25 minutes

[tojaz]

Not enough of this, too much of that, chores, money, work, parenting. All the mechanics of married and family life..... and what is quickly becoming a very common cause for ruining relationships. So many people leaving someone they once loved because they feel they missed out on something, missed some grand opportunity by being "Tied" to the person they love.

 

I read that all the time here. Heard it in my own home as well. Makes me have to ask the question, what is it that these people truly value? What constitutes feeling loved in a relationship, and even more important, how do they return it? Thats a question I think all of us need to ask ourselves be it in a relationship, trying to save one, or even having lost one. The answers might surprise you. Is it what you are provided? Does a nice house make you feel loved the most? A well prepared meal? Clean laundry? Is it a mowed lawn or taking out the trash? When you receive a gift, is it the cost thats important? Or is it the thought that went behind it the heart that was put in to it? Really think about it. If someone of the street walked up to you and did these things, would you love them?

 

I think its the more intangible things that mean the most, that have the impact, that make us feel loved. The things we do that mean so much, and even more when we don't even know were doing them. Were not doing them for the response, or to prove something, or because thats our role in the relationship, or its what were expected to do. Its the little things that mean something just to you, but often in the stresses of everyday life, gets lost in translation and is often lost when we describe our relationship to others or were less then pleased with our life, or our spouse. Even more true when an interloper or some other influence is trying so hard to find fault with your partner and with your marriage.

 

This is a subject that recently came up in conversation for me. When did I feel the most loved? It wasn't weekends away, or romantic nights in. It wasn't coming home to a clean house or an elaborate dinner. It wasn't extravagant gifts or even the sweet love notes I now cherish but cant bear to read. I loved all those things and appreciated them to no end and yes I always understood they were done out of love, but what meant the most, was a gesture she probably doesn't know meant anything, all it was...... 25 Minutes!

 

You see, I rise everyday before the sun comes up for my daily commute to work, on the other hand my ex isn't exactly a morning person! She doesn't just sleep, she hibernates! Her job allowed her to do that too, she didn't have to be at work until the sun was warm and the morning rush was long gone. She could easily sleep the morning away at her leisure. Yet every morning when i would rise for work, so would she. 25 Minutes just quietly sipping my coffee, watching the news, cuddled on the couch preparing to start my day. A kiss goodbye and then it was off to my morning commute and she I would imagine headed back to bed. It was a little thing, nothing I had expected of her, I had often reminded her she could stay comfortable in bed while I went about my morning rituals. It always meant a lot to me though, because I always knew that those 25 minutes were just for me.

 

TOJAZ

[PK66]

I think its the more intangible things that mean the most, that have the impact, that make us feel loved. The things we do that mean so much, and even more when we don't even know were doing them. Were not doing them for the response, or to prove something, or because thats our role in the relationship, or its what were expected to do. Its the little things that mean something just to you, but often in the stresses of everyday life, gets lost in translation and is often lost when we describe our relationship to others or were less then pleased with our life, or our spouse. Even more true when an interloper or some other influence is trying so hard to find fault with your partner and with your marriage.

 

 

TOJAZ

 

 

I really love this post TOJAZ. I also think you are sooooo right. It is those little things we do because we know they matter to the other person, and they are done without any expectation of recognition or repayment. That is truley showing a person you love them. For me it is when my DW will walk up for no reason and put her arms around me or rest he head on my shoulder and say nothing. Just for a few moments... No words... No acknowledgement of love... not looking for any affection in return...just a reassuring gesture of affection for no reason than to just show they were thinking of you and wanted to "feel" your presence...

[You Go Girl]

Both those things are so sweet. I relate more to the head on the shoulder than the morning coffee though, as I was often still in bed. Now I feel guilty, umm...not...ummm...maybe...naw.

I completely agree with you Tojaz as to what is important. I also think it is much harder to meet the right person, or recognize the right person, or, even keep the right person.

Find someone with both the same religious values and political values. Those two things are often so difficult for people to agree on, if they can agree on those, maybe, everything else falls into place.

[trippi1432]

Not sure about religious and political views being In agreement for everything to fall into place...but understand the symbolism.

