Disconnect between emotional attachment and obvious reality!!

[MorningCoffee]

MC, I understand this desire very well. Recently xMM got back in touch with me after six months with his 'blah, blah, blahs' but was wishy washy with reasons. I didn't get it. Why bother with contact for no real point? After the conversations, and each one leaving me 'Eh?' I asked him for reasons and he told me. I don't know what I expected, him to have changed in his attitude or whatever, but all I received was the same message that I had six months prior. A lot has changed for him BUT as much has changed for me in that I am no longer willing to pander to another's emotional needs at the detriment of my own. I can't. Emotionally, it's not that 'we' have no chance, it's that 'he' has no chance of being emotionally fully available to anyone until he can own his own emotional decisions, if that makes sense. He is caught in a web of lies, lies he believes he tells to avoid hurting others, but they instead have the opposite effect because nobody truly knows where they stand with him and that is not a position I want.

 

I agree with Chris, don't look for their reasons - just find your own. You are responsible for your own happiness. Does she make you truly happy? Or does she only bring you pain? If you eliminate her from your life and get back to NC, will you eventually be free from it? MC, leave her emotional shortcomings to her - if she isn't prepared to own them then why should you be?

 

 

Excellent, Hazy. I feel for her, for her struggles but in the end, they are hers, not mine. I have given a lot of thought to the bolded questions, over the months. My conclusions are that being her beloved, sharing emotional intimacy (and our lovin') all made me happy, while her unavailability, indecisiveness, and drama made me unhappy. But the latter tarnish and put out of reach the former, with altogether too much drama, so I am moving on.

[MorningCoffee]

That's a great question Hazy .. not just in connection with this post .. but across the board ...

 

I see so many poeple who believe that the person is bringing happiness into their lives .. whereas from a non-involved standpoint it seems pretty clear that all the person brings is drama.

 

Now, maybe drama sometimes distracts one from one's own life and in that way DOES make one happy ... but in that one case one needs to be honest and say it's not the person that makes you happy but the fact that they distract one from being unhappy.

 

Why not cut to the root and focus on oneself and why one is unhappy ... rather than letting someone else's drama distract you from tackling yourself.

 

MC - not saying this in any way applies to you .. just Hazy's comment struck me in a "general" sense ...

 

C

 

Ah, but the comment does indeed apply, Chris. What I found that I was missing, what was making me unhappy, was not having the depth of connection that I had been used to having in my longterm marriage. Since being widowed, I have dated a bunch, had one great girlfriend whom I saw for about a year, and that was great as far as it went. But it ended when it was clear that I was not available to her to have our relationship deepen beyond that -- I was fine with that then, widowed so recently, I wasn't emotionally ready. Timing and circumstances did not permit more.

 

Once I became involved with ex-AP, I was ecstatic to enjoy a really deep emotional connection, which just made all the rest that much better. At the same time, my desire to get it out in the open, to make it more real than our affair could be, just made her unavailability and indecisiveness all the more frustrating. Until her circumstances changed, it would remain impossible to see how and whether our relationship could really develop into, or not develop into, the real deal.

 

I learned in a very profound way what I was missing and wanted in my life, and at the same time experienced the most excruciating frustration at the circumstances being precisely such that I was prevented from being able to attain it, at least with ex-AP. No point in continuing to hold onto a dream that has no chance of realization.

 

Timing -- sometimes it can be all about timing. Oh well, I am grateful for the experience of our knowing and loving each other, and will never regret it. Now, time to move onward!

Edited October 2, 2010 by MorningCoffee

[silverplanets]

Ah, but the comment does indeed apply, Chris. What I found that I was missing, what was making me unhappy, was not having the depth of connection that I had been used to having in my longterm marriage. Since being widowed, I have dated a bunch, had one great girlfriend whom I saw for about a year, and that was great as far as it went. But it ended when it was clear that I was not available to her to have our relationship deepen beyond that -- I was fine with that then, widowed so recently, I wasn't emotionally ready. Timing and circumstances did not permit more.

 

Once I became involved with ex-AP, I was ecstatic to enjoy a really deep emotional connection, which just made all the rest that much better. At the same time, my desire to get it out in the open, to make it more real than our affair could be, just made her unavailability and indecisiveness all the more frustrating. Until her circumstances changed, it would remain impossible to see how and whether our relationship could really develop into, or not develop into, the real deal.

