exchange as a plus, but you're right. There is the very message I had expected when I first broke no contact. Closure -- I am grabbing that with both hands!

[MorningCoffee]

Know the pain, know it to well and too fresh right now....Feel for you.

 

Just the other day my six month NC counter had to be reset myself, and it wasn't even initiated by me. Go figure the result was something like 'nevermind'

 

What's left is confusion, pain and more confusion (did I say confusion?) Being an MM though I've learned my lesson but why did she re-open the wound? It's hard to understand these things. Maybe she wanted to know that I was still there for her, or would be if needed.

 

Thing is you can make the choice to go back to NC and take charge of your life again and move forward. Why wait for her to figure out her mess? I can glean from your writing that you are a very 'own my life' type person and you're doing all the right things. Some relationships are harder to let go of, especially if what we experienced was deeper than we've gone before. Why they end? what did it all mean? It can be very hard to wrap our heads around it, especially the way these relationships can terminate.

 

At some point you have to let go and let life take over (it will anyhow), she knows how to get a hold of you if she needs you. Try to take the big picture view on life, timing is everything ... try to realize that what is today, will be much different two years from now.... take a step back and realize this is only temporary, life changes, who knows... maybe your paths will cross again under better circumstances.

 

So, your OW contacted you? As I did to my fAP/MW? Ouch.

 

Yeah, the back and forth, those are the worst. The roller coaster it was so nice to be off of for all those months then just grinds on up and starts its plunge all over again. It bites!

 

I like your stressing that what is today will change. I will rededicate myself to NC and move ahead.

 

Thanks and best to you as well.

[MorningCoffee]

Great advice here!

 

I think some former APs just LOVE knowing you are somewhere still pining away for them..............

 

What an ego boost! But nothing that has to be supported with actions and committment, right?

 

The fantasy of your undying love will keep them warm at night while THEY try to figure out their lives and their relationships.

 

Why do that to yourself? Why be someone's ego boost? Why open that door for her to assess how desperately you would still consider her as a partner IF she ever left him.

 

Jeez, what drama, and what pain for you again MC!

 

Next time she calls, tell her you have a date with someone new and exciting. Then, say buh-bye!

 

Yeah, Spark, WAY too much drama, and at so little effort - just a few words -- on their part.

 

But have to say, having restructured my life over the past 6 months anyway, there's so much less pain than was the case when I first went to NC, there is no comparison. Then I felt devastated. Now it was more just disappointment. But, whatever, it isn't working for me, so I am outta there!

 

And I love the reply if she calls. Not expecting such a call, but I will have the reply at the ready! Thanks!

[MorningCoffee]

Come on man. You were screwing a married woman and it ended... stop acting like your wife of twenty years just left you for your best friend, and ran over your dog as they were driving away.

 

Time to man up. Ditch the counselor and go find a girlfriend. An unmarried girlfriend. The world will seem so much nicer. Take it from a fellow fOM...

 

Yes, yes, all that, IR.

 

I was successfully, faithfully, and happily married for over 25 years before I lost my wife to illness, so I do know quite a bit about having a solid and successful relationship. I also know that while spectacular, this affair was definitely not such.

 

Believe me, I want to be over this. I will get there. I was getting there. The issue was the disconnect between what I KNEW (as you so kindly reiterated) and what I FELT.

[MorningCoffee]

It seems like, no matter what the intentions are, contact is damaging. I understand the need for closure. I think the problem is she hasn't really given you a concrete answer as in "I am not divorcing my husband". Words like "not right now", "maybe later", "in time" all leave it open for our imagination to play with and our hearts to hang onto. Her simply saying to stop pursuing her but not stop loving her is a mixed message.

 

And it never helps when their marriage is in bad shape because it leaves you feeling like change is around the corner. I believe that's a natural reaction because who wants to live like that? Thing is, those types of things don't usually happen fast because the emotions tied to it can be very complicated. And when our hearts want them, we can glean any small encouragement to just hang on a little longer when it seems change may be near.

 

But here's what she HAS given you. She's told you to stop pursuing her. The best thing you can do for yourself is take that as your closure. She's not prepared to give you what you need and want at this time, so it is your place to go seek it elsewhere. You never know what the future may hold, and sometimes just letting go opens the door for necessary change.

