Where are all the conflicted MM?

[Ariadne]

Why would the MM come to LS to write about the affair?

 

Then the wife is going to find the thread sooner or later and read the whole thing.

[JamesM]

I guarantee that after a few posts, most MMs learn that they are considered the scum of the earth here on LS.

 

Having defended the possible reasons why someone would cheat and offering suggestions that BSs are not completely innocent, the venom and anger generated by those comments have convinced me that if I were to have an affair and actually was looking for true feedback, then I doubt I would find it here.

 

Yet if a cheating woman posts here, there does tend to be more sympathy...not alot but still there is more.

 

I wonder why.

 

My guess is that MM are viewed more as cake eaters who choose an affair for simply the physical sex, while MW tend to choose an affair for something emotional lacking at home. Somehow this is viewed with more sympathy than is the man who wants sex outside of his marriage. And MM in affairs really are not looking for a long term relationship, while many of the MWs are.

 

When it comes to OMs and OWs. I think they do get more sympathy. However, they get more sympathy because it is assumed that their MMs/MWs will be lying about everything. But the OW/OM is simply following some romantic fantasy...so it is assumed.

 

Assumption...MM choose affairs so that they can have variety and spice that one woman cannot provide. Reality is....MM choose affairs for many reasons, and most are not because of sex.

 

Coming here serves no good purpose for an MM. It only means that he has told everyone who reads the thread he started. He will receive no advice outside of "You scumbag. Tell your wife so she can get someone who really appreciates her" type response. And as Ariadne said....

Why would the MM come to LS to write about the affair?

 

Then the wife is going to find the thread sooner or later and read the whole thing.

[In_Repair]

My guess is that MM are viewed more as cake eaters who choose an affair for simply the physical sex, while MW tend to choose an affair for something emotional lacking at home. Somehow this is viewed with more sympathy than is the man who wants sex outside of his marriage. And MM in affairs really are not looking for a long term relationship, while many of the MWs are.

 

When it comes to OMs and OWs. I think they do get more sympathy. However, they get more sympathy because it is assumed that their MMs/MWs will be lying about everything. But the OW/OM is simply following some romantic fantasy...so it is assumed.

 

Assumption...MM choose affairs so that they can have variety and spice that one woman cannot provide. Reality is....MM choose affairs for many reasons, and most are not because of sex.

 

Of course the women get more sympathy.. most of the members in this forum are female. Are you really that surprised that women tend to be more sympathetic towards women? Even women who have never cheated and hate the very idea of it can relate to some other chick going on and on about how their husband sucks and how they can feel trapped, at times, in their marriages. Haven't you ever laughed at, and somewhat related to, all of the sexist jokes that you might hear from a male comic regarding his wife?... while your wife sits there rolling her eyes?

 

OM/OW do get more sympathy, and it is because of the assumptions you talk about. What is wrong with that? Don't you assume that the sun will come up tomorrow? If you have never participated in an affair as an OW/OM who actually did/does expect and hope for the relationship to progress, and eventually turn into an exclusive thing, then you wouldn't understand. If you do decide to have that affair, for sexual reasons, then please don't let your AP believe it is about anything other than sex. Come back here and tell us about that one, because believe it or not, you would be in a very small minority. In most cases men DO initially cheat just for sex, and things get complicated when their OW want more. He either has to lie and make her believe that he wants more, or he has to end the relationship. His decision usually depends on how many other OW he might have lined up at the time, or how close his wife is to discovery. This dynamic is completely independent of any emotional ties he might have developed for his AP. She still isn't the mother of his children and she isn't the one taking care of his ass when he needs it. In most cases, that is still his wife's role. His AP is his outlet. It's easier to replace the AP. Most APs get fed the lies though and keep hanging on in hopes that it does go further. Sometimes it does, most times it doesn't.

[Owl]

Most people come to forums like LS initially because they want something in their situation to change.

 

Many can't even admit to themselves that this is why they came, but if you look/think about it, it's what they're hoping to have happen in their situation.

 

They come here because they want to figure out how to initiate that change.

