Disconnect between emotional attachment and obvious reality!!

[UntoldStory]

Untoldstory, I think you are still in the denial. Firendship is never possible after love. Did you have a physical experience with him ? When we love someone it will always be love, maybe a dead love but always ex-love..

Maybe, which is why I said I don't really know. All I know is where I'm at right now. And right now, I feel in control. I did have a physical experience with him, yeah, but it's long distance sooo......

 

You think that you can see and be around him like a friend ? Meet his wife and say Hi ?. Come on...Its just unrealistic.

This part doesn't really apply to my situation. I probably wouldn't feel as in control if I were in close physical proximity to him. But then again, maybe I would. I'm in a good place right now. Not saying it will last forever, but I've been in a baaaaaaaaaaad place for the past year and I'm enjoying the new view.

 

There always be flirting, jealousy, hurt feelings, this is the reality.

This is what I think may trip us up eventually. But we'll see.

 

Claiming frienship will only make you look desperate.

Not buying that one, though.

 

If you really want to move on, you need to cut the strings completely. If he wants you in his life, he knows where to find you.

That's what I'm exploring -- can I move on while still maintaining the good parts of the friendship. Never said it wasn't a work in progress!!

[MorningCoffee]

I've got a question for you guys. And it's an 'honest' question...meaning I really am curious about the answer and your thoughts, and not just setting you up.

 

It sounds like a couple of ya'll are hoping to still maintain a "friendship only" relationship with your MW's even if the affair doesn't continue.

 

Do you really, truly, deep down believe that you can/could maintain a "friendship only" relationship with these women? Lose whatever feelings of love you had, and maintain a friendship only with no other agenda/hopes/etc...?

 

I've always been of the opinion that once the friendship line is crossed...it's impossible to go back. You guys are 'closer' to having to deal with that than I have ever been...I'm curious how much thought you've given to that, and what you really believe would come out of that friendship?

 

Friendship, no. Maintaining an attitude of goodwill, yes.

 

Like you, Owl, I do not believe one can go back after the line from friends to intimates has been crossed, especially if the intimate relationship was a good one, as was mine. I bear her no ill will. But no way could I be friends. Couldn't do it.

[Owl]

OK...so I admit to some confusion here.

 

So if someone doesn't want to continue the affair...and recognizes that they also can't go back to being just friends...then where does ANY kind of contact still fit in?

 

I'm not saying that there should be any kind of anger or hate in any of this...but I don't understand continuing contact of any kind in this kind of circumstance?

 

You're not lovers, you're not friends, you're way more than acquaintances...

 

And how do you heal after the affair in this kind of situation where the door is still left open and confusion is still let in?

 

Again, this isn't attacking or condemning here. It's just that it seems...contradictive, counter-intuitive.

[East7]

OK...so I admit to some confusion here.

 

So if someone doesn't want to continue the affair...and recognizes that they also can't go back to being just friends...then where does ANY kind of contact still fit in?

 

I'm not saying that there should be any kind of anger or hate in any of this...but I don't understand continuing contact of any kind in this kind of circumstance?

 

You're not lovers, you're not friends, you're way more than acquaintances...

 

And how do you heal after the affair in this kind of situation where the door is still left open and confusion is still let in?

 

Again, this isn't attacking or condemning here. It's just that it seems...contradictive, counter-intuitive.

 

Owl with all then respect, not all the OM are potential 'wives predators'

 

We all agree here that we shouldn't contact them (MW). If she wants to contact, why blocking her ? Just for the pleasure of her H ?

 

It all makes sense if OM has put his burdens.

 

Do we hope to resume the A ? No ! Are we keeping the door open if she wants to come available and start a normal R ? Yes ! with condition of getting a D.

 

Putting conditions is fair for the BS and the OM both. Would you want a wife that longs for the OM ? Probably not. You would have divorced her and told her to go.

I think as much unrealistic, naive or silly it may sound, ALL the AP secretly dream that the MW will come back to them available one day. It is just human...

 

On the other hand, Not all the MW go back to their H because they really love their H; they do it often for comfort, security, children etc.

[Owl]

Fair enough. Thank you for tolerating my curiousity.

[East7]

Fair enough. Thank you for tolerating my curiousity.

 

Owl I don't think there is any agressivity in my post. I only wanted to bring you an objective point of view from an OM, that's what you were asking for.

[Owl]

You weren't agressive or argumentatitve, and I'm sorry if I came across as such. It's been a good discussion. Sometimes it's hard to interpret nuances in posts on the internet. I think it's all good.

 

FWIW, I don't believe that all OM are "wife predators" etther. Nor is my advice recommending NC based on that concept. Heck, I have NO doubt at all that OM in my own situation ended up every bit as hurt as my wife and I did during our whole ordeal. I don't "feel sorry" for him...but I no longer hold any ill will towards him either. I hope that he's happy and whole...as long as he remains out of lives that is! (LOL!)

