Fedup&givingup Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Notabadguy, Thank you. I have written my post, and it's a doozy of a long story. I tried to make it short as possible without leaving anything that I felt to be crucial information out. I think the fact that you have been cheated on yourself will be an asset and possibly a comfort to your friend. If he has absolutely no clue about her ever doing anything like this, he is going to really be hurting and upset. I am sure you are well prepared to be there for him. It can't be an easy thing for you to do, but the truth hurts. Good luck, and keep us informed on what turns out with this!!! Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaSongbird Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 NotABadGuy... I still vote for telling, no matter what you have.. just tell it like it is and let him draw his own conclusion. He may not believe and you may get blamed and frozen out...but at least you'll have done the right thing and not become a party to keeping her secret. Link to post Share on other sites
corporal17 Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Let me tell you something. You have 2 options. 1 is to tell him, he may thank you. But my advice is #2. Don't tell him, forget you ever knew about it. Should it come to a head in the future, never ever say you knew already. I was in his situation and after I found out on my own many people have told me they already knew of several times my wife had cheated on me. That's when I look at them and say why the hell didn't you tell me, that's when I was mad at them. Had they told me when they found out I don't know if I would have believed them over my wife, but if they wanted to keep it quiet then, they should have kept that secret forever. The best thing you can do is when he does find out (cause he will) be there for him as a friend, comfort him. My advice, forget you ever knew anything. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Excellent advice, corporal17. If you choose silence, let it be for a lifetime. Link to post Share on other sites
NotaBadGuy Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 What about if you do not feel keeping silent for a lifetime is the best thing to do? Then what? I know I could not walk on knowing full well what is going on here. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Feeling greatly that I've been cheated on myself, I truthfully would want to know. Of course, I've got several VERY suspicious reasons that exist already. Personally, if I were completely oblivious to the whole thing anyway and no idea of any cheating occurring, I still would want to know. I can't help but feeling that I would also feel very betrayed by anyone who knew about it and didn't tell me. Not ever confessing to have known is just dishonest. I know how horrible it is to be married to someone that you feel cheats from time to time. It is AWFUL. The fact that even thinking that any of his work associates knew about it would make me feel like a COMPLETE fool. Other people knowing and just telling me would completely devestate me all the more. I would feel that there is just NO one to trust after that. I would feel deceived by the ones that knew as well. Being cheated on is the most defacing thing there is, IMO. It can make you feel completely worthless. The person who cheats for the hell of cheating has serious problems, and I mean serious problems. It's not just destructive to the relationship, it's very destructive to the person being cheated on. Here's what you could maybe do. Go somewhere with your friend...I don't know what the circumstances are, because you said his wife is around no matter what (that right there tells me something....she knows how guilty she is, so she can't even let her husband out of her sight with his friends). Try to get to him alone. Ask him how things are going...basically, try to get ANY vibe from him, and I mean ANY, that something is different with his wife. You could even talk about your sex lives, or something. I don't know how long this couple has been married, but it could be so long that your poor friend might be used to "getting some" not so often. If there is ANY mention of that even, go with that and start with that...i.e., "Wow, do you feel that's often enough?" Just try to find some sort of way to delve into his marriage. If he's this oblivious to his wife's ways, then perhaps you could shed some light...before telling him, etc. I just think that knowing something like that and not telling is just as bad. It's keeping it a secret, and THAT is not good. All I know is if there were people that knew all about my husband (which I'm sure there are) that haven't told me, my anger also extends to them. It's just downright embarrassing, and I feel like they condone it. Too many people don't want to get involved. If your friend is upset that you told him anything about his wife, that's a risk I feel worth taking. HE NEEDS TO KNOW! Link to post Share on other sites
