24 hrs nc...not like him...fearing d-day

[KarmasTestDummy]

Did he really tell you that or did he tell you he thought his marriage deserved a fair chance?

 

It looks to me like you are the one who thinks he is not worth fighting for.

 

Affairs are a hassle though. So if you are done, it is probably the best for you. These MM tend to be tangled up in the web of marriage for a long time.

 

I'm trying to pull the exact words up in my mind. It didn't come out as a dig against me but it was not his marriage get a fair chance either, he said SHE deserved a fair chance and he couldn't walk without knowing that he had done everything in his power to salvage it first.

[Fieldsofgold]

I was still in love with my exh the day I packed myself and my kids up and moved out too. I learned love had nothing to do with what was best for us after putting up with physical abuse and cheating for years. It was going to be my demise if I stayed. I have to think leaving mm is a lot like that right now. I don't want to compromise myself for someone who flat out told me' I wasn't worth fighting for.

 

This is some of the best thinking I have read on LS in recent days.

 

I broke up with xBF/MM because he had lied to me and disrespected me. Respect is huge to me. I had a hard time going NC for a while - I loved him. I wanted to believe that he really did love me, too, as he said he did. I wanted to believe that I had not been that wrong or that deceived. I kept looking for shreds of truth.

 

One day I was flipping through some photos of him and us. He looked soooo happy, like a man deliriously in love, with not a care in the world except that he loved me.

 

BUT, at some point this dawned on me: if I had been him, and if I had truly been in love with someone like he said he was me, I would have been worried sick how my situation would hurt them. I would not have been able to go blissfully along, carefree. I would have been distraught with concern for the pain my situation would cause them. I would have grieved over it.

 

I realized if he had actually, really loved me, he would have, too. He would have been deeply concerned about the pain his choices would cause me.

 

He was not. He was not worried about a thing (other than getting caught - he was big-time worried about that!) When he was with me, he was blissfully happy. He was not one bit concerned about me suffering because of his choices.

 

It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I knew it was true. Yes, he might have wonderful feelings for me, and while he was with me, BUT he was not actually concerned about ME or MY feelings. He was not concerned about me being lonely, or alone, or the turmoil and pain his situation would cause. He was not concerned about my long-term happiness, about giving me what was best for me. That's when I realized that he was doing only what felt good to him, no concern for the damage and devastation his choices might cause me. That's when I knew his "love" for me was totally selfish, self-centered and self-serving. I know I'm rambling here, but it was a bitter and life-changing epiphany.

 

Love is wanting the best for the person you love. Just like my MM, there is no way yours is thinking about what is best for YOU. Until that is the case, what he had/has for you is not real love. Not the kind you and I and most everyone else wants.

 

I love Silly Girl's sig! Oh, yeah, he loved me in his own way. . . But is that enough? For me, NO.

 

Stand strong for the real thing!

Edited October 6, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[bentnotbroken]

What was there to fight for?

 

 

Really? Not every AP thinks sticking around waiting for WS for years is worth fighting for. What is worth it, the lies? The gas lighting? The fact that he had a network of people lying for him(the same network that could lie to his wife can lie to you too)? The fact that when he had the opportunity to leave the druggie(who he says asked for a fair chance, me thinks he lies more, he's doing the begging)he didn't? What is there to fight for?

[PhoenixLady]

I'm trying to pull the exact words up in my mind. It didn't come out as a dig against me but it was not his marriage get a fair chance either, he said SHE deserved a fair chance and he couldn't walk without knowing that he had done everything in his power to salvage it first.

 

Again, that's putting you in the backseat and putting his wife first, no matter how a person wants to spin it.

 

And for the record, I've never been a BS or OW, thank God. I can't imagine being in either position. They both sound pretty bad. But one is by choice and the other isn't. That's the part I can't understand...why would any sane, smart woman with a shred of self-esteem actually choose to be second best? Why do they believe everything these guys tell them? I have friends who have been in this position and the guys sound like they all read from the same "script." "I'm working on it." I'm not having sex with my wife, never even touch her." "You're number one." And on and on...I never can get how these supposedly smart women believe this malarky. Not one single one of the women i met who were involved with these selfish men turned out well. But them most don't. Of course each one thought they were going to be the exception though.