 

MM don't come here because most of the time they're not looking for change. They like the status quo...and if you're satisified with where you're at, there's no reason to go looking for a forum like LS. They're looking for ways to keep things going the way that they are, not looking for ways to change and potentially upset that delicate balancing act.

 

Those few that DO come here typically don't stay, for the reasons already cited. They feel attacked/villified...by all sides. BS's tell them that they need to end the affair and confess or they're evil...OW tell them that they have to be in love with their affair partner, or else shred them for being horrible men.

 

So why would we expect to see MM here again?

[secretlady76]

From what I see, as a MW:

 

'Unattached' OM/OW get sympathy from most people.

 

MW/MM get little sympathy from anyone apart from each other. Most people think they're scum.

 

MW/MM in relations with MM/MW are a rare species on here and many don't know what to do or say to them so they kind of fall under the radar.

[Confused4Now]

From what I see, as a MW:

 

'Unattached' OM/OW get sympathy from most people.

 

MW/MM get little sympathy from anyone apart from each other. Most people think they're scum.

 

MW/MM in relations with MM/MW are a rare species on here and many don't know what to do or say to them so they kind of fall under the radar.

Pretty true statement. When I was the MM with my MW the first two years....I didn't get much sympathy from anyone. The minute I took action and filed for my Divorce I soon become the OM. Things changed...people saw that I made a choice and took action. People will give props and be sympathetic to the person who finally did the work to get out. 3 years after I left xMW did nothing and still is right where she wanted to be.

[UntoldStory]

Conflicted MM are men who internalize everything. If they knew how to seek help for their issues they would not be MM in affairs in the first place. They would be either wholely in their marriages or in the midst of a divorce; not struggling internally with the ramifications of each choice.

 

I love this! Great post.

[donnamaybe]

Conflicted MM are men who internalize everything. If they knew how to seek help for their issues they would not be MM in affairs in the first place. They would be either wholely in their marriages or in the midst of a divorce; not struggling internally with the ramifications of each choice.

Ah, yes. Poor, poor MM. So helpless they can't do a thing for themselves, even when they ID that there is a problem.

 

Sorry. I'm just not buyin' it. PARTICULARLY with MM who dangle two women on their string for years.

[xxoo]

Conflicted MM are men who internalize everything. If they knew how to seek help for their issues they would not be MM in affairs in the first place. They would be either wholely in their marriages or in the midst of a divorce; not struggling internally with the ramifications of each choice.

 

It is difficult for me to understand how a person so helpless could get it together enough to pursue an EMR.

 

I also think it is important to acknowledge that refusing to make a choice is making a choice.

[woinlove]

Yeah, that's a good one. All the poor conflicted MM who just want monogamy and don't know how to get it!

[greengoddess]

Yeah, that's a good one. All the poor conflicted MM who just want monogamy and don't know how to get it!

 

:laugh: come on you have to have sympathy for some poor guy who has a wife and kids at home and then a little work wifey catering to his every ego boost. It has to be a tough conflicted life you know.

[jthorne]

Pretty true statement. When I was the MM with my MW the first two years....I didn't get much sympathy from anyone. The minute I took action and filed for my Divorce I soon become the OM. Things changed...people saw that I made a choice and took action. People will give props and be sympathetic to the person who finally did the work to get out. 3 years after I left xMW did nothing and still is right where she wanted to be.

I can answer that. You got more sympathy when you filed because your W was no longer part of the equation. She was no longer the one who was living a lie, not knowing her H was cheating on her. So any pain you bring, you now bring upon yourself only. Not meant to be a slam, just an explanation. It's bad enough when one person is being lied to, even worse when there are two.

[2sure]

Its hard for me to believe that so many people who pay mortgages, have jobs, make huge decisions both at home and at work, belong to organizations, vote, drive cars, send their kids to college, see doctors, deal with family crisis such as illness, financial issues, 401Ks, stock options, go to a church, teach their family values, read the paper, console friends ....

 

Are so emotionally conflicted about whether or not they should have get a divorce or have an affair. Its not that big of a deal to get a divorce, most people do it once or twice. Its not hard to decide to not sacrifice your family and your integrity by doing something as selfish and deceitful as having an affair. Many people have open marriages.

