He questions MY "commitment" ?!?

[Star_Bright]

Maybe he has this skill of turning it all around back on me... because I sit here going crazy thinking, was he really emotionally abusing me? Is he just a horrible communicator when he's upset? But I DO know it was like Jekyll and Hyde and I hate that.

[silverplanets]

Just a thought ...

 

Leaving to go to a "friends house" is probably a lot different to leaving to go to another woman as far as the wife is concerned ....

 

Leaving to a friends house can be classed as "taking a breather", "spending some time alone" ... all of which can be done without irrevocably breaking the marriage in the eyes of the wife ..

 

Wheras leaving to be with you would be much more of a "one way" decision .. ie he would be burning bridges with his w.

 

By being aggressive with you he maybe creating a scenario where he can then justify keeping you at a distance for a while, allowing him to play out the friends house scenario and keep the road to both you and his wife open.

 

So a case of making a lot of noise in one place so you don't go asking detailed questions where he doesn't want you looking .... put you on the defensive so you won't attack , if you like.

 

Also, agree with the others that projection looks pretty likely as well.

 

[Ellin]

Hi Star Bright.

 

He's insecure and feels that he might not be good enough to keep an attractive woman like you interested, once you live together full time.

 

Perhaps because he knows that living together is not as exciting as just seeing each other sometimes.

 

He obviously has confidence issues, which is pretty common, and now that he's going to move out of his comfort zone, this has got much worse than usual, which is something I can understand.

 

Despite that he might be completely harmless, just insecure. I just wonder what you mean by saying he treated you cruelly.

[siuys]

StarBright, I am sorry you are in this situation. I haven't had time to read all responses, but I think your MM is very insecure and if there is any hope of it working out, he needs to stand on his own two feet and be independent. Sounds like he's afraid of pain, and wants a guarantee from you. He is full of fear and I think IC and time away from you will help you both.

 

I also think this is not a good dynamic between the two of you, and could be indicative of what is to come. If it's disrupting your life that much, you probably need to step away and get a clear head.

 

I'm on day 11 of NC and despite separated man contacted me, I am MUCH clearer about what I want and don't want, and what I am willing to put up with. I think more distance will help you. He's mucking you around emotionally.

 

One thing my xMM said which I do respect him for is that after IC, he said he realises he has issues, admitted he is afraid to be alone, doesn't know what he wants etc etc... and said he needs to be alone with his pain and deal with all of this. He knows if he doesn't do it, it will come back and bite him in the future. This has nothing to do with me. I know NC is hard to do, and he's slipped many times, but all in all, he is facing his issues. Your guy needs to face reality, and deal with his own issues and it's up to you to stop him from messing you about.

 

All the best, BrightStar and hugs.

[Ellin]

StarBright, I am sorry you are in this situation. I haven't had time to read all responses, but I think your MM is very insecure and if there is any hope of it working out, he needs to stand on his own two feet and be independent. Sounds like he's afraid of pain, and wants a guarantee from you. He is full of fear and I think IC and time away from you will help you both.

.

 

These were my thoughts too. It appears that many MM indeed have very high levels of fear and maybe that's why they keep staying in bad M. I've noticed quite a few times different OW mentioning that their MM had a panic attack while trying to separate themselves from their home life.

[Silly_Girl]

SB - not had chance to read the great advice you've doubtless already had. But your OP worried me and I think his behaviour should not generate a requirement for you to fills gaps he clearly has.

 

I think he will benefit from you backing off. I think you will benefit from you backing off.

 

He could be having a huge wobble and want reassurance that despite the age difference, you believe he is the one for you; he could be looking for an out; he could be giving you a taste of the 'prize' you have to come.

 

I think you shouldn't act rashly because I believe this is a 'enough rope' situation and if you give him time and space you'll see more of what he's really made of. And that may be good, or it may be bad, but either way it'll serve you well. Have a hug (( ))

[Angel1111]

Like Jekyll and Hyde.

 

When you start describing a man like this in your head, you've got a big problem. The fact that he was raised in an abusive family doesn't surprise me at all. The thing is, you don't know if he's physically abusive or not. Most men who are verbally abusive gradually move to physical abuse. I'm guessing that he is physically abusive with his wife. I also believe he's using you to get at his wife even more. These guys LOVE to cheat - particularly when their significant other has had enough and either leaves or threatens to leave. This just drives them to be meaner and nastier.

