He was telling the truth the whole time

[LucreziaBorgia]

Karma, for whatever reason he needs his wife. He also needs you. I don't see any intention on his part to let either of you go. If he is forced, it will be his wife that he keeps.

 

I'm telling you, those two are addicted to each other in a very unhealthy way and no amount of offers for genuine love and affection from the outside are going to break the spell these two have over each other.

 

Have you seen this article? Take a look and see what you think.

 

TOW dipper

 

I think both MM and his W are 'dippers'.

[Mimolicious]

My question is: When is Child Services getting involved??

 

Seriously, I understand that the adults in this situation are buried in their own drama. What is going on with the kids?????? Who is really looking out for their best interest???

 

:o

[KarmasTestDummy]

Karma, what I am about to say, I am saying both from a base of

personal experience AND with kindness and concern.

 

I grew up in a home where there was drug and alcohol abuse, emotional abuse, craziness (real), and violence. I married a man who was an abuser, emotionally and physically. Very violent man. He left, and for a number of years, everyone I dated "turned out to be" abusive, as well. No matter how hard I tried to pick only good men, no matter how stringent I made my standards, I just kept getting involved with the same kind of men.

 

I spent many hours pondering this - why was every man I met, every man who was interested me, basically the same? Some weren't as bad as others, some were nicer for longer, but basically, eventually, they were all the same. I finally figured out that the common denominator in every relationship was ME. At that point, I spent the next 15 years in and out of counseling. I learned that the problem was, my "men picker" was broken. I picked men who were like what I was used to. This is common among abused people. We DONT KNOW what HEALTHY relationships look like. So we keep going back to what feels familiar, no matter how hard we try to pick better. It is fairly well established that abuse victims will continue to pick abusers until they undergo a profound internal change.

 

You have told us you have a long history of abuse. You are desensitized to it. You, like me, were not capable of seeing the red flags. While you and I are better people than our abusers, we are no less defective in our thinking and behaviors. The difference is, while they make choices that hurt other people, we only make choices that hurt ourselves, and by extension, our children.

 

By that, I mean that we teach our children how to pick people who are abusive. We hurt our children by being (to varying degrees) emotionally unavailable to our children. To the degree we are caught up in our lover's drama and problems, our thoughts and emotions are not there for our children. These relationships, instead of providing loving inclusion for our children, or at the least making Mom a happy woman, instead distract us, and when the real hurt starts, it devastates us. And when we are emotionally devastated, we are not able to give ourselves, or our children, or anyone else around us, anything.

 

What I'm saying is, until you go through some serious and profound personal internal changes, you will keep picking broken people, who will in turn, break YOU.

 

You (and I) were not ABLE to see the craziness in these people, because we have a screwed up experience base, AND we have an inaccurate belief system about people and relationships, that makes us get in, and stay in, toxic relationships. We are typically "excitement junkies," addicted to drama.

 

I'm much older now. I have had costly and extensive life experience. I have had extensive and intensive counseling for many years, and while my "man picker" is not perfect, it is tremendously improved. And I can spot a red flag from miles away. I may occasionally miss a red flag, but I never call one wrong anymore!

 

I am telling you, this guy you think you want is broken. Everyone from all over the world is telling you he is broken. Everyone is telling you something is severely wrong there. We are pointing out red flags all over the place. We are not likely all wrong. Yet you refuse to listen.

 

Now, this man who two days ago ALLEGEDLY was physically abused by his wife, who ALLEGEDLY called the cops on his wife, who would

not allow her around the children because she was so crazy and abusive and a severe drug user, who would not even let her in HER OWN HOME, to get her personal effects, is now allowing (or inviting) her in to take care of the children, and is enjoying a nice family dinner with her, AND YOU THINK *HE* IS THE *VICTIM* OF A WEASLEY, MANIPULATIVE WIFE!!!!!! These are no longer red flags, Karma. These are waving matador capes. But you don't see the red capes OR the charging bull.

