He questions MY "commitment" ?!?

[fooled once]

You are a guy, right? Sorry if I have you confused with someone else. If so then I wanted to ask you if most men are afraid to be alone? Because MM is definitely that way. At least he admits it straight out ha ha, but I always thought it was strange when he would tell me he would rather be in his self-described hopeless marriage than be alone. His first choice he says is to be with me but as you just said, he is so afraid of not having me that he is sabotaging us!

 

I've had this thought about him moving into his friend's house and I actually had a talk with him about it too. He says he needs to get out right away because the environment at home is toxic. So he will move into his friend's place temporarily and start looking for a place that has three bedrooms for his kids to come stay with him. I have no issue with that plan, I think it's a good one. We had discussed him coming to live with me at least temporarily but I just feel like he shouldn't go from their house to my house for his own sake, and also of course that wouldn't be a good situation for his children at all.

 

Now the problem is what he is telling his wife... she knows about us but she does think that he is just moving out to think things through and decide whether he wants to stay married or not. He said she's told him that if the marriage is going to work then I can['t have any part in their lives. Obviously that makes perfect sense and I agree. Ideally he would know he was getting divorced and actually file for divorce. But he is not there. He says he KNOWS he wants to get divorced but that doesn't happen overnight and he needs some time for his kids to get adjusted etc. I also know that he is more undecided than he lets on. He has even said that he needs to get out of the house so he can think without all of "her noise." So I know there's a big chance he would go back home. I know that but it's kind of like a catch 22 because I don't want him to do anything he's not sure about, and I think he needs to move out to be sure of it, you know? I guess I have been telling myself I will just wait and see what happens and know the risk that it won't work out. But at other times it does both me that he is undecided-even more undecided than he admits to me-and he is trying to keep his options open with both of us while he decides. I'm not sure if I can do that and I've told him that.

 

Thanks for your very insightful and helpful comments.

 

Again, just starting to go through this thread, but how old are his kids?

 

And his wanting to go from the marital home to living with you is ludicrious. Is he THAT pathetic and unable to be on his own? Does he NOT see what that will do to his kids? Does he want his kids to know that he was cheating on their mother with you? Doing this, moving from there to with you, will pretty much ensure those kids will blame you and hate you. He cannot go from one home to another and think this big happy family scenario will take place. His kids need TIME to adjust. Is he that selfish? Man, I am just blown away by his inability to think of ANYONE other than himself and HIS needs.

 

And are you 100% sure the wife knows about you? Or is this just what HE is telling you? Has she tried to contact you? And if she knows, his kids know.

 

So he knows he wants to be with you as long as you are committed to always and forever being with him, no matter how he acts or treats you and yet he wants HER to file for divorce because that way he can be the good guy. That doesn't jive with her knowing about you. Because if she knows about you, then that means he has told her he wants to be with you and that he wants a divorce. Something, as usual with cheaters, isn't adding up.

 

But, he is also blaming you for your lack of commitment. Hold a mirror up to his face the next time he tries that. He is the one who isn't manning up and being HONEST with his wife and he is the one who isn't showing YOU his commitment to you by getting a divorce.

[Angel1111]

Yes he is very honest with me, but is that enough??? I'm not sure.

 

What you really mean is that he appears to be honest with you. But I can assure you that he isn't. He's feeding you just enough information to make you feel like you're his trusted friend. How much do you want to bet that he did the same with his wives?

 

As fooled once pointed out, your age difference is a big key here. He knows how to manipulate you way better than you'd ever guess. This guy is trouble in every sense of the word.

[Angel1111]

And his wanting to go from the marital home to living with you is ludicrious. Is he THAT pathetic and unable to be on his own? Does he NOT see what that will do to his kids?

 

Actually, I think it's a possibility that his wife is the one instigating the separation because she's had enough of the verbal abuse and cheating. If that's the case, that would explain his wishy-washy behavior -- he's hoping to convince his wife to reconcile their marriage. Then he can tell Star that he has decided not to move out.

 

This is exactly the problem with screwing around with married people - aside from the million other reasons - because you're constantly second-guessing them and their lives. It's a complete waste of time.

[fooled once]

Actually, I think it's a possibility that his wife is the one instigating the separation because she's had enough of the verbal abuse and cheating. If that's the case, that would explain his wishy-washy behavior -- he's hoping to convince his wife to reconcile their marriage. Then he can tell Star that he has decided not to move out.