 

I learned in a very profound way what I was missing and wanted in my life, and at the same time experienced the most excruciating frustration at the circumstances being precisely such that I was prevented from being able to attain it, at least with ex-AP. No point in continuing to hold onto a dream that has no chance of realization.

 

Timing -- sometimes it can be all about timing. Oh well, I am grateful for the experience of our knowing and loving each other, and will never regret it. Now, time to move onward!

 

MC,

 

Sometimes the simplest of posts, which talk about things in the most normal of ways can hide the deepest of pain, reflection, learning and discovery.

 

I feel that it is this way with what you said above.

 

Sometimes behind the simplest of conculsions is the most complex journey.

 

I agree, timing, it can all be about timing ....

 

I would also say, that if you love, understand, know and value yourself in the way you obviously do then at least your are being true to yourself. And if you are true to yourself then when you do meet someone they will fall in love with you for who you are ... in all and evey way.

 

Here's to the future

 

Chris

[MorningCoffee]

MC,

 

Sometimes the simplest of posts, which talk about things in the most normal of ways can hide the deepest of pain, reflection, learning and discovery.

 

I feel that it is this way with what you said above.

 

Sometimes behind the simplest of conculsions is the most complex journey.

 

I agree, timing, it can all be about timing ....

 

I would also say, that if you love, understand, know and value yourself in the way you obviously do then at least your are being true to yourself. And if you are true to yourself then when you do meet someone they will fall in love with you for who you are ... in all and evey way.

 

Here's to the future

 

Chris

 

I'll join you in that toast!

 

Feel I have turned a corner. This past weekend I could actually recall some times in the affair that were special or meaningful and not feel any pain, just a fondness. That is progress.

 

And I have printed out and taped up on my fridge where I see it daily the following:

 

"She's GONE.

I'm MOVIN' ON!"

 

Thanks again, Chris.

[MorningCoffee]

I have made so much progress since the last series of posts. I can literally feel the healing, as I am now generally free of that searing heartache.

 

My proof is how I reacted to my ex-AP/MW's most recent attempts (2 calls) at contact. The first, I was in an exercise class and had my phone off. When I finished, I found I had a voicemail message from her. No particular reason for the call, she just wanted to get my thoughts about something.

 

My immediate reaction reflects how far I have come. First, I saw she had gone back to use an anonymous online service she had found where she can make calls and then delete the traces on the computer. She first came up with it and used it a couple months ago as a way to hide from her husband that she was breaking her promise to him not to initiate contact with me. I objected then to her sneaking like that to break NC, saying you're with your husband, not with me, so if you're going to contact me do it openly and own the reality. (And the last contact since then she did make from her own phone, which I felt was healthier -- I know, I know, as if anything about breaking NC short of divorce is healthy - ). So I felt her going back to the hidden method this time truly disrespected me.

 

Second, her refusal in our last email exchange to answer me and tell me what I needed to know, along with her request that I "stop pursuing" but "not stop loving" her, (which was what started this thread) I had taken the helpful advice of LS-ers here and regarded as my cues for closure. I was moving on. Thus, when this latest, hidden attempt was made, my immediate reaction was she had no particular reason to call (meaning: she was not calling to tell me they were done and divorcing), she just wanted my thoughts (meaning: she wanted a fix that would give her an ego boost). But I felt she had already forfeited any claim on "getting my thoughts."

 

When my cell rang an hour later and I saw it was her again, calling through that same, deletable and deniable, online phone service, I ignored the call.

 

In the days since, I have considered an email to lay all this out to her, so she'd get it. But I decided that I had already had the conversation I needed, had made my objections known and any kind of contact I insist as a minimum must not be by sneaking as I intend to keep my self-respect. I am confident she knows exactly why I did not take the calls: she is deliberately choosing not to be honest about making contact with me.

 

I am making progress in setting a boundary. Imagine that! Me, holding my ex-AP/MW to my boundary!

Edited October 19, 2010 by MorningCoffee

[jj33]

So pleased for you. Holding your boundaries and doing what is right for you always feels better than going along with the status quo regardless of how it hurts your feelings.