 

I am going to tell you bluntly that this man is dangerous. If you stay involved with him, he will hurt you probably worse than your last abusive relationship. He will mess with your head and your emotions until you have nothing left for yourself or your kids. I am telling you that YOU are too unhealthy to recognize this situation for what it is. I KNOW, because 40 years ago, I WAS YOU!

 

I am telling you this because you are teetering on the rim of an emotional Grand Canyon, with one foot dangling over the edge, and we are all trying to get you to grab hold of the safety rope and pull yourself back, because we see the imminent and pending destruction.

 

 

 

I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, believe that you, (just like I was) are every bit as dysfunctional (in different ways) as this man and his wife. And I really think it is safe to say that you will keep on picking abusive people, until you do some serious, intensive, personal work.

 

Brilliantly said and far more truthful than even I would like to admit. I am broken. I do see myself being attracted to a certain type of guy. I'm turned off by many qualities other women find alluring. I like a man who shows jealousy. I like a man who needs to be the head of household. I like to give up control and let someone else make my decisions for me. I am drawn to the drama and detest normalcy. I'm the kind of woman where if everything is going perfectly I get uncomfortable...I distrust it, I expect it to do a 180...who knows, I might even sabotage it until it does do a 180. Even going

To his house that night I knew well in advance in my mind there was a strong

Possibility she would show up, yet the conflict that was bound to ensue if she did was not the least bit intimidating to me'. I know I have my own very deep rooted issues. A friend told me' that many ow become so because of insecurities. We're used to being second best, its familiar and comfortable and don't really know how to react if we were made first. Fear would arise that we would disappoint them if they chose us, and that the point where he started to make the steps towards leaving is when we would start to become distant and back away and almost encourage him to try and make things work. I notice a lot of this in me'. I never pushed him to leave but since the day he did, I have made an ungodly amount of comments about her return to the point where he is probably frustrated with having to reassure me'. Watch me be the impteus that pushes him right back into her arms.

I'm sure I could definitely us some IC. I don't know that I can be in a healthy relationship and yet I don't know that I have done a very good job at not being codependent too. I need companionship. I fear being alone. I have become stronger in some ways. A man will never ever lay his hands on me' again. But that doesn't mean I don't let him take advantage of me' in so many other ways. Perhaps knowing he let her full on attack him and he didn't even so much as put his hands on her to restrain her is appealing to me'. I want the security that he would never hit me'. I trust that...I think it's grounds to build a healthy connection from. But like the twodipper article read...he has his own issues too. What is familiar and comfortable to him after all these years. Those mommy issues. We're both just wo people waiting for someone else to tell us what to do.

I guess that probably doesn't take me' to any decision point other than being some random observations. But food for thought yes. Thanks again for the very sincere and thought provoking post. I genuinely heed very good advice when it comes off in a non-attacking manner.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Karma, for whatever reason he needs his wife. He also needs you. I don't see any intention on his part to let either of you go. If he is forced, it will be his wife that he keeps.

 

I'm telling you, those two are addicted to each other in a very unhealthy way and no amount of offers for genuine love and affection from the outside are going to break the spell these two have over each other.

 

Have you seen this article? Take a look and see what you think.

 

TOW dipper

 

I think both MM and his W are 'dippers'.

 

Thank you for that. I do believe he deeply cares about me' and craves what I give him (far beyond just sex) but I also relate to his drive to be with her. The article made a ton of sense. I could never fill that mommy role he may be seeking though...so it will have to come down to a real decision. I don't think I will win. I'm prepared for that.

[someday]

At which point as they were coming in the house to make sure all the kids were safe he advised them that wife is a heavy pot smoker and he wants all her stuff confiscated and documented as well. Told him he wants it out of his house. At which point he walks them over to her stash and pulls out a garbage bag full of trimmings that are remnants from a dispensary as well as another gallon size freezer bag full of more. Cops were shocked and had to call supervisor to request permission not to have to take her in just based on the sheer volume. They left it at confiscating the marijuana and saying a report would be given to the DA to determine if they would prosecute as well as cps. They advised him not to let her stay in the home because she was an endangerment to the children.

