24 hrs nc...not like him...fearing d-day

[donnamaybe]

I just read the whole thing. Karmastestdummy I know you trust and believe this man but this stuff just is not adding up even a little bit. These guys are good. They are charmers and melt your heart. They know what to say. You are an intelligent woman. Don't let him take you for a ride please.

 

Think about what he has told you about his wife.

 

She is a drug addict - ok would he really leave his kids home alone - a 2year old - all day with a drugie being driven around in a car.

 

He thinks she had an abortion. Sorry this is so over the top that I think you bought it. The doctors call is fabricated. There is no doubt.

 

She refuses to work - The woman has four small kids and he is telling you she refuses to work. Not buying it. It is so much easier to go off to work for the day with adults then care for four small kids. He likes her home. He's full of crap.

 

gets her nails done and her hair done - He is demonizing her because she likes to look nice. Miss drug addict makes sure her nails and hair look good. - He has an ego so didn't want to tell you his wife is fat and lazy so instead he demonizes her by making her materialistic all because she wants her hair and nails nice.

 

She let the $40,000. suv go into reposession with only a year left. - Ok the woman does not work. He brings in the income. He knows what he can afford to buy on his income. He bought the van she doesn't work. Ok so ummmm how did she do this? by having her hair and nails done. Gotta love these men. I guess he doesn't spend a cent on you because she must be in charge of all the money since SHE LET the car get repossessed.

 

He has to be assured of custody of kids - umm she's an out of work cheating druggie. How hard would that be?

 

He's waiting for her to get an inheritance?:laugh: These men really have a script. You do know when she finally gets it it will not be as much as she thought it would be and now she can not leave.

 

Please wake up. I get so sad when I hear married men doing this to women and women allowing it. Don't allow him to use you for marriage relief please. NO CONTACT make some new friends and enjoy your life. If he loves and misses you he WILL leave her and come get you. Trust that.

All of this. Yup.

 

This MM is SO worried that his awful, selfish, cheating drug abuser of a wife might find out about the A that he goes to great lengths to assuage her fears and smooth things over. Yup. She must be one very HORRIBLE woman.

[porter218]

BTW... when exactly did she pick up this drug habit? A year ago? Maybe 2 at most? She has a 2 yr old child:confused:. If she was breastfeeding then this drug problem is fairly recent....and even if she didn't breast feed this child it must be pretty recent. Perhaps an ungrateful cheating H made her turn to drugs.

Food for thought.

[TigerCub]

If you make his life easier for him, he will be much less motivated to part with those things holding him at home. Why? Because suddenly it doesn't hurt as bad...it's not as intolerable because he has you to pick him up. I fully believe being in an A, especially the position you've put yourself in, only delays the failing of a M (if it is to fail).

 

I'm a believer of this as well - at least when it came to my own involvement in an A. I knew that as long as I was giving him what he claimed was missing at home - his voids would be filled (it doesn't matter from where) - and then suddenly, life at home would seem a lot better.

 

I want him to experience what his life with baby momma really is like without me giving him what he's missing.

 

He's probably found some other girl for that now - that's fine, because its not my job to fix him.

[Mimolicious]

SMH-

 

This is absurd.

 

I can't believe how consumed you are into his W's 411. You guys have spent all that time discussing her? This is all third-party info you got, hone.

 

What makes you think is all truth. If she is in fact the person that he describes, I feel sorry for the kids. In reality, half of whatever may happen to his kids, he will be to blame for. He's not really doing anything about it if he keeps this cycle, yet he has time to get himself involved in an A and being on iPhone hook-up apps. This sounds a bit too bizarre. I wouldn't old high regards for a man that lives in such conditions. I'm not Mother Teresa. Sorry.

 

Good luck!

[Fieldsofgold]

I'm a believer of this as well - at least when it came to my own involvement in an A. I knew that as long as I was giving him what he claimed was missing at home - his voids would be filled (it doesn't matter from where) - and then suddenly, life at home would seem a lot better.