 

It's appreciation...seeing beyond just the role you play....all the things we do as a wife, or a man as a husband...doing laundry, dishes, mowing the yard, letting the dog out...at the end of the day they are things that have to be done whether there is one of you or two of you. It's unfortunate that sometimes those are the only actions in a marriage that seem to be of value...the rest, the real "glue", forgotten or never realized....

 

Tojaz/PK66...thank you for those posts. Something to think about.

[What_Next]

Great post Tojaz. You obviously had a very deep love for your EX.

 

You have obviously also spent a lot of time thinking about what role you had in your divorce.

 

A lesson for those of that have went through the pain of a marriage breaking down.

 

However, to look for that sliver lining can't you look forward and apply what you have learned to your next relationship?

[tojaz]

Both those things are so sweet. I relate more to the head on the shoulder than the morning coffee though, as I was often still in bed. Now I feel guilty, umm...not...ummm...maybe...naw.

I completely agree with you Tojaz as to what is important. I also think it is much harder to meet the right person, or recognize the right person, or, even keep the right person.

Find someone with both the same religious values and political values. Those two things are often so difficult for people to agree on, if they can agree on those, maybe, everything else falls into place.

 

The head on the shoulder was the weekends YGG. Something i learned, is that if your looking for the right person, your never going to find them. People come together by chance. At least thats the way I have always believed. I've met some of the most amazing people, people that have touched my life and changed me for the better. A couple of people on LS fall into that category as a matter of fact, and I have met them all when i wasn't looking for them. Same with my ex.

 

Its an off the rack world. Tailor made doesn't exist, and I tend to like it that way. Makes it so much more special when you find someone that "fits".

 

Great post Tojaz. You obviously had a very deep love for your EX.

 

You have obviously also spent a lot of time thinking about what role you had in your divorce.

 

A lesson for those of that have went through the pain of a marriage breaking down.

 

However, to look for that sliver lining can't you look forward and apply what you have learned to your next relationship?

 

Yes I did WN, wouldn't have married her otherwise, and yes, I think a lot about a lot of things.

 

I'm in no rush for another relationship WN. There is no void I desperately need to fill. While I did cherish being part of something bigger, I'm fine alone because it isn't about the companion ship, or having a partner, being with someone is about the person.

 

I obviously will apply what i have learned to the next one though, we all do. Just the next one hasn't found me yet, so i keep learning.

 

This post is one of several that I have had sitting around awhile. Its about sharing my thoughts with those who are thinking about leaving or those that are going through what I have gone through. Or even people who are in a relationship but could use a reminder of what is really important, rather then seeing so many seeing some definition of love, how it should be, what it is and what is missing, what the rules are. Love, care, and all the other things we cherish in life is defined, one person, one couple, one moment at a time.

 

TOJAZ

[You Go Girl]

The thing I have come to value in people above all else is honest transparency. I despise gaslighting, and all its kin.

I can accept you for who you are--but don't betray me as to who you are.

[What_Next]

YGG, boy how that sounds like what I am feeling!!

 

I find myself yearning truth and openness and honesty. In fact I will have it no other way. I simply will not tolerate dishonesty and deception in my life ever again. If ANYONE brings it into my life they are out of it. No questions asked, no second chances, NOTHING.

[You Go Girl]

YGG, boy how that sounds like what I am feeling!!

 

I find myself yearning truth and openness and honesty. In fact I will have it no other way. I simply will not tolerate dishonesty and deception in my life ever again. If ANYONE brings it into my life they are out of it. No questions asked, no second chances, NOTHING.

 

I'm not here on this planet as an amusement for someone else's ego. Neither are you.

That's a boundary that I will never let be crossed again either. It's maddening.

I inserted that because...I don't care if they make me coffee, I don't care if they put their head on my shoulder, I don't care about the most generous or seemingly caring acts that could be given, IF the honesty is missing. Then I still feel cheated to my very core, no matter how generous in other ways. Guess I started making my response rather personal.