 

Honestly, I just do not believe for a second that the police did not arrest someone at this point. There is NO WAY that they called their supervisor and actually got permission to NOT arrest someone. In fact, I'd wager that if this was what actually happened both parents would be arrested and the kids whisked away by CPS. He's full of crap.

[2sure]

KTD...this is an awful lot of drama. An inordinate amount of drama. And I agree with other poster's ...it doesnt all add up. Or, at the very least...I believe his wife is a nut case, but also that he himself seems to be ...prone to drama. She sounds like such a nut case...that he was abused to this degree - her cheating, drug abuse, family neglect, physical abuse, child protective services needed...I mean...how long did he allow he and his children to live like this and why? But...the thing is...a LOT of drama. Some of it unnecessary.

 

You love him. Support him through this crisis. But keep questioning...is this a crisis he wants to overcome or...is HE into crisis? Are you?

[alexandria35]

That was an awesome post fieldsofgold and Karma, I loved your honest response to it. I can relate to most of what you said. I have a problem with my man picker too! lol..for years I thought I was just getting unlucky but then I finally realized that the problem was with me and the type of guys I become attracted to. I also tend to go for the domineering controlling type and guess what? My stepfather who raised me from the age of eight was the most domineering controlling man of all time. I mean I wasn't allowed to have even a thought enter my head that he didn't approve of first. Wasn't allowed to pick my friends, my clothes, and I was definitely not allowed an opinion. I rebelled and left home at 16 and here I was this teenager who didn't know how to chose what to eat for breakfast, suddenly free and alone. Of course I latched on to the first guy that dominated and controlled me, that's how I thought it was supposed to be.

 

I left yet another failed and abusive relationship about a year ago and I have been living alone ever since. You fear being alone? Well so did I and it has been very hard at times. Feels so foreign to have all of this peace and sanity. There are times when I feel like calling my ex up just to introduce a little drama and spice into my life, because I know he will cause me pain and hurt and that will in turn make me feel normal for a bit. How terrible is that? But I don't call him, not even when the solitude is really really painful. I don't date either...because I am committed to fixing my problems and becoming healthy. I am middleaged now and I don't feel like I have anymore time to spend on making the same mistakes. I don't know how old you are but every year that you don't change is just another wasted year. And it is so true that while we are caught up in these dysfunctional relationships that we can't really be there for our children. This has got to be my number one biggest regret of it all. My kids are grown and gone and so it's too late for me to turn it around for their benefit, but maybe it's not too late for you and your children.

[Star_Bright]

That was an awesome post fieldsofgold and Karma, I loved your honest response to it. I can relate to most of what you said. I have a problem with my man picker too! lol..for years I thought I was just getting unlucky but then I finally realized that the problem was with me and the type of guys I become attracted to. I also tend to go for the domineering controlling type and guess what? My stepfather who raised me from the age of eight was the most domineering controlling man of all time. I mean I wasn't allowed to have even a thought enter my head that he didn't approve of first. Wasn't allowed to pick my friends, my clothes, and I was definitely not allowed an opinion. I rebelled and left home at 16 and here I was this teenager who didn't know how to chose what to eat for breakfast, suddenly free and alone. Of course I latched on to the first guy that dominated and controlled me, that's how I thought it was supposed to be.

 

I left yet another failed and abusive relationship about a year ago and I have been living alone ever since. You fear being alone? Well so did I and it has been very hard at times. Feels so foreign to have all of this peace and sanity. There are times when I feel like calling my ex up just to introduce a little drama and spice into my life, because I know he will cause me pain and hurt and that will in turn make me feel normal for a bit. How terrible is that? But I don't call him, not even when the solitude is really really painful. I don't date either...because I am committed to fixing my problems and becoming healthy. I am middleaged now and I don't feel like I have anymore time to spend on making the same mistakes. I don't know how old you are but every year that you don't change is just another wasted year. And it is so true that while we are caught up in these dysfunctional relationships that we can't really be there for our children. This has got to be my number one biggest regret of it all. My kids are grown and gone and so it's too late for me to turn it around for their benefit, but maybe it's not too late for you and your children.