 

SIT, the bolded part is spot on. Thank you.

[MorningCoffee]

Why do they reopen the wound. I ask myself all the time and I agree its because they want to know that there is someone out there that loves them and wants them even if they are married to someone else.

 

Its incredibly selfish behavior

 

Completely agree.

[MorningCoffee]

Write her off. She is a mess, can't commit, can't be in touch but can't stay away either... you're letting her step all over you and you are living on hope and asking her for commitment she simply cannot give. You're setting yourself up for more hurt. Walk away and accept the reality. Don't bet on potential or illusions. You know when someone loves you and is prepared to do something - you don't need to ask. Their action tells you all you need to know.

 

I find the only way to move forward is WRITE THEM OFF. If you cling on hope or possibility, you will suffer. Closure? You can do that yourself - you don't need someone else to tell you that it is over, or that they can't make up their mind, or it's not working for you... the signs and evidence is all there – the closure you need.

 

All the best.

 

The key is that once I asked for some sign of actions as opposed to words, that is when the mixed signals came, as you said "can't be in touch but can't stay away either" and I agree that those are exactly the cues for closure I need to heed. Thanks.

[jj33]

I know it but I fall for it each time, and then become furious that I was conned into thinking that there was something important to discuss. Its like Ground Hogs Day over and over again. And its eroded our business relationship beyond belief. And he has the nerve to say why do I react like that? Because he keeps opening the wound every few months, I wish I were stronger. Sometimes I think this whole thing has ruined me.

[MorningCoffee]

I know it but I fall for it each time, and then become furious that I was conned into thinking that there was something important to discuss. Its like Ground Hogs Day over and over again. And its eroded our business relationship beyond belief. And he has the nerve to say why do I react like that? Because he keeps opening the wound every few months, I wish I were stronger. Sometimes I think this whole thing has ruined me.

 

I can relate to that, jj. I think I've learned the indelible lesson that affairs are just such distorted versions of relationships that they throw all our normal coping mechanisms off kilter.

 

When the painful end comes, unlike when a loved one dies, there are no societal rituals or family roles to be played out, no one to understand and stand by us in our grief.

 

But I do not think these distortions are permanent. And having this LS community is incredibly helpful!!

[fooled once]

Why do they reopen the wound. I ask myself all the time and I agree its because they want to know that there is someone out there that loves them and wants them even if they are married to someone else.

 

Its incredibly selfish behavior

 

I agree jj.

 

Also - closure comes from WITHIN, not from someone else!

 

That's what I believe so many can't understand. You don't NEED to know that someone else is pining for you in order to go on. You don't NEED to hear them say "oh darn, I love you so much but I just can't leave my current relationship". You don't NEED their explanation for why they didn't leave, didn't call, didn't burst into flames because there was no contact for 2 hours/2 days/2 weeks.

 

Their actions of NOT leaving should be all the 'closure' you need.

 

People do not die from no contact. People actually HEAL and hopefully, if THEY ALLOW THEMSELVES, to move on. I know it hurts, I know it is painful, but in time, if you (general you) allow yourself to grieve and let go, you will find that life does go on. And again, if you (general you) allow yourselves to STOP obsessing and open your heart, you can and will find someone who is MORE suited for you and be able to give you all that you deserve.

 

But too many people are stuck in the "well, I need to contact them to let them know I will sit and wait for them or if they do leave, to call me immediately" Or even to find out if that person misses them and loves them as much as they do love and miss them. That isn't helpful!! That is so sad that so many people allow life to go by them while they sit and pine for someone. Instead of wallowing, go celebrate LIFE. Celebrate being on this earth and spend your time helping someone else or doing something you enjoy.

[In_Repair]

Yes, yes, all that, IR.

 

I was successfully, faithfully, and happily married for over 25 years before I lost my wife to illness, so I do know quite a bit about having a solid and successful relationship. I also know that while spectacular, this affair was definitely not such.

 

Believe me, I want to be over this. I will get there. I was getting there. The issue was the disconnect between what I KNEW (as you so kindly reiterated) and what I FELT.