 

I want him to experience what his life with baby momma really is like without me giving him what he's missing.

 

He's probably found some other girl for that now - that's fine, because its not my job to fix him.

 

TC, you're a smart lady!

 

Just a couple of comments about the wife's drugs, and her not working . . . If she'd been doing drugs very long, her kids would have drug issues. It would be incredibly irresponsible of him, as a dad, to allow this woman to give birth to children exposed to drug use en utero, and even more irresponsible for him to let her take care of his babies if she's prone to drinking and using.

 

As for her not working - it is entirely possible that the cost of child care might exceed any income she could earn. As far as letting the relative babysit - first of all, I would not expect my middle-aged relative to take care of FOUR small children on a regular basis. That would be a lot to put on anyone. I took care of ONE while my daughter finished college, and that about ran me into the ground!

 

And if my H was having a serious love affair with someone, yeah, I might be inclined to keep my hair and nails done!

 

Just my thoughts.

[Star_Bright]

KTD, I believe you are a lot like me in that you are convicted about your beliefs and must learn your own lessons in life. I was never one who could heed a warning. I had to experience it for myself.

 

I read and posted on here and continued with my A believing that he and I were different. But little by little I saw that the things said on LS were the things that were actually occurring. It was only after I walked my path and saw that it unfolded in the same way as the majority of these A's that I knew the LSer's were right. It's a humbling experience, but it taught me a good lesson in life, about love, about self respect, about trust.

 

Regardless of people's opinions, most people here have walked the A path and have been significantly hurt. A couple have gone on to marry their A partners but I believe laid down the law and forced a choice in order for it to happen. Most who have done that have watched their MP walk away. The OW who say they are happy have simply accepted this is what they will have. If more comes along fine, but they aren't waiting with baited breath for him to walk out the door at any minute. They have accepted the A for what it is and what it means to them.

 

If that works for them, that's fine. But there's a difference between acceptance, forcing a hand, and what you're doing. You're playing this NSA game while you have very strong feelings for him. It's a walking contradiction and you're only hurting yourself with this strategy. Because I believe that's what it is...a strategy for getting what you want in the end.

 

I have not seen, not in one case yet (not saying they don't exist) where the OW just accepts whatever from the MM, and the MM actually D's his W for the OW. I have never, ever seen it work where the OW makes it so easy for the MM that he isn't accountable to the OW at all. You are trusting him to follow through on what he said. Okay, that's your choice. But be prepared for that not to happen, especially with your involvement.

 

If you make his life easier for him, he will be much less motivated to part with those things holding him at home. Why? Because suddenly it doesn't hurt as bad...it's not as intolerable because he has you to pick him up. I fully believe being in an A, especially the position you've put yourself in, only delays the failing of a M (if it is to fail).

 

Speaking from experience, you did yourself a huge disservice by allowing him to treat you as a NSA relationship. You teach others how to treat you. Remember that.

 

YES, this is exactly what I was trying to say! If he is your heart but you say you are okay with NSA... you are going to have to be okay with accepting that forever. Because he will not be motivated to change. If he really wants to be with you he is going to have to change things. If not he will stay where he is and you will keep accepting what he has to offer you when clearly you want more.

 

I think you might be afraid to lay down the law or force his hand or whatever, because you think he will stay put. Well, you may be surprised in that if he needs and loves you that much, he will change things to give you what you need. And if not, then why is he your heart? Why do you love him to the extent that you won't be with other guys, when he doesn't love you enough to be with you and only you? That is the part I don't get.

 

I think people stay where they are and are afraid of change. Doesn't make them bad people but it's just human nature. I say eventually you are going to have to make him choose, and if he doesn't choose you, you are better off, because then you can give your heart to someone who can give you their heart back.

[awkward]

There are several red flags that you have posted about here. Right now you believe him because you choose to believe him or have to believe him for your relationship to make sense for you. I understand this. You love him and can't imagine him lying to you. And there is the possibility that he is being truthful with you. I don't want to spend much time on the truth vs. lie part because right now you are trusting him until he provides you with a reason not to.