 

This is a really inspirational post, thank you for sharing Alexandria.

 

I can relate to you, and Karma, and Fieldsofgold, regarding the broken manpicker. I too had a controlling and domineering father. I don't think he tried to be that way, but he was really religious. Religion had saved him from his own fractured past and bad upbringing so he thought strict religion was the answer. I was not the type to just fall in line, I questioned and wanted to do things my own way and he would totally lose his temper and become a different, controlling, bullying person... the same issues I had with my ex MM! And I've dated "nice guys" before and didn't feel the passion/attraction... I didn't like feeling like I could walk all over them... I wanted someone to keep me in line I guess, and these guys were bad guys, not good guys.

 

So. I love the idea of being alone. I haven't been alone ever really; I've always been in a relationship. I would like to try just being alone. I get worried that I'll miss out on a good guy; like he's a fish that'll be swooped into some other girl's net... but really I don't even know what a good guy looks like. I don't even know what I like or what to look for that isn't my same pattern of bad picks. So why not take some time and decide and be happy with my own life and THEN find a guy who is happy with his own (single, ha ha) life? It's scary but I like the idea. It seems to be the only way out. Thanks Alexandria. And good luck Karma-- I just realized I said I was going to stay out of your thread because I was so frustrated, and that now I only wrote to Alexandria. Still, I think she has some great advice for you so I'm going to go ahead and echo it!

[porter218]

This is a really inspirational post, thank you for sharing Alexandria.

 

I can relate to you, and Karma, and Fieldsofgold, regarding the broken manpicker. I too had a controlling and domineering father. I don't think he tried to be that way, but he was really religious. Religion had saved him from his own fractured past and bad upbringing so he thought strict religion was the answer. I was not the type to just fall in line, I questioned and wanted to do things my own way and he would totally lose his temper and become a different, controlling, bullying person... the same issues I had with my ex MM! And I've dated "nice guys" before and didn't feel the passion/attraction... I didn't like feeling like I could walk all over them... I wanted someone to keep me in line I guess, and these guys were bad guys, not good guys.

 

So. I love the idea of being alone. I haven't been alone ever really; I've always been in a relationship. I would like to try just being alone. I get worried that I'll miss out on a good guy; like he's a fish that'll be swooped into some other girl's net... but really I don't even know what a good guy looks like. I don't even know what I like or what to look for that isn't my same pattern of bad picks. So why not take some time and decide and be happy with my own life and THEN find a guy who is happy with his own (single, ha ha) life? It's scary but I like the idea. It seems to be the only way out. Thanks Alexandria. And good luck Karma-- I just realized I said I was going to stay out of your thread because I was so frustrated, and that now I only wrote to Alexandria. Still, I think she has some great advice for you so I'm going to go ahead and echo it!

This is self help therapy on LS today!!. My manpicker is also broken and I have been spending the last 2yrs working on that. I realized with my xH that I had been choosing the wrong men. He too was controlling and emotionally abusive. That stuff really screws your head up and when I finally got the nerve to leave him I quickly fell into the same old pattern. I dated another loser(very briefly) and that was enough for me to wake up. That was the point that I realized I had no idea what a good man was like. I had to relearn those basic thing that it appears to come naturally to other women. How to be in a healthy relationship seemed so unfamiliar and even a turn off at first. I spent a yr working on that then finally dated a guy who was polar opposite from any that I have ever dated before. It was a breath of fresh air and very unnerving at first to be honest. Like Karma, I had been through so much cr@p before that I was afraid of being judged by my previous relationships. I learned alot about what I wanted from this guy. He wasn't "the one" but he was so much closer. I have now spent close to 2yrs learning about myself and recommitting to my kids. I now enjoy being single and don't have that fear of being alone rushing me into halfas$ed relationships. I hope Karma is on that same path I have been. It's a long road but it is great to start to understand yourself. When you start to notice why and how you are making these mistakes then it all will start to fall into place.

