He questions MY "commitment" ?!?

[carhill]

Because he can't be alone!

 

Therein lies the unhealthiness and the methodology for his forever being an unequal partner.

 

Regardless of his status, is this the kind of human you want to spend the rest of your life with? I mean, really?

 

I read the thread and it parallels much of my experience with MW's. Save yourself. You're young and have a long life ahead. Don't look back when you're my age and see all the wasted years.

 

Good luck

[Star_Bright]

Therein lies the unhealthiness and the methodology for his forever being an unequal partner.

 

Regardless of his status, is this the kind of human you want to spend the rest of your life with? I mean, really?

 

I read the thread and it parallels much of my experience with MW's. Save yourself. You're young and have a long life ahead. Don't look back when you're my age and see all the wasted years.

 

Good luck

 

Carhill,

 

At first I was flabbergasted by his admission that he hates to be alone. Then when I talked to him more about it he said it's normal. Humans are social creatures and crave relationships. He enjoys being in a relationship. When he put it like that, I had to agree that it wasn't that crazy.

 

I think what bothers me is that if it feels like it's not right for me-- too stressful, too emotional or guilt-ridden etc.--then he couldn't understand my need for a break because his needs of needing me there are more powerful. And I do feel a bit replaceable--like he needs me to help him leave his marriage but if I'm not there he'll find someone else.

[Brokenlady]

I talked again with MM last night and it seems to me that he is saying that he's decided he wants to get divorced but he knows it's going to be a hard and emotional process. If I'm there to see him through, he can do it, but if it's too hard for me and I leave, even for a temporary break,he won't be able to do it and will go back home or write me off and start to date others and look for a new relationship. Because he can't be alone!

 

Wow. Thanks emotional blackmail if I ever saw it. WTF?

[Brokenlady]

Carhill,

 

At first I was flabbergasted by his admission that he hates to be alone. Then when I talked to him more about it he said it's normal. Humans are social creatures and crave relationships. He enjoys being in a relationship. When he put it like that, I had to agree that it wasn't that crazy.

 

Well, at least he's hinest, but that last line is something like gaslighting - see honey, it's totally ok for me to act like a baby!

 

I think what bothers me is that if it feels like it's not right for me-- too stressful, too emotional or guilt-ridden etc.--then he couldn't understand my need for a break because his needs of needing me there are more powerful. And I do feel a bit replaceable--like he needs me to help him leave his marriage but if I'm not there he'll find someone else.

 

Yet YOU are supposed to be an endless well of understanding about how hard it is for him to leave his M, and watch him grieve missing his W and family with no room for any emotional reaction. Wow, selfish beyond words.

[carhill]

At first I was flabbergasted by his admission that he hates to be alone. Then when I talked to him more about it he said it's normal. Humans are social creatures and crave relationships. He enjoys being in a relationship. When he put it like that, I had to agree that it wasn't that crazy.

 

Think about this. Yes, we are social creatures. I lived alone for nearly 20 years before getting married. I understand that completely. 'Relationships' are not exclusively noodle wetting. They are friendships; they are parents; they are children; they are spouses. He could move out today, get himself his own house, and never be alone one minute of the day, perhaps except when he's sleeping. Truly, honestly, what he wants is validation of his ego and potency as a man. He can't get that from mom or dad or his dog or best male friend. It's selfish validation of the power of his testicles.

 

He's achieving this validation at the cost of your health. Is that fair? Is it right? I say not. That's not what healthy humans do to each other.

 

Since I've been separated, I've lived alone. I ended my EA, my poor judgment and choice, long before that separation happened. Our M had to make it on its own or fail on its own, with the attendant cost, that precisely and exactly meaning the risk of being totally alone. Why should an affair partner, or anyone, have to bear the burden of my fears?

 

I've been where your MM is. I've also been, many years ago, an OM and understand that perspective and how *some* people 'can't be alone'. Time and life experience has taught me that such people are, at best, incompatible and, at worst, broken. You'll have to decide your boundaries for yourself. In that decision I wish you wisdom.

[lilbunny]

Yep, my MM would do that too, I'm certain. I've told him before that I think he needs to be on his own for awhile before we work out and he said he doesn't want to be alone and would stay married if that were the case (although he claims his marriage is dead and horrible.)

