How long can I last?

[Lonely34]

Hello-

This is my first post in such a forum. I was engaged to a younger woman. She is eleven years younger than I (34-23). We dated for 2 1/2 years and she gave me back the ring last august. She was frustrated with my lack of commitment to her. She was right. I was devoting too much of my energy into work and my hobbies and not into making us a better couple. We had a particularly rough november with us getting into a huge fight at my parents house. We made it through that together and had a nice christmas and new years together. However, I had to go away on a business trip for three weeks in January (my first real extended trip away). The night before I left, we had a condom break on us. Her period was due the next day. She didn't get her period for 10 days after that. Being away on business, I was unable to comfort her through those 10 days very well. Plus when we did talk on the phone, I was expressing my concern with it not being a very good time for us to have a child. When she finally did get her period it was her breaking point with me.

 

She told me a few days later that she had started seeing someone else. It crushed me. By day 8 of the pregnancy scare I had come to like the fact that she was probably pregnant. I told her so in a late night phone call. I was also really starting to miss her. I had a lot of time to think while I was away and really realized how I didn't prioritize her first. I told her so. I guess it was too little to late however. When I returned she was still at our house and was very nice to me the first night. The next day however, she revealed that she was already sleeping with him. She stayed that night as well, but that was the last time she stayed here. She now stays with him every night. Needless to say its eating me alive. I truly love her more than I can say with words. I have written her probably twenty letters, made a half dozen romantic gestures, and pledged my undying love to her.

 

She now says that she is really torn about what to do. This new man is treating her better than I ever did apparently (although they only met just before Xmas and didn't start seeing each other until about the 13th of January). Yet she still really loves me and sees me about 5 times a week for 2-6 hours. We talk on the phone 3-5 times a day. Shes tells me she is thinking about me a lot. She tells me she still thinks about marrying me and having children with me. She tells me I remain the closest one to her and still draws on me for emotional support. Yet she spends every night with him.

 

She obviously is very confused about what to do now. She is excited about this new guy. They seem to have a lot in common. Although he is a year older than I am. We have seen a counseler about this, but he seemed more interested in our money than our well being. So we both stopped seeing him. Her support network is also lacking. Her parents are divorced and remarried. Her father was never there for her as a child, but he has been married for 18 years. Her mother raised her, along with her grandparents, but none of them really were there for her growing up. They are all pro-me as I have made a good impression on her family, so she is skeptical about anything they say. (Although she did meet with her mom for the first time since this happened tonight.) She met with her dad last week but did not reveal to him that she is staying with the OM. She got frustrated with him because he only wanted to try and solve the problems that she and I were having and not discuss her feelings for the OM.

 

She is keeping all of her belongings here, with the exception of a few clothing items. I know she is serious about possibly getting back together with me. But I don't know how long I can last. Every night is torture. We do have some good times when we spend time together, but we often fall into the trap of talking about what is going on and sometimes fight over it. I am trying to be patient, but it is so difficult. Today I wrote her a letter expressing that I love her for all that she is. I also told her that she needed to tell the OM the truth about us, that we did have sex twice, and that she is seriously considering coming back to me. It went over like a lead balloon. It infuriated her. She told me he is paranoid about us getting back together, and that if I was going to push her, her choice is him. We made up before she left for her moms tonite, and she has called me twice since then and been pleasant. We will be seeing each other again tommorrow, and I won't even bring up the problems we are having then.

 

I would appreciate any advice that can be offered.

[dyermaker]

You're setting yourself up for heartbreak.

 

Your current actions are delaying and amplifying the inevitable devastation, not working against them.

 

An unfortunate effect of the women in our lives leaving us is that we lose all self-respect in a vain attempt to get him back. She relies on you for emotional support, but is shacked up with another new dude. The normal you, whom I may point out she once was engaged to, wouldn't put up with that pure CRAP. The heartbroken you instead thrives in such a relationship, taking what he can get, so to speak. Where you were once a strong person that she fell in love with, you're now being used and ironically pledging your undying love as a response to such abuse.