 

I don't know...I just don't get actively choosing this kind of "relationship" - if you even want to call it that. In my book it's not even a relationship. It's one person using another and the other being used. I never could understand what those women got out of it.

 

Not one of those men were worth "fighting for" either. I wouldn't have even dated any of them, let alone slept with them. One of these women hardly even saw her guy. They mainly just talked on the phone and computer. She actually put her life on hold for that. Luckily, she finally ended up listening to her friends and got out of it after wasting 2 years of her life and putting her life on hold for him. That was 8 years ago and guess what? He's still with his wife. He even had another child with her. And yep, you guessed it. He told her their sex life was over! She says she feels like such a fool and has NO idea what she was thinking back then. She thinks she was vulnerable to it because she was at a low point in her life and had no self-esteem and thought that was the best she could do as far as a mate. Thank God she got wise and is married now with a beautiful little girl. Her husband is totally devoted to her and only to her.

 

I like Field of Gold's post. Yes, stand strong and hold out for the REAL thing...not some faux version of a "relationship."

Edited October 6, 2010 by PhoenixLady

[jennie-jennie]

I'm trying to pull the exact words up in my mind. It didn't come out as a dig against me but it was not his marriage get a fair chance either, he said SHE deserved a fair chance and he couldn't walk without knowing that he had done everything in his power to salvage it first.

 

It is not about you not being worth fighting for then, it is about giving her a fair chance.

 

He was married when your relationship began. He is still married. He can not commit fully to you until he is done with his marriage. Logical time sequence as I posted in the post below:

 

MM tend to not feel able to let go of their marriages without giving them a fair chance. It is par for the course. It has nothing to do with how much they value the OW or about giving her a fair chance. They already had a commitment, so giving that commitment a fair chance comes first in time in their mind. Which is logical if you think about it.

 

You seem to have gotten yourself an ordinary MM. Perhaps it is not so much of an exit affair as you tended to believe?

 

MM usually are not able to work on their marriages even when they break contact with the OW because she still has too big a place in their heart. So he will most likely be back with you in a while. Notice that be back with you does not equal being ready to end the marriage.

 

You seem to have decided that you are done with the affair. We all have to weigh the benefits with the negative consequences. Most of us OW would rather have a regular relationship than an affair. So if this is it for you, then it is, I hope the future has a single man in store for you soon instead!

 

That in no way means that you do not have the right to say enough is enough. Of course you do. I just want you to look at the situation straight.

 

I never understood why LS posters feel the need to add a more negative perception on an extramarital relationship than it deserves. An affair is bad enough in itself. Many OW want out. They don't need to have their minds filled with dark thoughts about self esteem or lies or the love the MM held for them. The fact that it is an affair and he is staying in his marriage (at least for now) is enough.

[BB07]

I love this post FOG........because it so well speaks to the difference of selfish love vs a love that is healthy and good for us. I think some of these mm do love the OW's but it is not a love that is sustainable, or that is good to take with us, or is it healthy. For them it's selfish....and who wants a selfish ass who won't or can't be there for you when you are hurting or sick and all the other stuff that life brings us that is unpleasant. Selfish asses do not make for a good relationship......period.

 

This is some of the best thinking I have read on LS in recent days.

 

I broke up with xBF/MM because he had lied to me and disrespected me. Respect is huge to me. I had a hard time going NC for a while - I loved him. I wanted to believe that he really did love me, too, as he said he did. I wanted to believe that I had not been that wrong or that deceived. I kept looking for shreds of truth.

 

One day I was flipping through some photos of him and us. He looked soooo happy, like a man deliriously in love, with not a care in the world except that he loved me.

 

BUT, at some point this dawned on me: if I had been him, and if I had truly been in love with someone like he said he was me, I would have been worried sick how my situation would hurt them. I would not have been able to go blissfully along, carefree. I would have been distraught with concern for the pain my situation would cause them. I would have grieved over it.

 

I realized if he had actually, really loved me, he would have, too. He would have been deeply concerned about the pain his choices would cause me.

 

He was not. He was not worried about a thing (other than getting caught - he was big-time worried about that!) When he was with me, he was blissfully happy. He was not one bit concerned about me suffering because of his choices.