NotaBadGuy Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Fedup, I would and did want to know what was going on myself. For my friend here, he deserves to know. I don't think he will find out any other way. I look to the future for the potential offspring this pair may produce. No child deserves to be brought up in an environment where this mess is going on. My friend has been married for 5+ years. I don't know how long this activity has been going on, but I would imagine it has been for quite some time. I would trust noone if my friends knew and did not tell me. That would be horrible. I am very loyal to my friends. Maybe I just would expect the same myself. Being cheated on is a horrible feeling. It does make you feel worthless and makes you second guess evry move you make. It makes you try to think of what you did to make the other person stray. It makes you try harder even when it is not reciprocated. It makes you allow yourself to look past the obvious signs to try to re-win the heart of the one you at one time loved so much. It makes you remember all the positives and overlook the negative aspects of the relationship. It makes you question the institution of marriage and whether or not trust, honesty, and faithfulness truly exist in todays society. It makes you physically ill and sick inside. In my case, it made me lose 25 pds in 2 months - and I did not have it to lose. It takes you to a place so low that you have to drag yourself as you crawl along. So yes, it is demoralizing. It will be tough to get him alone to even be able to bring up this issue. I know the right time will eventually present itself, I just have to be prepared to seize it when that time comes. Hopefully it will be ssoner than later. It is tough to sit and let this lay in wait like a thief in the night. But right now, that is what needs to happen. You're strategy is worth a thought. I will seriously think wbout that approach. It might work given the right situation. This is not a secret I would ever hold from someone. It just isn't right and I cannot do it. I have to disclose. It is entirely worth the risk of losing a friend. I am willing to take that penalty for doing what I believe to be the right thing here. Again, thanks for the response. I am glad to see you are getting valuable advice and opinoins on you posting. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 NotaBadGuy, I support your decision 100%. It IS the moral thing to do for something so immoral. It is the decent thing to do. It sounds like you truly value your friend as a human being and your friendship with him. Maybe you can start out by sharing the pain and agony of your own situation (I'm thinking he is already aware of it, so bring it back up). Let him know that you completely and totally understand what he is feeling, that's very important. I think your approach is what counts when disclosing the bad news. I seriously don't think anyone would alienate the person telling...they are contributing just as much, like an accomplice to a crime. Et Tu, Brute? LOL Seriously, that's how I view that. The ONE regret that I had when my friend told me that my husband had called her to get together with her and had been flirting with her is that she told me in December, about 10 days before Christmas. That wasn't too smooth. I'm still glad she told me, though. I know you must be a decent person to care so much about your friend's feelings. I believe you are doing the right thing. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Without actually seeing anything yourself, you're left at the mercy of someone else's accounts. They may be reliable, but they're not necessarily going to convince your friend that his wife has cheated on him. If you're going to say anything, you've got to have indisputable evidence. That means either multiple eyewitnesses in person, photographs, or a stained dress with matching DNA. Now, no matter how well intentioned you may be, I don't see how you can approach him with the abovementioned evidence and not make it an incredibly awkward situation. By doing that, you're essentially involving yourself in their marriage, which is generally none of your business. If you really feel compelled to do something to bring his attention to it, you could do what Solemate suggested and just make a very subtle statement in passing like "Hey, I saw ______ the other day at lunch, I think she was with one of her coworkers or something." (or tennis partner, friend, whatever). As corporal said, though, I would NEVER say "Yes, I knew about it" or "Dude, um, your wife's cheating on you now". Just be his friend in his time in need. Truth is, they always get caught. Someone who doesn't give a s*** (a distant acquaintance) will probably feel more at liberty to spill the beans or someone else will unwittingly disclose something that would implicate her. By that point, he'll probably suspect something's up anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 notabadguy, it's interesting that you yourself have been cheated on - it puts your concern and urgency in a different light. please let us know how the disclosure goes - Link to post Share on other sites
lilvoyce7321 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I would confront her. I would tell her to tell him or that you will. That is just me. My friends would want to know. Of course I have known them for over 15 years so they know that if I came to them with something like this that I would not be lying. Would you want your friend keeping something like this from you? Link to post Share on other sites