 

You need to immediately kick heartbroken you to the curb, no woman ever falls for the heartbroken poet whom she's already left. Next, you need to kick her to the curb as well, if she won't stop sleeping with somebody else. You're not going to like emotionally supporting her for much longer, if she's having sex with other people, it's unfair to the both of you, but most importantly, you.

[saintfrancis]

Hi Lonely34,

 

Unfortunately when the tone or nature of a romance changes (for the worse), one partner will often set the boundaires of the relationship by their blatantly uncaring actions. This is what your ex/current girlfriend seems to be doing. She has let you know in no uncertain terms where you stand in her life, and it's not first. I know that is hard to swallow. But the only thing you can do in these situations is come to accept it, and move on. Moving on doesn't necessarily mean you never speak with her again or never see her again, it just means that you don't try and push her to come back to you. You don't sleep with her when she is with someone else (I may get a lot of flak for that one -- but I'll state for the record that I have already ended that part of my ex-relationship) AND like dyermaker said, you don't let her abuse you in this way.

 

This is something I am grappling with right now (although my situation is very different in many ways, lol!). I have been mostly successful with just letting my circumstances play out, without trying to get him back or anything like that -- even though I would like to be with him. I do at this point keep in touch, or agree to talk, but on the whole I think I have been doing ok just letting chips fall, and not letting him see my pain (again, for the most part, but not always). Letting go and letting the other person either fly free or decide - on their own - to come back to you is probably THE MOST DIFFICULT thing to do in love. But, you have to do it.

 

I'm sorry you are going through this now.

[Lonely34]

Thank you for your advice. Believe it or not you are the first ones to tell me that I should stop doing what I am doing. Although, I have only told part of the story to all but a couple of my friends. I just didn't want this known amongst all my friends and family if we did end up getting back together.

 

I agree that I need to kick the heartbroken me to the curb. Only one of my letters has really had a profound impact on her. My pleading with her to stop doing what she is doing, has also gotten me nowhere but in fights with her.

 

What has worked is the fact that I have really changed my approach to my life since I have returned from my business trip. I have all but turned the TV off. I have started reading a lot more. Good books too, not my hobby magazines. I have started working out again and eating healthier. Not that I was fat before, (pretty average for an american), but I have lost ten pounds in the last month. I own my own photography business, and I have been concentrating on becoming a better photograher. I have also been doing a much better job of sharing with her who I was before we met.

 

When I returned from my trip she really didn't like me very much. According to her I have made significant progress towards being the man she wants to marry. I believe her. She too, is being tormented by her indecision about what to do. The easy thing for her to do would be to leave me altogether and move on with her life. Instead, she wrestles with this decision every day.

 

Thus I am not ready to kick her to the curb yet. She tells me that she wants to know what normal life with me is like now. The only place she is getting that now is with the OM. We invariably end up talking about our problems, and I have been smothering her when she is here. That, I need to stop.

 

I guess my plan is to show her what it is like to be with me now. Unfortunately, just pretend that this is not going on. I will do this for a while, until I think she has had a fair chance to see what life would be like with the new me. If she doesn't stop seeing him at that point, I will tell her that I can no longer see her under these conditions, and let him try to provide all of her emotional support.

 

A bit more backround info. She has been telling me quite a bit about the OM. What she likes and doesn't like about him. She does have some real concerns about him. Also she tells me that she is shacking up with him in order to really find out as much about him as she can, as quickly as she can, for me. That one has been very tough for me to swallow. But in a twisted way I can kind of see her point. Shes afraid that if she just sees him a couple of times a week he will come off as perfect for her. Now she gets to see all of his idiosyncrasies and habits. That is where she has found her concerns with him. Twisted I know.

 

I know that I am definitely not first in her life right now. Her actions tell me that every night. However, I did not make her first in my life for 2 1/2 years. She was crying out to me before that she was lonely and depressed. I wanted her to be happy, but wasn't willing to make all the sacrifices necessary to do so. All I could see was what I had already sacrificed. I understand now my lack of prioritizing her previously, drove her to this point. Not that I deserve all of this, but I don't want to just kick her to the curb now, without at least showing her I am truly different. That way IMO, even if she stays with him when I decide I can no longer do this, she will have a high opinion of me if they do break up thereafter. I may already be with someone else, but then again maybe not.