 

You will get there. It's just a matter of proving to yourself that you are better off without her in your life. Right now you are clinging to all of the good aspects of the relationship and letting them cloud your senses. There is an old saying that goes something like: "The best way to get over one woman is to get on top of another one". I know lots of people here will argue with me on this, but I agree with it... to some extent. Think of how nice it would be to once again have a woman that is all yours. One you can do anything with, take anywhere, show off to anyone... A woman that you can have everything you had with the MW, plus a whole lot more. She is out there, but you will never find her if you keep wasting time on that other man's woman.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your wife. That's tough, and I wouldn't have made the joke about losing a wife if I had known. I'm sure it was in some way a contributing factor in your decision to see the MW. Going through something like that is crushing in many ways, and can make you question everything, including your own morals and go against your own sense of right and wrong. Part of you gives up, and the rest soon follows. I lost(booted) my own wife, of 10 years, to an affair. Before that point, I had never been the type to run around with or chase married women. Next thing I knew though, I was an OM...

 

Good luck. You deserve better.

[kuma]

She is out there, but you will never find her if you keep wasting time on that other man's woman.

 

I agree with this. MorningCoffee, please don't allow someone to make you unhappy. Take your power back. Life is short, be happy.

[silverplanets]

Well, I tried. A few weeks after D-Day, I asked her not to contact me any more until she’d divorced. Backstory is here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t229550/

 

I did my grieving (big time!), I got busy working on my life, I deleted all traces from cell, computer, I put the mementos in storage, I moved, I joined a gym, I spent time with friends, I continued counseling. Three months of no contact and I was doing great!

 

But I still couldn’t let go completely because – my heart insisted that wasn’t it possible still that maybe she’d get on her own, and then there’d be a chance to see if our “amazing connection,” etc., could actually go somewhere?

 

Five months into no contact, and I had driven myself nuts, just beside myself with not knowing what was going on with her. What would it take for me to let go completely? Maybe if I heard from her that we really had no chance, then I could move on. But did I really dare to break no contact?

 

My counselor advised me that I had made so much progress generally, that even contact would not be ‘fatal,’ and if it was helpful, great, and if it was not, I would recognize it, get away from it, and be better off for it. So with guidance from my counselor, I thought more about what I wanted out of the contact and how I would deal with this or that response. I thought I was prepared. I called her. I fully expected her to either reject my call and not even answer, or to tell me they were reconciling and to leave her alone.

 

Surprise. Things were bad enough at home that when I called I reached her at a girlfriend’s in another state where she’d gone for a break. She told me she felt the same as she had when we were in our affair, that she loves me, and our deep connection has not weakened. I was taken by surprise, confused, not sure how to take it, but of course my steely resolve not to let my emotional guard down was obliterated by her response.

 

I mulled this over for a few weeks, and then called to tell her I wanted her to know that I did want her back in my life if it became possible, i.e., she had herself sorted out and out of her marriage. Did not ask for any reply or anything. She has never made any promises of that kind to me, had always been straight with me. I did not press her, I just wanted her to know.

 

I should have left it at that. But, no. Like an addict, I craved more contact. We talked on the phone twice in the next month, and two more recently. Two she initiated, two I did. Mostly just pleasant, nothing too personal or about their marriage or about our relationship.

 

But light contact has proved to be too much for me. The other night, I emailed her, asking for any actions as opposed to words. Her reply was that she won’t answer my questions, she loves me, she’s there if I need her, but she would like me to stop pursuing her. Not stop loving her, just stop pursuing her.

 

OK, I must stop. It hurts. I know I have to decide for myself that waiting and hanging on are not acceptable uses of my precious time on this earth. That she is not “all in” for me no matter how often she professes to love me deeply.

 

And the claim that she is there if I need her? Right. What about my need to know the truth of what is in her mind, so I can move on?

 

Yes, I guess the truth is right there in front of me. But how do I reconcile my emotional attachment with what I know logically? There is such a disconnect.

 

Why can't I convince myself emotionally that we have no chance?

 

Thoughts? Support? Advice?

 

Hi MC,

 

I'm intreagued by this post because it reminds me of my ixMW .. whenvever I used to call her after NC she would always be in that "woe is me" place .. with a friend, with her mum, etc etc ...

 

Eventually I realised that some of the time she just plain lied ... eg she was at a friends for a genuine break but wanted to play it as an angle , some of the time she was just feeling sorry for herself and wanted sympathy or other parts of the time she just wasn't getting enough attention from her H and just wanted more.