[pureinheart]

I have made so much progress since the last series of posts. I can literally feel the healing, as I am now generally free of that searing heartache.

 

My proof is how I reacted to my ex-AP/MW's most recent attempts (2 calls) at contact. The first, I was in an exercise class and had my phone off. When I finished, I found I had a voicemail message from her. No particular reason for the call, she just wanted to get my thoughts about something.

 

My immediate reaction reflects how far I have come. First, I saw she had gone back to use an anonymous online service she had found where she can make calls and then delete the traces on the computer. She first came up with it and used it a couple months ago as a way to hide from her husband that she was breaking her promise to him not to initiate contact with me. I objected then to her sneaking like that to break NC, saying you're with your husband, not with me, so if you're going to contact me do it openly and own the reality. (And the last contact since then she did make from her own phone, which I felt was healthier -- I know, I know, as if anything about breaking NC short of divorce is healthy - ). So I felt her going back to the hidden method this time truly disrespected me.

 

Second, her refusal in our last email exchange to answer me and tell me what I needed to know, along with her request that I "stop pursuing" but "not stop loving" her, (which was what started this thread) I had taken the helpful advice of LS-ers here and regarded as my cues for closure. I was moving on. Thus, when this latest, hidden attempt was made, my immediate reaction was she had no particular reason to call (meaning: she was not calling to tell me they were done and divorcing), she just wanted my thoughts (meaning: she wanted a fix that would give her an ego boost). But I felt she had already forfeited any claim on "getting my thoughts."

 

When my cell rang an hour later and I saw it was her again, calling through that same, deletable and deniable, online phone service, I ignored the call.

 

In the days since, I have considered an email to lay all this out to her, so she'd get it. But I decided that I had already had the conversation I needed, had made my objections known and any kind of contact I insist as a minimum must not be by sneaking as I intend to keep my self-respect. I am confident she knows exactly why I did not take the calls: she is deliberately choosing not to be honest about making contact with me.

 

I am making progress in setting a boundary. Imagine that! Me, holding my ex-AP/MW to my boundary!

 

MC...it is just really hard. That's the thing I had the hardest time with was being "hidden" in certain aspects...there was nothing definitative, that I could stick my teeth into. Everything seemed unreal after a time...it's like, did that just happen?

 

When I realised I wanted more all of the "hidden" ways he used seemed to be a slap in the face to me.

 

MC, you have no choice but to roll, just like I did. I'm not much of a conformist, no matter what it is and I was unable to conform to his way of living...even now lol.

 

MC, I know there are many that come and go on this forum that are very angry, and I understand that, although my advice would be to move past that anger and bitterness asap with no regrets, then and only then is the event a distant memory, because even regrets hold you to the past.

 

(((((((((((MC))))))))))

[MorningCoffee]

Incredible. She tried again this morning with the hidden phone, and I ignored it again.

 

Thanks, jj and pure, I appreciate your support.

[sc58]

MC, I wish I was as strong as you...This is only the 5th day of NC for me and I doubt I would be able to ignore it if he did call...

 

But I'm glad for you! I too wish that my MM would have just told me straight that he didn't want to be with me, that he'll never leave his wife. But of course he left me this bit of hope that maybe, just maybe we'll be together someday. He loves me, he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, he knows he'll never be as happy with her as with me, and that he'll regret letting me go. BUT he wants to work on his marriage, even though he doesn't think it has much of a chance. What's the point in that? Maybe he wants to give me this hope knowing how desperately in love with him I am so in the event his marriage does not work out, I'm still there. I don't know. I hate trying to figure out what goes on in his mind. It's exasperating.

[MorningCoffee]

MC, I wish I was as strong as you...This is only the 5th day of NC for me and I doubt I would be able to ignore it if he did call...

 

But I'm glad for you! I too wish that my MM would have just told me straight that he didn't want to be with me, that he'll never leave his wife. But of course he left me this bit of hope that maybe, just maybe we'll be together someday. He loves me, he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, he knows he'll never be as happy with her as with me, and that he'll regret letting me go. BUT he wants to work on his marriage, even though he doesn't think it has much of a chance. What's the point in that? Maybe he wants to give me this hope knowing how desperately in love with him I am so in the event his marriage does not work out, I'm still there. I don't know. I hate trying to figure out what goes on in his mind. It's exasperating.