 

This is exactly the problem with screwing around with married people - aside from the million other reasons - because you're constantly second-guessing them and their lives. It's a complete waste of time.

 

See, I didn't get it that it was the wife wanting the separation because she posted

 

...the closer he has come to his own deadline to move out. I do understand him thinking, what if I give up all of this (family unit, nice house, public perception, long marriage, etc.) just to lose her, what if she's not serious? ....and he needs to be sure his marriage is over for its own sake and

 

and

 

Before I went NC I was just waiting around on him to take action. I never pressured him, never asked him to leave, but HE would tell ME he wanted to be with me for real and loved me and wanted me, not his wife, ... and then his wife asked him if he still had feelings for me (she had found out about us awhile back and knew he was still seeing me because he was never ever home) and he denied it and that was it, I was out because I felt like that was a messed up thing for him to do to both me and her. We were both wanting the truth and a decision from him and he wasn't giving it to either of us.

 

and

 

And yes like your guy mine does NOT want to be alone, he has said his marriage is horrible and dead but he is only going to leave it if he can be with me.

 

and

 

He told me he had called his friend who is out of the country and asked to stay at his house and he said yes. He said he and his wife had agreed to sit down and talk to the kids on Sunday, after her out of town friend's visit was over, which is when she had asked him to stay through, and then he was going to move out.

 

and

 

He has told me that he has tried to make his wife hate him so that it will be easier on him and she will be the one to file.

 

That is where I got that he was saying he was leaving (not the wife kicking him out) and I put the quote in there ^ about him saying he is trying to make the wife file.

 

Yuck....not a good guy at all!

[Angel1111]

That is where I got that he was saying he was leaving (not the wife kicking him out) and I put the quote in there ^ about him saying he is trying to make the wife file.

 

I'm not saying you were wrong in anything you said, I was talking about what I think could be going on. You're going by what he says and I don't believe a word he says, so I question everything. Plus, I know the dynamics of relationships like this and it's a strong possibility that his wife is kicking his butt out. He's obviously leaving the door open to go either way and is apparently trying to prepare Star for that, so it adds up. As a matter of fact, it adds up with everything he does.

 

Ahhh...true love.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Angel1111

[Star_Bright]

Well now I am doubting everything. I guess this really is the nature of an affair.

 

Fooled once, I am 30. His kids are 13 and 15.

 

She really knows as we all worked together- he owns the business; everyone else in the office knows too. :-/

 

He has said that she wants him out because he's been rubbing the A in her face. With me every night and she has found phone bills and seen texts etc. He said she is talking to a divorce lawyer next week and if he leaves she will file but he can't stay as long as he is still talking to me and seeing me.

 

I went away for a month after she found out, and I know he was trying to smooth things over with her during that time. Then by his own words she has said she knows he's still physical with me and asked him if he still has feel for me etc. But of course I'm not there and I don't know what he's actually been telling her. By what he says, she is sick of this and wants him out if he's not going to stop carrying on with me. So I guess that's why he keeps questioning my commitment level.

[Star_Bright]

Yes she is forcing him to make a choice and you are forcing him to make a choice. It's sad when it comes to all this. He's trying to figure out the softest place to land

 

Yes, exactly. This is what I've been feeling for awhile now.

[Star_Bright]

I can't do this, it's driving me crazy. He was weird and distant last night and today, just called me and sounded like a different person. I told him I don't want to go through with it. On top of questioning everything he says and does (I didn't tell him this part) I feel very guilty about his kids. I know I have already helped hurt them enough but I don't know if I could live with the guilt of helping him walk out on them. He was riding his bike and said he will come by to discuss. He sounded relieved. I just want this all to be over.

[Angel1111]

I can't do this, it's driving me crazy. He was weird and distant last night and today, just called me and sounded like a different person. I told him I don't want to go through with it. On top of questioning everything he says and does (I didn't tell him this part) I feel very guilty about his kids. I know I have already helped hurt them enough but I don't know if I could live with the guilt of helping him walk out on them. He was riding his bike and said he will come by to discuss. He sounded relieved. I just want this all to be over.