 

A common thread under all of this was that she wasn't doing/or planning to do anything. She just got her validation from playing being unhappy and the attention that got her ... and like a sappy enabler I was giving it to her.

 

Not saying yours is the same but I am intreagued by the instant "I am at a friends " sympathy play and linking it to the instant withdrawal as soon as you incremented the pressure to find action behind the words.

 

With my ixMW I came to realise that the very last thing she wanted to confront was that she got her validation from the drama ... so rather than deal with any question which required her to reconcile her words with her lack of action she would simply shut down if direction was forced that way.

 

Does that make any sense???

 

Perhaps in shorter words I worked out that she only wanted me in her life provided I was willing to support and encourage the "drama" .. to keep her at the centre of the "Woe is me and my life" spotlight ...

 

Anyway, that's all along time ago but thought maybe it might help ..

 

In terms of the question .. how do you reconcile your two views ...

 

At some 14 months NC now then my advice would be don't try to ...

 

Just accept that your views are not reconciled and move on with your life anyway ...

 

It sounds like you've made a fantastic go of it over the recent months and with this episode you can become even stronger ...

 

Rather than pick up the why can't I reconcile it dilema .. simply put it down and walk away from it.

 

YOU can do that. YOU can choose what you focus your mind and attention on.

 

Of course, you will get "seepage" into your daily thoughts, but again just choose to put them down and get on with it.

 

I eventually got into the habit of laughing at these thoughts as they popped in during the day and then literally refusing to think in any more depth about the thought.

 

We have zillions of thoughts every day and some of them are bound to be about ex's ... you can't control that (although it will drop in level) but you can choose not to shine your consciousness on these thoughts once they pop up ...

 

If it helps keep a jotting of the "type" of thoughts you are having of her for a few days ... you will notice they fall into "repeat" categories ...

 

eg: aha, there's the "I can't surive without her thought" ... and just tally it up in your notebook, and then keep on with your thoughts on what you are doing now.

 

I did this and found there were only about 10 types of thought of her and I even deliberatley once went through all 10 and asked myself if there was any value in thinking deeper about that category .. the answer was always no!!!

 

So when that thought occured again, I already knew I'd considered it and decided it wasn't worth thinking about any deeper, so I'd disregard it.

 

OK, enough waffling,

 

hope this helps

 

Chris

[MorningCoffee]

Hi MC,

 

I'm intreagued by this post because it reminds me of my ixMW .. whenvever I used to call her after NC she would always be in that "woe is me" place .. with a friend, with her mum, etc etc ...

 

Eventually I realised that some of the time she just plain lied ... eg she was at a friends for a genuine break but wanted to play it as an angle , some of the time she was just feeling sorry for herself and wanted sympathy or other parts of the time she just wasn't getting enough attention from her H and just wanted more.

 

A common thread under all of this was that she wasn't doing/or planning to do anything. She just got her validation from playing being unhappy and the attention that got her ... and like a sappy enabler I was giving it to her.

 

Not saying yours is the same but I am intreagued by the instant "I am at a friends " sympathy play and linking it to the instant withdrawal as soon as you incremented the pressure to find action behind the words.

 

With my ixMW I came to realise that the very last thing she wanted to confront was that she got her validation from the drama ... so rather than deal with any question which required her to reconcile her words with her lack of action she would simply shut down if direction was forced that way.

 

Does that make any sense???

 

Perhaps in shorter words I worked out that she only wanted me in her life provided I was willing to support and encourage the "drama" .. to keep her at the centre of the "Woe is me and my life" spotlight ...

 

Anyway, that's all along time ago but thought maybe it might help ..

 

In terms of the question .. how do you reconcile your two views ...

 

At some 14 months NC now then my advice would be don't try to ...

 

Just accept that your views are not reconciled and move on with your life anyway ...

 

It sounds like you've made a fantastic go of it over the recent months and with this episode you can become even stronger ...

 

Rather than pick up the why can't I reconcile it dilema .. simply put it down and walk away from it.

 

YOU can do that. YOU can choose what you focus your mind and attention on.

 

Of course, you will get "seepage" into your daily thoughts, but again just choose to put them down and get on with it.

 

I eventually got into the habit of laughing at these thoughts as they popped in during the day and then literally refusing to think in any more depth about the thought.