 

However, something to consider is when he lies to his wife do you think he has a different look on his face? I mean when he is trying to get someone to believe something that is not true, is there a different look than when he is being completely honest? I think another way to gauge whether someone is honest with us is if it doesn't make sense it's probably not true. Just consider instead of going by how he looks and feels to gauge his honesty, go by how you feel about what he is telling you.

 

Did your ex-H say things about you to his OW that were only part true or not true at all? You see where I'm going with this? I'm not advising you not to believe your MM. My advice is to keep your eyes open and if he tells you something that doesn't make sense to you, examine it carefully. Maybe ask him questions for clarification, etc. You don't have to second guess him unless he gives you a reason to. But if he does give you a reason, I would not go with a head in the sand or blind trust response. That would only serve to hurt you and your interests.

 

To be honest, I have zero sympathy for this particular woman... I have had to allow myself to believe everything he's told me' about her and therefore feel that she has earned every ounce of betrayal she gets.

 

You need to be okay with this affair within your own morality framework and not his or hers. His wife does not deserve this betrayal. Nobody deserves this betrayal even if they were the betrayer at one time. Your decision to participate in this affair should not be dependent on what type of person the BS is or how she behaves. Your choice to participate in this says everything about you and not her. What it says is up to you to define, good or bad. If you discovered his BS was wife/mother of the year would that change you or change how you behave with MM?

 

He has other proof on her affairs, after intercepting emails, etc but the most recent situation was what he is positive about is that he thinks she had an abortion...and he told me that he checked her phone voicemail and there was a message on a Saturday from a dr (not an office but the dr himself) wanting to confirm she was still okay with her decision and coming in for the procedure that afternoon...and if so to make sure she had someone who could drive her home after.

 

There are some people who violate HIPAA laws so it is a possibility, slim chance but still could be true. Unfortunately for these professionals it is a costly mistake. If MM told his wife he knew of her abortion because the doctor left a message about her procedure, she could file and win a large (very large) lawsuit. Her financial problems would be solved and she could then move on and leave her children as MM believes she will when she is financially secure.

 

The one thing that bothers me about asking advice from women in similar situations is that peep are so quick to assume that they know the mm better than the ap and that he MUST be as cold and calculating and manipulative as the man that betrayed her. I ask that u trust my judgment on that factor and try to keep the advice u give to the facts that u have versus assumptions on his character.

 

I understand what you are saying about you having a knowledge base that other LS members don't have about your MM. If we post something that is clearly off target it's ok to say so. I think though that what we offer is a non-invested perspective that may be beneficial to you at some point. Also, I have not been betrayed so I don't compare your MM to another man. I do admit however, that my opinion of MM rarely changes within the different stories, but technically the MM in these stories for the most part do and say the same things so I'm not sure if it is a personal bias or just that I dislike the fence sitting behavior that many of these MM choose to do.

 

I guess he told her he talked to me' for a little while back when we first met and that was it. Me actually saying hey stranger back just confirmed his story since I didn't say another word after that. So yea the lie continues, but she's definitely pissed and untrusting right now.

 

As far as him denying you to his BS there are a few ways to look at this. Some women are extremely hurt when their relationship, love, etc. is denied. Others realize that in order to continue the affair this is often done. If you are fine with it, then it shouldn't be a problem. I do have concerns about you stating that you would gaslight his BS as well, but again that is a personal choice. If you are comfortable with that then nothing I can say would matter anyways.

 

My heart is already protected to a degree. I'm fully aware the likelihood that this won't turn out in my favor. Nor are we in a serious relationship with any false promises of some forever blissful future together. It is not my place to pressure him to leave for me' and I do not. If he's not in a place yet to admit to her then I'm not gonna try and encourage it. Its his life to choose and live.

 

Protect you heart even further if you can. I hear you saying it's a FWB thing but I can also see you love him dearly. I agree it's not your place to pressure him to leave. There are many happy other women. So until you're no longer happy, it will be what it is.