 

From what I've learned in my time here on LS, my advice is based on the idea that most people really can't start healing until they move on, until they let themselves grieve the end of the relationship. ANY kind of contact nearly always prevents that from happening...and therefore prevents them from truly starting the healing within themselves.

 

But like I've said...it's been a good conversation.

[East7]

 

From what I've learned in my time here on LS, my advice is based on the idea that most people really can't start healing until they move on, until they let themselves grieve the end of the relationship. ANY kind of contact nearly always prevents that from happening...and therefore prevents them from truly starting the healing within themselves.

 

I totally agree..It's funny cuz I just received an email from the OW telling me that she thinks all the time about me etc...

It really destabilized me

I wrote a short, polite and cold answer.

It is so f**king hard when you are the one to stay NC and she 'knocks at the door' once in a while.

The difficult part of it is that I know (almost for sure) that her M is not going well (no D-day though but red flags to H) and my OW doesn't sound to know what she wants. I would have preferred that she was honest to her H and tell him so they could decide to work their M or separate. Keeping the status Quo, she is taking him in hostage which is unfair. On the other hand I could easily tell him all the truth but that's ugly and it is not my role.

 

Owl, what would you have preferred : 1/ your wife NOT telling you and trying to keep her OM or 2/ OM telling you the truth so you can confront her and start it from there (I know it hurts but the ugly truth is worth better then beautiful lies)

[MorningCoffee]

OK...so I admit to some confusion here.

 

So if someone doesn't want to continue the affair...and recognizes that they also can't go back to being just friends...then where does ANY kind of contact still fit in?

 

I'm not saying that there should be any kind of anger or hate in any of this...but I don't understand continuing contact of any kind in this kind of circumstance?

 

You're not lovers, you're not friends, you're way more than acquaintances...

 

And how do you heal after the affair in this kind of situation where the door is still left open and confusion is still let in?

 

Again, this isn't attacking or condemning here. It's just that it seems...contradictive, counter-intuitive.

 

I have healed a lot from the pain of the loss of my ex-AP/MW. But as for what might be in the future, at my stage in life, I have learned 'never to say never' unless I really, really mean it.

 

In the past several years, EVERYTHING that I have known for more than 40 years (other than my health and my child, thank God for both) has vanished. Career gone, long time spouse deceased, on and on. All my 'roles' are obsolete. I am building my life all over again.

 

In the last several years of being solo, I have had several relationships varying in degrees of depth, quality, mutuality, but only one that constituted both a deep, deep emotional connection as well as transcendental physical compatibility. Unfortunately, circumstances prevented the testing and maturing of the relationship under real life conditions because it was an affair.

 

I know that neither of us would want a return to the affair -- too stressful as well as unhealthy, and incredibly hurtful. I am moving on in my life, meeting new people, dating when I can, and working on my own development.

 

But connections like this one do not come along very often in life, and we mean a lot to each other even though circumstances do not permit us to see each other. Neither of us wants to 'continue the affair,' yet neither of us wants to terminate the relationship. We still love each other. So occasional contact, for now anyway, seems to be OK for her and for me. Can't be anything more than that, though, as long as she is in her marriage because her paying me any attention is hurtful to her H, and because I'd soon want more. Again, for now anyway, this is OK.

 

One friend tells me that each such occasional contact between my ex-AP and me means we are that much closer to resolution, i.e., either completely weaning ourselves away from each other or to actually being together. I don't know, but that seems to feel true. Since we do not get to try it out in real life, the best we can do is sort of check in with each other once in a while. Not easy, but I do always learn something that helps me understand her and myself better. And if occasional contact starts to be more painful than helpful, back to NC I will go.

[ladydesigner]

I have healed a lot from the pain of the loss of my ex-AP/MW. But as for what might be in the future, at my stage in life, I have learned 'never to say never' unless I really, really mean it.

 

In the past several years, EVERYTHING that I have known for more than 40 years (other than my health and my child, thank God for both) has vanished. Career gone, long time spouse deceased, on and on. All my 'roles' are obsolete. I am building my life all over again.

 

In the last several years of being solo, I have had several relationships varying in degrees of depth, quality, mutuality, but only one that constituted both a deep, deep emotional connection as well as transcendental physical compatibility. Unfortunately, circumstances prevented the testing and maturing of the relationship under real life conditions because it was an affair.

 

I know that neither of us would want a return to the affair -- too stressful as well as unhealthy, and incredibly hurtful. I am moving on in my life, meeting new people, dating when I can, and working on my own development.

