Disconnect between emotional attachment and obvious reality!!

[jj33]

Very good point about hte stealth phone contact and control. I did that as well. I started limiting how I would allow contact until it shrunk and shrunk and shrunk to work contact and work related meetings. No non work related phone calls, no phoning my house so he said no phoning my personal cell phone .... so I said thanks for letting me know, Ive deleted that number from my cell. Its childish. He still emails me almost daily sometimes several times per day.

 

But I felt like I was taking back control

[MorningCoffee]

Very good point about hte stealth phone contact and control. I did that as well. I started limiting how I would allow contact until it shrunk and shrunk and shrunk to work contact and work related meetings. No non work related phone calls, no phoning my house so he said no phoning my personal cell phone .... so I said thanks for letting me know, Ive deleted that number from my cell. Its childish. He still emails me almost daily sometimes several times per day.

 

But I felt like I was taking back control

 

Yes, taking back control. When I look back at the months the affair was in high gear, I was anything but in control. LOL now, but then?

 

As I said above, I'm not yet at a point of saying NC forever, at least for the time being. But encourage her to sneak? No.

[East7]

So she has waffled about leaving/staying/leaving/staying for several years now. It's maddening - like WTF?????

 

The other thing was the reaction when you painted a picture of the two of you together, you a stepdad, and all, and she reacted as if it scared her. My MW had the same reaction when I told her I wanted to be the man in her life and I would do whatever it took to make that happen. That level of determination scared her.

 

Thanks for your understanding, it's easy when you are in the same shoes..

It seems they all act the same way, I will paint the whole picture :

 

They see us as the lover, the thrill, the passion. It makes a woman feel like 17 years old, her first passion, the boyfirend who was difficult to get, that her daddy didn't want, that she has to meet in secret etc...It makes a woman feel younger and desired, all she doesn't have in a regular marriage. For me it has been the same, I have felt thrill and passion through her in a way I had forgotten since my high school.

Once the thrill is consumed, and we have walked on the clouds and she got the butterflies in the stomach, we get back on the reality and then the frustrations begin : what are we doing now? MW says : I want you happy, you should meet other girls, but when you do so, she gets crazy jealous and says why you are doing this me?

She says : I promised you nothing. You should live your life, we have met in the wrong moment, I wish I had met you before my marriage, we could had built a life together...

We say : But honey, we are young we can still do it. I will do anything to make you happy, I will love and cherish you etc etc.

(There she freaks out, she avoid direct answers)

She : It is what it is, we can't...You should move on. I have a difficult marriage...

 

She sees the OM like "Lover" is written on his forehead, not as a man with flesh and blood who wants a decent relationship. But she doesnt care about the OM feelings, she wants him for what he is a "lover"...As soon as the lover becomes demanding, she will reject, be distant and mean...

And this goes on in circles, and the rollercoaster begins, until both get tired, especially us the OM, and both go on blows and NC.

 

Then she gets nostalgic, her H is there for granted, she has no effort to do for him, the "lover" is a sweet memory that she misses, then she feels that she wants to talk to him, wants that thrill to come back again in her empty loveless life and the story starts all over...

 

The best tactics to get her crazy is to have another woman, as soon as she loses control on her "emotional property" she will feel INSECURE and suddenly will be sweet as never before, she will cover you with attention and I-love-you's...The dysfonctionnal Desdemona, will become the sweetest woman on earth to get you back to her.

 

Our happiness is our best revenge !

[jj33]

East that is so eloquent and so true. Very very well put.

 

And the cycle repeats itself again and again and again. And its so frustrating.

[wheelwright]

I'm going through the same experience mate....Except that she is "pursuing" me while I keep NC.

My MW, ask me to love her but that she can't be with me, for "all kind of reasons" and she has to fix her marriage...But that she needs me in her life.

Very strange behavior...

 

This is typical self-centered woman who needs to know that someone is loving her (because probably her H is NOT loving her) not to boost the ego but because probably she is NEEDY and INSECURE and she needs a Provider (H) and a Lover (you).

If she really loves you, either she would want to be with you, or she would let you enjoy your life without asking emotional support.

 

Going back to a loveless marriage and wanting you loving her is terribly selfish because you can be a "emotional patch" until she divorces and then you have NO Guaranty that once single she will rush to call you and want her in her life.

This is the main illusion that all we OM have, we think that once her D is done, she will run to us in a heartbeat and want to live happily ever. The ugly truth is that those who break the marriage after un affair are not mentally ready to get their lover back, or they will do it in a messy way, will blow cold and hot, will keep you suffering in a emotional roller-coaster etc.