NotaBadGuy Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Jenny, How does me being cheated on put things into a different light? I am curious as to what that means. If anything, it means I know what the empty feeling is like knowing that your spouse has totally decieved you, how low it takes you as an individual person, how much it makes you question whether you can ever trust again, and so on and so forth. Please don't think this is an attack on your response, just mere curiosity on my part. Amerikajin, I guess it depends on you definition of "seeing" to determine whether I have what you would consider reliable. I have photos that more than tell the story. If you are speaking of actually seeing them in the sack, then no, I don't have that. It will be incredibly awkward no matter what approach is taken. I know that. I just want to try or attempt to minimize as much unneeded drama as possible. I know what the consequences of such a disclosure potentially are and I accept those to the utmost. As for eventually getting caught. That may be the case. However, at this point in time there are no children involved in this marraige. I would hate for this to go on into the future, there be children, and then she gets sloppy and gats caught. Then you have children left in the wake of this mess. I don't believe I can in good conscious not say anything with this in mind. Just remember, "when elephants fight, its the grass that suffers." Thanks for your reply, I truly do appreciate it. Fedup, I do totally understand my friends potential feelings because of my sitution. That is why I am compelled to tell him. I know it will hurt him. He has no clue. But there is so much more for him to lose if I decided to wait or say nothing at all (which is not even an option at this point). Spouses like these are totally destroying the institution of marriage. So has the advent of no fault divorce (but thats a whole other issue). Like you mentioned, the disclosure is the key. I think about it often. Thanks for the comment about being a decent person. I appreciate it. I pride myself in being an honest, trusting, morally sound individual. I am not perfect, but I be the best all around person I can. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 >>>I guess it depends on you definition of "seeing" to determine whether I have what you would consider reliable. I have photos that more than tell the story.<<< Okay, so you've got "proof". >>> It will be incredibly awkward no matter what approach is taken. I know that. I just want to try or attempt to minimize as much unneeded drama as possible.<<< You're getting neck deep in some drama, and you run the risk of being seen as the guy who started it all. It may not look that way now, but that may very well be the end result. As long as you're aware of those consequences and accept them. >>> I would hate for this to go on into the future, there be children, and then she gets sloppy and gats caught. Then you have children left in the wake of this mess. I don't believe I can in good conscious not say anything with this in mind.<<< Are you a marriage cop now? >>> Spouses like these are totally destroying the institution of marriage. So has the advent of no fault divorce (but thats a whole other issue).<<< Infidelity has been around as long as marriage. In fact, half (maybe more than half) of marriages have infidelity at some point. Many more marriages have other imperfections in them, ranging from drug abuse and myriad other disturbances. In no way am I trying to suggest that infidelity should be acceptable, and I know your heart is in the right place, but I wonder if you've really thought about this from all angles. I'm not saying you haven't. Just wondering, that's all. I'll share with you a story that's in a similar vein. My best bud in my hometown was having some drinking problems and his wife called me up one day and asked me to help me confront him about it. I thought, okay. After all, he's my best friend. Hell, I was the best man at his wedding. So I drove up one Friday after work and I started talking to her and a couple of mutual friends. We then confronted his mother about it and tried to get her to join us in our little "intervention", though she was noticeably reluctant throughout the ordeal. Anyway, a mutual friend and I suggested that he go to a support group like al-anon and, in addition, get counseling. They seemed a little reluctant to that idea, and over the course of the next day. Meanwhile, my mother, who is also a good friend of the family, talked to another family friend of theirs at my request - I thought that with certain key people involved, we could all force my buddy to get into help. Well, after a while it was clear that my friend, my mother and I had one idea and the family decided they didn't really need our help. And later I found out that both his mother and his wife thought we were getting too deep into family business. It took six months to a year before I felt comfortable talking to my friend again. In my experience, I just stay the hell out of intervening in family affairs (including adultery) unless I'm asked to get involved, and even then I don't necessarily get involved. Nevertheless, you've made up your mind. I think you've got a strong conscience and I hope that what results is what you intended, and that it is positive for everyone involved. Link to post Share on other sites