 

Lilbunny do you think the panic attack phase is one they just have to go through because it's such a huge change, and when your MM went through that and then had time to adjust, it would have worked out okay?

 

I talked again with MM last night and it seems to me that he is saying that he's decided he wants to get divorced but he knows it's going to be a hard and emotional process. If I'm there to see him through, he can do it, but if it's too hard for me and I leave, even for a temporary break,he won't be able to do it and will go back home or write me off and start to date others and look for a new relationship. Because he can't be alone!

 

I'm not sure, anxiety and sometimes paranoia were issues he had previously and I think the odd attack for whatever reason would have still happened.

 

I'm not sure he was ever strong enough to go through with it, even if it was what he really wanted. I don't know if he would have made it through the experience without serious damage and because I love him I knew that I had to send him home. I think him living on his own for a while might have limited the fall out and was best for him.

 

The last part I have bolded would worry me a little hun. Be careful.

[Star_Bright]

I just talked to him again and all I know now is that talking to him just makes me feel more and more confused-- makes my head spin!

 

Now he says he needs me there in the beginning, when he first moves out, for support, but that later, HE might want to take a break. And by break he means we still talk to each other and see each other, but not as much, not as intense, so that he can clear his head. He said he might need this because maybe our relationship won't be the same once the barriers are removed. He said it might be even better, which is what he's hoping for, or it could be worse.

 

Wtf. I feel like everything is riding on me; if I'm not this perfect partner, he wants a break, but still wants me there as a back-up?????

[carhill]

Sounds like he's done this before. Very practiced. I'm imagining the disassociation which takes place to talk in such a calm and convincing manner about a life altering decision.

[siuys]

Gosh, sorry StarBright but he's using you as a crutch – "help make me strong by being there so I have an emotional security blanket, once I move out, I won't need you as much." If you can fight it, leave him alone now. Tell him you need to clear your head and be away. Tell him he needs to do this on his own, by himself, and be strong. You don't want a wimp... sorry.

[Angel1111]

Now he says he needs me there in the beginning, when he first moves out, for support, but that later, HE might want to take a break. And by break he means we still talk to each other and see each other, but not as much, not as intense, so that he can clear his head. He said he might need this because maybe our relationship won't be the same once the barriers are removed. He said it might be even better, which is what he's hoping for, or it could be worse.

 

Why you didn't end that conversation by breaking up with him and wishing him a nice life is beyond me.

[Brokenlady]

I just talked to him again and all I know now is that talking to him just makes me feel more and more confused-- makes my head spin!

 

Now he says he needs me there in the beginning, when he first moves out, for support, but that later, HE might want to take a break. And by break he means we still talk to each other and see each other, but not as much, not as intense, so that he can clear his head. He said he might need this because maybe our relationship won't be the same once the barriers are removed. He said it might be even better, which is what he's hoping for, or it could be worse.

 

Wtf. I feel like everything is riding on me; if I'm not this perfect partner, he wants a break, but still wants me there as a back-up?????

 

AGain, this is the same theme....HIS needs are th eonly ones that matter. You are supposed to be a servant to his needs and have none of your own. He says when you stay or when you go. It is all about him. Even if he does move out, he's telling you right up front that your needs don't count and he's not going to attend to them at all; that your job is to soothe him until he's healed enough to tell you to go away. Screw that!

[Star_Bright]

Well we talked again, and he said I am over-thinking everything (I do have a tendancy to do that) and that it's really simple: he loves me, he is moving out and will get divorced, and he wants to be with me.

 

When he says it like that, it does seem simple. All my issues with him started with his jealousy fits, and he hasn't been like that again since I told him I cannot go on if he's like that. He said now he's changed his attitude to thinking that if I am going to be with someone else, that's fine, he doesn't need me. I told I would like for his attitude to be that he knows I won't be with anyone else.

 

I guess all my second thoughts about him started earlier, when his wife asked him if he still had feelings for me and he denied it. That's when I went NC, and me going NC caused him to freak out that I was moving on without him. Argh.

 

Thank you, forum, for listening to me vent and sharing your advice with me. It really does help me.