 

What you describe about him being an angry bully says it all. My ex did this and I said to him once, "I hope you never turn your anger on me." This was before I knew that what you see is what your get and within two weeks of our marriage, I knew I had made a monumental mistake. I'm telling you what I wish someone had told me - do not EVER make excuses for people's habitual bad behavior; and abusive people do know exactly what they're doing. He is slowly wearing you down, breaking your heart and spirit and he'll win if you stay with him. One thing I learned when I was with my ex is that being with men like this is a lose-lose situation. The only way you can win is to leave. There are no gray areas, no in betweens. And I pray that you never, ever have this man's baby. Walk away while you still can with your soul and life still intact. And I'm not saying this stuff to sound dramatic. I'm dead serious.

[TigerCub]

He says I give off vibes that make guys hit on me. What?! When I go out with my sister she gets hit on ten times more than I do, and she likes it and I don't, I am shy, so I really don't know what he is talking about, I honestly don't. That's why I think he was just inventing stuff to get out of leaving.

 

This guy is trying to make you ashamed of being sexy, pretty and someone people want to talk to/flirt with.

 

I just find it interesting. When I go on dates and stuff, its funny cuz the guy I'm with would later comment on how many guys were looking at me or how I turn heads...etc...

but they say it in a proud kinda way - like "wow, this is the pretty girl I'm with". I've never had a guy say it in a resentful way.

 

Your MM needs to figure out if he wants to be your man or your father!

 

I can understand why he may wonder about the chances you might leave him later on. Let's face it, you're young and hot and he's 20 years older.

He's worried that after he leaves his family, causes all this tension, stress with W and kids, that you might leave him.

Also, considering the fact that you're the OW, maybe in his mind (somewhere, there's a little part of him) that thinks, well, if you screwed around with him when he was married, then maybe your morals aren't as great as they can be (I KNOW THAT THAT KIND OF VIEW IS COMPLETELY HYPOCRITICAL, but you never know), and couple that with his insecurities and his jealousy, I can really see why he's asking what he's asking (even though I don't agree with it)

 

Yes I think he needs to talk about it with his therapist. It is something he needs to work on if we are to ever have a chance, and I just don't know if I want a chance with him anymore. If this is who he is, I don't want him, and if he is just doing this to get out of being with me, I certainly don't want him. And if he is doing this because he's scared of getting hurt and taking the risk, I understand that but that is still not a good reason, he needs to find a better way to deal with it!

 

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. He could promise to "work on it", but you can't teach an old dog new tricks

I'm not saying its impossible for him to get past some issues, but he has to really recognize that there is a problem and that he needs to work on himself.

 

Maybe you guys can actually do couples counseling, because if the A causes you guys to have doubts about each other, then its probably not a bad idea to discuss them and see if you can reach a solution.

 

I know it doesn't seem like the most romantic way to start the R, but it probably would be the most useful way.

 

If he has certain views about you for being the OW, I'm curious, do you have any fears about being with him because he cheated on W. Would you be worried that he would one day cheat on you?

 

If you do, then maybe the couples counseling would be helpful.

 

If he doesn't change his jealous/controlling ways, I just don't see you being happy with him - and you're already thinking that too.

 

Good luck SB

[TinaniT]

Oh doll, be careful. I think there is some jealousy that might naturally pop up out of a MM/OW situation, especially with the age difference. My fiance and I have the large age difference too and he has discussed some insecurities there...but with this guy, it seems incredibly out of proportion and excessive. There are people who are like this and just know there is nothing you can give to validate them enough to fix it. Is he in IC?

[scatterd]

You need to move on this kind of man is the ones you watch for I was beat from two different marriages.Possiveness was in each of their personallitys

When a man would look at me I was beat for it.I spent 10 yrs of hell five with both.I had one child with both men the things you are saying about him sounds so much like the men I was with they are like vampires they suck you dry to satisfy their selfs they take your confidense degrade you and make you think no one else will want you.After you have been beat they cry and tell you how sorry they are and how much they love you.I know this sounds harsh but

I lived it and your MM sounds so close to how they were.After being through it so many times I was sick I did not know how to pick men I had to reprogram my thinking and stayed away from men like that I went for the total oppisite kind of guy and have not neen beat for 17 yrs.If you see something wrong run now is the tme to do that.I am not saying this to scare you I just hope you watch and listen.When I married they treated me good and then it came out little by little uhtill they showed their selfs.

[Angel1111]

You need to move on this kind of man is the ones you watch for I was beat from two different marriages.Possiveness was in each of their personallitys

When a man would look at me I was beat for it.I spent 10 yrs of hell five with both.I had one child with both men the things you are saying about him sounds so much like the men I was with they are like vampires they suck you dry to satisfy their selfs they take your confidense degrade you and make you think no one else will want you.After you have been beat they cry and tell you how sorry they are and how much they love you.I know this sounds harsh but

I lived it and your MM sounds so close to how they were.After being through it so many times I was sick I did not know how to pick men I had to reprogram my thinking and stayed away from men like that I went for the total oppisite kind of guy and have not neen beat for 17 yrs.If you see something wrong run now is the tme to do that.I am not saying this to scare you I just hope you watch and listen.When I married they treated me good and then it came out little by little uhtill they showed their selfs.

