Where are all the conflicted MM?

[pureinheart]

I told my MM of this thread. His answer was "We don't want to be eaten alive."

 

I was going to go through and quote the hate replies for an answer to D's OP....but I don't need to, this says it all Jennie...

[D-Lish]

I told my MM of this thread. His answer was "We don't want to be eaten alive."

 

But OW like yourself don't have a problem with being exposed, right?

You've had no trouble telling your story despite some ripping into you.

 

You know if you are going to make a post that people are going to eat you alive as an OW- so why do you post? You are entitled to support just like everyone else. You know when you post that you will come up against anger. You also know you will get support, and I suspect it's the support part of it that keeps you here.

 

I don't buy it. I think that the MM don't find themselves on LS because they are happy where they are, and that's why they sleep at night easier than the rest of us.

[Silly_Girl]

I don't buy it. I think that the MM don't find themselves on LS because they are happy where they are, and that's why they sleep at night easier than the rest of us.

 

Yes. It's clear how you feel.

 

I used to use a brilliant site for fathers having trouble getting contact with their kids. That was a heart-breaking read. Lots of the posters were the wives or girlfriends or sisters or mums or friends of men who so DESPERATELY needed help. But these men didn't know how to access support in that way, weren't used to being so open with strangers, found it hard to admit they had an issue or maybe had done something themselves that made the situation worse, didn't like being forced to trust anonymous strangers... For whatever reason they really couldn't go that route, it wasn't confortable for them. Which was a real shame.

[turnstone]

But OW like yourself don't have a problem with being exposed, right?

You've had no trouble telling your story despite some ripping into you.

 

You know if you are going to make a post that people are going to eat you alive as an OW- so why do you post? You are entitled to support just like everyone else. You know when you post that you will come up against anger. You also know you will get support, and I suspect it's the support part of it that keeps you here.

 

I don't buy it. I think that the MM don't find themselves on LS because they are happy where they are, and that's why they sleep at night easier than the rest of us.

Maybe its a case that women like Jennie know they're going to get the high fives and similar in support of their choices, and they seem to get a payoff from provoking and antagonising the women that call them out, so there's no real downside for them in posting here.

 

However, MM are not only men who don't see that they have a problem that they need to seek help with, but men in general don't need the same social support network that women do, however many times you tell us they're posting all over this site They may need to know how to continue to gaslight and hoodwink in order to not be found out (and we've already seen they've apparently got somewhere to discuss how to do just that), but I suspect that they felt bad enough about having an affair, they wouldn't need a forum to help them get out of it.

[Woman In Blue]

Men/boys/guys, etc- are all over dating, infidelity, second chances forums, etc... But they aren't here as MM having affairs and talking about it.

Quite honestly, they can't be bothered. They've got a good thing going on the side - excitement, sex any time they want it, ego strokes galore, and the fun of thinking they're quite the stud.

 

So what's for them to POST about? They're the ones living a life and a half while their OW are pretty much left on their own for the majority of the time.

 

Men don't waste their time talking about affairs. Most of them are getting exactly what they want from their OW, so what would be the point? Much as an OW doesn't want to admit it, they are NOT a MM's primary relationship even though these guys will lie and tell them they ARE; therefore, these men are not consumed with the affair or trying to get advice from anyone on how to" improve" things. They simply take what they can get from the affair, and then go home to their real lives.

 

I'm sure most MM would rather gouge their eyes out than participate in "sharing their feelings" with a bunch of internet strangers. There ARE exceptions to this rule, but I think most simply appreciate whatever side action they're getting and don't want to complain about it.

 

Women always want to talk about feelings and relationships anyway, so it's only natural that it would be primarily women on an OW/OM board.

[jennie-jennie]

But OW like yourself don't have a problem with being exposed, right?

You've had no trouble telling your story despite some ripping into you.

 

You know if you are going to make a post that people are going to eat you alive as an OW- so why do you post? You are entitled to support just like everyone else. You know when you post that you will come up against anger. You also know you will get support, and I suspect it's the support part of it that keeps you here.