[siuys]

StarBright, good luck. But do keep in mind that his jealousy stems from his insecurities. There is nothing you can do about that, he needs to work on it. You can re-assure him, but ultimately, he needs to work on that himself.

 

Play it day by day and re-assess the situation as you go because that is all you can do. There will be so many ups and downs still and a lot of uncertainties. Stay true to yourself, never lose yourself, and don't make him the centre of your life. All the best.

[Angel1111]

Denial and 're-writing history' are classic moves for these guys. He didn't say all those stupid, hurtful things - you just took them the wrong way (it's you, again), and he's had an overnight transformation.

 

Sit back and watch the show, Star, he isn't done screwing with your head yet. It's going to get better.

[siuys]

I agree with Angel. Most of the time they would like to think they get it, and are moving on bla bla but truth is, they are FAR from it. Be prepared, be smart, and be skeptical - for your own sanity.

[Star_Bright]

Sounds like he's done this before. Very practiced. I'm imagining the disassociation which takes place to talk in such a calm and convincing manner about a life altering decision.

 

Yes. I always wonder how he can talk so calmly about it. I think, either there are a lot of things he thinks/feels that he doesn't share with me about it, or he's been really checked out of the marriage for a long time and just waiting for someone to come along. (He said his therapist said he left her a long time ago, before he met me.)

 

He has done this before. He had an OW for 3 years on and off during his first marriage: he moved out twice for her but they didn't work out. He had other OWs during his first marriage. Then his current wife was his OW. He moved out for her but he told me he needed a break and he dated other women. Hmmmm. And just today he said one reason it took him a year and a half to get divorced from his first wife was because his current wife was pressuring him so much to marry her, and he couldn't get married to her if he was still married to his first wife. Hmmmmm. I guess I am no different, just one in a string of many women he hasn't treated all that great. Although he claims he had been faithful to his current wife for 19 years (before me).

[Star_Bright]

Thanks angel and siuys. I am thinking I need to end it because I see through him and I don't like what I see. the bad is really starting to outweigh the good. I know I deserve better.

[siuys]

Wow, StarBright. To say your guy has a bad history is an understatement. You are walking into a hurricane. You DEFINITELY deserve better. I can see the pain of going through with this will be more than the pain of breaking up. He REALLY needs to sort himself out ALONE!!! Sounds like he cannot be on his own it's too scary. I think ending it would be your best move by far...

[carhill]

He didn't say all those stupid, hurtful things - you just took them the wrong way (it's you, again), and he's had an overnight transformation.

Oh, yeah, pick me, pick me!

 

Famous line, heard from more than one MW:

 

"You must have misunderstood"

 

 

OP, imagine having another whole lifetime of these really unhealthy and hurtful experiences. That's where my advice is coming from. I've seen men cheat, cheated a bit myself and have been the receptacle for more than a few MW's. Trust me, it's not a place you want to be. Seriously. This guy is bad, bad news. Since his current wife was his past OW, there is precedent for the future. He's a serial cheater.

 

In another thread, a young (20 y/o) lady is balancing the spectre of her pregnancy from an older MM versus, well, college. Her whole life has changed. She comes from a 'good' family; her dad is an attorney. She's keeping the child and not naming the father. That's reality. Do you want that to be your reality, age-appropriate?

 

I hope you find your truth. Your threads on LS reflect that journey. Best wishes that it ends well.

[Angel1111]

Since he says that he didn't cheat in 19 yrs, I'm sure it's true. So on top of everything else, he's a serial cheater. That's great. Dang! If he could only find that one special woman who he could control and manipulate till death do they part. A guy just can't find a good woman these days.

 

The thing that you should remember with guys like this is that they never sort themselves out, and they have no intentions of doing so. They only say that to keep you hooked.

[jennie-jennie]

Since he says that he didn't cheat in 19 yrs, I'm sure it's true. So on top of everything else, he's a serial cheater. That's great. Dang! If he could only find that one special woman who he could control and manipulate till death do they part. A guy just can't find a good woman these days.

 

The thing that you should remember with guys like this is that they never sort themselves out, and they have no intentions of doing so. They only say that to keep you hooked.

 

Just wondering. A guy who marries his OW and then doesn't cheat on her for 20 years or so and then goes on to marry his next OW, is he really a serial cheater? Or is he a serial monogamist?