 

scatterd, I'm so sorry to hear about what you went through but I hope you're happy now. No one deserves to be treated that way. The things that you see in Star_Bright's guy are the same things I see - he has abusive tendencies and I would bet money that he is physically abusive with his wife. This thing about him leaving is no doubt designed to get back at his wife for something. These men are heartless. I'm so glad you got away from that situation.

[TigerCub]

WOW Scatterd.

I'm so sorry to hear that you were in such hell. I'm so glad for you that you survived and learned to "reprogram" yourself as you said it.

 

I can't imagine what that kind of life would be like.

**HUGS** to you.

 

I went for the total oppisite kind of guy and have not neen beat for 17 yrs.

 

I'm very glad to hear that

[Brokenlady]

Sb,

Ignore everything he says right now. I had this exact conversation with DM before he moved out and many times after. It's projection, all of it. He wants all kinds of guarantees before he leaves his security, yet you get none. Funny, isn't it? Don't let it get to you, he's just trying to make you take responsibility for his life. And he needs to be a big boy. If ge does leave, I promise you that this talk will be a continuing theme until he gets peaceful with his decision to leave. Ignore it, it has nothing to do with you.

[KarmasTestDummy]

TigerCub,

 

The bolded part is what I totally thought. Because when I met up with him his demeanor and tone were so totally different, and it sounded like a break up speech. Which honestly I was ready for, and in many ways it would just be a relief... I have tried to back off so many times yet he keeps coming back and begging me to be with him... so for him to tell me we are over, he can't do it, would be like, peace, one way or the other, which has started to be all I want. I was totally ready for it.

 

And then he started right off by saying "Now listen, I'm still moving out on Sunday..."

 

So right away I was confused. I started to think that whatever he was going to tell me, it was ACTUALLY about his second thoughts about moving out, or else why else would he start out that way???

 

He told me he had called his friend who is out of the country and asked to stay at his house and he said yes. He said he and his wife had agreed to sit down and talk to the kids on Sunday, after her out of town friend's visit was over, which is when she had asked him to stay through, and then he was going to move out.

 

Ok. And then he said BUT again and then he proceeded to, what I feel was, attack me. My character, the way I am, how I am nice to people, and how he thinks this means he can't trust me and I am not committed to him.

 

And it still sounded like a break-up speech, he would say things like "I don't know about being with someone who..." and then he would use stupid stupid excuses, like one night my friend's boyfriend's brother, when we went out, was kind of playfully hitting on me, like holding my hand as we walked down the street, skipping... I thought this guy was gay, he clearly looks, dresses and acts gay, so I was confused because you know how some gay guys are just fun and touchy-feely, but then he just wouldn't quit it, like wrapping his arms around my waist at the club, and I finally had to tell him to please stop being all over me. Then I asked my friend's brother and he said his brother was bi. So I guess he was kind of seriously hitting on me but it wasn't anything threatening, it was actually just annoying and obnoxious. (And he knows about MM and has hung out with him before... so I sitll dont' think he was seriously trying to get with me but he was just being drunk and dumb.) So I had stupidly told MM about this because MM had said that the guy was making googly eyes at me... and this was awhile ago but yesterday he was using this guy as an example of why he couldn't trust me and I'm not committed to him. What?! I understand if he wants me to be more assertive and yeah if we were legitimately dating it would be a lot easier for me to say "take your hands off me or my boyfriend is going to kiss your A..." or something like that. I see if he thinks I am too nice to people and don't stand up to myself, fine, but to use this guy as an example, like I would want to do something with this clown ANYWAY even if I weren't with MM?! It just seemed so fabricated and made me question myself when really all I did was stupidly be honest to MM about this annoying guy. That was just one example he used but all of them were lame, he had not one example of anything I had actually done against him, just guys who have shown interest in and I was too nice to give them the slap-down (but didn't do ANYTHING and didn't encourage them to do anything... I guess his issue is that I just didn't discourage them enough, or something.)