[2.50 a gallon]

Tojaz

 

My friend, from your last post you are almost there. A loving relationship is not something that you can go looking for. It just sort of happens when you are ready.

 

Expect the unexpected when you least expect it, and when it happens, use caution, but not fear, and just let it grow, using the lessons you have learned.

[2sure]

The thing I have come to value in people above all else is honest transparency. I despise gaslighting, and all its kin.

I can accept you for who you are--but don't betray me as to who you are.

 

Thats it. I know my capabilities and my limits...and know that they are almost endless when I love someone. I prefer to love and embrace someone for exactly who they are...and when someone really reveals that to you...its a beautiful thing even if you dont like all of it.

 

The betrayal that is the opposite of honest transparency ...says to me not so much that you have cheated or lied or erred, because sometimes even decent people do those things...but that you have posed as a decent person when even you know you are not.

[redpoppy]

A very touching post Tojaz and one which shows what a great deep thinking guy you are. MM said, if they don't want me when i'm bad, grumpy and not at my best, then they sure as hell ain't getting me when i'm at my best. I like that quote (even if i've not got it right word for word) and it says a lot about unconditional love too. Giving yourself and not expecting anything back is where its at........ We continue to learn from what we've had and lost and are moving forward all the time. Pops

[sumdude]

The thing I have come to value in people above all else is honest transparency. I despise gaslighting, and all its kin.

I can accept you for who you are--but don't betray me as to who you are.

 

Yeah, I find myself feeling the same way a lot since my D. I'll put up with all sorts of things from someone if they're honest with me.

 

But you know there are those people who don't even know who they are so.. they lie to themselves too. Those are the ones that really mess me up because.. you don't know until they snap.

[worlybear]

Tojaz

 

My friend, from your last post you are almost there. A loving relationship is not something that you can go looking for. It just sort of happens when you are ready.

Do you guys really think that it is possible to find another loving relationship? Or is it just wishful thinking?

I can't see that I will ever meet a SO and although I'm lonely, I don't know if I want to. I do go out and meet people in a variety of groups and have been on several "dates" and despite the guys being pleasant and good company I feel absolutely.....nothing.

I just feel exhausted at the thought of getting involved with anyone again and I can't see myself ever being part of a couple.

[tojaz]

I'm not here on this planet as an amusement for someone else's ego. Neither are you.

That's a boundary that I will never let be crossed again either. It's maddening.

I inserted that because...I don't care if they make me coffee, I don't care if they put their head on my shoulder, I don't care about the most generous or seemingly caring acts that could be given, IF the honesty is missing. Then I still feel cheated to my very core, no matter how generous in other ways. Guess I started making my response rather personal.

 

YGG I dont think there are many responses here that don't quickly become personal. Thats what its all about. In my opinion, if the honesty isn't there, then any and all other gestures are fake as well, its just that simple. Nothing that means anything will ever be built on a bed of lies! Not to personal at all. Very telling as a matter of fact.

 

In the couple of weeks she stayed here before she left (yeah that fast) she still got up to sit with me every morning. That was i time I would have wanted any time I could with her, but those times meant nothing, and I almost cringed to see her coming down from the guestroom, because i already knew it was all a lie. The damage had been done.

 

TOJAZ

[2.50 a gallon]

worlybear

 

Not only do I thing it is possible, and not wishful thinking, I have no doubt that Tojaz and many others on this board are going to find somebody new.

 

They say "Nature abhors a vacuum".

 

For example, notice how women especially are reacting to what he is saying. It is inevitable that nature, the winds of love, or what ever you want to call it, is going to find away for Tojaz to cross paths with one who will hear his song.

 

Many of the members who post here, have been through the tuff times, survived the bull chit, and now can recognize something special when they find it.

 

If I my use myself and my current GF as a example, we both had totally given up on love and ever finding someone special again. We both carried around and believed in our facades that we were never going to fall in love again.

 

Yet, somehow nature saw beneath the surface that we connected in so many ways and both of us were ready to love again. We both found each other when we least expected it.

[trippi1432]

The thing I have come to value in people above all else is honest transparency. I despise gaslighting, and all its kin.