[alexandria35]

Wow Star_Bright, your background sounds a lot like mine. I didn't bother mentioning it before but my stepfather was a total religious fanatic. Didn't start out that way...when he first hooked up with my mother they were both serious drug addicts, I'm talking hard drugs. Heroin, speed, cocaine and most of it was injected by needles. I was an eight year old pothead..lol. I was allowed to smoke weed and often did so with my parents. Then when I was 10 they became born again christians which wasn't so bad at first. For a little while we lived like a normal family, parents would come home after work, mom would make supper and we would eat together (when they were on drugs I usually came home to an empty house and made my own supper), it was nice. But because my stepfather was actually mentally ill, his religious beliefs just became another symptom of his illness and he took it to the extreme and he used God to shame me and control me further. By the time I was a young teen I was convinced that God couldn't stand me and surely I was going to burn in hell. Guilt, guilt, guilt! it has ruled my whole life and it is so easy to manipulate and control a person who is easily shamed and made to feel guilty.

 

Being alone is wonderful. It can also be very hard at times but I get through the hard times by remembering that I am doing something good for myself. I would rather spend my whole live alone (a rather sobering thought) then get into another abusive relationship. It was actually my grandkids that inspired me. I have three ranging in ages between 3 months and 4 years. I realized last year that I wasn't being the grandma I wanted to be because I was still letting myself get wrapped up in the drama and pain of my relationship. The last 2 weekends they have had sleepovers at my house and it was sooo much fun and a reminder to me of why I have chosen to go this route.

 

Porter good for you! It's so nice to hear from other women that have been through similar experiences and come out okay. Karma I'm sorry for the threadjack but I hope some of the experiences being talked about her are helpful to you.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Wow Star_Bright, your background sounds a lot like mine. I didn't bother mentioning it before but my stepfather was a total religious fanatic. Didn't start out that way...when he first hooked up with my mother they were both serious drug addicts, I'm talking hard drugs. Heroin, speed, cocaine and most of it was injected by needles. I was an eight year old pothead..lol. I was allowed to smoke weed and often did so with my parents. Then when I was 10 they became born again christians which wasn't so bad at first. For a little while we lived like a normal family, parents would come home after work, mom would make supper and we would eat together (when they were on drugs I usually came home to an empty house and made my own supper), it was nice. But because my stepfather was actually mentally ill, his religious beliefs just became another symptom of his illness and he took it to the extreme and he used God to shame me and control me further. By the time I was a young teen I was convinced that God couldn't stand me and surely I was going to burn in hell. Guilt, guilt, guilt! it has ruled my whole life and it is so easy to manipulate and control a person who is easily shamed and made to feel guilty.

 

Being alone is wonderful. It can also be very hard at times but I get through the hard times by remembering that I am doing something good for myself. I would rather spend my whole live alone (a rather sobering thought) then get into another abusive relationship. It was actually my grandkids that inspired me. I have three ranging in ages between 3 months and 4 years. I realized last year that I wasn't being the grandma I wanted to be because I was still letting myself get wrapped up in the drama and pain of my relationship. The last 2 weekends they have had sleepovers at my house and it was sooo much fun and a reminder to me of why I have chosen to go this route.

 

Porter good for you! It's so nice to hear from other women that have been through similar experiences and come out okay. Karma I'm sorry for the threadjack but I hope some of the experiences being talked about her are helpful to you.

 

The last two pages of this thread have been incredibly helpful. I can at very minimum see WHY I make the choices I do. What's sobering is as much as I have that need to have someone in my life, I very much do enjoy my home to myself and not feeling expected to live to anyone elses standards. If I choose to sit down and watch a movie after dinner instead of jump right on the dishes, I do. If I don't feel like making dinner I know the kids are just as happy with a kids meal and if I wanna walk around the house in my jammies all day on Sunday, I feel no shame. That much I absolutely LOVE about being single and free to do as I please. What strikes me' is that since my separation and before my mm, I had no problems dropping a guy that didn't fit the part. My longest relationship was only two months before he would annoy me' or it would start to feel like he was invading my space or expecting me to put my kids on the backburner. I don't know what it is about this guy that has drawn me' in so deeply and changed my attitude. Its the first time I felt in love since. I think maybe it is the similarities we share. So much of me does not want to give up on him, but is it because he's a fixer upper project that I feel I have to take on? I know the consensus of this forum on him. I just can't get past that feeling of knowing he accepts me' for every thing I am and was...flaws and all.