 

Why is it that the emotional conflict and turmoil that they just cant seem to get the help they need for ....is only and specifically for something they know the right way to handle but its too hard for them? Difficult decisions are made by most people every single day.

 

You choose to have integrity or you choose not to. If you choose not to, dont call it emotional turmoil.

[donnamaybe]

You choose to have integrity or you choose not to. If you choose not to, dont call it emotional turmoil.

Exactly! However, some folks like to call it "emotional turmoi" or the like. It keeps the "poor poor MW/MM" persona intact.

[Confused4Now]

I can answer that. You got more sympathy when you filed because your W was no longer part of the equation. She was no longer the one who was living a lie, not knowing her H was cheating on her. So any pain you bring, you now bring upon yourself only. Not meant to be a slam, just an explanation. It's bad enough when one person is being lied to, even worse when there are two.

Yes you are completely right and even though I have removed myself from my xMW life....I still believe she still living the lie.

[JamesM]

Again, reading through these posts as many do before registering would be enough to convince any man or woman in an affair that there will be little sympathy or helpful (and caring) advice given here on LS.

 

I actually understand why someone who has been betrayed or who has such disgust for those who are cheating, would have a difficult time objectively responding to cheaters. But the point is that LS is supposed to provide a "safe haven" for everyone...even those with whom we disagree.

 

It is not so much that someone will hear advice that is the opposite of what they want to hear, but it is more about how they will be ridiculed and put down for revealing that they are in an affair. It is not WHAT is said but HOW it is said.

[donnamaybe]

Again, reading through these posts as many do before registering would be enough to convince any man or woman in an affair that there will be little sympathy or helpful (and caring) advice given here on LS.

 

I actually understand why someone who has been betrayed or who has such disgust for those who are cheating, would have a difficult time objectively responding to cheaters. But the point is that LS is supposed to provide a "safe haven" for everyone...even those with whom we disagree.

 

It is not so much that someone will hear advice that is the opposite of what they want to hear, but it is more about how they will be ridiculed and put down for revealing that they are in an affair. It is not WHAT is said but HOW it is said.

Let's see if I can put some perspective on this with an analogy:

 

There is this gal at my office - our receptionist. I've spoken of her on LS from time to time.

 

She has the most dysfunctional family dynamics, and she drives nearly all of them. She enables her adult son (38 years old) by letting him use HER car which she pays insurance on, paying his cell phone bill, and letting him live with her while he spends any of his disposable income on partying instead of saving for a place to live or *gasp* paying his own bills. He constantly gets involved with the types of people, including his GF's, who bring unlimited drama and, at one time, police intervention which actually involved my co-worker who wound up going to the slammer for a short time. Similarly, the co-worker involves HERSELF with the types of men who are there for a place to live. They sober up in time for work, but that's about it.

 

After listening to three years of her problems and trying to give her pep talks and telling her about her positive attributes and reminding her that she's paid off her own house - ALL on her own - and that she does not have to take this crap off people, she continues to take it, yet also continues to whine about it. Now none of us want to hear about it any more. She's made her own bed. Now she just has to lie in it since she refuses to do anything to change her situation.

[2sure]

Ridicule and put downs are out of place, not helpful & unintelligent.

 

I would think that everyone on here has come and continues to come because they have relationship questions or issues that they are struggling with or want to explore. It is an "interpersonal relationship center" forum.

 

For those that come here because they are part of a relationship problem stemming from somone's or their own infidelity...I would think that honest opinions and viewpoints, sympathetic or not, would be part of that exploration.

 

For the WS that come here because they have issue with their actions...if it is after an affair - it is not hard to be empathetic.

But for those involved in an affair, here because it certainly is an issue, but not a big enough one to stop or change...

 

Whats the giving thing to do?? How is support best offered and by whom?

[woinlove]

Again, reading through these posts as many do before registering would be enough to convince any man or woman in an affair that there will be little sympathy or helpful (and caring) advice given here on LS.

 

I actually understand why someone who has been betrayed or who has such disgust for those who are cheating, would have a difficult time objectively responding to cheaters. But the point is that LS is supposed to provide a "safe haven" for everyone...even those with whom we disagree.