 

As far as the house and children goes, if his BS is using a controlled substance that impairs her ability to adequately care for her children, MM will be awarded custody and he will continue to enjoy the family home. What doesn't make sense to me is that if she is using drugs, and he is truly concerned about how that affects her ability to parent, why is he leaving his children in her care?

 

There is more I would like to comment on but I'm afraid at this time it would look like more piling on and might cause you to feel defensive again. Plus I feel like I just wrote a novel lol. I do hope that he means what he says to you and will back them up with actions. From what you say, you appear to be in a good place and won't be completely destroyed if he doesn't follow through. I like that you're still living your life regardless of how he is living his.

 

ETA:

He sends me' pictures of them out and about...soccer practice, swimming, him rocking his two-year old to sleep.

 

This is the utmost betrayal.

Edited October 4, 2010 by awkward
Last paragraph added.

[porter218]

 

 

As far as the house and children goes, if his BS is using a controlled substance that impairs her ability to adequately care for her children, MM will be awarded custody and he will continue to enjoy the family home. What doesn't make sense to me is that if she is using drugs, and he is truly concerned about how that affects her ability to parent, why is he leaving his children in her care?

Perhaps he is a recreational drug user as well...??

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarmasTestDummy

He sends me' pictures of them out and about...soccer practice, swimming, him rocking his two-year old to sleep.

 

 

This is the utmost betrayal.

ehh... I wouldn't say thats the worst thing he has done. At least he is proud enough of his kids to show them off. My xH would constantly glowingly rave about our kids to all of his OW share pics and everything. It didn't upset me too much because I'm proud of them too. I was glad at least the fact that they are on is mind 24/7. If in his 'other life' he was forgetting about his kids too then I would have reason to be concerned about him as a father.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Well u all may think your words went in one ear and out another but they were all ringing very clearly a couple hours ago while we had the post d-day why didn't u fess up and take ur opportunity conversation.

 

He was acting very ehh whatever towards me'. Casual almost and I'm sorry but don't come to me' after barely letting me know what happened and not be prepared to have answers. I asked him well what now? Are we good? Did the rules of the game change? Is she going to be monitoring your phone usage now? His response was,"well she wants me to give her a fair chance."

 

That made my blood boil. I kinda went off because all these excuses vie been making for him about why he is in such the right to do what he did would not afford anyone a fair chance...another chance. I just starred throwing things in his face like the drugs, alcohol, abuse, adultery, abortion, all back at him demanding to know why he would owe her anything after that, and his response was that he he had to know he did everything he could for his kids sake.

 

So I said, "sounds good. Sounds like you decided already. Sounds like NSA easy out..so I'm taking it. I'm not going to interfere or wait on a man who's still in love with his wife and feels he hasn't given her a fair chance...so I wish you the best. The only way she'd going to get a fair chance is if you stop talking to me', so have a nice life. Good luck. Hope it all works out happily ever after."

 

So, I'm bummed...hurt...but also glad to have seen it for what it was, a man making more excuses. Will make it much easier this time than him saying he needs to sort things out. Don't leave me' with hope...leave me' with the knowledge that u made your choice. I can accept that. I can find the man who wants to love me' and only me'.

[donnamaybe]

I can find the man who wants to love me' and only me'.

Yes you can! Or, better yet, let him find YOU!

 

I'm happy to read the strength in your words. It won't be easy, but you are worth it.

[greengoddess]

Good for you! Now stay strong. Do not give him any attention or conversation. He has to figure out his marriage without your added support and intimacy.

[porter218]

Good for you!! Now you are free to find someone who can truly be there for you and your kids!! It's time for your life that has been on pause to start again.

[awkward]

I'm sorry that it went this way for you today. Honestly Karma I think you'll be just fine. You realize that it is your life your living and not his. So live your life to the fullest.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Good for you! Now stay strong. Do not give him any attention or conversation. He has to figure out his marriage without your added support and intimacy.