 

Hey, sc, thanks, but I can tell you in no uncertain terms when I was 5 days NC I was a basket case. Totally. No way would I have ignored any contact then, either.

 

If you read my earlier threads, you'll see it's now 7 months since the last time I saw her, and I went for 5 months of NC before I felt I had to break it in order to get the answer for myself: was she really working towards leaving her marriage or not. By that time, I had myself finally together enough that I could handle the answer. And from what I heard I finally concluded that nice words say one thing, but lack of actions says another and that is no, she is not, at least not any time soon. So, there really is no point to continued contact. All it does is pitch me a bit of drama, and I have had enough of that.

 

But I could not have reached that conclusion -- heck, couldn't have even entertained the idea of it -- when I was only a few days NC. As someone else has written, it takes as long as it takes. Hang in there, post as much as you need to for support, it is a rough time, but it will get better.

[sc58]

Hi MC, I did read your earlier threads and realize that we are at different points, but understood what you meant about the whole "disconnect from reality" thing. The emotional attachment clouds your judgment when they are SAYING "I love you, I want to be with you, you make me so happy" etc. etc. while they do NOTHING about it. Although I am only 5 days into NC, I am starting to realize that I can't let my emotions stop me from seeing the reality of the situation - which is that he is NOT leaving her, and I should stop clinging on to this little bit of hope he has given me. And it is because of you and others here on LS that I am coming to this realization so quickly and I thank you for that.

 

Knowing that you and others have gotten through this tough time gives me hope that I too will get through it and come out of it a better person. Thanks for the support!

[Circular]

Even at 6 months it can be confusing. I'm still a bit confused but my head is in much better place. It still hits me pretty heavily at times, though what I enjoy the most is when I focus on a project I can stay focused on it and not get all clouded by what was once consuming all my time.

 

I will say though, it's hard to hear someone say "I love you. You know how much I love you. And I'm yours, you have me." and then nearly 5 weeks later have to walk-away because it's just another High/Low drop on the roller-coaster and I decided to get off before it really damaged things.

[MorningCoffee]

My ex-AP/MW has tried three times in four days to reach me via the erasable and deletable online phone thing. I have not responded to her in any way. But I did spend some time composing, revising and re-composing a lengthy email to set out the boundaries, why I was not taking or returning the calls, etc.

 

Then I thought, the heck with that. I boiled it down to a couple sentences. All that explanation was not needed - I had already told her in no uncertain terms that the invisible crap was not acceptable to me. I feel disrespected at her doing it anyway, and she already knows all she needs to know about how and why I feel as I do.

 

Finally, I balled up even the short, short version, tossed it in the trash.

 

Not yet at a point where I'd say NC forever, but I surely do not want this to continue. So I added the service to my cell account and blocked the number that appears when she uses the service. If it works to stop her trying to reach me by stealth, it'll be worth the $5/month charge.

 

If she is going to contact me, darn it, she has to own the reality of it.

[ladydesigner]

My ex-AP/MW has tried three times in four days to reach me via the erasable and deletable online phone thing. I have not responded to her in any way. But I did spend some time composing, revising and re-composing a lengthy email to set out the boundaries, why I was not taking or returning the calls, etc.

 

Then I thought, the heck with that. I boiled it down to a couple sentences. All that explanation was not needed - I had already told her in no uncertain terms that the invisible crap was not acceptable to me. I feel disrespected at her doing it anyway, and she already knows all she needs to know about how and why I feel as I do.

 

Finally, I balled up even the short, short version, tossed it in the trash.

 

Not yet at a point where I'd say NC forever, but I surely do not want this to continue. So I added the service to my cell account and blocked the number that appears when she uses the service. If it works to stop her trying to reach me by stealth, it'll be worth the $5/month charge.

 

If she is going to contact me, darn it, she has to own the reality of it.

 

Wow I would be completely embarrassed to be her. When my XOM ignored an email I knew damn well what it meant. It hurt but I was not about to become stalkerish and let it drive me insane. Have some pride I tell ya. Sheesh. Good for you for not out stepping your boundaries. Once they are set it should stay that way, otherwise why make them in the first place. I knew when I decided to go NC and I sent my XOM an email to let him know I wanted NC, I knew there was no going back... no waffling. It was DONE. He proceeded to contact and I ignored. I haven't heard from him since.