 

I don't buy it. I think that the MM don't find themselves on LS because they are happy where they are, and that's why they sleep at night easier than the rest of us.

 

No, I am not here for the support because there is barely any support to be had. I am here for the discussion. I am here to present a different view on extramarital affairs than most LS posters' to illustrate that there is not only one way to look at these issues. I am here for the posts by a few posters that have helped me understand my situation better.

 

When I first came to LS it was very difficult for me because I received no support, only posts trying to convince me to go NC. When everybody is convinced there is only one way to go, it is difficult to stay true to yourself. But I managed. I read other literature and did not visit LS for a while.

 

I benefit from coming from a different culture than most LS posters, a culture more hedonistic than moralistic. I have always been a rebel and stayed true to my opinions even when I have been the only one holding them. This enabled me to be able to continue posting on LS although my views and morals differ from most.

 

And... the WS are judged much harder than the OW/OM. It is easier for us to feel unapologetic and as we have done no wrong. I ended my previous relationship. I am not having an affair. I am not lying to anyone.

 

The conflicted WS generally feels that he is doing something wrong. Posting on LS and being torn to pieces is not supportful in that context. It doesn't help him find a way out of his dilemma.

[jennie-jennie]

Maybe its a case that women like Jennie know they're going to get the high fives and similar in support of their choices, and they seem to get a payoff from provoking and antagonising the women that call them out, so there's no real downside for them in posting here.

 

When I first started posting on LS I was very unsure how my posts would be received. I felt very different and was uncertain if I would be noticed. It took several months before I received my first positive response, I believe it was from Fallen Angel. The high fives are still far between, whereas the harsh responses are plentiful.

 

There is something to though the liking of stating my differing views. There is an enjoyment in being a rebel, an enjoyment in knowing that all you have to do is be yourself and it will bother people.

 

But my engagement in LS stems in a genuine interest in the dynamics of extramarital affairs, an interest that has arisen from my need to understand the situation I have found myself in, being in a long term EMA.

 

However, MM are not only men who don't see that they have a problem that they need to seek help with, but men in general don't need the same social support network that women do, however many times you tell us they're posting all over this site They may need to know how to continue to gaslight and hoodwink in order to not be found out (and we've already seen they've apparently got somewhere to discuss how to do just that), but I suspect that they felt bad enough about having an affair, they wouldn't need a forum to help them get out of it.

Men don't ask for help. They fix things. Themselves. My MM still believes he is capable of solving the limbo situation he is in without help.

[Taramere]

A long time ago, a friend of my father's was cheating on his wife. He confided his problem to my father on the golf course - purely because it had reached that stage where the OW (also a friend of his wife's) was pressurising him to leave his wife. Whether she (the OW) was in love with him I have no idea. My guess is that she envied the lifestyle that she'd seen her friend, his wife, having for all those years - and wanted it for herself.

 

My father returned home with the gossip "this is strictly private and not to be repeated, but...". My mother's response was to blank it out and say that she never wanted to hear about the matter again. The topic was a forbidden one around her. I, on the other hand, wanted to hear more about it - and my father was happy to oblige.

 

What I gleaned was that X, his friend, regarded the affair as a bit of fun. He was worried that if he ended the affair her spiteful side would come to the fore and she would create all kinds of trouble. His wife, he believed, was conscious of the affair but prepared to tolerate it so long as it wasn't exposed in a way that would require her to respond to it. She still attended social functions that featured the OW and her (the OW's) husband, and invited both to parties they held...but obviously there was a frost between her and the OW.

 

It's probably not a typical situation in that most men aren't in the financial position this guy was in. He was a cheerful and really very nice, generous guy to be around but felt he could do what the hell he wanted ...and was generally correct in that perception. His conflict, as he presented it to my Dad, was that he wanted to protect his family from any embarrassment ensuing from the vitriolic way the OW might behave when he ended the affair.