 

That's good to hear. I think you're doing the right thing but be prepared for more games from him. Good luck.

[Star_Bright]

That's good to hear. I think you're doing the right thing but be prepared for more games from him. Good luck.

 

Thanks. I get mad at him but I guess I've been doing the wrong thing (for everyone including myself) for so long now and I just want to start doing things right. :-/ Thank you for all your help.

[Angel1111]

Thanks. I get mad at him but I guess I've been doing the wrong thing (for everyone including myself) for so long now and I just want to start doing things right. :-/ Thank you for all your help.

 

I know this feeling. I said the same thing to my xMM about how great it feels not to be living a lie and doing things that would hurt other people. I never made peace with that. It had to stop. I'm so much happier just being out of it.

[Star_Bright]

I know this feeling. I said the same thing to my xMM about how great it feels not to be living a lie and doing things that would hurt other people. I never made peace with that. It had to stop. I'm so much happier just being out of it.

 

He said he is moving out today either way, with or without me. He said he wants me to be there with him but he knows he needs to do this anyway. I feel like I have gone too far and already helped caused too much destruction. Although I have tried to step out of the way several times and each time he comes and tells me his marriage is over and he wants to be with me.

[jennie-jennie]

He said he is moving out today either way, with or without me. He said he wants me to be there with him but he knows he needs to do this anyway. I feel like I have gone too far and already helped caused too much destruction. Although I have tried to step out of the way several times and each time he comes and tells me his marriage is over and he wants to be with me.

 

I have hesitated to respond to this thread because I feel there is so much going on with your MM and in your relationship and also I have not read all the posts. But now I can't hold my tongue any longer. So this response is not taking into account your MM's eventual issues with jealousy and such, but is more a response about responsibility and commitment.

 

I feel like you are mixing up yourself and your responsibility with your MM and his responsibilities.

 

He is the one who is married. He is the one being unfaithful. He is the one planning to divorce his wife. He is the one having kids.

 

Do you love him? Are you committed to him? What kind of relationship would you have wanted with him if he had been single all along?

 

From reading your threads on LS I am not surprised that he is questioning your commitment. I would have too.

 

It might be because having an affair goes against your morals. In that case you have to sit down and think about the consequences of this.

 

You obviously love a man who is married.

You are in a relationship with him.

You are going against your morals.

You need to decide which is of the greater importance to you: your love for him or following your morals. You can't have both.

 

He is an adult man. He has to take responsibility for his life. If he wants to divorce his wife, that is up to him, not you. He will be a father for his children whether married to her or not.

 

Stop being so wishy-washy. Decide what you want (morals or love) and go for it.

[Angel1111]

He said he is moving out today either way, with or without me. He said he wants me to be there with him but he knows he needs to do this anyway. I feel like I have gone too far and already helped caused too much destruction. Although I have tried to step out of the way several times and each time he comes and tells me his marriage is over and he wants to be with me.

 

...and yet you continue to forget the moments when he has lashed out at you over and over again. You're making such a mistake with this man. I don't know how many different ways to say that to you. He's verbally abusive. There's no excuse for that. He will make your life a living hell. But I think you're going to have to figure that out the hard way. Good luck.

[Brokenlady]

Well now I am doubting everything. I guess this really is the nature of an affair.

 

Fooled once, I am 30. His kids are 13 and 15.

 

She really knows as we all worked together- he owns the business; everyone else in the office knows too. :-/

 

He has said that she wants him out because he's been rubbing the A in her face. With me every night and she has found phone bills and seen texts etc. He said she is talking to a divorce lawyer next week and if he leaves she will file but he can't stay as long as he is still talking to me and seeing me.

 

I went away for a month after she found out, and I know he was trying to smooth things over with her during that time. Then by his own words she has said she knows he's still physical with me and asked him if he still has feel for me etc. But of course I'm not there and I don't know what he's actually been telling her. By what he says, she is sick of this and wants him out if he's not going to stop carrying on with me. So I guess that's why he keeps questioning my commitment level.

 

My heart breaks for his W. She went thru everything you're going thru now, and after all that and 20 years, he turns around and shoves it all right up her butt by cheating on her, gaslighting, and now apparently talkling about leaving for another OW. She wasted her life on this idiot. You want to be her in 5 years when he inevitably cheats on you with a younger model?? He has a lifelong pattern here. He isn't changing, EVER.