mstckh Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I feel you should tell your friend what she is doing. I have been there I know how it feels. It will be worst if he finds out on his own. To be honest I have been in both party's shoes. He has a right to know and you should be the one to tell him. Keep in mind tho there may be something more to this between your friend and her. Who knows. SHe may be the type that really doesn't care that she is going to hurt him in the long run. If he is truly your friend he will Thank-you in the long run/ Link to post Share on other sites
Suebee Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I think you should tell your friend. I wish someone would have told me my boyfriend was cheating. I had to find out from the one he was cheating with. To make matters worse, she said they used protection "most of the time", which of course meant they had unprotected sex, which in turn put my life in danger since I thought we were monogamous so I had unprotected sex with him. I am a single mother (my kids' father passed away) so to think my boyfriend could have given me AIDS makes my blood boil every time I think about it. By the way, he's in his 40's so he's no "stupid" kid and knew the dangers of contracting AIDS. Luckily, I am ok but if I would have suspected he was out screwing around, I would have dropped him like a hot potato. Link to post Share on other sites
NotaBadGuy Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Amerikajin, No I am not a marriage cop. I just speak from life experience. My parents spent 10+ years in court battling over who knows what. The effects are long term and significant. No child deserves to be drug through the coals of a heated divorce. Children are often left as pawns in this bitter battle and are often forced to give up thier childhoods and innocence. This is unfair to these children and the parents of these children are too caught up in making each other look bad to see the damage that is being done to the children. So, no, I am not a marriage cop. However, I do understand the short and long term effects such a tramatic experience can physiologically and psychologically have on children. I thank you for your response. In reading this reply, please do not take it as abrasive or negatively. It was straight from the heart. Thanks again. I have considered the issue from numerous angles. That is also whay I posted this query here. I want all the insight, whether positive or negative, that anyone is willing to give. I read the replies and take them and read over them numerous times. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 notabadguy, it seems to me you have made up your mind. your previous history interests me because i do think you might be projecting your own pain onto this situation. i guess i, as a reader, would have felt more comfortable had you admitted your own psychological involvement and background sooner, but whatever. i don't agree with your decision but i think it is as well-motivated as it could be. you clearly will not be able to rest until you do what you want to do - so go for it. tell him., in the manner suggested above: i saw A having <insert harmless activity> with B the other day - did her trip away get cancelled? clumsy? yes. necessary? evidently yes. it is necessary to you. Link to post Share on other sites
NotaBadGuy Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 Jenny, I guess I am at a loss for why you would think I am projecting my pain into the situation? My psychological and background involvement being mentioned sooner would have made you see things different? You have maintained your position from the beggining or so I have thought. I understand your position and respect it, but am curious as to why the original questions have an immediate bearing on why this is or is not the right thing to do. I have attempted to explain myself in a way I am comfortable yet with enough information to answer questions one may have. I have not held back information from the begining to be decietful or hurt my own credibility. That is just how questions were asked and answered. And why would you say it is clumsy? What am I doing/not doing or have I said to give you that impression? But then gain say it is as well motivated as it could be? I am just curious. I have enjoyed reading your opinions throughout the forum. I think you give sound advice and opinions. I guess I just don't understand. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 ok, let's sort this out. here is my baggage - i think most people are fundamentally indifferent. when i hear you being so concerned about a marriage that is not yours, i assume you have some personal investment, even if a covert one. i guess i have been hunting for that from the get-go - i have no idea why you would be paying so much attention to someone else's wife and her activities. knowing you yourself were cheated on helps - and i am so sorry that happened to you. nobody deserves that. you seem like a really cool and thoughtful guy. i think you are trying to save your buddy the same pain you went through. it's selfless, sort of, but it partly about fixing the pain you went through, in my opinion. but, then again, i do beleive that most human actions are motivated by a desire for pleasure and a need to avoid pain. this is my particular damage. as for clumsy - it is only clumsy because that kind of conversation always is. you are more or less presenting what very well might be the information that destroys his life - it's never going to be a graceful conversation. i like you a lot as a poster, i think your posting name is quite accurate. it should also read:articulatethoughtfulkindguy. but i don' t think this is your business. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 >>>My parents spent 10+ years in court battling over who knows what. The effects are long term and significant. No child deserves to be drug through the coals of a heated divorce.<<< Of course not, but marriages don't always end because of infidelity. Cheating is often a symptom of the disease, not necessarily the disease itself. That doesn't make cheating right, and I've had a few choice words for a few of the more unabashed cheaters on these forums myself. You're right that children are often used as pawns in a divorce, and almost all divorces get a little sticky somewhere along the way. Many divorces are relatively amicable, though, and many of them don't take ten years to resolve. It's worth noting that many intact marriages are horrible ones at that. You can't compel couples to be good husbands and wives, they have to want that for themselves - no outside intervention from a friend is going to change the problem. The problem is that the two people aren't on the same wavelength in their marriage. How do you know your friend doesn't bear some of the responsibility there - not for the adultery, of which he's clearly a victim - but in reference to the overall health of the marriage? >>> Children are often left as pawns in this bitter battle and are often forced to give up thier childhoods and innocence.<<< I've got news for you, pal: my parents were legally married and I was forced to give up my childhood and innocence at about the same time as some of my friends who grew up in "broken" homes. My father was an adulterer and an alcoholic, and I still don't see it as my duty to go jumping into someone else's marriage unless I'm specifically asked to do so. You're not going to save anyone any pain. You're not going to change anything. You're simply going to expose your friend to a truth that he probably already knows at some level but has tried not to see. >>> This is unfair to these children and the parents of these children are too caught up in making each other look bad to see the damage that is being done to the children.<<< Again, the cheating is a symptom of the disease. All you're doing is exposing a symptom. You're not curing anything. Still, I'm moved by your resolve. I know that your friend's best interests are at heart, and I commend you for it. I do hope what results is what you intended, assuming the very best of your intentions. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted March 13, 2004 Share Posted March 13, 2004 I couldn't agree with that more. People who cheat and feel no remorse are a breed all on their own. I always love to analyze things, and I was a psychology major in school, and I am REALLY trying to sort and figure out what some of the common denominators were in people who cheat. I'm wondering were they to some degree neglected by their mother's, or something. There IS something mentally wrong with cheaters. They must be escaping a true level of intimacy and feel that they can sexualize people, if that makes any sense. Sex to a cheater doesn't mean what it does to "normal" people. Some people may cheat out of spite or vengeance. Some may do it because they are completely narcissitic, and need the constant reassurance that they can get what they want from somebody, or that people want them. Whatever the case may be, cheaters have got some sort of psychological problem, because their ways of thinking are way off. To be able to cheat and carry something on with someone else while in a "committed" relationship filling that person with a bunch of BS that they love them, etc., etc. is completely OFF. That's a scary individual IMO, because they have absolutely no conscience. I will say, AGAIN, tell your friend. He doesn't deserve to be in the dark about this, becuase right now, his life is a lie. Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 >>>Cheating Is a Symptom of a Disease Post<<< That was an anology, not to be taken literally. You're putting it into a different context here. >>> I always love to analyze things, and I was a psychology major in school, and I am REALLY trying to sort and figure out what some of the common denominators were in people who cheat. I'm wondering were they to some degree neglected by their mother's, or something. There IS something mentally wrong with cheaters. <<< I think that's too broad a generalization to make. Some cheaters, like sex addicts, really do have a psychological problem while others just have low integrity or suffer from relationship problems. >>> Sex to a cheater doesn't mean what it does to "normal" people.