[Spark1111]

Good FOR YOU MC!

 

You are drawing lines in the sand out of personal strength and integrity!

 

You are telling yoiurself in no uncertain terms what you will or will not tolerate in terms of behavior an treatment at the hands of others.

 

No email, letter, airplane pulling a banner, or carrier pidgeon will communicate any better what you want and need as well as you do!

 

And what did you learn? She does not really care what you want or need from her. She ignored that.

 

Because what she needs from you is all she is thinking of right now. How unfair to you, yes? How selfish, yes?

 

Be proud of your proactive measures to grow stronger.

[spice4life]

Wow, good for you MC! You set a boundary and stuck with it. That in itself should make you feel great. Her reaching out to you "under cover" like that after you told her not to speaks volumes. Good for you for maintaining your self respect.

[MorningCoffee]

Good FOR YOU MC!

 

You are drawing lines in the sand out of personal strength and integrity!

 

You are telling yoiurself in no uncertain terms what you will or will not tolerate in terms of behavior an treatment at the hands of others.

 

No email, letter, airplane pulling a banner, or carrier pidgeon will communicate any better what you want and need as well as you do!

 

And what did you learn? She does not really care what you want or need from her. She ignored that.

 

Because what she needs from you is all she is thinking of right now. How unfair to you, yes? How selfish, yes?

Be proud of your proactive measures to grow stronger.

 

Thanks, I appreciate it.

 

The bolded parts? Mulling over those truths can still bring up a tear (but no longer at all 'devastating' -- not even close. Now more like WTF? -- LOL)

[MorningCoffee]

Wow, good for you MC! You set a boundary and stuck with it. That in itself should make you feel great. Her reaching out to you "under cover" like that after you told her not to speaks volumes. Good for you for maintaining your self respect.

 

Thanks, Spice. It's amazing to realize where I am now, compared to not too many weeks back.

 

I have gotten so much from LS and read of so much pain, etc., I just wanted to post a little bit of progress too, in hopes it might bolster others to see the future can brighten.

 

Happy at the responses.

[MorningCoffee]

Good for you for not out stepping your boundaries. Once they are set it should stay that way, otherwise why make them in the first place.

 

Lots of truth in that second statement. I am living proof of what happens when you either do not have boundaries or, after setting one, are wishy washy about it when they test it, as the AP inevitably will.

 

The above quote sums up what I have learned in the past few months and in a more indelible way than ever before.

 

Thank you.

[MorningCoffee]

On reflection, I am thinking this little tussle over stealth phone contact may be just a silly power struggle, over who controls whatever relationship we have. As the married partner, she always had control before during the actual affair because it was her schedule, her husband's, and her responsibilities that all had to be taken into account to carry on our affair. But now, here I am wresting away my control over something, i.e., access to me. Perhaps that is why she is deliberately trying to get me to pick up the phone on that bogus number. "Hah! I say, Hah!" (bonus points for identifying that line)

[Circular]

On reflection, I am thinking this little tussle over stealth phone contact may be just a silly power struggle, over who controls whatever relationship we have. As the married partner, she always had control before during the actual affair because it was her schedule, her husband's, and her responsibilities that all had to be taken into account to carry on our affair. But now, here I am wresting away my control over something, i.e., access to me. Perhaps that is why she is deliberately trying to get me to pick up the phone on that bogus number. "Hah! I say, Hah!" (bonus points for identifying that line)

 

There is probably some truth to this. My xAP I had given most of the relationship control over because she shouldered the greater risk. When you take control back you are also saying "You cant take me for granted anymore" and they have to deal with it. She's fishing for a response form you. I'd just stay NC, if at some point she comes to terms wants an open discussion, etc... then maybe have that discussion, but none of the hiding bit, that's all about holding onto an agenda.

[spice4life]

Interesting points mc and circular. I did the same thing - relinquished control because he was the married one. There was also an unspoken rule that certain subjects were completely off limits. I often wondered, given the circumstances, why not have an open honest discussion about it all. You know, a sit down of sorts and talk about what it all means instead of having to guess your way there. I suppose that is part of having all of the control too. I wrestled with that a lot in my situation. I wanted to talk about things but was never sure or felt comfortable enough to bring it up. I felt it would chase him away. How crazy is that?! Why couldn't I just ask him face to face?