 

Although my dad disapproved of the affair (and thought that his friend was insane to get entangled with "that hard-faced hoor" in the first place) he wasn't being asked for a moral perspective. He was being asked "how do I get myself out of this spot?" So he gave advice that was geared to the question. That advice was that his friend should remind the OW that her life of social climbing was largely dependent on the goodwill of him and his wife. That if she pushed the matter, she'd get frozen out and would stop benefiting from the social connections she had courtesy of him and his wife.

 

It's advice which, as far as I know, the friend followed. Can't really imagine it being the sort of advice that would be dispensed on this board though. Even harder to imagine is the prospect of that guy ever logging onto the Internet and asking a bunch of strangers for advice on such a matter.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Taramere

[threebyfate]

I would hazard to guess that more often than not, the MMs aren't hurting in either or both of the financial and looks departments. Otherwise, what would be the incentive for OWs to get into affairs?

 

Also, why would MMs come to LS? Beyond, as Taramere mentions, being pressured by the OW to make their "relationship" official, all their needs and more are being met by two women.

 

Happy people don't come to LS, although some happy people stayed on LS, after their initial trauma. But most have split or have reduced their posting to very minimal amounts since LS is not a happy place.

[Woggle]

The MM have eactly what they want which is a loving wife at home and a piece on the side. They are not hurting unlike MW who want to divorce because their married boss smiled at them.

[WTFBBQ]

Well, I have been trying my hardest to find even one conflicted MM. I thought for sure I had one last night, but no...

Turns out he didn't have enough cash.

[pureinheart]

But OW like yourself don't have a problem with being exposed, right?

You've had no trouble telling your story despite some ripping into you.

 

You know if you are going to make a post that people are going to eat you alive as an OW- so why do you post? You are entitled to support just like everyone else. You know when you post that you will come up against anger. You also know you will get support, and I suspect it's the support part of it that keeps you here.

 

I don't buy it. I think that the MM don't find themselves on LS because they are happy where they are, and that's why they sleep at night easier than the rest of us.

 

I would have to disagree based on much experience, even though I was in a triangle only once, I saw MANY A's taking place all of my life.

 

I have to say it was the women who were more at ease than their MM...their MM hated their situation...and I know, I know...if they hate so bad why stay...I wish I had the time to communicate each situation and why...they did hate it and were conflicted...

 

Most of the MM burn up with jealousy wondering what their AP is doing. All of them I knew were in love with their AP.

 

I know it is common belief that the MM goes home and has a wonderful, loving evening with their W's, sort of like one of those old movies...nope, quite the opposite. The MM is usually miserable and tormented.

 

Actually I think it is easier on the OW (some may not agree as it can feel much worse as they have painted this wonderful picture of MM's home life).

 

In my personal experience, exDM went through hell and most of the men I know wouldn't communicate on a site like this, Most of them get enough fighting and bickering at home, they don't need to come to a web site and do it too.

 

If you notice, the majority of men on this site are extremely reasonable. Most men don't like to fight and can't deal with the negativity.

 

D, my best friend and I were stuck in a room that was about 1000 sq ft...with 20-30 pissed off, negative, judgemental women....OMG, we begged our supervisor to put us out on the floor.

 

After working with hundereds of men very closely, I can say with confidence they are not content, they just don't want to hear anymore crap.

[pureinheart]

When I first started posting on LS I was very unsure how my posts would be received. I felt very different and was uncertain if I would be noticed. It took several months before I received my first positive response, I believe it was from Fallen Angel. The high fives are still far between, whereas the harsh responses are plentiful.

 

There is something to though the liking of stating my differing views. There is an enjoyment in being a rebel, an enjoyment in knowing that all you have to do is be yourself and it will bother people.

 

But my engagement in LS stems in a genuine interest in the dynamics of extramarital affairs, an interest that has arisen from my need to understand the situation I have found myself in, being in a long term EMA.