 

Anyway. I'm not sure if I'm making sense but it was just this feeling of being attacked when I had done nothing wrong. And his tone and look was just so disgusted. So I said okay, this is your way of breaking it off with me. Which made me so mad because I honestly understand if he wants to stay married... I DO... but I think it is so wrong of him to turn it around back on me and act like I'M the reason he's staying married... and then when I confront him about it he says, no, he does not want to break it off with me, he just wanted to give me ways to head guys off so they don't hit on me. Well then why was he being so cruel and saying he didn't know if he wanted to be with someone who has my personality? He says I give off vibes that make guys hit on me. What?! When I go out with my sister she gets hit on ten times more than I do, and she likes it and I don't, I am shy, so I really don't know what he is talking about, I honestly don't. That's why I think he was just inventing stuff to get out of leaving.

 

But now he insists he wasn't doing that and when I say I can't be with him because of his jealousy he swears he will change and says please stay with him. So was I just imagining that he was just doing it to not have to leave and not be the bad guy? Does he want to stay or leave? And at this point if he wants to leave then I really don't know if I can stay with him.

 

Yes I think he needs to talk about it with his therapist. It is something he needs to work on if we are to ever have a chance, and I just don't know if I want a chance with him anymore. If this is who he is, I don't want him, and if he is just doing this to get out of being with me, I certainly don't want him. And if he is doing this because he's scared of getting hurt and taking the risk, I understand that but that is still not a good reason, he needs to find a better way to deal with it!

 

I think honestly he was doing exactly what he said he was...sharing

With you his concerns. Clearly he had

Remebered every example of every guy who had hit on you. And imagine shoe turned if he told you about a woman in a bar who was all over him and he just kinda said ahh whatever...wouldn't probably matter to you if she was a clown, old, ugly, fat..whatever. It would have bothered you because you love him and you want him to respect YOU enough to make someone stop. And if he was telling you about it, would it feel a little like he was flaunting his sex appeal in your face to prove to you that he could have whoever he wants?

 

Is he a Scorpio zodiac sign? Almost sounds to the T like one. I know only because I am and jealousy is one of my things.

[Star_Bright]

Just a thought ...

 

Leaving to go to a "friends house" is probably a lot different to leaving to go to another woman as far as the wife is concerned ....

 

Leaving to a friends house can be classed as "taking a breather", "spending some time alone" ... all of which can be done without irrevocably breaking the marriage in the eyes of the wife ..

 

Wheras leaving to be with you would be much more of a "one way" decision .. ie he would be burning bridges with his w.

 

By being aggressive with you he maybe creating a scenario where he can then justify keeping you at a distance for a while, allowing him to play out the friends house scenario and keep the road to both you and his wife open.

 

So a case of making a lot of noise in one place so you don't go asking detailed questions where he doesn't want you looking .... put you on the defensive so you won't attack , if you like.

 

Also, agree with the others that projection looks pretty likely as well.

 

 

I've had this thought about him moving into his friend's house and I actually had a talk with him about it too. He says he needs to get out right away because the environment at home is toxic. So he will move into his friend's place temporarily and start looking for a place that has three bedrooms for his kids to come stay with him. I have no issue with that plan, I think it's a good one. We had discussed him coming to live with me at least temporarily but I just feel like he shouldn't go from their house to my house for his own sake, and also of course that wouldn't be a good situation for his children at all.

 

Now the problem is what he is telling his wife... she knows about us but she does think that he is just moving out to think things through and decide whether he wants to stay married or not. He said she's told him that if the marriage is going to work then I can['t have any part in their lives. Obviously that makes perfect sense and I agree. Ideally he would know he was getting divorced and actually file for divorce. But he is not there. He says he KNOWS he wants to get divorced but that doesn't happen overnight and he needs some time for his kids to get adjusted etc. I also know that he is more undecided than he lets on. He has even said that he needs to get out of the house so he can think without all of "her noise." So I know there's a big chance he would go back home. I know that but it's kind of like a catch 22 because I don't want him to do anything he's not sure about, and I think he needs to move out to be sure of it, you know? I guess I have been telling myself I will just wait and see what happens and know the risk that it won't work out. But at other times it does both me that he is undecided-even more undecided than he admits to me-and he is trying to keep his options open with both of us while he decides. I'm not sure if I can do that and I've told him that.

 

Thanks for your very insightful and helpful comments.

[Star_Bright]

Hi Star Bright.

 

He's insecure and feels that he might not be good enough to keep an attractive woman like you interested, once you live together full time.

 

Perhaps because he knows that living together is not as exciting as just seeing each other sometimes.

 

He obviously has confidence issues, which is pretty common, and now that he's going to move out of his comfort zone, this has got much worse than usual, which is something I can understand.

 

Despite that he might be completely harmless, just insecure. I just wonder what you mean by saying he treated you cruelly.

 

Hi Ellin.