[Brokenlady]

I have hesitated to respond to this thread because I feel there is so much going on with your MM and in your relationship and also I have not read all the posts. But now I can't hold my tongue any longer. So this response is not taking into account your MM's eventual issues with jealousy and such, but is more a response about responsibility and commitment.

 

I feel like you are mixing up yourself and your responsibility with your MM and his responsibilities.

 

He is the one who is married. He is the one being unfaithful. He is the one planning to divorce his wife. He is the one having kids.

 

Do you love him? Are you committed to him? What kind of relationship would you have wanted with him if he had been single all along?

 

From reading your threads on LS I am not surprised that he is questioning your commitment. I would have too.

 

It might be because having an affair goes against your morals. In that case you have to sit down and think about the consequences of this.

 

You obviously love a man who is married.

You are in a relationship with him.

You are going against your morals.

You need to decide which is of the greater importance to you: your love for him or following your morals. You can't have both.

 

He is an adult man. He has to take responsibility for his life. If he wants to divorce his wife, that is up to him, not you. He will be a father for his children whether married to her or not.

 

Stop being so wishy-washy. Decide what you want (morals or love) and go for it.

 

JJ, you know I love you, but you missed the mark here, probably for lack of reading all the posts. She SHOULD be concerned about him, and uncertain, he's giving her about a million red flags.

[jennie-jennie]

JJ, you know I love you, but you missed the mark here, probably for lack of reading all the posts. She SHOULD be concerned about him, and uncertain, he's giving her about a million red flags.

 

You are right. I forgot about the serial cheating for one. But I still feel that if Star-Bright is in any way planning to stay with her MM, she does need to look at her own issues with morals, responsibility and commitment. They are getting hidden behind her MM's issues.

[jj33]

Great post Jennie. You have to look at your own reaction to the relationsihp you are in. If you arent comfortable with it, you arent. You dont HAVE to be. But you have to be honest with yourself and say I am OK with this and I am going to continue or I am not.

 

The guy still sounds a little flaky but I totally agree with your points.

[Star_Bright]

You are right. I forgot about the serial cheating for one. But I still feel that if Star-Bright is in any way planning to stay with her MM, she does need to look at her own issues with morals, responsibility and commitment. They are getting hidden behind her MM's issues.

 

Thank you for the advice Jennie. I guess I AM being wishy-washy. When everything was a bed of roses with MM, it bothered me that we were in an affair but I thought, we love each other ad he wants to get divorced and be with me. It isn't ideal but it happens. Well now that he has shown me anther side of himself, or maybe the real side of himself, it causes me to question everything and think, well, what did I think I was getting by being involved with a MM who can cheat on his wife and leave his family? Everything gets so murky and I start to see how my own actions played a part in this.

 

He thinks I am only saying don't do it because I am afraid of getting hurt. Of his going back home or moving on to someone new. He is right about that but I also feel real guilt and sadness when I think of him talking to his kids about moving out, which he is supposedly doing right now. It makes me wish I never would have embarked down this path. But I did and here I am.

 

You're right that I need to choose love or morals. And I really need to figure him out. He has always been very loving to me except with these fits of jealousy (well and a couple of times awhile back when his wife found out and I wanted to keep working there but he didn't want me ti). I guess when he feels threatened, he gets angry, which I can understand. But if he does that again I am leaving for sure. I guess in the meantime I will just watch how he acts. I did/do love him more than anyone else ever, but it is hard to measure that against my rationality, when he has one of those fits. To me that is the big problem here and then my morals/conscience.

[jj33]

You are being very smart Star. His anger issues may be a red flag. Something you havent seen before. And you dont want to sign up for a lifetime of emotional abuse no matter how much you love him. THats not a morals issue or a love him issue, its a love yourself issue and dont put yourself in a masochistic situation.

[jennie-jennie]

You are being very smart Star. His anger issues may be a red flag. Something you havent seen before. And you dont want to sign up for a lifetime of emotional abuse no matter how much you love him. THats not a morals issue or a love him issue, its a love yourself issue and dont put yourself in a masochistic situation.

 

Yes, that is what makes this situation extra complicated.

 

But it does not make it right, Star-Bright, that you push him back into the marriage because you feel guilty about the kids. You should extract yourself from the affair not him if you feel that guilty. You are giving him double messages.