 

Sorry for thread jacking. These are some thoughts that came to mind after reading this thread.

Edited October 21, 2010 by spice4life
just because

[East7]

 

But light contact has proved to be too much for me. The other night, I emailed her, asking for any actions as opposed to words. Her reply was that she won’t answer my questions, she loves me, she’s there if I need her, but she would like me to stop pursuing her. Not stop loving her, just stop pursuing her.

 

Advice?

 

I'm going through the same experience mate....Except that she is "pursuing" me while I keep NC.

My MW, ask me to love her but that she can't be with me, for "all kind of reasons" and she has to fix her marriage...But that she needs me in her life.

Very strange behavior...

 

This is typical self-centered woman who needs to know that someone is loving her (because probably her H is NOT loving her) not to boost the ego but because probably she is NEEDY and INSECURE and she needs a Provider (H) and a Lover (you).

If she really loves you, either she would want to be with you, or she would let you enjoy your life without asking emotional support.

 

Going back to a loveless marriage and wanting you loving her is terribly selfish because you can be a "emotional patch" until she divorces and then you have NO Guaranty that once single she will rush to call you and want her in her life.

This is the main illusion that all we OM have, we think that once her D is done, she will run to us in a heartbeat and want to live happily ever. The ugly truth is that those who break the marriage after un affair are not mentally ready to get their lover back, or they will do it in a messy way, will blow cold and hot, will keep you suffering in a emotional roller-coaster etc.

 

IMO the best solution is to cut off in ALL-OR-NOTHING decision, go on NC and not expect anything. If she was meant to be yours, she knows how to find you.

[MorningCoffee]

I'm going through the same experience mate....Except that she is "pursuing" me while I keep NC.

My MW, ask me to love her but that she can't be with me, for "all kind of reasons" and she has to fix her marriage...But that she needs me in her life.

Very strange behavior...

 

This is typical self-centered woman who needs to know that someone is loving her (because probably her H is NOT loving her) not to boost the ego but because probably she is NEEDY and INSECURE and she needs a Provider (H) and a Lover (you).

If she really loves you, either she would want to be with you, or she would let you enjoy your life without asking emotional support.

 

Going back to a loveless marriage and wanting you loving her is terribly selfish because you can be a "emotional patch" until she divorces and then you have NO Guaranty that once single she will rush to call you and want her in her life.

This is the main illusion that all we OM have, we think that once her D is done, she will run to us in a heartbeat and want to live happily ever. The ugly truth is that those who break the marriage after un affair are not mentally ready to get their lover back, or they will do it in a messy way, will blow cold and hot, will keep you suffering in a emotional roller-coaster etc.

 

IMO the best solution is to cut off in ALL-OR-NOTHING decision, go on NC and not expect anything. If she was meant to be yours, she knows how to find you.

 

Condolences, East. I do know what you mean. I went over and read your original post about your situation and a couple things there struck a chord for me. One, your MW says her H is a good guy, etc. and she needs him for that but wants you in her life too. Mine said the same - H was a good father, a good provider, very solid and committed, but lacking in emotional connection, passion, intimacy (i.e., sex was 'empty', 'just sex'). So she has waffled about leaving/staying/leaving/staying for several years now. It's maddening - like WTF?????

 

The other thing was the reaction when you painted a picture of the two of you together, you a stepdad, and all, and she reacted as if it scared her. My MW had the same reaction when I told her I wanted to be the man in her life and I would do whatever it took to make that happen. That level of determination scared her. She feared that she would waffle and I would get tired of her indecision and disappear. Now it's months later with almost no contact and yet she still wants me to keep loving her and hanging on. Selfish.

Edited October 23, 2010 by MorningCoffee

[spice4life]

...But that she needs me in her life.

Very strange behavior...

 

This made me chuckle. It is so true though. And when you read through these pages you see that almost everyone involved with a MM/MW is experiencing the very same thing. It's absolutely maddening isn't it? the only thing you can do is either accept it for what it is or withdraw and start living your life.

 

Thanks for the chuckle.

Edited October 23, 2010 by spice4life