 

This is why I question it over and over in my head... is he just expressing his insecurities like he tells me he is doing... or is he emotionally abusive and manipulative. I'm really not sure. But it's getting to the point where even though I can understand his insecurities, I can't live with them, you know?

 

By being cruel I mean it's like he turned into a different person. Usually he is so sweet and lovey dovey to me and treats me great. Well whenever he has one of his jealousy fits he turns into a little immature boy; he looks angry and he looks at me with disgust and almost hatred. He makes fun of what I'm wearing and tells me I am trying to attract attention from other guys and I want them to hit on me. This is when I was wearing a purple dress to go to out with my girl friend... it wasn' tsuper short or tight, it was actually a flowy dress, kind of like a summer dress but a bit fancier... and the next day he even told me that I looked beautiful and he was just jealous because he couldn't be out with me and he decided to take it out on me. I know him well and what happened was this. I walked through the door, happy to see him because we weren't supposed to be able to see each other that night-his friend was having a big birthday party with all the wives-and he looked at me like he thought I looked pretty. Then all of a sudden his face changed and he looked at me with disgust. He asked me if I had hooked up with anyone or given anyone my number or if I wanted to date anyone or hook up with anyone. At first I reassured him many times that I only want him, but it didn't matter, he kept getting mad at me, and I hadn't done anything. This was the first time this happened, not the latest time. He said guys were hitting on me because of what I was wearing and I said to leave my house, I was going to bed. I got really mad and annoyed. He followed me upstairs and kept saying the same things.

 

To me that is really cruel and I did nothing to deserve it. He agreed with me the next day when he apologized. So why did he do it?! Then he did it again, except I hadn't even been out, I wasn't wearing a dress, I had just been at work. Nothing had preceeded it, he said he had been thinking and I thought I was going to get a break-up talk or an "I can't move out" talk but instead he told me he can't trust me and I'm not committed enough to him and I invite and welcome guys to hit on me. Now I have been me for this whole time we have been having this affair. I have known him for over a year and I have been the same person the whole time. So why is he cutting me down like this right now, you know? He had that same look of disgust on his face and when I protested against what he would get mad and he would keep saying the same stuff. To me that is cruel, why was he doing it if not to try to make me feel like crap, you know?

 

So, yeah, I understand he has insecurities but I can't handle him acting like that about them. The next morning after he apologized I said there is a right way to talk to me about concerns he has. He shouldn't go from being all sweet and "I love you baby" to "I can't trust you and think you welcome attention from other guys and want to be with other guys" -- he should instead say, "I love you and I know you love me, but when you do X, I feel Y." And really listent to what I have to say in return. The problem is, his fears are irrational; whenever we talked normally the next day he agreed that I had done nothing wrong. But in the moment he really thinks that I am this horrible monster I guess.

[Star_Bright]

StarBright, I am sorry you are in this situation. I haven't had time to read all responses, but I think your MM is very insecure and if there is any hope of it working out, he needs to stand on his own two feet and be independent. Sounds like he's afraid of pain, and wants a guarantee from you. He is full of fear and I think IC and time away from you will help you both.

 

I also think this is not a good dynamic between the two of you, and could be indicative of what is to come. If it's disrupting your life that much, you probably need to step away and get a clear head.

 

I'm on day 11 of NC and despite separated man contacted me, I am MUCH clearer about what I want and don't want, and what I am willing to put up with. I think more distance will help you. He's mucking you around emotionally.

 

One thing my xMM said which I do respect him for is that after IC, he said he realises he has issues, admitted he is afraid to be alone, doesn't know what he wants etc etc... and said he needs to be alone with his pain and deal with all of this. He knows if he doesn't do it, it will come back and bite him in the future. This has nothing to do with me. I know NC is hard to do, and he's slipped many times, but all in all, he is facing his issues. Your guy needs to face reality, and deal with his own issues and it's up to you to stop him from messing you about.

 

All the best, BrightStar and hugs.

 

I agree. I think at this point we bring out the worst in each other. I can be very explosive when put on the defensive. My dad was very controlling and had a bad temper and he was always upset at me about something and I learned to just snap back at him to defend/protect myself. Interestingly I feel the same kind of dynamic with MM when he gets in that mood. Except that MM has this disdain for me when he gets like this and his demeanor is darker and more ominous than my father's. I don't want to get overly defensive but when MM is in that mood it's like all he does is attack! I also am too sensitive (working on it but always have been) and MM knows this and is usually really good about telling me things in a way that helps me instead of hurts me. But when he gets upset and jealous he knows how to push my buttons and it's like he purposefully insults me instead of trying to communicate in a constructive manner.