 

We have zillions of thoughts every day and some of them are bound to be about ex's ... you can't control that (although it will drop in level) but you can choose not to shine your consciousness on these thoughts once they pop up ...

 

If it helps keep a jotting of the "type" of thoughts you are having of her for a few days ... you will notice they fall into "repeat" categories ...

 

eg: aha, there's the "I can't surive without her thought" ... and just tally it up in your notebook, and then keep on with your thoughts on what you are doing now.

 

I did this and found there were only about 10 types of thought of her and I even deliberatley once went through all 10 and asked myself if there was any value in thinking deeper about that category .. the answer was always no!!!

 

So when that thought occured again, I already knew I'd considered it and decided it wasn't worth thinking about any deeper, so I'd disregard it.

 

OK, enough waffling,

 

hope this helps

 

Chris

 

What an awesome post, Chris. Thank you.

 

I find your experience enlightening. I have known my ex-AP now a bit over three years, and since her dissatisfaction with her marriage predates our acquaintance, I never knew her "before" so never saw her when her life was in an overall positive posture. Of course there were happy times that I did see, some of the times that we shared. But no doubt she spends a great deal of time in that "woe is me" kind of drama you describe so well.

 

And she definitely is the center of her universe -- her needs, her moods, her relationships with her friends and relatives -- no matter. A common refrain was complaints about how this or that person just didn't "get" her. That pattern probably exists with regard to everyone in her life. Perhaps it's become a habit, and habits being hard to break (especially when one of the habits is a marriage that provides her both a very comfortable lifestyle and a much beloved child), leaving for love just ain't going to happen. That's the logic part.

 

Another great thing in your post is the notion that I do not HAVE to reconcile the emotional and the logical. I can simply say, yup, there they are, and move on. That is a really good idea.

 

And I think I do know how to do that -- as I mentioned in another reply, my longtime spouse passed away a few years back. Naturally I went through grieving, etc. Not minimizing that. But here's what made me raise this in connection with realizing that I already know how to move on without resolving all conflicts between the knowledge part and the emotional part: in the relationships that I have had since becoming single I have learned some things about myself (in the emotional realm) that, had I known back when I was still married, I could have done something about, and that would probably have made my relationship in the later years of my marriage even better. But my wife is gone. There is nothing I can do now with that knowledge with regard to that relationship. I can use it in my future relationships, but the "what ifs" of how it might have improved my marriage are simply unknowable, undoable, unuseable, and I have already let them go, no problem. I can do the same thing here! I shall repeat, as needed, that my ex-AP is gone, and move on.

 

Finally, I like the idea of sort of cataloguing the types of thoughts that pop up about my ex-AP, and knowing them, sort of laughing them off. I have a ways to go to get to that point, but I know the pain level is so much less than it was back when I first went NC, that I am confident I can get there. Great idea.

 

So, again, Chris, thank you so much!!

Edited September 30, 2010 by MorningCoffee

[silverplanets]

What an awesome post, Chris. Thank you.

 

I find your experience enlightening. I have known my ex-AP now a bit over three years, and since her dissatisfaction with her marriage predates our acquaintance, I never knew her "before" so never saw her when her life was in an overall positive posture. Of course there were happy times that I did see, some of the times that we shared. But no doubt she spends a great deal of time in that "woe is me" kind of drama you describe so well.

 

And she definitely is the center of her universe -- her needs, her moods, her relationships with her friends and relatives -- no matter. A common refrain was complaints about how this or that person just didn't "get" her. That pattern probably exists with regard to everyone in her life. Perhaps it's become a habit, and habits being hard to break (especially when one of the habits is a marriage that provides her both a very comfortable lifestyle and a much beloved child), leaving for love just ain't going to happen. That's the logic part.

 

Another great thing in your post is the notion that I do not HAVE to reconcile the emotional and the logical. I can simply say, yup, there they are, and move on. That is a really good idea.

 

And I think I do know how to do that -- as I mentioned in another reply, my longtime spouse passed away a few years back. Naturally I went through grieving, etc. Not minimizing that. But here's what made me raise this in connection with realizing that I already know how to move on without resolving all conflicts between the knowledge part and the emotional part: in the relationships that I have had since becoming single I have learned some things about myself (in the emotional realm) that, had I known back when I was still married, I could have done something about, and that would probably have made my relationship in the later years of my marriage even better. But my wife is gone. There is nothing I can do now with that knowledge with regard to that relationship. I can use it in my future relationships, but the "what ifs" of how it might have improved my marriage are simply unknowable, undoable, unuseable, and I have already let them go, no problem. I can do the same thing here! I shall repeat, as needed, that my ex-AP is gone, and move on.