 

IMO the best solution is to cut off in ALL-OR-NOTHING decision, go on NC and not expect anything. If she was meant to be yours, she knows how to find you.

 

I just wanted to say in the nicest possible way that this is BS.

 

PM if you want to know more.

 

If not, then all the best to you.

[wheelwright]

I feel you are all saying it is just the way it is, and we will get over our hurt.

 

And I want to feel that too.

 

But I hate the cameraderie and the getting over.

 

You seem to think it's just inevitable. You just have to talk about it in that way, and eventually it'll be gone.

 

I don't feel like that. I feel that I will get over it, but that I will never love again. That he was my love.

 

Is everyone else just going to going to get over it?

[East7]

I feel you are all saying it is just the way it is, and we will get over our hurt.

 

And I want to feel that too.

 

But I hate the cameraderie and the getting over.

 

You seem to think it's just inevitable. You just have to talk about it in that way, and eventually it'll be gone.

 

I don't know how desperate you are wheelwright but the "obvious reality" is that the ball is at the the Married person's court. The MW/MM has the power to change the things, he/she is the one who is married and wants all, not the AP. What's the point to put one's life on hold while the MW/MM is enjoying theirs with a spouse at home and goes to bed with her/him every night like nothing ever happened ?

 

Like a guy said in this board (very wise quote) : NO more living a half-life while she is living a life and a half !

 

I don't feel like that. I feel that I will get over it, but that I will never love again. That he was my love.

Is everyone else just going to going to get over it?

 

Well yes, there is love, genuine love, unless it would be soooo easy to walk away and get over in a heartbeat. I don't want to sell some philosophy but love is also to enjoy the person without having to share her. Love is also doing things together, not having to hide, have that person 24/7 when you need her, planning vacations together etc etc. I don't want a love that bleeds my heart, (almost) never makes me happy and doesn't let me know where I am going.

[MorningCoffee]

Thinking out loud here. Feel like I'm in a soap opera sometimes.

 

I have held to my boundary regarding the hidden phone thing -- and the result is now my ex-AP/MW is calling from her actual phone. Oops. Didn't think that would happen, cause they were supposedly reconciling and going to MC and all that. I should have known when I allowed myself to say I did not object to the contact, just to the sneak method, that I would get more contact.

 

She is also coming on all seductive, using a pet name for me she's not used since D-Day (I confess I liked it and played along -- my bad), opening up and telling me where things stand (stalemate) in their ongoing skirmishes that passes for a marriage, she has quit MC and yet has no plans of leaving.

 

I can feel that I am treading on very dangerous ground here. If we in contact and she is hiding it, then she could be thinking of starting up again.

 

I do still love her, and the temptation to play is great but the stakes are so high: I would again be a party to deception which I hated when we were in the affair. She hasn't left, so I am sure they are still having sex. God, how I hated sharing her. Ugh.

 

Any relationship with her short of a real relationship would blow all the progress I've made and make a mockery of all the pain I've endured.

 

It also would mean that I was giving in to her manipulation that puts me back in the role of being her unhappiness relief valve. That role sucks.

 

My thinking is to go back to laying low. Not take her calls. Keep on being active and building my own life, and meeting new people. Dating when I can. If she renews contact again, remind her of my requirements -- above-board, open, and divorced, or I am not playing.

[Owl]

I have another suggestion for you.

 

BLOCK HER.

 

Block her cell phone, hidden cell phone, and then ask your phone provider how you can block anonymous calls. Explain to them that you're getting unwanted calls from a party using this method to reach you.

 

If that fails...change your numbers.

 

You'll feel so much better when she's not able to play these games any longer.

 

It's always better to take active measures to control your life than to take passive measures hoping she'll go away. No more avoiding temptation...it gets her back to being out of site, and then out of mind.

[East7]

 

I can feel that I am treading on very dangerous ground here. If we in contact and she is hiding it, then she could be thinking of starting up again.

 

I hear you, I'm in the same situation. She contacts me every 2-3 days, she must have the itchy fingers

 

I do still love her, and the temptation to play is great but the stakes are so high: I would again be a party to deception which I hated when we were in the affair. She hasn't left, so I am sure they are still having sex. God, how I hated sharing her. Ugh.