 

I would like to go NC and be strong like you. Really I think it would give me rest and peace. But I cave when he comes crawling back. It's sick, it's like I go back for more! Except that I did tell him very clearly that this had to stop or I was done. I am really sure I won't take it happening another time but I question why I even stayed after twice of this... I guess because I try to be understanding and realize he's going through a lot and has insecurities about us etc. But I am not going to focus on that if he does it again, I will be out, and he knows it.

 

Thanks Siuys.

[Star_Bright]

SB - not had chance to read the great advice you've doubtless already had. But your OP worried me and I think his behaviour should not generate a requirement for you to fills gaps he clearly has.

 

I think he will benefit from you backing off. I think you will benefit from you backing off.

 

He could be having a huge wobble and want reassurance that despite the age difference, you believe he is the one for you; he could be looking for an out; he could be giving you a taste of the 'prize' you have to come.

 

I think you shouldn't act rashly because I believe this is a 'enough rope' situation and if you give him time and space you'll see more of what he's really made of. And that may be good, or it may be bad, but either way it'll serve you well. Have a hug (( ))

 

Hi Silly Girl I'm trying to understand your advice. Back off (go NC?) but dont make a definite decision about the relationship right now?

[Star_Bright]

This guy is trying to make you ashamed of being sexy, pretty and someone people want to talk to/flirt with.

 

I just find it interesting. When I go on dates and stuff, its funny cuz the guy I'm with would later comment on how many guys were looking at me or how I turn heads...etc...

but they say it in a proud kinda way - like "wow, this is the pretty girl I'm with". I've never had a guy say it in a resentful way.

 

Your MM needs to figure out if he wants to be your man or your father!

 

I can understand why he may wonder about the chances you might leave him later on. Let's face it, you're young and hot and he's 20 years older.

He's worried that after he leaves his family, causes all this tension, stress with W and kids, that you might leave him.

Also, considering the fact that you're the OW, maybe in his mind (somewhere, there's a little part of him) that thinks, well, if you screwed around with him when he was married, then maybe your morals aren't as great as they can be (I KNOW THAT THAT KIND OF VIEW IS COMPLETELY HYPOCRITICAL, but you never know), and couple that with his insecurities and his jealousy, I can really see why he's asking what he's asking (even though I don't agree with it)

 

 

 

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. He could promise to "work on it", but you can't teach an old dog new tricks

I'm not saying its impossible for him to get past some issues, but he has to really recognize that there is a problem and that he needs to work on himself.

 

Maybe you guys can actually do couples counseling, because if the A causes you guys to have doubts about each other, then its probably not a bad idea to discuss them and see if you can reach a solution.

 

I know it doesn't seem like the most romantic way to start the R, but it probably would be the most useful way.

 

If he has certain views about you for being the OW, I'm curious, do you have any fears about being with him because he cheated on W. Would you be worried that he would one day cheat on you?

 

If you do, then maybe the couples counseling would be helpful.

 

If he doesn't change his jealous/controlling ways, I just don't see you being happy with him - and you're already thinking that too.

 

Good luck SB

 

I agree we will need couple's counseling. The whole thing is a mess. Yes he does act like my father sometimes. I guess in some ways I act like his daughter sometimes. It's not healthy. I want to stand on my own and I want him to stand on his own but he doesn't get that. Maybe it doesn't matter that he doesn't get it, maybe I just have to do it (NC) even though it hurts him and he doesn't understand. He has told me that if I want to take a break he is done for good. He can't just put his feelings for me on hold, he is very all or nothing and he is going to dedicate himself to being with me or he is going to dedicate himself to moving on and forgetting about me. So I just feel pressure to stay with him even when I really want a break. I guess I will just have to accept that by his own words if I go NC then we are over for good. I guess I am going to have to make that choice soon because it drives me crazy thinking should I stay or go.

 

What you say about going on dates is how it's been for me in the past. I had a long-term boyfriend who never got jealous if guys looked at me; he would be like, yeah you're with me, let them look. And vice versa. This is how I want it to be, not crazy jealousy and insecurities.

 

And I think MM overplays guys looking at me or hitting on me or whatever. I don't notice all of this stuff he notices; I don't know if he makes it up in his head or if it really happens and I'm just oblivious but I *know* it's not like he portrays it as me wanting attention and wanting guys to hit on me, that just isn't true. When I go out I just go out... even when single I know I will probably not find a decent guy at the neighborhood bar ha ha so I just go out to have a fun night with my friends or date or whatever... NOT to pay attention to who is looking at me or try to be asked out. One time MM said he noticed I kept looking at these two guys at a different table... ummm I seriously hadn't even noticed them until he said that. Their backs were turned to us and from what I could see of them they weren't even cute. So I have no idea why he thought I was looking at them... I swear sometimes he just pulls this stuff out of thin air.