 

But connections like this one do not come along very often in life, and we mean a lot to each other even though circumstances do not permit us to see each other. Neither of us wants to 'continue the affair,' yet neither of us wants to terminate the relationship. We still love each other. So occasional contact, for now anyway, seems to be OK for her and for me. Can't be anything more than that, though, as long as she is in her marriage because her paying me any attention is hurtful to her H, and because I'd soon want more. Again, for now anyway, this is OK.

 

One friend tells me that each such occasional contact between my ex-AP and me means we are that much closer to resolution, i.e., either completely weaning ourselves away from each other or to actually being together. I don't know, but that seems to feel true. Since we do not get to try it out in real life, the best we can do is sort of check in with each other once in a while. Not easy, but I do always learn something that helps me understand her and myself better. And if occasional contact starts to be more painful than helpful, back to NC I will go.

 

These situations are so painful. I know when I was in LC "friend mode" with my XOM, I honestly thought I could do it, but with every contact came a renewed hope that maybe he still had feelings for me and on and on. I couldn't heal. Here I was 1 year after ending hadn't seen him in a year and by being in LC even through email was keeping me in a state of despair, anxiety, uneasiness, insecurity, and totally irrational. My XOM was my addiction and he knew that and I believe kept me at his beck and call. It was awful. NC as hard as it has been has given me peace. I don't EVER want to contact him, see him, or hear from him ever again. Not because I don't like him, but because it is a situation I care not to repeat again.

[Owl]

I totally agree..It's funny cuz I just received an email from the OW telling me that she thinks all the time about me etc...

It really destabilized me

I wrote a short, polite and cold answer.

It is so f**king hard when you are the one to stay NC and she 'knocks at the door' once in a while.

The difficult part of it is that I know (almost for sure) that her M is not going well (no D-day though but red flags to H) and my OW doesn't sound to know what she wants. I would have preferred that she was honest to her H and tell him so they could decide to work their M or separate. Keeping the status Quo, she is taking him in hostage which is unfair. On the other hand I could easily tell him all the truth but that's ugly and it is not my role.

 

Owl, what would you have preferred : 1/ your wife NOT telling you and trying to keep her OM or 2/ OM telling you the truth so you can confront her and start it from there (I know it hurts but the ugly truth is worth better then beautiful lies)

 

I would have preferred the truth so that I could deal with the situation as need be. Either reconciliation or divorce. I don't like being lied to and kept in the dark about things that will majorly impact my life. To me, that lying and deception on her part is nothing more than her way of preventing her husband from making his own choices based on all the facts. He should be given the choice here as well...to either try to save his marriage or end it, based on that information.

 

I'm sorry to hear what you're feeling right now, my friend.

 

You've got to look at it this way...this is as much of an addiction for her as it is for you. That's why she keeps "knocking at the door" so often...she's not capable of ending this on her own. She is the one who is straddling the fence, going back and forth trying to keep both because she doesn't want to choose one over the other.

 

That's going to go on until something changes the dynamic. Either her H finds out and forces a decision, or you're finally hurt enough by her indecision to force a choice from your side.

 

Just remember...you've got the same amount of "power" to make change here as she does. Or as much as her H will once he's aware of the situation.

 

Everyone chooses to be where they're at...until they choose to change that too.

[YellowShark]

I would have preferred the truth so that I could deal with the situation as need be. Either reconciliation or divorce. I don't like being lied to and kept in the dark about things that will majorly impact my life. To me, that lying and deception on her part is nothing more than her way of preventing her husband from making his own choices based on all the facts. He should be given the choice here as well...to either try to save his marriage or end it, based on that information.

 

That's the part of affairs I have so much trouble understanding. The betrayal aspect. How can the AP ever "trust" someone who they know is undermining their own family/BS? And how can the AP ever really trust a WS who can throw their own family/BS under a bus?

 

I guess I am just wired differently than most in this section of Loveshack.

Edited October 29, 2010 by YellowShark

[MorningCoffee]

One friend tells me that each such occasional contact between my ex-AP and me means we are that much closer to resolution, i.e., either completely weaning ourselves away from each other or to actually being together. I don't know, but that seems to feel true. Since we do not get to try it out in real life, the best we can do is sort of check in with each other once in a while. Not easy, but I do always learn something that helps me understand her and myself better. And if occasional contact starts to be more painful than helpful, back to NC I will go.

 

Can I follow up my own post here? Had a convo with ex-AP/MW -- learned some really important stuff that makes me see her in a new and less alluring light. Stuff that I'm sure I'd have discovered about her one way or another if we had either been in a regular R instead of an affair, or if she'd left her M and we'd spent more time together. Stuff that I think only came to her after her ending the affair at D-Day and their follow-up MC (it's about her, not their M).

 

I won't go into it due to TMI but I feel it tells me that it would never have worked out for us in any case. Had we not been having this occasional contact, I would not have ever had a way to discover this, and I might have gone on lamenting that we never got to try out the R in real life.