[porter218]

The last two pages of this thread have been incredibly helpful. I can at very minimum see WHY I make the choices I do. What's sobering is as much as I have that need to have someone in my life, I very much do enjoy my home to myself and not feeling expected to live to anyone elses standards. If I choose to sit down and watch a movie after dinner instead of jump right on the dishes, I do. If I don't feel like making dinner I know the kids are just as happy with a kids meal and if I wanna walk around the house in my jammies all day on Sunday, I feel no shame. That much I absolutely LOVE about being single and free to do as I please. What strikes me' is that since my separation and before my mm, I had no problems dropping a guy that didn't fit the part. My longest relationship was only two months before he would annoy me' or it would start to feel like he was invading my space or expecting me to put my kids on the backburner. I don't know what it is about this guy that has drawn me' in so deeply and changed my attitude. Its the first time I felt in love since. I think maybe it is the similarities we share. So much of me does not want to give up on him, but is it because he's a fixer upper project that I feel I have to take on? I know the consensus of this forum on him. I just can't get past that feeling of knowing he accepts me' for every thing I am and was...flaws and all.

I understand the feeling...the fact that he isn't 100% available actually works for you. After a rough M time alone feels soooo good. A MM can't walk all over your free-time. That I guess is why I have considered LDRs . Maybe you haven't had enough time since the end of your M..? MM kinda sucked you into his world of drama...because it started out not so serious then all the back and forth with him and his M has made you forget how much you didn't want to be serious with him in the first place. Once you fell for him it was too late and you were in over your head. It seems that this R has run it's coarse... maybe in a way it has even offered you a little more closure to you own M. You are still healing..

[jthorne]

Well, I hope this isn't taken as an insult, because it's not meant to be. There's the possibility that you think deep down that you don't deserve more. I know I didn't, and boy was I wrong. There's also the possibility that, as others have said, that his dysfunction is what attracts you to him; you feel like you can help him, fix him somehow. You feel like he needs you, and it feels good to be needed. BTDT too.

 

But I just feel that men like this one are emotional vampires. Eventually, he will suck you dry.

[Star_Bright]

Wow Star_Bright, your background sounds a lot like mine. I didn't bother mentioning it before but my stepfather was a total religious fanatic. Didn't start out that way...when he first hooked up with my mother they were both serious drug addicts, I'm talking hard drugs. Heroin, speed, cocaine and most of it was injected by needles. I was an eight year old pothead..lol. I was allowed to smoke weed and often did so with my parents. Then when I was 10 they became born again christians which wasn't so bad at first. For a little while we lived like a normal family, parents would come home after work, mom would make supper and we would eat together (when they were on drugs I usually came home to an empty house and made my own supper), it was nice. But because my stepfather was actually mentally ill, his religious beliefs just became another symptom of his illness and he took it to the extreme and he used God to shame me and control me further. By the time I was a young teen I was convinced that God couldn't stand me and surely I was going to burn in hell. Guilt, guilt, guilt! it has ruled my whole life and it is so easy to manipulate and control a person who is easily shamed and made to feel guilty.

 

Being alone is wonderful. It can also be very hard at times but I get through the hard times by remembering that I am doing something good for myself. I would rather spend my whole live alone (a rather sobering thought) then get into another abusive relationship. It was actually my grandkids that inspired me. I have three ranging in ages between 3 months and 4 years. I realized last year that I wasn't being the grandma I wanted to be because I was still letting myself get wrapped up in the drama and pain of my relationship. The last 2 weekends they have had sleepovers at my house and it was sooo much fun and a reminder to me of why I have chosen to go this route.