 

Sex with her H just makes me sick too...She claimed no sex while we were together...oh well...I "wanted" to trust her. It's just so humiliating ! I guess for a man physical loyalty is far more important than to women (I have never heard OW being very concerned whether their MM had sex with their wives - they are more concerned about emotional loyalty)

 

Any relationship with her short of a real relationship would blow all the progress I've made and make a mockery of all the pain I've endured.

 

It also would mean that I was giving in to her manipulation that puts me back in the role of being her unhappiness relief valve. That role sucks.

 

I think they all want to come back to what they lost, they want the cake back... It is about your credibility, if she TESTs you and you become available and disposed she will find you weak...If you stick to your decision and become a challenge to her she will respect you more. In my opinion don't answer tel calls but answer to e-mails only. My attitude now is : "If you have something new to come up with, we can talk, otherwise I'm not interested to talk to you"

I am in an ALL-or-NOTHING decision...I have read here lots of people wasting years of their lives going NC and A back and forth, waiting to be with the MM/MW, such a time waist while zillions of available women/men walk around...

[newlife2010]

MC, you are truly amazing.

 

The best thing you ever did was to NOT send that email of 'explanation' that you wrote after she called you several times and you didn't take the calls.

 

Your explanation would have defeated the purpose of your not taking the calls. Your silence said it all.

 

Absolute Kudos to you. You are my hero.

[MorningCoffee]

I feel you are all saying it is just the way it is, and we will get over our hurt.

 

And I want to feel that too.

 

But I hate the cameraderie and the getting over.

 

You seem to think it's just inevitable. You just have to talk about it in that way, and eventually it'll be gone.

 

I don't feel like that. I feel that I will get over it, but that I will never love again. That he was my love.

 

Is everyone else just going to going to get over it?

 

No, I do not believe I will ever just "get over" it. I think these ups and downs totally suck, and are not something I would ever knowingly choose. But having found myself in this love affair with a MW, I know that this relationship has altered my perception of things permanently.

 

I will go on, with or without her, but if it is without her, I will not just "get over" it. Someone once wrote you do not get over a lost love (whether by death or whatever) you merely learn to go on living without that person in your life.

 

The jury is still out on whether she will become independent (read 'divorced') and available (read 'have her sh*t together') soon enough for me to still be interested in continuing the relationship, because I am moving on. But whatever the future may hold, I am altered, mostly for the better, for having had her love and having had her in my life.

[MorningCoffee]

I have another suggestion for you.

 

BLOCK HER.

 

Block her cell phone, hidden cell phone, and then ask your phone provider how you can block anonymous calls. Explain to them that you're getting unwanted calls from a party using this method to reach you.

 

If that fails...change your numbers.

 

You'll feel so much better when she's not able to play these games any longer.

 

It's always better to take active measures to control your life than to take passive measures hoping she'll go away. No more avoiding temptation...it gets her back to being out of site, and then out of mind.

 

I agree that having control is important. But I am not ready to burn the bridges, and say NC forever, so I do not want to totally block her. I just want to have very, very clear boundaries that permit me to continue to grow, and to live my life, and if along the way she has occasion to contact, then I hope to be OK with it. Just not get sucked back in, in violation of my boundaries.

 

Does that any sense to anyone but me?

[MorningCoffee]

I hear you, I'm in the same situation. She contacts me every 2-3 days, she must have the itchy fingers

 

 

 

Sex with her H just makes me sick too...She claimed no sex while we were together...oh well...I "wanted" to trust her. It's just so humiliating ! I guess for a man physical loyalty is far more important than to women (I have never heard OW being very concerned whether their MM had sex with their wives - they are more concerned about emotional loyalty)

 

 

 

I think they all want to come back to what they lost, they want the cake back... It is about your credibility, if she TESTs you and you become available and disposed she will find you weak...If you stick to your decision and become a challenge to her she will respect you more. In my opinion don't answer tel calls but answer to e-mails only. My attitude now is : "If you have something new to come up with, we can talk, otherwise I'm not interested to talk to you"

I am in an ALL-or-NOTHING decision...I have read here lots of people wasting years of their lives going NC and A back and forth, waiting to be with the MM/MW, such a time waist while zillions of available women/men walk around...

 

Well, I have stuck to my decision that sneak phone numbers will not be accepted.

 

And I will not wait around. I am actively going out and doing things and meeting other people. I will date when I meet someone I am interested in and it is mutual.

 

It is my heart that is still with her, and whether I allow contact or not, my heart will remain hers for some indeterminate time to come.

 

Perhaps she will change her circumstances before I am too far distant, or perhaps I will meet some new amazing person whom I will love and the old one will fade. I do not know. But all I can do is to be as open and honest with myself as I can, and try to maintain some proper boundaries to protect myself in all this.