 

It is not so much that someone will hear advice that is the opposite of what they want to hear, but it is more about how they will be ridiculed and put down for revealing that they are in an affair. It is not WHAT is said but HOW it is said.

 

We've heard the view that many are not so conflicted and the view that they are so conflicted they can't seek help, but if your view is they want to seek help on an anonymous forum and are scared away from LS, do you think they post elsewhere?

 

I would think MM would be more afraid of leaving a trail by posting, than they would be of being chiding by some BS. Also, their time must be limited since they are already dealing trying to find time for the OW and stay in contact with her.

[donnamaybe]

The view by some of SOME MM/MW is that they do not WANT help. If they actually GOT help (real professional help), they might make some progress which would mean they no longer have an excuse to continue the A.

 

If someone REALLY wanted serious help, they wouldn't come to an internet forum of lay persons.

[jennie-jennie]

The view by some of SOME MM/MW is that they do not WANT help. If they actually GOT help (real professional help), they might make some progress which would mean they no longer have an excuse to continue the A.

If someone REALLY wanted serious help, they wouldn't come to an internet forum of lay persons.

 

Strange comment.

 

I was treated long term for a serious illness. The doctors did not provide me with the newest cutting edge information and the emotional support I needed, so I was a member of a very helpful medical internet forum community throughout the entire treatment.

 

Being part of a love triangle, I think it is much easier to (at least at first) seek help on an internet forum where you do not need to reveal your identity, you do not need to make an appointment, there is no cost involved. Here you could be able to gather information to understand that you need counseling for example. It could be a first step.

 

We all know the power of the 12 step program. These groups consist only of lay persons. There is power in associating with those with a similar issue as you.

[Star_Bright]

 

If someone REALLY wanted serious help, they wouldn't come to an internet forum of lay persons.

 

I disagree with you. Not everyone has health insurance and/or can afford counseling. When I first came to LS I had lost my job due to my A with ex MM. I really wanted counseling but didn't have insurance. Now I have a newish job but my insurance hasn't started yet. I am anxiously awaiting November 1st so I can get professional help. But in the meantime I am finding a lot of help on LS.

 

And I know of some people IRL who didn't find counseling very helpful and I can imagine that some people find an anonymous Internet forum more helpful to them because they want a variety of advice or they are not ready to bare their soul to a real live person, even if it's a counselor, or just the stigma of going to counseling scares them. Does it mean they don't want to or can't change? Maybe. But if they find LS more helpful than counseling, then more power to them, and I don't think we can say that if they really wanted help they'd be seeing a professional. "Help" comes in different forms (talking to friends or family, journaling, meditating, prayer/religion, online support groups, real life support groups, counseling, etc.) That's what I believe anyway.

[Star_Bright]

I agree. I think they don't want to be told what to do or how to act.

 

By this reasoning an MM/MW would go to counseling before they would post an Internet forum. Because a counselor from what I understand doesn't tell you what to do or how to act. People on LS sure do tell other people what to do and how to act!

[Star_Bright]

Strange comment.

 

I was treated long term for a serious illness. The doctors did not provide me with the newest cutting edge information and the emotional support I needed, so I was a member of a very helpful medical internet forum community throughout the entire treatment.

 

Being part of a love triangle, I think it is much easier to (at least at first) seek help on an internet forum where you do not need to reveal your identity, you do not need to make an appointment, there is no cost involved. Here you could be able to gather information to understand that you need counseling for example. It could be a first step.

 

We all know the power of the 12 step program. These groups consist only of lay persons. There is power in associating with those with a similar issue as you.

 

Exactly -- I agree and this is what I meant by saying I disagree with the implication that the only way to get serious help is to go see a professional. There are many other ways. If someone wants to change, they will change no matter what method of help they seek, and if someone doesn't want to change, they won't, no matter what method. (My ex MM was going to counseling and I read of many other MMs in IC and MC -- who are still continuing with the affair! So who's to say professional counseling is helping them or that they are going because they really want to change??)

[jennie-jennie]

If someone REALLY wanted serious help, they wouldn't come to an internet forum of lay persons.

 

Do not underestimate the power and potential of internet communities.