 

Porter good for you! It's so nice to hear from other women that have been through similar experiences and come out okay. Karma I'm sorry for the threadjack but I hope some of the experiences being talked about her are helpful to you.

 

Wow, that's so true. I am ruled by guilt (Ex MM liked to say I was always "guilt-ridden") but then I do stuff that later makes me feel guilty! It's like a never-ending cycle. Reading this thread has been really helpful to me in figuring myself out.

 

I am trying to find out how to break free of who I was in the past and start a new me. This is really hard to do but I'm working on it. Thanks Alexandria for sharing and for showing me it's possible.

[Star_Bright]

The last two pages of this thread have been incredibly helpful. I can at very minimum see WHY I make the choices I do. What's sobering is as much as I have that need to have someone in my life, I very much do enjoy my home to myself and not feeling expected to live to anyone elses standards. If I choose to sit down and watch a movie after dinner instead of jump right on the dishes, I do. If I don't feel like making dinner I know the kids are just as happy with a kids meal and if I wanna walk around the house in my jammies all day on Sunday, I feel no shame. That much I absolutely LOVE about being single and free to do as I please. What strikes me' is that since my separation and before my mm, I had no problems dropping a guy that didn't fit the part. My longest relationship was only two months before he would annoy me' or it would start to feel like he was invading my space or expecting me to put my kids on the backburner. I don't know what it is about this guy that has drawn me' in so deeply and changed my attitude. Its the first time I felt in love since. I think maybe it is the similarities we share. So much of me does not want to give up on him, but is it because he's a fixer upper project that I feel I have to take on? I know the consensus of this forum on him. I just can't get past that feeling of knowing he accepts me' for every thing I am and was...flaws and all.

 

Karma, this was my number one reason for not wanting to walk away from ex MM. I too felt like he knew me so well, and accepted me. Then I realized, well, that's because we have many of the same flaws, and no real desire to change or improve ourselves. It's easy to be accepted by someone less than adequate, *especially* when that person is using you to some degree to help them sort out their own mess, and when you are so understanding and accepting of their messed-up situation. I'm not trying to be offensive, I hope I'm not offending you. I can relate to what you said and for me I had to wake up and think, wait a minute, I don't want a guy who accepts me for my crazy because he is also crazy... I want to be the very best person I can be, and then find a guy who is also the very best person he can be!

[Carrot2000]

I just can't get past that feeling of knowing he accepts me' for every thing I am and was...flaws and all.

 

 

You're not flawed!

 

If you have a fault, it's that you don't recognize your own goodness and worth.

 

Karma, you've lived through so much abuse, yet you never turned into an abuser. Despite your hurt you cannot return evil for evil and inflict pain on others. That's a real gift and says a lot about you as a person.

 

You've earned your right to be on this earth and you deserve a hell of a lot more in love and life than you are accepting. Work on healing yourself and treating yourself kindly rather than trying to remodel your "fixer upper".

 

As another woman with a malfunctioning man-picking mechanism, I'm rootin' for ya no matter what.

[KarmasTestDummy]

You're not flawed!

 

If you have a fault, it's that you don't recognize your own goodness and worth.

 

Karma, you've lived through so much abuse, yet you never turned into an abuser. Despite your hurt you cannot return evil for evil and inflict pain on others. That's a real gift and says a lot about you as a person.

 

You've earned your right to be on this earth and you deserve a hell of a lot more in love and life than you are accepting. Work on healing yourself and treating yourself kindly rather than trying to remodel your "fixer upper".

 

As another woman with a malfunctioning man-picking mechanism, I'm rootin' for ya no matter what.

 

You all have had me' in tears all day. I've never felt like such an emotional trainwreck before. I know I deserve better...and it's time to stop waiting and start making better my reality. So I did it...called him out one last time and nailed him to a choice and made my own.

 

Conversation to follow:

 

Have u and [wife] even got one good talk in about what u guys want?

 

Not really. Haven't really had a chance.

 

I don't know whether I'm coming or going with you and sure don't wanna be in the middle of a reconciliation again. U need to talk to me' right now and tell me' what u want.