 

This is, I think, all I can do.

[spice4life]

I agree that having control is important. But I am not ready to burn the bridges, and say NC forever, so I do not want to totally block her. I just want to have very, very clear boundaries that permit me to continue to grow, and to live my life, and if along the way she has occasion to contact, then I hope to be OK with it. Just not get sucked back in, in violation of my boundaries.

 

Does that any sense to anyone but me?

 

It makes total sense and if you're comfortable with it that's all that matters. You can always evaluate it again, in the future, if it starts to feel otherwise. I look at it this way, as long as you maintain control of your personal boundaries you will be fine. It's deviating (sp?) from them that ends up making us feel badly.

Edited October 27, 2010 by spice4life

[Owl]

I agree that having control is important. But I am not ready to burn the bridges, and say NC forever, so I do not want to totally block her. I just want to have very, very clear boundaries that permit me to continue to grow, and to live my life, and if along the way she has occasion to contact, then I hope to be OK with it. Just not get sucked back in, in violation of my boundaries.

 

Does that any sense to anyone but me?

 

Absolutely no disrespect intended my friend, but it doesn't make sense to me.

 

You don't have clear boundaries. Not ones that YOU can enforce. You've stated that you want things to change...but until you enforce those boundaries, things are going to remain exactly as they are.

 

You're choosing to allow her to continue to contact you by not taking action to prevent it.

 

You know that she's not going to change...she's not leaving her husband, and has no intention of being honest with him about what she's doing. Her actions show you these things.

 

Leaving the door open is only accepting this from her.

 

If that's what you choose...that's cool. Just recognize and own the choice for what it is, my friend.

 

I do wish you the best.

[UntoldStory]

I agree that having control is important. But I am not ready to burn the bridges, and say NC forever, so I do not want to totally block her. I just want to have very, very clear boundaries that permit me to continue to grow, and to live my life, and if along the way she has occasion to contact, then I hope to be OK with it. Just not get sucked back in, in violation of my boundaries.

 

Does that any sense to anyone but me?

 

MC, I'm there with you. In contact every couple of days and taking it one day at a time. I know myself well enough by now in this situation to know that my heart will tell me when things are "stuck," and then I'll need to re-evaluate and possibly change course. But things are still evolving, and while that's happening, as long as I feel strong and capable of taking care of myself, I want to see where this road goes.

[Circular]

I agree that having control is important. But I am not ready to burn the bridges, and say NC forever, so I do not want to totally block her. I just want to have very, very clear boundaries that permit me to continue to grow, and to live my life, and if along the way she has occasion to contact, then I hope to be OK with it. Just not get sucked back in, in violation of my boundaries.

 

Does that any sense to anyone but me?

 

I agree with this also MC. I've been in NC mode for over six months but NC has been broken a few times, mostly by xMW. I'm considering LC at some point, some people will probably think I'm crazy for saying that but I feel the same way you do - I see no reason to burn bridges. That if I put the boundaries back in place, don't see her in person very often and limit the communication channels.. I like to believe I can have a portion of my friend back at some point. But, I'm the only one that can make that call and when the time is right. For me I think it's still too soon.

[MorningCoffee]

Thank you, spice, untold, owl, newlife, east, and circular. I appreciate your posts very much. Thing is, I find lots to agree with in each of them, and this reflects the ambivalence I feel within.

 

Luckily, I have IC today and will delve into this more with my counselor, who can objectively help me sort out the strands here that cry Addiction! and find the path best for my well-being.

[East7]

Good luck with your IC.

 

I don't agree with Owl to blocking her. I agree not to burn bridges. I don't like to cut off people forever unless I have a VERY good reason. She has the right to talk to you but it is you who can filter her messages and calls and respect your burdens. It is up to you to resist the temptation (I know easy to say..)

 

I remember your initial post and she doesn't sound like knowing what she wants. I don't think her marriage is going great, but as long as she doesn't know with who she wants to be, she will hurt and deceive you.. Being conditional and not accepting an A anymore is to show her that you have INTEGRITY and you don't accept second-class relationships, you are respecting yourself and you are being fair to her.

Edited October 27, 2010 by East7
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[spice4life]

Thank you, spice, untold, owl, newlife, east, and circular. I appreciate your posts very much. Thing is, I find lots to agree with in each of them, and this reflects the ambivalence I feel within.