I can accept you for who you are--but don't betray me as to who you are.

 

YGG, boy how that sounds like what I am feeling!!

 

I find myself yearning truth and openness and honesty. In fact I will have it no other way. I simply will not tolerate dishonesty and deception in my life ever again. If ANYONE brings it into my life they are out of it. No questions asked, no second chances, NOTHING.

 

I'm not here on this planet as an amusement for someone else's ego. Neither are you.

That's a boundary that I will never let be crossed again either. It's maddening.

I inserted that because...I don't care if they make me coffee, I don't care if they put their head on my shoulder, I don't care about the most generous or seemingly caring acts that could be given, IF the honesty is missing. Then I still feel cheated to my very core, no matter how generous in other ways. Guess I started making my response rather personal.

 

I agree, the lack of honesty can break a marriage, but marriages and people change over time....by my own ex's standards, I am not the same person he claims to have fallen in love with and perhaps he hid his vices in the beginning...those things that became Intolerable. okay...he did hide those vices or maybe I just didn't want to see them.

 

The fact is we are all where we are today...some by their own choosing, some not (infidelity doesn't even get a vote on honesty...already thinking what you have been through W_N...been there too). I guess I could draw a hard line in the sand to create a requirement of what someone has to be, but one thing I have tried to do through all of this Is not become that bitter person. Having lived for so many years with misery from someone who was miserable...life is just too short for that. Some days are more overwhelming than others.

 

Yes, honesty is Important..trust is a hard thing to come by. Look at 2.5 Gallon, he will tell you he spent as much time out of a relationship not trusting as I did in a relationship and still not trusting really.

 

In the end, my ex is just one person in this world and not a benchmark on men in general. There are few good memories to retire to..but it Is truly my hope that there are not more out there just like him and wouldn't even compare him or our life together to anything I encounter. Doing so is just setting yourself up to fail.

 

I guess what spurred this post on is that in the wake of the devastation and anger, we forget who we really are....and we become changed....my hope is that I find the positive side of that...the negative side was already a long road.

[giantfan]

You have all given me someting to think about. I am dying inside. Trying to give my wife another chance after she had an affair for 10 months with an old friend that she reconnected to with facebook. I loved the little things and now I find that they are fake. A hug or a note with my lunch saying I love you was the best. Now 10 months of hell. I hope I could feel what you feel again.

[tojaz]

worlybear

 

Not only do I thing it is possible, and not wishful thinking, I have no doubt that Tojaz and many others on this board are going to find somebody new.

 

They say "Nature abhors a vacuum".

 

For example, notice how women especially are reacting to what he is saying. It is inevitable that nature, the winds of love, or what ever you want to call it, is going to find away for Tojaz to cross paths with one who will hear his song.

 

Many of the members who post here, have been through the tuff times, survived the bull chit, and now can recognize something special when they find it.

 

If I my use myself and my current GF as a example, we both had totally given up on love and ever finding someone special again. We both carried around and believed in our facades that we were never going to fall in love again.

 

Yet, somehow nature saw beneath the surface that we connected in so many ways and both of us were ready to love again. We both found each other when we least expected it.

 

Very well said Gallon!

 

I guess I could draw a hard line in the sand to create a requirement of what someone has to be,

 

Thats a set up for failure right there. Looking for someone who fits the bill, is a waste, the image we concoct is rarely what works, just a fantasy. The best love is discovered as we go along. Usually things we never even thought we could want and then find we were missing out on the whole time.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

but one thing I have tried to do through all of this Is not become that bitter person. Having lived for so many years with misery from someone who was miserable...life is just too short for that. Some days are more overwhelming than others.

 

Yes, honesty is Important..trust is a hard thing to come by. Look at 2.5 Gallon, he will tell you he spent as much time out of a relationship not trusting as I did in a relationship and still not trusting really.

 

In the end, my ex is just one person in this world and not a benchmark on men in general. There are few good memories to retire to..but it Is truly my hope that there are not more out there just like him and wouldn't even compare him or our life together to anything I encounter. Doing so is just setting yourself up to fail.