<<< This opinion isn't universal, but my belief is that anybody can become a "cheater" given the right situation. >>>Whatever the case may be, cheaters have got some sort of psychological problem, because their ways of thinking are way off. To be able to cheat and carry something on with someone else while in a "committed" relationship filling that person with a bunch of BS that they love them, etc., etc. is completely OFF. That's a scary individual IMO, because they have absolutely no conscience. <<< I think this assessment is a little off. I don't defend cheating and I can honestly say I've never cheated on any partner in a committed relationship, but not everyone who cheats fits neatly into a "mentally deranged" category. Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I do think that people who can cheat and act like it's no big deal, repeatedly in a committed relationship/marriage IS deranged. Sure, given the right circumstance and the right situation, but when there are numerous affairs/flings that have occurred, or even an out and out ongoing relationship on the side shows someone that has something WRONG with them. These types of cheaters (which are what I am referring to) doesn't have that innate dinger going off in their head telling them it's wrong. Instead of being held accountable for their actions, they try to justify their wrong doings with the actions of their spouse/partner. It's as simple as if you can't refrain from having other people/partners in your life while in a committed relationship, you get the hell out. They are extremely selfish by nature and lack the ability of feeling right from wrong...from reading the ways of these people on posts on here, it's evident to me that these type of people have absolutely no true sense of remorse. IMO, that in itself is sickening. Link to post Share on other sites
Fraggles Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 Originally posted by amerikajin >>>Cheating Is a Symptom of a Disease Post<<< That was an anology, not to be taken literally. You're putting it into a different context here. >>> I always love to analyze things, and I was a psychology major in school, and I am REALLY trying to sort and figure out what some of the common denominators were in people who cheat. I'm wondering were they to some degree neglected by their mother's, or something. There IS something mentally wrong with cheaters. <<< I think that's too broad a generalization to make. Some cheaters, like sex addicts, really do have a psychological problem while others just have low integrity or suffer from relationship problems. >>> Sex to a cheater doesn't mean what it does to "normal" people.<<< This opinion isn't universal, but my belief is that anybody can become a "cheater" given the right situation. >>>Whatever the case may be, cheaters have got some sort of psychological problem, because their ways of thinking are way off. To be able to cheat and carry something on with someone else while in a "committed" relationship filling that person with a bunch of BS that they love them, etc., etc. is completely OFF. That's a scary individual IMO, because they have absolutely no conscience. <<< I think this assessment is a little off. I don't defend cheating and I can honestly say I've never cheated on any partner in a committed relationship, but not everyone who cheats fits neatly into a "mentally deranged" category. ...suffer from relationship problems. I have to agree with amerikajin. Not all ple have a severe psychological problem if they cheat. My marriage did indeed suffer from relationship problems. And unfortunately my H took the infidility road instead of open communication (but that WAS our problem!) Not all cheaters are serial cheaters or totally morally corrupt or pyscopaths. Shoot, like they say about most things: It can happen to the best of us. Link to post Share on other sites
K.J Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I have been in this situation, I am still in the situation with a freind of mine, She messes around all the time on her b/f and I have told him, however they are still together, He in the nd believed her, and she just moves around to different guys... However this one is going to get her back for all the wrong that she is doing, He knows(the guy she is messing around with) about her b/f. He has kept all the clues, pictures, machine messages her saying that she was in love with him,recipits showing that he bought her stuff and it was not her buying like she tells her b/f. As hard as it is, I would not say anything. It will oneday come back on her, and the way that I feel is that if these people who want ot go out and USE other people will pay the price oneday. I have tried as I am her b/f's friend but he thinks i am not telling the truth. So inturn I say nothing!!!! he will find out and I am not in the middle. I stay out of it and watch it slowly come down to the end, Yes I feel that it is wrong but I am not believed by him so whatever... Do what you feel is best everyone has different outcomes, I agree with the one saying send a note not giving any information about yourself and give all or as much details as you can if he wants to follow up on it then let him, If he wants to ignor it then that is up to him and you do not lose a friend in the end K.J Link to post Share on other sites
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