 

Men don't ask for help. They fix things. Themselves. My MM still believes he is capable of solving the limbo situation he is in without help.

 

Bold says why (also) we don't see MM on LS.

 

Jennie I'd like to take this opportunity to say somthing that I have thought for quite sometime in responding to your 2nd paragraph...I have never been able to figure out why most want to change you.

 

Thread after thread, pages and pages of you answering each and every poster...multiple posters condemning and some REALLY mean and rude, yet you still carried yourself so well.

 

I have concluded that there are many that if they can't control a persons views, then the next course of action is the attempt to button push with demeaning comments.

 

I like YOU how you are, not what I think I can turn you into:)

[jennie-jennie]

Bold says why (also) we don't see MM on LS.

 

Jennie I'd like to take this opportunity to say somthing that I have thought for quite sometime in responding to your 2nd paragraph...I have never been able to figure out why most want to change you.

 

Thread after thread, pages and pages of you answering each and every poster...multiple posters condemning and some REALLY mean and rude, yet you still carried yourself so well.

 

I have concluded that there are many that if they can't control a persons views, then the next course of action is the attempt to button push with demeaning comments.

I like YOU how you are, not what I think I can turn you into

 

Thanks, honey! You just made my morning!

[pureinheart]

Maybe its a case that women like Jennie know they're going to get the high fives and similar in support of their choices, and they seem to get a payoff from provoking and antagonising the women that call them out, so there's no real downside for them in posting here.

 

However, MM are not only men who don't see that they have a problem that they need to seek help with, but men in general don't need the same social support network that women do, however many times you tell us they're posting all over this site They may need to know how to continue to gaslight and hoodwink in order to not be found out (and we've already seen they've apparently got somewhere to discuss how to do just that), but I suspect that they felt bad enough about having an affair, they wouldn't need a forum to help them get out of it.

 

I find this statement (bold) rather intriguing....most set out to "beat up" the few that are currently in A's, especially Jennie.

 

The statement that you made (bold again) says to me that you (and I have seen this "tone" many times) don't think she should post in a forum that is specifically for those who find themselves with an otherwise committed partner....there should not be a downside at all.

 

Quite frankly, I would hate to see some of these mens homelives based on how I see some of the women talk to others in here, it's a wonder why there aren't more A's. I used to know a guy who literally hid on his roof top because his W was so unreasonable and abusive.

Edited October 12, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Bitlost2]

What do people think about this?

I just posted in another forum that MM having affairs are content- and content people don't seek counsel- is that a fair statement, or is it something else?

 

We can't deny that an overwhelming majority of posters in this sub-forum are female... Why is that?

 

I think you said it there! My MM/xMM sees nothing really wrong with what he is/was doing. He's unhappy and is trying to make himself happier in anyway he can. He keeps all the bad stuff in his own head and wouldn't need to share here about the mess he's made of the women in his life's lives!

[turnstone]

I find this statement (bold) rather intriguing....most set out to "beat up" the few that are currently in A's, especially Jennie.

 

The statement that you made (bold again) says to me that you (and I have seen this "tone" many times) don't think she should post in a forum that is specifically for those who find themselves with an otherwise committed partner....there should not be a downside at all.

 

The statement, "women like Jennie", sounds extremely condscending.

 

Quite frankly, I would hate to see some of these mens homelives based on how I see some of the women talk to others in here, it's a wonder why there aren't more A's. I used to know a guy who literally hid on his roof top because his W was so unreasonable and abusive.

 

Your post goes a long way to demonstrate the sort of behaviour I'm talking about, especially your last paragraph, which is a huge over-reaction never mind the overt attempt to insult. You have also reached the wrong conclusions about much of my opinion. At least from what I understand of your post.

 

Defensive OW, attacking all and any BS, as you have just done, seemingly unable to distinguish them from the BS of the MM they are involved with, are unpleasant and create what I believe is an unhealthy atmosphere for the OW who are more realistic and genuinely want support in ending their affair or dealing with it. Neither Jennie nor those like her either want that support or offer it, and seem to actively post in contradiction when others seek or provide it, only posting to justify their own affair again and again and again.