I guess what spurred this post on is that in the wake of the devastation and anger, we forget who we really are....and we become changed....my hope is that I find the positive side of that...the negative side was already a long road.

 

Just to clarify what you have pointed out from my post Tojaz...personally...I have been blessed. What is behind me is behind me...a year of quiet peace. Blessed with friends who want that for me as well.

 

I have friends with 3 page "requirements" of what a man needs to be in their world....at the end of the day I have one requirement that my ex (by his own admission) couldn't do...Treat me well. The negative that my ex left me with is something I know I have to let go of...underneath that is the person I know I used to be. I think we all have it in us..putting it out there is the scary part.

[You Go Girl]

"Off the rack" no "tailored" people for us to find and find the "right" one...! Love it.

I think what I meant was, we sometimes pick the wrong ones. I agree there's no ONE out there for each of us. But there's definitely some wrong ones!

At the same time, we each have to learn where we have gaps in our understanding. So did we chose a wrong person? Perhaps not. We obviously had something to learn from them.

Ob la di Ob la da

[tojaz]

"Off the rack" no "tailored" people for us to find and find the "right" one...! Love it.

I think what I meant was, we sometimes pick the wrong ones. I agree there's no ONE out there for each of us. But there's definitely some wrong ones!

At the same time, we each have to learn where we have gaps in our understanding. So did we chose a wrong person? Perhaps not. We obviously had something to learn from them.

Ob la di Ob la da

 

Well, I think your right YGG, sometimes people do pick the wrong one. Most of the time though, it seems more common around here at least, that the seams give out or someone else dumps a big glass of wine down the front.

 

TOJAZ

[harrellst]

I had to go find some of your original posts to see what kind of person you are. You have been such a help to me and I appreciate your insite.

 

We do take things for granted in all our relationships. We forget in the everyday to be greatful for the things we have. We have a recently divorced friend and he was here yesterday for a visit. He has been our greatest cheerleader. He tells us all the time when we complain about something the other does to just be glad we have someone to complain about. It is lonely out there and those bumps we go over in the everyday are just a part of life they would we there even if you were married to the presedent or the the king they would just be different.

 

We do all just need to sit back and look at the things we have and be thankful. It could be worse.

[trippi1432]

Well YGG, sometimes we do pick the wrong ones...but we come away with lessons and sometimes the people in our lives that we need. I won't lie and say that I don't regret a thing sometimes, but I wouldn't have my children if my life hadn't happened the way it did. I wouldn't have taken the path I did to get where I am today, and I wouldn't have the dear friends in my life today if things had been different.

 

If you had asked me a year ago, I would have told you that my people-picker was broke...read my threads...being honest here. I know that I have talked about the walls, I put them there with my ex, because showing him the real me was always criticized. Walls are meant to keep people out....in my world, I always thought of walls as something to climb to get to the other side but I know now that I had my own walls that I built to keep the hurt out. (As someone recently told me, those should be healthy and be boundaries.. :o).

 

So, in reverence...."off the rack" or "tailor made"...don't get me started on the fallacy of tailor made. In the end, time to take the little black dress to the dry cleaner to get out that glass of wine that got dumped down the front. (Yeah, I like that analogy Tojaz. )

[tojaz]

I had to go find some of your original posts to see what kind of person you are. You have been such a help to me and I appreciate your insite.

 

We do take things for granted in all our relationships. We forget in the everyday to be greatful for the things we have. We have a recently divorced friend and he was here yesterday for a visit. He has been our greatest cheerleader. He tells us all the time when we complain about something the other does to just be glad we have someone to complain about. It is lonely out there and those bumps we go over in the everyday are just a part of life they would we there even if you were married to the presedent or the the king they would just be different.

 

We do all just need to sit back and look at the things we have and be thankful. It could be worse.

 

Checking up on me! Hope I didn't disappoint. Nothing special, just a guy that learned a lot of things the hard way, but if i was able to help then I'm glad I could.

 

Taking things for granted are a given, we all get into a routine and its amazing the little things you miss once their gone, and its rarely what you'd expect.

 

TOJAZ