 

About my trust issues with him... yes, I do worry he will cheat and have told him that. We both have a lot of trust issues to deal with but I try not to let them interfere with our everyday life. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. When I told him that the other day after our fight he said he likes that attitude and will try to just trust me instead of letting himself be driven wild with fears and doubts. I do think he is trying, for what it's worth.

[Star_Bright]

I think honestly he was doing exactly what he said he was...sharing

With you his concerns. Clearly he had

Remebered every example of every guy who had hit on you. And imagine shoe turned if he told you about a woman in a bar who was all over him and he just kinda said ahh whatever...wouldn't probably matter to you if she was a clown, old, ugly, fat..whatever. It would have bothered you because you love him and you want him to respect YOU enough to make someone stop. And if he was telling you about it, would it feel a little like he was flaunting his sex appeal in your face to prove to you that he could have whoever he wants?

 

Is he a Scorpio zodiac sign? Almost sounds to the T like one. I know only because I am and jealousy is one of my things.

 

No, it would not bother me. I am not a jealou person. I know he is sexy and I know women hit on him and I have no problem with that. It's funny because he DOES tell me when women hit on him, almost like it's some kind of tit for tat game, but it doesn't bother me at all, I know it happens. I am not like him in that way. It would obviously bother me if he returned their advances... and at this point I am confident that he doesn't and wouldn't. I do worry about what would happen down the line when things get complacent. So for me it isn't about what the women do, it's about whether he does anything.

 

I am definitely not flaunting my sex appeal in his face. I am just bien gme. When he is being rational he admits that this is the case and that it is just irrational insecurities.

 

No he's not a Scorpio, I just looked up what he is (I don't know much about signs) and he's a Taurus. Jealousy must be one of their traits too.

 

Ohhhh... and FWIW he says he is not always like this, it's just because of the circumstance and he will work on it. I asked him if he is like this with his wife and he said at first he did have some insecurities but over time they went away and so he is confident that he can get rid of them.

[Star_Bright]

Scatterd and Angel:

 

I just want to thank you again for sharing your experiences with me. I am sorry you went through that. It's confusing for me because the responses here range from "it's normal, ignore it" to "he needs to work on his jealousy" to "he's being emotionally abusive" so I get confused. But then I re-read your posts because I would rather err on the side of not getting involved with someone who is showing the signs that you both say your guys showed and you ended up with such horrible experiences.

 

I'm trying to trust my gut, but it's all over the place. USUALLY I do not think he is being abusive at all; usually he is the most loving, sweet, romantic guys I've ever been with, to the point of bordering on clingy. (Now I don't consider it clingy because I love him and want him around but I think that other people would consider it clingy.) BUT when he has had these two jealousy fits, he is not that person, he is someone else. There is something about it I can't even describe, and I feel that you guys know what I'm talking about. THAT is the part that I do not want to put up with no matter what. If it comes out again I am walking. Thank you to both of you for getting me to listen to that gut feeling about the way he is acting; something screams to me that it can't be good!

[Angel1111]

I was thinking "verbal abuse." This lashing out at me and being cruel has happened a few times in our relationship... and twice recently regarding his jealousy towards other men. And it really took me down, made me feel so crappy about myself, made me so emotionally upset, but even in my upsetness I was thinking, I am not a bad person, I shouldn't let him make me feel this way. It's like he was purposefully trying to hurt me (although I really don't think he is.. it's like something he can't control and just does???) and it cuts me to the core. It results in me telling him to go away and leave me alone, or leaving wherever we are. He does leave me alone but he quickly tries to find a way back in and is very nice and apologetic and I'm like, ummm what just happened to the YOU were showing me a little while ago? Now you're back to the old lovey dovey kissy cuddly you. Like Jekyll and Hyde.

 

And this morning when I woke up I thought, it's like after a guy hits a woman and she is upset and he doesn't care, he just keeps inflicting pain, but then after he's had time to think, he comes back all apologetic and begs for another chance. Even though he's not physically abusing me, it does feel like a form of abuse.