 

Luckily, I have IC today and will delve into this more with my counselor, who can objectively help me sort out the strands here that cry Addiction! and find the path best for my well-being.

 

Gotta love those counceling sessions! I'm in IC too and its makes me wonder...has this whole experience been a mixed blessing? It forced me into IC, which made me face the cold hard truths about myself and for that I am VERY thankful. I often ask myself, "would I have experienced this much growth otherwise?" I probably wouldn't have gone to IC if I didn't end up in an A. On the otherhand, I have learned so much about myself I wouldn't trade it for the world. And in the end, no matter what happens, I have come out of this a much much better version of myself.

 

Mixed blessings for sure!

[Owl]

I've got a question for you guys. And it's an 'honest' question...meaning I really am curious about the answer and your thoughts, and not just setting you up.

 

It sounds like a couple of ya'll are hoping to still maintain a "friendship only" relationship with your MW's even if the affair doesn't continue.

 

Do you really, truly, deep down believe that you can/could maintain a "friendship only" relationship with these women? Lose whatever feelings of love you had, and maintain a friendship only with no other agenda/hopes/etc...?

 

I've always been of the opinion that once the friendship line is crossed...it's impossible to go back. You guys are 'closer' to having to deal with that than I have ever been...I'm curious how much thought you've given to that, and what you really believe would come out of that friendship?

[East7]

It sounds like a couple of ya'll are hoping to still maintain a "friendship only" relationship with your MW's even if the affair doesn't continue.

 

Talking about myself : I absolutely don't want any friendship status with MW. It's just so silly, naive and unrealistic. She has insisted that we became 'friends' which IMO was a way to keep contact with me and make her feel less guilty and more comfortable.

For me it has always been all-or-nothing. She has to pick and stay with ONE man only ! No friendship or hypocrisy whatsoever.

[UntoldStory]

I've got a question for you guys. And it's an 'honest' question...meaning I really am curious about the answer and your thoughts, and not just setting you up.

 

It sounds like a couple of ya'll are hoping to still maintain a "friendship only" relationship with your MW's even if the affair doesn't continue.

 

Do you really, truly, deep down believe that you can/could maintain a "friendship only" relationship with these women? Lose whatever feelings of love you had, and maintain a friendship only with no other agenda/hopes/etc...?

 

I've always been of the opinion that once the friendship line is crossed...it's impossible to go back. You guys are 'closer' to having to deal with that than I have ever been...I'm curious how much thought you've given to that, and what you really believe would come out of that friendship?

 

I don't know right now. What I do know is:

 

1. I got into my M because at the time (and until very recently) I fundamentally believed I didn't deserve better. I got into my EA because it was effortless and felt amazing. I'm getting out of my M because I realize I deserve to have an R at least as good and as easy as the one I have with xMM.

2. Through IC to deal with all this, something significant has shifted in me recently, hugely for the better/healthier. I am seeing my R's with men in a different light. For whatever reason, that desperate longing feeling about the A (that I didn't know if I could live the rest of my life without him, and how on earth would I find somebody else I felt the same way about) has completely gone, and left me with the understanding that I truly genuinely enjoy this guy's company, and he mine. There's nothing "foggy" about that, and it's not going away. I've stopped stressing over "does he still care??" I know he cares. Of course he cares, cause I'm a cool person.

3. I'm about to be single again and free to date. I'm not waiting around for him to make any choices. I'm gonna be out looking for Mr Right Timing. So, I'm going to enjoy the friendship for now. I feel zero stress about it, and it's adding to my life, not taking anything away. If that changes for me, I'll probably need to go NC again. If anything changes for him -- eg I find someone cool and am less available to him and he starts to freak -- we'll probably need to go NC again.

 

Would I want a chance to be with him, out in the open, free and clear? He77 yes. But I'm OK with what we've got, at least right now. Because I have options. If I were still stuck in my M, it would probably be a different story.

[East7]

Would I want a chance to be with him, out in the open, free and clear? He77 yes. But I'm OK with what we've got, at least right now. Because I have options. If I were still stuck in my M, it would probably be a different story.

 

Untoldstory, I think you are still in the denial. Firendship is never possible after love. Did you have a physical experience with him ? When we love someone it will always be love, maybe a dead love but always ex-love.

You think that you can see and be around him like a friend ? Meet his wife and say Hi ? Come on...Its just unrealistic.

There always be flirting, jealousy, hurt feelings, this is the reality. Claiming frienship will only make you look desperate.

 

If you really want to move on, you need to cut the strings completely. If he wants you in his life, he knows where to find you.