 

It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I knew it was true. Yes, he might have wonderful feelings for me, and while he was with me, BUT he was not actually concerned about ME or MY feelings. He was not concerned about me being lonely, or alone, or the turmoil and pain his situation would cause. He was not concerned about my long-term happiness, about giving me what was best for me. That's when I realized that he was doing only what felt good to him, no concern for the damage and devastation his choices might cause me. That's when I knew his "love" for me was totally selfish, self-centered and self-serving. I know I'm rambling here, but it was a bitter and life-changing epiphany.

 

Love is wanting the best for the person you love. Just like my MM, there is no way yours is thinking about what is best for YOU. Until that is the case, what he had/has for you is not real love. Not the kind you and I and most everyone else wants.

 

I love Silly Girl's sig! Oh, yeah, he loved me in his own way. . . But is that enough? For me, NO.

 

Stand strong for the real thing!

[PhoenixLady]

 

I feel the negative perception is well-deserved and helps some people open their eyes and see the affair for what it really is. Most of the time, no one wins.

 

And well said BB07. Sometimes I wonder if the OW's who stick around don't really know what a pure, unselfish love is like. Maybe they don't think it exists. Or maybe they're just fine with settling for something that's less than the genuine article.

 

Knockoffs might be ok sometimes for designer bags or jewelry but not for love.

[Star_Bright]

I still half expect that call one day many months down the road. I think there's not much hope for his marriage in the long run, but it's not going to be in the next couple of weeks.

 

So, with that being said I think I'll be able to keep my anger if he calls with nothing to offer. I can resist from that perspective...but I'd like to keep the line of communication open for down the road, mostly because I wanna see how the rest of his life and regrets ultimately play out. Not to say for even a second that at that time I have any intent on being single and available.

 

Good for you! I honestly hope that if he does contact you down the road, you will no longer be interested in him. I want that for myself too. Because if I hold on to MM that long, I will only be experiencing pain. I want to be out there living my life. At this point I don't even want to date because I feel I need to work on myself. I don't want to be distracted by any man. I want to get to where I love my life exactly the way it is and if I do meet a good guy, then he will just be a bonus to my life and we will share our nice lives together, but he won't be the end all be all, and I won't *need* him. Right now I do not feel like I have a nice life, it has been all based around MM, and if I keep this open for him then I can never move on. I wish the same for you, I want you to focus on yourself and move on. Good luck Karma!

[Star_Bright]

I was still in love with my exh the day I packed myself and my kids up and moved out too. I learned love had nothing to do with what was best for us after putting up with physical abuse and cheating for years. It was going to be my demise if I stayed. I have to think leaving mm is a lot like that right now. I don't want to compromise myself for someone who flat out told me' I wasn't worth fighting for.

 

That is so true, Karma! Sometimes we love a bad person or situation. And why do I love MM anyway... am I at a bad place in my life where I could put up with this kind of indecision and confusion? That isn't love!! Just like abuse and cheating isn't love. It feels like love and maybe it's need or fear or something, but I know real love is something different. I'm so glad you pointed that out.

[Star_Bright]

This is some of the best thinking I have read on LS in recent days.

 

I broke up with xBF/MM because he had lied to me and disrespected me. Respect is huge to me. I had a hard time going NC for a while - I loved him. I wanted to believe that he really did love me, too, as he said he did. I wanted to believe that I had not been that wrong or that deceived. I kept looking for shreds of truth.

 

One day I was flipping through some photos of him and us. He looked soooo happy, like a man deliriously in love, with not a care in the world except that he loved me.

 

BUT, at some point this dawned on me: if I had been him, and if I had truly been in love with someone like he said he was me, I would have been worried sick how my situation would hurt them. I would not have been able to go blissfully along, carefree. I would have been distraught with concern for the pain my situation would cause them. I would have grieved over it.

 

I realized if he had actually, really loved me, he would have, too. He would have been deeply concerned about the pain his choices would cause me.

 

He was not. He was not worried about a thing (other than getting caught - he was big-time worried about that!) When he was with me, he was blissfully happy. He was not one bit concerned about me suffering because of his choices.