 

And sadly he was raised with (physical) abuse and I had often wondered how he could have lived through that and not exhibited those actions himself. Well maybe he does but it's emotional instead of physical. He can be a really aggressive hot tempered bully, and I had seen him be like that to other people but blamed it on work and his profession is one in which aggression is revered... so I had never seen him use it on me until recently. I guess we did have some big blow-ups when his wife first found out and I went away and he didn't want me to come back to work. I did feel like this then but the whole thing was so explosive I didn't realize what was going on, I thought we were both just in a volatile state. Now when things are supposedly good and he is supposedly leaving and he acts like this over jealousy, I see that it could very well be emotional/verbal abuse. :(

 

I am honestly stunned at how many people are downplaying this guy's behavior, particularly based on what you wrote above, Star. Let me say, for the record, that I wasn't physically abused. I was with a verbally abusive guy who bordered on physical abuse. I left him before that happened. On a few occasions when he wouldn't stop yelling at me, I would try to leave just to end the conversation and he'd block me and wouldn't let me leave. Another time, he threatened to kill my cat and put him in the freezer. This was a man on the edge of doing something physical. I know these men extremely well because the relationship had me in so much turmoil that I didn't know which end was up half the time. So I searched extensively for answers. Nowdays, I can spot these guys from 100 miles away. I have a zero tolerance for them.

 

The thing that scares me the most with you is that you're already in an abusive relationship and you don't even know it. You suspect it, but you're not sure. Read again what you wrote above. That is not love. That is not how a stable, normal guy would ever make you feel. That is abuse, plain and simple. And what you're doing right now - questioning yourself, rationalizing, making excuses, taking him back when he puts on a good act - is exactly and precisely how women get sucked into abusive relationships.

 

I strongly recommend that you get the book by Lundy Bancroft entitled 'Why Does He Do That? (Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men)". It's the most excellent book I've ever read about abuse. It is written by a man who has handled literally thousands of abusers. He knows and has seen every trick in the book. He explains how their minds work and what motivates them. More importantly, if you see your MM in this book, then you'll know for sure, for yourself, what you're up against; and what to do about it.

[lilbunny]

These were my thoughts too. It appears that many MM indeed have very high levels of fear and maybe that's why they keep staying in bad M. I've noticed quite a few times different OW mentioning that their MM had a panic attack while trying to separate themselves from their home life.

 

Yes I've been through that one, it was like absolute terror just set in. I sent him home, it told me he 100% was not ready. I also told him he needed to live on his own for at least 6 months before I would even think about living together, note he is still at home and we are currently NC.

 

The idea of functioning on his own seems to scare him even more than running straight to someone else.

[Star_Bright]

I am honestly stunned at how many people are downplaying this guy's behavior, particularly based on what you wrote above, Star. Let me say, for the record, that I wasn't physically abused. I was with a verbally abusive guy who bordered on physical abuse. I left him before that happened. On a few occasions when he wouldn't stop yelling at me, I would try to leave just to end the conversation and he'd block me and wouldn't let me leave. Another time, he threatened to kill my cat and put him in the freezer. This was a man on the edge of doing something physical. I know these men extremely well because the relationship had me in so much turmoil that I didn't know which end was up half the time. So I searched extensively for answers. Nowdays, I can spot these guys from 100 miles away. I have a zero tolerance for them.

 

The thing that scares me the most with you is that you're already in an abusive relationship and you don't even know it. You suspect it, but you're not sure. Read again what you wrote above. That is not love. That is not how a stable, normal guy would ever make you feel. That is abuse, plain and simple. And what you're doing right now - questioning yourself, rationalizing, making excuses, taking him back when he puts on a good act - is exactly and precisely how women get sucked into abusive relationships.

 

 

I strongly recommend that you get the book by Lundy Bancroft entitled 'Why Does He Do That? (Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men)". It's the most excellent book I've ever read about abuse. It is written by a man who has handled literally thousands of abusers. He knows and has seen every trick in the book. He explains how their minds work and what motivates them. More importantly, if you see your MM in this book, then you'll know for sure, for yourself, what you're

up against; and what to do about it.

 

Angel,

 

Thanks so much for the book suggestion. I'm going to read it. I'm glad you got out of that relationship!

[Star_Bright]

Yes I've been through that one, it was like absolute terror just set in. I sent him home, it told me he 100% was not ready. I also told him he needed to live on his own for at least 6 months before I would even think about living together, note he is still at home and we are currently NC.

 

The idea of functioning on his own seems to scare him even more than running straight to someone else.

 

Yep, my MM would do that too, I'm certain. I've told him before that I think he needs to be on his own for awhile before we work out and he said he doesn't want to be alone and would stay married if that were the case (although he claims his marriage is dead and horrible.)

 

Lilbunny do you think the panic attack phase is one they just have to go through because it's such a huge change, and when your MM went through that and then had time to adjust, it would have worked out okay?

 

I talked again with MM last night and it seems to me that he is saying that he's decided he wants to get divorced but he knows it's going to be a hard and emotional process. If I'm there to see him through, he can do it, but if it's too hard for me and I leave, even for a temporary break,he won't be able to do it and will go back home or write me off and start to date others and look for a new relationship. Because he can't be alone!