 

Finally, I like the idea of sort of cataloguing the types of thoughts that pop up about my ex-AP, and knowing them, sort of laughing them off. I have a ways to go to get to that point, but I know the pain level is so much less than it was back when I first went NC, that I am confident I can get there. Great idea.

 

So, again, Chris, thank you so much!!

 

Hi MC,

 

It sounds like you have been through a lot in the last few years or so and dealt with some big issues.

 

I honestly think you've done SO well on NC so far and, if you've noticed that the pain level has subsided then hopefully you can believe that if you just keep going then it keeps droppping .... and in it's place the real YOU and your strength and vitality grows.

 

Keep safe MC

Chris

[Hazyhead]

And the claim that she is there if I need her? Right. What about my need to know the truth of what is in her mind, so I can move on?

 

Yes, I guess the truth is right there in front of me. But how do I reconcile my emotional attachment with what I know logically? There is such a disconnect.

 

Why can't I convince myself emotionally that we have no chance?

 

Thoughts? Support? Advice?

 

MC, I understand this desire very well. Recently xMM got back in touch with me after six months with his 'blah, blah, blahs' but was wishy washy with reasons. I didn't get it. Why bother with contact for no real point? After the conversations, and each one leaving me 'Eh?' I asked him for reasons and he told me. I don't know what I expected, him to have changed in his attitude or whatever, but all I received was the same message that I had six months prior. A lot has changed for him BUT as much has changed for me in that I am no longer willing to pander to another's emotional needs at the detriment of my own. I can't. Emotionally, it's not that 'we' have no chance, it's that 'he' has no chance of being emotionally fully available to anyone until he can own his own emotional decisions, if that makes sense. He is caught in a web of lies, lies he believes he tells to avoid hurting others, but they instead have the opposite effect because nobody truly knows where they stand with him and that is not a position I want.

 

I agree with Chris, don't look for their reasons - just find your own. You are responsible for your own happiness. Does she make you truly happy? Or does she only bring you pain? If you eliminate her from your life and get back to NC, will you eventually be free from it? MC, leave her emotional shortcomings to her - if she isn't prepared to own them then why should you be?

[silverplanets]

MC, I understand this desire very well. Recently xMM got back in touch with me after six months with his 'blah, blah, blahs' but was wishy washy with reasons. I didn't get it. Why bother with contact for no real point? After the conversations, and each one leaving me 'Eh?' I asked him for reasons and he told me. I don't know what I expected, him to have changed in his attitude or whatever, but all I received was the same message that I had six months prior. A lot has changed for him BUT as much has changed for me in that I am no longer willing to pander to another's emotional needs at the detriment of my own. I can't. Emotionally, it's not that 'we' have no chance, it's that 'he' has no chance of being emotionally fully available to anyone until he can own his own emotional decisions, if that makes sense. He is caught in a web of lies, lies he believes he tells to avoid hurting others, but they instead have the opposite effect because nobody truly knows where they stand with him and that is not a position I want.

 

I agree with Chris, don't look for their reasons - just find your own. You are responsible for your own happiness. Does she make you truly happy? Or does she only bring you pain? If you eliminate her from your life and get back to NC, will you eventually be free from it? MC, leave her emotional shortcomings to her - if she isn't prepared to own them then why should you be?

 

That's a great question Hazy .. not just in connection with this post .. but across the board ...

 

I see so many poeple who believe that the person is bringing happiness into their lives .. whereas from a non-involved standpoint it seems pretty clear that all the person brings is drama.

 

Now, maybe drama sometimes distracts one from one's own life and in that way DOES make one happy ... but in that one case one needs to be honest and say it's not the person that makes you happy but the fact that they distract one from being unhappy.

 

Why not cut to the root and focus on oneself and why one is unhappy ... rather than letting someone else's drama distract you from tackling yourself.

 

MC - not saying this in any way applies to you .. just Hazy's comment struck me in a "general" sense ...

 

C