 

No I absolutely can not and will not. If its on him now to make it right by giving her a 'fair chance' then any effort on his part to contact me' is a failure to follow through on his promise to her. She cant have a fair chance if the cards are still stacked against her. If he gets weak I will lose respect for him and don't think I'd wanna go there again anyway...certainly not as an oW in the wings again. Hell I deserve a fair chance too. I certainly never betrayed him or judged him. Sohe should think i deserve more too.

[jthorne]

Ok, I don't mean to be unsupportive here, but what happens after 11 days of NC and you start missing him? Are you going to be willing to accept less than before?

 

I'm glad you are staying away from him, but be prepared for his return.

[porter218]

No I absolutely can not and will not. If its on him now to make it right by giving her a 'fair chance' then any effort on his part to contact me' is a failure to follow through on his promise to her. She cant have a fair chance if the cards are still stacked against her. If he gets weak I will lose respect for him and don't think I'd wanna go there again anyway...certainly not as an oW in the wings again. Hell I deserve a fair chance too. I certainly never betrayed him or judged him. Sohe should think i deserve more too.

 

Exactly. He seemed to be underestimating your value. It is kinda insulting really. All those bad things he has to say about his wife just make him look bad. If he chose to spend the rest of his life with someone like her then what is his malfunction...? He is obviously a little more of a mess then he portrays.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Ok, I don't mean to be unsupportive here, but what happens after 11 days of NC and you start missing him? Are you going to be willing to accept less than before?

 

I'm glad you are staying away from him, but be prepared for his return.

 

Its a very good question and valid concern but I don't think so. This is the first time I have ever been pissed off at him...felt his rationale was ridiculous and felt insulted. This wasn't me' saying fine we'll try NC again, drop me a line if things change. This was more of a breakup...have a nice life. I think maybe in a week he'll miss me', see she's still the same person that pissed him off all the time, but I cant hear him tell me how awful she is anymore butnmake excuses about why he'd stay.

[Star_Bright]

Well u all may think your words went in one ear and out another but they were all ringing very clearly a couple hours ago while we had the post d-day why didn't u fess up and take ur opportunity conversation.

 

He was acting very ehh whatever towards me'. Casual almost and I'm sorry but don't come to me' after barely letting me know what happened and not be prepared to have answers. I asked him well what now? Are we good? Did the rules of the game change? Is she going to be monitoring your phone usage now? His response was,"well she wants me to give her a fair chance."

 

That made my blood boil. I kinda went off because all these excuses vie been making for him about why he is in such the right to do what he did would not afford anyone a fair chance...another chance. I just starred throwing things in his face like the drugs, alcohol, abuse, adultery, abortion, all back at him demanding to know why he would owe her anything after that, and his response was that he he had to know he did everything he could for his kids sake.

 

So I said, "sounds good. Sounds like you decided already. Sounds like NSA easy out..so I'm taking it. I'm not going to interfere or wait on a man who's still in love with his wife and feels he hasn't given her a fair chance...so I wish you the best. The only way she'd going to get a fair chance is if you stop talking to me', so have a nice life. Good luck. Hope it all works out happily ever after."

 

So, I'm bummed...hurt...but also glad to have seen it for what it was, a man making more excuses. Will make it much easier this time than him saying he needs to sort things out. Don't leave me' with hope...leave me' with the knowledge that u made your choice. I can accept that. I can find the man who wants to love me' and only me'.

 

Good for you, Karma!!

 

I completely get it because I too get defensive when I read the posts and think "MY MM isn't like that" or "They're wrong and he wouldn't do that to me..." but then it makes me start to think, and when he says or does something that doesn't add up, everything from LS comes back to me and I pile it on the poor guy with the "what about...?" and "this doesn't make sense..." etc. He probably wonders where all my wising-up is coming from. So I totally get what you mean and I am glad that our words helped you.

 

And the part that I bolded is so true!!! This is why I've been telling MM that if he has any hope of wanting to work on his marriage, he needs to stop talking to me (his wife says that too of course). Mine needs to make a choice and so does yours... and yours has, so I'm so proud of you for seeing that and for leaving him to his choice. He chooses the drug addict cheater over you... you can do better!!!