 

There are many OW who are currently with a MM and who have no intention of ending the affair, to whom I feel compassion and concern. I have given them my support and my SOP has never been to tell them, or even encourage them, to finish their relationship. The difference is, those OW conduct themselves here without vitriol and don't make things personal with the BS on this site, even when those BS are hurting at the hands of their H and an OW just like them.

Edited October 11, 2010 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[WTFBBQ]

I was out dancing the night away with a few friends. No conflicted MM at the club. Trust me, I looked very hard.

 

Then we went to a cigar bar. I knew there had to be a few there. I mean, come on! Nope, not a one.

 

Then, we went to eat, ya know, eat great even late? And there he was! A conflicted MM! I was so happy to finally find one, I wanted to give him a big 'ol bear hug! Furrowed brow, slumped shoulders, slightly depressed look. It had to be him!

 

Nope, sorry. He couldn't decide if he wanted the single item or the combo meal. Kinda ironic, ain't it? MM always want the combo meal!

 

I am determined to continue my search. I even got a couple a gal pals on it!

[Pillow]

Men don't ask for help. They fix things. Themselves. My MM still believes he is capable of solving the limbo situation he is in without help.

 

This doesn't reconcile the fact that it's rarely ever the MM who chooses. For the most part, either the BS plays a hand or the OW quits the game. The WS is forced a hand in most situations, sorrowfolly.

 

The reason why there are no conflicted WS (both men & women) is because cheating not only requires physical and emotional deception, but mental. One has to believe the world they have created, and going onto an internet forum of non-believers, would burst the bubble and hurt the illusion. If the WS has a lick of goodness, he/she would know their actions are not commendable and selfish, and having people point that out would make it even more real to them, breaking their mental self-delusion.

[donnamaybe]

I don't buy it. I think that the MM don't find themselves on LS because they are happy where they are, and that's why they sleep at night easier than the rest of us.

And some don't NEED to be on LS to salve any guilty conscience they might possess because their AP makes excuses for them IRL.

[Spark1111]

This doesn't reconcile the fact that it's rarely ever the MM who chooses. For the most part, either the BS plays a hand or the OW quits the game. The WS is forced a hand in most situations, sorrowfolly.

 

The reason why there are no conflicted WS (both men & women) is because cheating not only requires physical and emotional deception, but mental. One has to believe the world they have created, and going onto an internet forum of non-believers, would burst the bubble and hurt the illusion. If the WS has a lick of goodness, he/she would know their actions are not commendable and selfish, and having people point that out would make it even more real to them, breaking their mental self-delusion.

 

Great post Pillow!

 

Yes, the necessary component is extreme compartmentalization. It works well when leading a conflicted double life, I think.

 

It works even better when one person in the triangle has compassion for your conflicts and enables the continued compartmentalization.

 

So why in the world would you post to a jury of your peers of how happy you are having both a BS and OW/OM, when there is buckshot to be be aimed at you?

 

That WOULD burst those compartments you so desperately need to continue your lifestyle.

 

It only works when you can keep it all secret, except from your AP who believes all your reasons for doing so.

[joey66]

Hello all. I haven't posted here in a while, but I still lurk occasionally. But when I saw this thread, well I just had to respond. As many of you know, I am MM. So maybe I am qualified to address the original question.

 

Let me start by saying that while I have skimmed the entire thread, I certainly have not read each post thoroughly. Forgive me if I missed something.

 

Where are all the conflicted MM? I don't know the answer to that. I would humbly suggest that nobody else here does, either. My best guess is exactly what Jennie-Jennie's MM said, "We don't want to be eaten alive."

 

And this thread provides some good examples of exactly that phenomenon.