 

Now I am sitting with this disquieting revelation. Disquieting, because I was so totally unaware of it. But so helpful to my process of taking what was good and letting go and moving on. How about that?

[East7]

.... She is the one who is straddling the fence, going back and forth trying to keep both because she doesn't want to choose one over the other.

......

 

This has always been our major conflict since the beginning, me asking her to pick the man she wants to be with and stick with it ! She kept refusing to choose, telling she cannot choose.

 

That's going to go on until something changes the dynamic. Either her H finds out and forces a decision, or you're finally hurt enough by her indecision to force a choice from your side.

 

Just remember...you've got the same amount of "power" to make change here as she does. Or as much as her H will once he's aware of the situation.

 

 

Her H will probably never now (No D-day) he had some signs but nothing explicit.

Now, for us is over ! She had the ultimatum 'If you want me or keep a R, get a D and come back' I was very clear with her. So I'm sticking with it.

[East7]

Can I follow up my own post here? Had a convo with ex-AP/MW -- learned some really important stuff that makes me see her in a new and less alluring light. Stuff that I'm sure I'd have discovered about her one way or another if we had either been in a regular R instead of an affair, or if she'd left her M and we'd spent more time together. Stuff that I think only came to her after her ending the affair at D-Day and their follow-up MC (it's about her, not their M).

 

I won't go into it due to TMI but I feel it tells me that it would never have worked out for us in any case. Had we not been having this occasional contact, I would not have ever had a way to discover this, and I might have gone on lamenting that we never got to try out the R in real life.

 

Now I am sitting with this disquieting revelation. Disquieting, because I was so totally unaware of it. But so helpful to my process of taking what was good and letting go and moving on. How about that?

 

Sorry for you mate,

I wonder what is that so terrible about her (but I have an idea...)

On one hand the deceit is terrible because she was perfect in your eyes, but on the other hand this event will help you to move on.

[MorningCoffee]

Sorry for you mate,

I wonder what is that so terrible about her (but I have an idea...)

On one hand the deceit is terrible because she was perfect in your eyes, but on the other hand this event will help you to move on.

 

Not deceit (thankful for that, as I have seen here on LS how shattering the discovery of having been intentionally deceived can be). Rather, aspects of personality. Things that, well, that's just the way she is. Can't detail more. But I perceived major incompatibility for the long haul. So I can let go of the "what might have been" now, because it could not and would not have been!

 

It's ironic too that when I started posting on LS, I was fiercely going NC. Months later, we have some renewed phone or email contact and after a few times of that, I learn what I feel will make it really possible for me to leave this affair behind me, with good lessons learned and some really good memories as well. It is a good day!

Edited October 29, 2010 by MorningCoffee

[East7]

Not deceit (thankful for that, as I have seen here on LS how shattering the discovery of having been intentionally deceived can be). Rather, aspects of personality. Things that, well, that's just the way she is. Can't detail more. But I perceived major incompatibility for the long haul. So I can let go of the "what might have been" now, because it could not and would not have been!

 

It's ironic too that when I started posting on LS, I was fiercely going NC. Months later, we have some renewed phone or email contact and after a few times of that, I learn what I feel will make it really possible for me to leave this affair behind me, with good lessons learned and some really good memories as well. It is a good day!

 

'What could have been' is the major question after it ends. The taste of something unachieved...I know the feeling. Anyway good for you that you saw her true colors. We are often too blinded with feelings during the A and don't see the people for who they really are.

[FightClub]

MC, How are you? I'm new here but just began began reading your journey through your experience with the MW. I understand that you don't wish to reveal in detail the circumstances surrounding the revelation of your MW's issues, but I can't help but find it useful for myself if you could atleast describe at least in some detail ( If you have to change facts, that would be great! ) what exactly would have kept you two from getting together with what was revealed?

 

I'm curious because I feel as though it might help me with some perspective on something with my xMW as well. Thank you.

 

-FC

[MorningCoffee]

MC, How are you? I'm new here but just began began reading your journey through your experience with the MW. I understand that you don't wish to reveal in detail the circumstances surrounding the revelation of your MW's issues, but I can't help but find it useful for myself if you could atleast describe at least in some detail ( If you have to change facts, that would be great! ) what exactly would have kept you two from getting together with what was revealed?

 

I'm curious because I feel as though it might help me with some perspective on something with my xMW as well. Thank you.

 

-FC

 

I'm doing great, thanks. Have communicated to ex-AP/MW clearly that I am done with contact, wish her well, but not to call me. Have blocked phone and email. Moving on.

 

As for the issues we did not see eye to eye on the meaning of love and marriage. I also decided I knew enough to conclude that she could never wholeheartedly give herself to me.

 

Hope that helps.