 

Honestly. I've got 10 years and 4 kids with this woman. If I can make it work I will.

 

Then we gotta stop. I don't need that guilt of being in the way when u want to be in your marriage and would choose someone like her.

 

I can't tell you for sure what will happen. It's probably better I stop confusing you and keep my distance until I figure it our for sure.

If I've caused you any grief I'm sorry. That wasn't my intent.

 

It's not just best...i can't have it any other way. Flip flopping isn't fair to me. You did better when I asked u not to txt anymore so...out of my wishes, please don't. Show me' that much decency and respect please.

 

Ok. I respect that. I'm sorry, and thank you for everything

 

You're welcome. Hope u at least know what it feels like now to have someone really care...so u can get that back again with her

 

It won't ever be you

 

She don't deserve u if she is who u made her out to be...so if she doesn't give u the chance or make the effort don't beat urself up over it. There's better

 

I'll call you if I'm single

 

Not just single, but very single...like no way in hell ever again single. Won't go through this again.

 

Deal. Take care of yourself. I really am sorry.

 

u too. Bye.

 

Bye babe

[redmelon]

Wow. You should feel so powerful after doing that! You chose YOURSELF and that is how it should be. Congratulations! You made the right choice, and now the rest of your life can begin, and it will much less dramatic now...

 

I am sure you are hurting right now, and I send my best to you. Keep posting and know that you have a lot of people here who are pulling for you and are so happy that you have removed yourself from that crazy situation.

[LucreziaBorgia]

You just got the worst behind you. Now it is time to start the healing process.

[Carrot2000]

It was a difficult choice, but ultimately one that is in your best interest. As painful as this experience has been, it proved that you are not hardened and still have the capacity to love deeply. And that's a good thing. Just remember your worth and very soon you will find a man--a true partner--who realizes what a gem you are.

[porter218]

I'm sorry Karma. I know it's hard to change things that you have gotten used to.

His messages sound as if he had already been committed to the idea of working things out with his W and he wasn't going to tell you until you asked. What a jerk:(.

You have big and bright future ahead of you and in a way that s really exciting. Don't sell yourself short again. Don't 'date down' just because you are worried about judgement of your past. I have a drama filled past too but I am looking forward not backwards:D

[KarmasTestDummy]

Good for you, but I am also so sorry. It sounds like he has let you down yet again. This:

 

 

 

speaks volumes...

 

Yes it speaks volumes...but the 'it won't ever be you was in reference to way I loved him, and that his wife will never show him that kind of love. There's a lot in betwen your ...

[KarmasTestDummy]

I'm sorry Karma. I know it's hard to change things that you have gotten used to.

His messages sound as if he had already been committed to the idea of working things out with his W and he wasn't going to tell you until you asked. What a jerk:(.

You have big and bright future ahead of you and in a way that s really exciting. Don't sell yourself short again. Don't 'date down' just because you are worried about judgement of your past. I have a drama filled past too but I am looking forward not backwards:D

 

I got that feeling too, which irks me'. He was going to string me' along til he knew what she wanted to do.

[Carrot2000]

I got that feeling too, which irks me'. He was going to string me' along til he knew what she wanted to do.

 

 

They're addicted to the drama in their relationship.They cheat, they fight, they make up. It's a dynamic that's likely to continue until one of them grows the hell up and gets tired of it. Good thing you are smart enough to not get swept up into their drama.

[whichwayisup]

In all my time on LS, I've never seen so many people band together and truly give the most awesome and heartfelt, deep and personal advice. Each person who has posted in the past 3 pages, wow. Such words and Karma, your honesty and your big heart IS what's going to get you through all this. You aren't alone!

 

Honestly. I've got 10 years and 4 kids with this woman. If I can make it work I will.

 

Kudos to him, as much as I'm sure it hurt to hear, atleast he knows he isn't ready to walk away. Four kids and alot of history with his wife, he can't walk away from. Both of them are messed up and have an unhealthy dynamic going, nothing is going to change that.

 

Sorry you're hurting. Here's a big hug..You need a bunch of them now.