 

Just curious to know others opinions on this.

 

Thank you

[Arabess]

She has been telling me quite a bit about the OM. What she likes and doesn't like about him.

 

Theoretically, YOU are the OM since she is living with someone else.

 

She isn't married to the guy.....so, why doesn't she just leave him? She isn't leaving because she doesn't want to.

 

I think she is holding out for the first guy who proposes and is willing to have a child with her.

 

I'm not suggesting she is a bad person....she just may have some ulterior motives. They are understandable....but a little manipulative. Either you play HER way.....or you don't play at all. That's not really fair.

 

I wouldn't involve my heart with ANYONE who was sleeping with someone else. Intimacy should be about truth and honesty. Not about 'sharing'.

 

I realize you are looking at this from another angle. It's hard to be objective when your heart is all wrapped up in someone. Often times, people see what they want to see while desperately reading between the lines. It's a dangerous place to be in.....and will lead you into great heartache.

[SoleMate]

My sympathies. It's clear you're suffering a lot.

 

Have you thought at all about the suffering she went through, waiting for you to show your commitment? The pregnancy scare is especially important. (Let's leave aside the fact that a woman with regular periods CANNOT get pregnant the day before her period is due.) A woman fearing unwanted pregnancy is like someone hanging over an abyss by a slender thread, twirling in space. It's about as frightening as impending execution. But you did not comfort her, even with phone calls, and worse yet, you rubbed in the inconvenience of it. It would have been better to say, "Whatever happens, we're together and we will be OK. I love you and we can get through anything. You know, I've realized that a child would actually be pretty terrific now. It just took me a while to realize it, but now I'm thrilled just with the chance. How are you feeling? Talk to me. What can I do to help you right now? Do you need me to come back?"

 

I agree that the suffering guy at home is not likely to get the girl back. You may already have lost her. Your best chance, and I wouldn't bet the rent on it, is to start showing her that you can meet her needs, but that you won't be able to do it when she is not living at home. Be firm, but keep in mind you have things to apologize for too.

 

No "kicking to the curb". Just, "I know I've been wrong, and I hate what I did about not giving you the love and security you need. I believe we can fix this and be even happier than we've ever been, but I need you to come home and stop seeing Mr. X. Are you willing to give this one last try?"

 

A successful relationship means that you meet each other's needs. Try <URL removed> to see what this means in a practical sense. Good luck!

[jmargel]

Also she tells me that she is shacking up with him in order to really find out as much about him as she can, as quickly as she can, for me

 

That is REALLY messed up. She is playing HEAD GAMES with you. It's revenge for the 'hurt' you caused her in the past. Is it right to do this? No, it's not. Also with these letters of yours, etc.. Her mind set is 'I can have Lonely back anytime I want'.

 

This is what you need to do. Not necessarily kick her to the curb but give her the ultamatium. Like Solemate said tell her 'Im only going to ask this once, and I need to know. I love you with all of my heart and I don't want to see a future without you but if you have any desire to be with me now is the time to start working at this as a couple'. Which includes leaving him. Then you need to find a good couple's councilor.

 

If she's still going to be wishy-washy about it, then tell her that you need to start making arrangements in your life that don't include her anymore and tell her she needs to remove all her things from your place.

 

Her telling you about him is her way of just twisting the knife more. You are her pawn, and this relationship has now gone into a power struggle. When that happens, the relationship doesn't last.

[Lonely34]

Arabess is right. Right now I am the OM. She has let me know that in no uncertain terms. It is a difficult concept to swallow.

 

Soulmate you hit it right on the head about the pregnancy scare and how I made her suffer waiting for me to realize that I never made her priority #1. That is why she is with him right now and not me. Despite my best intentions, I didn't treat her as well as I should have. It is why I am currently trying to get her back. Because I know I can treat her better. I did have one phone conversation with her telling her that we will get through this pregnancy together, and we even talked of potential names. But that conversation was very late at night, and I am not sure she remembered it the next day. I have since reminded her of it, but it doesn't seem to matter.