 

It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I knew it was true. Yes, he might have wonderful feelings for me, and while he was with me, BUT he was not actually concerned about ME or MY feelings. He was not concerned about me being lonely, or alone, or the turmoil and pain his situation would cause. He was not concerned about my long-term happiness, about giving me what was best for me. That's when I realized that he was doing only what felt good to him, no concern for the damage and devastation his choices might cause me. That's when I knew his "love" for me was totally selfish, self-centered and self-serving. I know I'm rambling here, but it was a bitter and life-changing epiphany.

 

Love is wanting the best for the person you love. Just like my MM, there is no way yours is thinking about what is best for YOU. Until that is the case, what he had/has for you is not real love. Not the kind you and I and most everyone else wants.

 

I love Silly Girl's sig! Oh, yeah, he loved me in his own way. . . But is that enough? For me, NO.

 

Stand strong for the real thing!

 

This is so true too, FieldsofGold. I've thought the same thing because MM looks at me like he adores me, like he is so happy to be around me, and he does things for me all the time. So in many ways it looks like love. But then I realize he is mainly happy to have me in his life, which is nice, but it doesn't mean he is prepared to do what it takes to give me what I REALLY need, which is a real and true relationship. Often I think he just does what will make me happy enough to stay with him as his OW. Now to be fair to him he did move out but I think he did that because he knew I was fed up with the affair, not because he was truly ready/able to be with me. I am not saying he doesn't love me but it's not the kind of love I want and need. Because he is not in that place where he can provide me with that. For now for him it is a selfish love. Very centered on what I add to his life.

[Ellin]

Are you serious? When is a relationship with a married man with four kids ever worth keeping anyway? Isn't he lying at the very least to his wife? Does this sound like a man of character and one worth keeping? I think not.

 

Since you keep mentioning his four children whenever you write that it's not a man worth having, I just wonder if you see a potential partner's children as burden and the fewer of them the better?

 

Just curious.

[PhoenixLady]

Since you keep mentioning his four children whenever you write that it's not a man worth having, I just wonder if you see a potential partner's children as burden and the fewer of them the better?

 

Just curious.

 

I don't think I've mentioned it "every time" just that one time I think. And to answer your question, absolutely it's a burden! Anyone who thinks otherwise is pretty much fooling themselves. Been there and done it twice. Not saying it can't work out. I love my stepson. But did you know that the divorce rate is even higher among those marriages where kids from a previous marriage are involved? It's absolutely the toughest thing. And there's no way, I could have done it with more than one child. At least I don't think so. It was hard enough with one. It's not for everybody that's for sure. In fact, I vowed (after my first marriage failed) that I'd never, ever get involved with a man with children again. But I did and I ended up making it work. But like I said, it wasn't easy and I can tell you right now that if God forbid anything happened to my H I'd really never go through it a third time. The man would either have to have no kids or have them be grown and out of the house.

 

Like I said, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to go through. Have you ever been a stepparent? I gather from your question that maybe you haven't.

[Fieldsofgold]

I don't think I've mentioned it "every time" just that one time I think. And to answer your question, absolutely it's a burden! Anyone who thinks otherwise is pretty much fooling themselves. Been there and done it twice. Not saying it can't work out. I love my stepson. But did you know that the divorce rate is even higher among those marriages where kids from a previous marriage are involved? It's absolutely the toughest thing. And there's no way, I could have done it with more than one child. At least I don't think so. It was hard enough with one. It's not for everybody that's for sure. In fact, I vowed (after my first marriage failed) that I'd never, ever get involved with a man with children again. But I did and I ended up making it work. But like I said, it wasn't easy and I can tell you right now that if God forbid anything happened to my H I'd really never go through it a third time. The man would either have to have no kids or have them be grown and out of the house.

 

Like I said, it's the hardest thing I've ever had to go through. Have you ever been a stepparent? I gather from your question that maybe you haven't.

 

Even rearing a biological child is tough. Worth it (most days LOL) but tough. The teen years and even relationships with adult children can be pretty tricky at times.

 

It takes a special kind of person to be a good and loving step-parent. In talking to people, I can't tell you how many people complain about their step-children, especially men, in my experience, seem to complain about the step-children more. No offense to men. That has just been my experience. I can certainly believe that M with step-children have a higher D rate.