 

You have no obligation to commit to anything other than what you want to. If he wants to leave his marriage because he loves you, that is up to him. You need only to figure out you. Where do you stand?

 

Perhaps you are willing to stay a while in the relationship after (if) he moves out to figure out what he is about. Perhaps not. If you are, then I would think you need time before you can really commit because of the red flags you have mentioned.

 

One can commit to figuring out whether one wants a relationship or not.

 

Sometimes I do feel like the MM want us to commit prematurely because they wouldn't be leaving their wives if it was not for us. Then we have to be up front and tell them how we feel. We have never dated them when they were single. Perhaps we will find out things that make us not want to continue the relationship once the MM are single. There are no guarantees for any relationship. We can only tell the MM how we feel and how committed we are right now. Not what will be in the future.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Star, so today was the day...did he leave? I hope you have worked out your concerns. I personally think he deserves a chance to show you who he is without all the stresses of having to make these choices and believe he is doing it for someone that isn't going to leave him. We discussed the similarities in our men and their desire to make sure the gap is secure. I think once he feels secure in his choice u will see a large bit of his irrationality disappear.

[Star_Bright]

Star, so today was the day...did he leave? I hope you have worked out your concerns. I personally think he deserves a chance to show you who he is without all the stresses of having to make these choices and believe he is doing it for someone that isn't going to leave him. We discussed the similarities in our men and their desire to make sure the gap is secure. I think once he feels secure in his choice u will see a large bit of his irrationality disappear.

 

Yes, he did leave. We spent a the night together which was nice. I think I have so many fears and doubts, some maybe rational, some not. It makes it hard to show him I'm a secure choice when really I'm full of my own insecurities about us. But he thanked me for being there for him. He has IC this morning so that should help. Thanks for your message; it does help to hear some encouragement while keeping in mind the concerns. I'm kind of all over the place right now and I thin he is too... Even though he says I worry enough for the both of us!

[KarmasTestDummy]

Yes, he did leave. We spent a the night together which was nice. I think I have so many fears and doubts, some maybe rational, some not. It makes it hard to show him I'm a secure choice when really I'm full of my own insecurities about us. But he thanked me for being there for him. He has IC this morning so that should help. Thanks for your message; it does help to hear some encouragement while keeping in mind the concerns. I'm kind of all over the place right now and I thin he is too... Even though he says I worry enough for the both of us!

 

I'm glad he did as he said. I'm glad you got to spend time with him and talk to him. Being alone last night probably would have been really hard. He's going to IC, that's wonderful. Both our men are broken to a degree but I think both of us are capable of seeing the good in them and their value. It's not ALWAYS rise colored glasses.

[Star_Bright]

I'm glad he did as he said. I'm glad you got to spend time with him and talk to him. Being alone last night probably would have been really hard. He's going to IC, that's wonderful. Both our men are broken to a degree but I think both of us are capable of seeing the good in them and their value. It's not ALWAYS rise colored glasses.

 

It's like, I don't want to be naive, but I also don't want to be overly cynical. I think I start to get paranoid reading all the stories on LS and even some of the replies in my thread. Like, I was going back and re-reading, and someone said he's foolish to plan to move in with me right away, AFTER I had said he plans to get his own three-bedroom place for him and his kids (NOT move in with me). And then people keep asking me his kids' age and how long he's been married... I understand that not everyone has time to read my whole story but I also think that sometimes people give cookie cutter advice without really listening to everything. This is NOT a slight on anyone who posts to me; I appreciate everyone's comments, but I just get so inundated thinking the worst that I have to step back and look at the situation for what ***I*** really think it is.

 

Yes, MM could be lying his butt off to me, but I have never once caught him in a lie. He has been honest even when it's harmful to his own interest in seeing me. And I have been on my toes to verify the truth as much ads I can. I KNOW there are things he keeps from me-- like, I'm sure he often thinks of staying married and if he told me every time he thinks this, I would get tired of it and say then stay married! So instead I wonder how often he thinks of it and what's really going on in his head... so I worry anyway. This situation is full of a lot of angst for me and I'm trying to determine whether its' worth it. I figure it can't hurt to see what happens now that he's moved out. At least I'll know I gave it a shot.