 

I have apologized repeatedly for the things I have done. I have been very specific about what I am apologizing for. I have also tried the lets give this one more try, just come home and lets work on this together. But she will not leave him. She says no one has ever treated her as well as he has, and she is not just going to give that up. However, she does have concerns about his drinking. (apparently he is a binge drinker), he is also an insomniac, (which drove his last fiance to sleep in a separate room, and he is a bit head strong. Most importantly though for her is his indecisiveness about having children. It is of paramount importance to her. She really wants children. Last week he told her that he hates kids. He later said he hates other peoples kids, more specifically kids who are misbehaving in public. This morning he told her he was sterile. She is presuming it is a joke. But she is not entirely sure. At the very least he seems wishy-washy about it.

 

I on the other hand really want to have children. I think she would make a wonderful mother as well. I have watched her with my friends children and she is absolutely wonderful with them. About eight days into our pregnancy scare, I told myself she was pregnant. I really started to like the idea. It has really changed my urgency to have children. (We would wait until we get married to do so.) We do talk about having children together a lot right now. If we get back together.

 

She knows that we will be better if we get back together. I have already shown her enough to convince her of that. What she seems uncertain of, is if it will be better enough. If this OM wasn't making all the right moves to make her happy she would already be back with me. Yet, yesterday she told me it wasn't about him, its about me. I am not exactly sure what she meant by that.

 

She came over today for about 6 hours. We had a decent day together. She didn't want to talk about what she discussed with her parents yet, and she also met with her best friend last night. I am presuming she is still taking that all in, and after our fight yesterday, just wanted to have a relaxing day today. We did that.

 

I don't believe she is seeking revenge on me. I have caused her a lot of pain, but she truly does love me. She tells me that everyday. She hugs me multiple times every time I see her. She still kisses me, somtimes with passion. But she does know that she can have me back any time she wants. I am forced to play by her rules though now, or not at all. That is unfair, but it is the predictament I am in. I have tried setting boundaries for her, but she will accept none from me right now. I guess you could say that I have no backbone for accepting her terms right now. However, I was the one that caused her pain for a long time, and I was the one that drove her to him. If that wasn't true, I would not be taking this crap right now, and if I hadn't realized how ****ty I was to her and apologized for it repeatedly, she would no longer be seeing me at all. She has told me a number of times that "Why did you have to get it now? It would be so much easier if you just never got it."

 

Last week she told me that she wouldn't blame me if I wanted to see someone else. I called another woman that is also a photographer, that I have always had an interest in, but never acted on because of my relationship with my ex/. We talked for about an hour. I told her some of the story, and she told me of how her fiance left her six months ago. We got along extremely well. We set up a time to meet for coffee next week. I told my ex about that the next day. She did not take it very well at all. She told me she wouldn't go through all of this if I there was a chance I was going to be with someone else. Especially someone else that is in my profession, that I would have to see occasionally. I told my ex/girl that I wouldn't see her. Now I am wondering if that is a mistake. I am debating seeing her and not telling my ex. I just think it would be good for me to see if there is another woman out there that is interested in me, and wants the same things I do, that has a lot in common with me. I am very torn on this right now. Plus this new woman seems a bit hesitant, but I think it is more due to the rebound factor than anything.

 

She knows that she is being unfair to both of the men in her life right now. She knows she is being impulsive and selfish. Yet she feels that she was giving of herself throughout our relationship and I wasn't. She feels that it is time to make some decisions with her best interest in mind. I think she feels worse for him than me. As she said he has done nothing to deserve having to split her time with him. I can only argue with that by saying that he encouraged her to move in with him after dating for 10 days. She doesn't really have much for choices for living space outside of him or I right now, so unfortunately its him.

 

I have had thoughts about setting up the OM to make him look bad. Yet, I know deep down I want her to pick me, rather than settle for me by default. However, I am left thinking that no matter what happens that may end up being the case. Unless somehow I am able to prove to her that I am the better man for her. Which, I guess is my intention at this point. Show her the best that I have to offer with the time we have together. Maybe 2-3 more weeks of this. Then, if she hasn't come back, deliver her the ultimatum.