 

My daughter, with a young son, was in a LT relationship, engaged to a man who had custody of his 12 yo daughter. They went to counselling, everything! Issues surrounding the children finally ended their relationship, and it wasn't even a live-in relationship! My daughter, a very loving person and good with children, vowed never to date a man with children still living at home. It's pretty much a deal breaker for her.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Fieldsofgold

[PhoenixLady]

Even rearing a biological child is tough. Worth it (most days LOL) but tough. The teen years and even relationships with adult children can be pretty tricky at times. It takes a special kind of person to be a good and loving step-parent.

 

In talking to people, I can't tell you how many people complain about their step-children, especially men, in my experience, seem to complain about the step-children more. No offense to men. That has just been my experience.

 

My daughter was engaged to a man who had custody of his 12 yo daughter. Issues surrounding her finally ended their relationship!

 

Absolutely, right that it's tough with your own. I'm a mother of a teenager so I know! And I believe you FOG about men being less tolerant of kids who aren't their own. It really does take a special type of person to make it work where kids who aren't your own are involved. Honestly, I really didn't think I had it in me. Like I said it was very, very difficult at times.

 

I'm sorry about your daughter's relationship. But yeah, I have a friend going through the same thing now with a man who has custody of an 8 year old. My friend is ready to end it.

 

So yeah, I think Karma dodged a huge bullet on this one!

[jennie-jennie]

This is some of the best thinking I have read on LS in recent days.

 

I broke up with xBF/MM because he had lied to me and disrespected me. Respect is huge to me. I had a hard time going NC for a while - I loved him. I wanted to believe that he really did love me, too, as he said he did. I wanted to believe that I had not been that wrong or that deceived. I kept looking for shreds of truth.

 

One day I was flipping through some photos of him and us. He looked soooo happy, like a man deliriously in love, with not a care in the world except that he loved me.

 

BUT, at some point this dawned on me: if I had been him, and if I had truly been in love with someone like he said he was me, I would have been worried sick how my situation would hurt them. I would not have been able to go blissfully along, carefree. I would have been distraught with concern for the pain my situation would cause them. I would have grieved over it.

 

I realized if he had actually, really loved me, he would have, too. He would have been deeply concerned about the pain his choices would cause me.

 

He was not. He was not worried about a thing (other than getting caught - he was big-time worried about that!) When he was with me, he was blissfully happy. He was not one bit concerned about me suffering because of his choices.

 

It was a bitter pill to swallow, but I knew it was true. Yes, he might have wonderful feelings for me, and while he was with me, BUT he was not actually concerned about ME or MY feelings. He was not concerned about me being lonely, or alone, or the turmoil and pain his situation would cause. He was not concerned about my long-term happiness, about giving me what was best for me. That's when I realized that he was doing only what felt good to him, no concern for the damage and devastation his choices might cause me. That's when I knew his "love" for me was totally selfish, self-centered and self-serving. I know I'm rambling here, but it was a bitter and life-changing epiphany.

 

Love is wanting the best for the person you love. Just like my MM, there is no way yours is thinking about what is best for YOU. Until that is the case, what he had/has for you is not real love. Not the kind you and I and most everyone else wants.

 

I love Silly Girl's sig! Oh, yeah, he loved me in his own way. . . But is that enough? For me, NO.

 

Stand strong for the real thing!

 

I love this post FOG........because it so well speaks to the difference of selfish love vs a love that is healthy and good for us. I think some of these mm do love the OW's but it is not a love that is sustainable, or that is good to take with us, or is it healthy. For them it's selfish....and who wants a selfish ass who won't or can't be there for you when you are hurting or sick and all the other stuff that life brings us that is unpleasant. Selfish asses do not make for a good relationship......period.

 

I would find it outrageous if my MM ventured to make the decision to end our relationship for my sake. I am an adult and perfectly capable of making my own decisions, thank you very much.

 

Romantic love is selfish. You love the person who makes you feel good. That doesn't mean you don't care for them and their wellbeing. But to make decisions over the top of their heads as if they were children - that is just too much.

[Star_Bright]

I would find it outrageous if my MM ventured to make the decision to end our relationship for my sake. I am an adult and perfectly capable of making my own decisions, thank you very much.

 

Romantic love is selfish. You love the person who makes you feel good. That doesn't mean you don't care for them and their wellbeing. But to make decisions over the top of their heads as if they were children - that is just too much.