[Star_Bright]

Just wondering. A guy who marries his OW and then doesn't cheat on her for 20 years or so and then goes on to marry his next OW, is he really a serial cheater? Or is he a serial monogamist?

 

Ha ha Jennie- I told MM he's a serial monogamist awhile ago LOL.

 

But now I'm starting to think he's a serial cheater, b/c he DID cheat on his second wife, with me, even if it took him 20 years. And just now he confessed that his "break" with his wife after he separated from his first wife was full of deceit. She knew they were on a "break" so he could "clear his head" but not that he was dating other people- he lied about/ hid that from her. So in my book that is cheating. And he's told me about some "oops"'es during his marriage to his current wife that he doesn't qualify as cheating but I sure do. So as much as I wanted to think he was a serial monogamist, it seems he is really just a serial cheater. What makes me think I'm any different from his first and second wives and his long-term OW etc.?? Yes he is very honest with me, but is that enough??? I'm not sure.

[jennie-jennie]

Ha ha Jennie- I told MM he's a serial monogamist awhile ago LOL.

 

But now I'm starting to think he's a serial cheater, b/c he DID cheat on his second wife, with me, even if it took him 20 years. And just now he confessed that his "break" with his wife after he separated from his first wife was full of deceit. She knew they were on a "break" so he could "clear his head" but not that he was dating other people- he lied about/ hid that from her. So in my book that is cheating. And he's told me about some "oops"'es during his marriage to his current wife that he doesn't qualify as cheating but I sure do. So as much as I wanted to think he was a serial monogamist, it seems he is really just a serial cheater. What makes me think I'm any different from his first and second wives and his long-term OW etc.?? Yes he is very honest with me, but is that enough??? I'm not sure.

 

Hmm, okay, that does raise a red flag.

[fooled once]

You are a guy, right? Sorry if I have you confused with someone else. If so then I wanted to ask you if most men are afraid to be alone? Because MM is definitely that way. At least he admits it straight out ha ha, but I always thought it was strange when he would tell me he would rather be in his self-described hopeless marriage than be alone. His first choice he says is to be with me but as you just said, he is so afraid of not having me that he is sabotaging us!

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to comment...

 

Men aren't scared to be alone; at least none that I know.

 

My H was living alone when I met him, after divorcing his first wife.

 

My ex lived alone for a couple years after we divorced.

 

Honestly, it sounds like you are a 'young thing' that the MM wants on his arm, in his bed, giving him an ego boost. He sounds incredibly immature, controlling and like a jerk.

 

I see him not 'moving out' because the place he was planning on staying isn't going to be available (all of a sudden) and if he actually does move out, how long before he wants to move in with you? Before the divorce is final?

 

He is 24 years older than you. I know you say you don't see the age difference, but I kinda wonder how you can't see that much of a difference. That is an entire generation of difference. Can I ask how old you are? (sorry if this has been asked already). Seems to me, from my experience, it is the under 30 year olds who 'don't see the big deal' with age difference. If you have never had to actually care for someone, even someone you love, as they age, you really have no idea what it is all about. It isn't easy, it isn't fun and it isn't 'what love is all about". It is hard, it is emotionally taxing and it isn't fun at all.

 

I guess I find it hard to believe this man, 24 years older than you, is going to toss away his marriage of..how many years...for someone 24 years younger than him that he has been having an affair with for...how long have you two been involved in an affair?

 

And I do agree with you - he can't be your boyfriend. He is actually married and living with his wife. He can't really have a girlfriend while actively married, at least not in my view.

[Angel1111]

Just wondering. A guy who marries his OW and then doesn't cheat on her for 20 years or so and then goes on to marry his next OW, is he really a serial cheater? Or is he a serial monogamist?

 

Star said that he "has done this before. He had an OW for 3 years on and off during his first marriage" and that he "had other OWs during his first marriage" and "he told me he needed a break and he dated other women. I think it's safe to say that people who cheat in every relationship that they're in is a serial cheater. And I was being sarcastic about him being faithful for 19 yrs - I'm sure he's lying to Star about that. But, yea, he's probably a serial monogamist, too. I'm sure a person can be both.