 

I'm so proud of you, stay strong, and if I have to leave mine then I hope you will support me in staying strong too.

[Silly_Girl]

Karma, I think you've got balls and you have a better chance than most in moving on and staying single-minded and getting yourself in a good place. Hope it happens.

[Fieldsofgold]

My guess is that he is not giving *her* another chance, but that she is giving *him* another chance.

 

Of course, we can't know for sure, but my guess is that all those terrible things he said about her were either untrue, or exaggerated.

 

If he is a typical bs-ing MM, he will contact you in a couple of weeks, or as soon as he's smoothed things over sufficiently with her, so that she's not watching him like a hawk. He will tell you how he has missed you, how you are what he needs.

 

If my instincts are right, at that point you will tell him to kiss off, because I think you really are that smart!

[PhoenixLady]

Karma, I think you've got balls and you have a better chance than most in moving on and staying single-minded and getting yourself in a good place. Hope it happens.

 

My guess is that he is not giving *her* another chance, but that she is giving *him* another chance.

 

Of course, we can't know for sure, but my guess is that all those terrible things he said about her were either untrue, or exaggerated.

 

If he is a typical bs-ing MM, he will contact you in a couple of weeks, or as soon as he's smoothed things over sufficiently with her, so that she's not watching him like a hawk. He will tell you how he has missed you, how you are what he needs.

 

If my instincts are right, at that point you will tell him to kiss off, because I think you really are that smart!

 

I agree with the two posters above. I sensed something different about you. Something that went beyond your obvious intelligence. Anyway, I'm glad to see that you won't be wasting any more of your time with a man who can't give you what you can give.

 

But yep, he'll be around. His enormous ego won't accept this so fast.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Good for you, Karma!!

 

I completely get it because I too get defensive when I read the posts and think "MY MM isn't like that" or "They're wrong and he wouldn't do that to me..." but then it makes me start to think, and when he says or does something that doesn't add up, everything from LS comes back to me and I pile it on the poor guy with the "what about...?" and "this doesn't make sense..." etc. He probably wonders where all my wising-up is coming from. So I totally get what you mean and I am glad that our words helped you.

 

And the part that I bolded is so true!!! This is why I've been telling MM that if he has any hope of wanting to work on his marriage, he needs to stop talking to me (his wife says that too of course). Mine needs to make a choice and so does yours... and yours has, so I'm so proud of you for seeing that and for leaving him to his choice. He chooses the drug addict cheater over you... you can do better!!!

 

I'm so proud of you, stay strong, and if I have to leave mine then I hope you will support me in staying strong too.

 

You bet ur butt I'll be there to support u too! We can start a Sex in the City strong powerful single ladies club!! Lol

[desertIslandCactus]

I'm happy for you too KTD. And you're right .. the comments over the weekend did not go in one ear and out the other .. and very timely as well ..

 

It's a good move on your part .. it happens when you realize that your Value is far more important than the whims of an indecisive MM.

 

Take care .. and one day at a time..

[KarmasTestDummy]

I agree with the two posters above. I sensed something different about you. Something that went beyond your obvious intelligence. Anyway, I'm glad to see that you won't be wasting any more of your time with a man who can't give you what you can give.

 

But yep, he'll be around. His enormous ego won't accept this so fast.

 

Thank you ladies. That means a lot. I try to be strong and firm and stubborn even when I don't believe I should. Ive been walked on more than enough times to allow it to become a cycle with any guy. If u stop showing me' I'm worth it, you aren't worth me'.

[whichwayisup]

Whatever fog you were in, believing every single word he told you about his marriage, his wife, etc - has lifted and from where I sit, reality is staring you in the face. Glad this happened now and not in a year or two from now.

 

I know I may have been harsh in some of my replies to you, but I just wanted to try to wake you up. This guy and his true colours have woken you up!

 

Stay strong and keep posting.