 

As messed up as my affair "relationship" has been, I feel like it's taught me some things. The biggest thing is that I have defined what love is for me. It is actively looking out for your partner's well-being and happiness, even if that means putting their interests ahead of your own. Well for me that no longer works in an affair situation because I have been putting him first but he hasn't been putting me first. It has to work both ways or it doesn't work. He hasn't been looking out for what is in my best interest so I can't keep looking out for his.

 

I have never been married and I used to wonder who would get married and why; ironically this relationship has helped me understand that better. I have never had feelings like this for anyone before. But to me it is not only the feelings that count but also the actions. I will not marry someone I don't have feelings for and good compatibility with and many of the other things that my relationship with MM has... communication, similar interests, having fun together, being open and honest with each other (sure maybe he lies to me but I have been very honest with him and expect the same in any relationship). But once I have that basic foundation and those sparkly feelings (which I do think exist outside of an affair, at least at the beginning of relationships), then what matters to me is action. I will not be with someone who doesn't put me first in his life, and I will always put him first.

 

I'm sorry if I sound preachy or know-it-all, I'm just trying to describe what I've learned and take some good out of this affair which recently has begun to feel like a horrible experience. To me that is what love is and I'm not going to settle for anything else any more.

[Star_Bright]

Since you claim to never have been a BS or an OW, I wonder what need of yours you fulfill by posting on a support forum for OW/OM when you are clearly belittling them.

 

I didn't really get that she was belittling us. Just asking questions that she doesn't understand... I am asking myself those same questions, how could I have settled for this? Did/do I know what real love is? I don't think I did. At least I do feel like being with MM showed me what I want in a man/relationship but I can find that with a single guy. If not I will just be happy on my own.

 

FWIW I found her questions kinda helpful, not really belittling... maybe I read them the wrong way and they were supposed to be belittling, or maybe I'm just in a place where I'm really confused!!!

[BB07]

I would find it outrageous if my MM ventured to make the decision to end our relationship for my sake. I am an adult and perfectly capable of making my own decisions, thank you very much.

 

Romantic love is selfish. You love the person who makes you feel good. That doesn't mean you don't care for them and their wellbeing. But to make decisions over the top of their heads as if they were children - that is just too much.

 

JJ........I really don't understand what quoting my post had to do with your post.

[jennie-jennie]

I love this post FOG........because it so well speaks to the difference of selfish love vs a love that is healthy and good for us. I think some of these mm do love the OW's but it is not a love that is sustainable, or that is good to take with us, or is it healthy. For them it's selfish....and who wants a selfish ass who won't or can't be there for you when you are hurting or sick and all the other stuff that life brings us that is unpleasant. Selfish asses do not make for a good relationship......period.

 

I would find it outrageous if my MM ventured to make the decision to end our relationship for my sake. I am an adult and perfectly capable of making my own decisions, thank you very much.

Romantic love is selfish. You love the person who makes you feel good. That doesn't mean you don't care for them and their wellbeing. But to make decisions over the top of their heads as if they were children - that is just too much.

 

JJ........I really don't understand what quoting my post had to do with your post.

 

We were both speaking of selfish love. To me selfish love in a romantic relationship is a love that is healthy and good for us.

[donnamaybe]

"Selfish" has no place in a healthy relationship. IMO, of course.

[BB07]

We were both speaking of selfish love. To me selfish love in a romantic relationship is a love that is healthy and good for us.

 

OK.........but for me, a selfish love is not enough.

[Fieldsofgold]

OK.........but for me, a selfish love is not enough.

 

I agree. Maybe I should put it this way - I don't want a close personal relationship with a selfish person.

[jennie-jennie]

OK.........but for me, a selfish love is not enough.

 

I can agree with that. In a long term romantic relationship you will hopefully find both selfish and altruistic love. Once there is only altruistic love however, you run the risk of an affair. The selfish love actually protects marriages from affairs.

 

It is when it is only altruistic love present, that you get the line:

"I love you, but I am not in love with you."

Affair warning!

[donnamaybe]

And when ONLY selfish love is present, you might also find you're in a R with a partner who is selfishly sneaking off to get some action on the side.

[jennie-jennie]

I agree. Maybe I should put it this way - I don't want a close personal relationship with a selfish person.

 

Much better.