 

I really appreciate the advice you are all giving me. I know I am not following all of it, but it really helps to hear an objective viewpoint.

[Privada]

Having been there...done that...my advice to you is this : stop contacting her. Don't write, don't call and try to move on. If she really loves and truly wants to come back, she will. If she doesn't, she doesn't. But at least, once and for all, you'll know. She is now just using you because you are there and willing to tolerate anything from her.

Good luck.

[southside]

I would use the classic "take-away" if you honestly believes she really loves you. Stay in contact but dont give her any intimate affection, money, gifts, etc. Tell her you ARE going to see other people just as she is. If it will be, it will be.

 

I would dump her in the gutter if she is using you for anything else but love. Does she ask you for money? Does she accept money or gifts from you? Are you a successful (wealthy) man that she can take for a ride? She could also be using the take-away on you.

 

This is a bad situation. By no means would I stop seeing the other woman. You both have a lot in common but watch out, you dont want to be a rebound guy. Unless you want this new woman for physical reasons only.

[Fritz]

She's playing head games with you and it isn't right. I agree with Privada, give her the ultimatium and move on. You can't work on your relationship while she's shacked up with another guy.

[Fedup&givingup]

BIG time head games, and she's getting all the attention. Here's what YOU can do to see for yourself...take her out of her ivory tower (your house) and off your pedestal for TWO days (no talking on the phone, spending "time" together, etc.) and watch her squirm and wriggle. She won't be able to stand it.

 

You mentioned that she said something about if you hadn't all of a sudden shown your willingness to invest in her it wouldn't be so difficult...that's bull. You know that from her reaction to you going on a date with someone else. She's sleeping with someone else every night, using that poor guy to get your goat...and it's working.

 

I realize you love this girl, but she sounds like a manipulating queen. Seriously consider putting her on HOLD for two days and see what happens. I wouldn't be the least bit concerned with what she's going to decide to do with this other guy...btw, I do NOT think you are the "OW", he is. She's using that guy to see how deeply you do care for her. If for any reason she does decide to flock to him in a matter of two days, then she was NOT worthy of your permanent time nor investment.

 

You sound like a great guy that has a wonderful career and doing well for yourself. She's a lot younger than you are. I'm in my early 30's, and when my 30th birthday was my worst ever. Now I am thrilled to NOT be in my 20's, because I feel so much wiser and more mature. She's got a lot of growing to do, and you have a lot to offer someone at your speed. This other woman that you are considering going out with, I most certainly would go if I were you, and do it for you...not to test your ex's level of wanting you still...

[Karlise]

WOW...big time head games.

 

I believe she does have feelings for you...but why is she LIVING with someone if she loves you?

 

I feel sorry for the guy she's living with. They must have some kind of incredible understanding between them or she is lying through her teeth to him.

 

I think she's enjoying the feeling of power. Conciously or unconciously, being able to keep you on a string (after the suffering you inflicted on her) has GOT to feel great.

Just think, with one snap of her finger you're back at her side.

In the meantime, she gets to have fun with another guy.

What a boost to the ego!

 

Look, you've obviously both been through some emotionally wretched time and I'm not saying either of you deserve to hurt.

 

But, and I've said this in other posts, the hallmark of maturity is the ability to make decisions.

 

Stalling....'trying to decide'....keeping people on a string....saying 'I'm confused..I don't know what I want'....are signs of immaturity.

 

Making decisions hurts sometimes.

But we all have to live with a few 'what if's' in our lifetime.

 

Move on.

Tell her in no uncertain times it's time to cut your losses.

Date other people.

Tell her as long as she lives with someone else she should concentrate on that relationship and leave you out of it.

[amerikajin]

She can't even wait until you're married to her before she starts cheating on you.

 

I've seen that happen in two separate cases, and in both, cheating before marriage led to cheating after they were married.

 

Dump her.

[Fedup&givingup]

I echo Amerikajin...she's Trouble.