 

Disclaimer: I know that I have taken bits and pieces from posts. I understand that the parts I have quoted do not necessarily represent the overall attitude or opinion of the poster. My goal is not to pick on anyone. I am just presenting a small sampling of the kinds of things that are said about MMs. I also understand that there are posts in this thread that give MMs the benefit of the doubt. But those are fewer in number.

 

The men are on the relationship sights or checking out porn - watching tv .. and out looking for women ..

 

Women are more communicative than men .. and apparently they don't take the affairs as lightly as men do.

 

First, sorry dIC. I'm not trying to pick on you. But the suggestion that men take affairs lightly and women don't is just crap. Some men take things lightly and some don't. Some women take things lightly and some don't.

 

They're getting what they want, why would they?

 

What exactly is it that these MM are getting? And why are the women involved in these As not getting whatever it is?

 

A second thought I had is that probably a lot of the MMs aren't out there seeking a relationship, they want NSA therefore when it's over, it's OVER. That way it's a clean cut. They followed their urges rather than their feelings. So, there's no emotional toil, just done.

 

Men follow their urges and not their feelings? What urges exactly, and what feelings am I ignoring?

 

I dont think many of them are conflicted at all. They want both. The main conflict is how to get that, and how to keep both happy as long as possible.

 

Conflicted married men live in Neverland with Peter Pan. They are his lost boys. They spend their days interacting with pirates, mermaids, indians and fairies. They don't have internet access there.

 

I am a card-carrying member of the Conflicted MM Club and I most definitely have internet access.

 

On any given night, it's often women either supporting one another or fighting with one another... Where are the dudes causing this havoc? Sleeping soundly is my guess.

 

So it's the MM in As that are causing the havoc? Surely the OWs are just a havoc-causing.

 

They may need to know how to continue to gaslight and hoodwink in order to not be found out (and we've already seen they've apparently got somewhere to discuss how to do just that), but I suspect that they felt bad enough about having an affair, they wouldn't need a forum to help them get out of it.

 

Men don't ask for help. They fix things. Themselves. My MM still believes he is capable of solving the limbo situation he is in without help.

 

Somebody help me, PLEASE.

 

The MM have eactly what they want which is a loving wife at home and a piece on the side. They are not hurting unlike MW who want to divorce because their married boss smiled at them.

 

Well, I have been trying my hardest to find even one conflicted MM.

 

Joey raises his hand. Search over.

 

Hmmm, let me see if I understand. The frequency of MM on LS is low, and the frequency of posts in this thread (for example) in support of MM is also low. Coincidence? I'm just askin'.

 

But then, I'm just a cake-eating, havoc-causing MM.

 

For the record, I like and respect all of you. Well, most of you anyway.

 

Love, joey

[In_Repair]

OP, a description of this forum, and it's intent, is located towards the top of your page:

 

"The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner."

 

No mention of a WS anywhere...

 

 

As far as idea goes that a WS would "be eaten alive"... this IS an internet forum. Nobody is going to turn this into a physical fight or turn to legal action or anything, so our only tools here are our words. If you actually believe that you are correct regarding your choices, why fear what others would say about it? If the average WS had a leg to stand on and could muster anything besides the rubbish their starry-eyed AP believes, they wouldn't have to worry about being "eaten alive"... now would they?

Edited October 11, 2010 by In_Repair
...

[donnamaybe]

What exactly is it that these MM are getting? And why are the women involved in these As not getting whatever it is?

They are getting two women in thier life. The women often aren't getting what they want because they mistakenly believe that their MM is different and that they are JUST "conflicted" and will eventually leave their M for their OW, even though some have already been hanging on year after year after year after year after year waiting.

[Circular]

Men follow their urges and not their feelings? What urges exactly, and what feelings am I ignoring?

 

 

Joey, I'm actually an MM and a conflicted one at that.

 

You actually turned my words around slightly. I said 'probably a lot of MMs arent out there seeking a relationship'. Meaning I know there are plenty of guys that just go for it because the OW is open to it and it can be easier to just cut loose when it's over. I didn't say 'All' and my reference was to men that are avoiding emotional attachment.