Forum Ettiquette?

[Star_Bright]

I agree.

 

 

 

Ahh, but THAT is why you were an OW. You were rebelling.

 

And you thought it had to do with love?

 

Thanks for diagnosing me, JamesM.... I am sure you are some perfect person without any issues.

 

Yes, I loved MM.

 

I think I am going to leave LS, it has served its purpose for me and I don't appreciate the digs and ridicule thrown at me.

 

I don't understand how people can be mean like that and I guess this is no longer the place for me. Many people here were very helpful and I thank them for that but now it is time for me to move on and deal with this on my own instead of having insults and snide remarks thrown at me.

[herenow]

IMO, the diversity in this forum is what makes it helpful. It is a place where all sides can see the raw truth of the pain that affairs can bring to everyone involved. If a person wants to be shielded from the effects of an affair, then maybe they should think about why they feel that way. Just saying.

[kuma]

Again, exactly what I've been referring to.

 

The tactic of deliberately veiling insults in the guise of humor. Knowingly, intentionally posting baited comments with the intent to anger/hurt/draw out a nasty response from others.

 

Intentinoally insulting someone and then trying to "take it back" by calling it humor or claiming that they mis-interpreted your intent doesn't negate the insult...or the apparent intent.

 

I'm not the only one seeing this.

 

I agree with Owl. jj, your joke was cruel. It wasn't funny at all. What would your MM's wife think if she saw it?

[jennie-jennie]

GG is NOT the one who constantly states that a MM who cheats is BECAUSE of past horrible circumstances in the home as a child. Why is it then so awful to wonder if the same couldn't possibly be true for someone who accepts their behaviors for years on end? The same could be said for a BS who KNOWS her H cheats and yet allows him to stay in the home. Unless, of course, she only married him for $$ in the first place.

 

You know this is not a fair description. I post that all participants of the love triangle are likely to come from dysfunctional families of origin. GG posts that the OW has self esteem issues.

[donnamaybe]

You pretty much lost me Donnamaybe... I'm not sure what you are talking about. Not trying to be mean or snarky, I'm just confused as to what your post had to do with mine. I was just saying that I found Greengoddess' post about "All OWs are from broken unloving homes and have drug issues etc. etc. etc." (not an exact quote of course) very judgmental as it is stereotyping and trying to lump a whole bunch of people into one category. I find some of Greengoddess' advice to be very sound and helpful but other times she makes purposeful digs like this at OW to the point where I would rather her just stay out of this forum if it were up to me (which of course it isn't) because her purpose seems to be just to come here, to an OW "support" forum, and KNOCK OWs. That is different than providing advice in the form of "your life will be happier if you get MM out of it" etc. Those kind of digs are instead purposefully making fun of OWs and just wanting to make us feel bad... what is the point of that? Why should someone feel entitled to come here and constantly do that, and what is wrong with THEM that that is how they get their rocks off???? I just wish people could speak with kindness instead of ridicule, even if they are giving tough love/ not-always-welcome advise.

Some OW claim their MM cheats BECAUSE of his horrible past. It's not a stretch, then, to assume said OW must equate cheating with some kind of past trauma. Perhaps the same trauma could contribute to being the kind of person who would put up with being dangled on a string for literally years, whether they be OW/OM or BS.

 

GG seems to be finding on LS that most OW have also had an awful past of sorts, and she questions if anyone involved in an A hasn't had an awful past.

 

Yes, we all have issues in some way or another. We all have different personalities. But that is different than someone having lived through an awful childhood, or undergone a regularly scheduled beating at the hands of an abusive partner, or gone through a period of substance abuse which may have altered their thought process.

 

If people have other insights that would conflict with what GG wonders, they should offer them up.

[herenow]

Thanks for diagnosing me, JamesM.... I am sure you are some perfect person without any issues.

 

Yes, I loved MM.

 

I think I am going to leave LS, it has served its purpose for me and I don't appreciate the digs and ridicule thrown at me.

 

I don't understand how people can be mean like that and I guess this is no longer the place for me. Many people here were very helpful and I thank them for that but now it is time for me to move on and deal with this on my own instead of having insults and snide remarks thrown at me.

 

No SB, don't leave please. Just take what you need and leave the rest.

[donnamaybe]

You know this is not a fair description. I post that all participants of the love triangle are likely to come from dysfunctional families of origin. GG posts that the OW has self esteem issues.

No, she wonders if they HAVE self esteem issues.

[jennie-jennie]

Dismissive, just like Owl pointed out.

 

I have already clearly pointed out that my own experience has taught me that those who have never been an OW/OM can never understand what it means - both regarding the positive and the negative.

[herenow]

I have already clearly pointed out that my own experience has taught me that those who have never been an OW/OM can never understand what it means - both regarding the positive and the negative.

 

I agree that I will never be able to understand the POV of an OW. That is exactly why I came to this forum in the first place. Even after all this time, I still don't get it, but I have accepted that I never will.

[Star_Bright]

No SB, don't leave please. Just take what you need and leave the rest.

 

I am just in a bad place right now, I am really hurting and maybe over-sensitive but I don't understand why people can't just be nice to each other, especially with something so difficult, especially on a forum that IS really supposed to be for OWs to find support. Maybe the issue is I'm not an OW anymore, maybe I should go to a break-up site or somewhere where I can focus on staying NC and staying positive instead of feeling judged for why I was an OW and bringing the whole OW aspect into it at all at this point... at this point I just need support in staying away from MM even though I loved him and miss what I thought we had.

[jennie-jennie]

Thanks for diagnosing me, JamesM.... I am sure you are some perfect person without any issues.

 

Yes, I loved MM.

 

I think I am going to leave LS, it has served its purpose for me and I don't appreciate the digs and ridicule thrown at me.

 

I don't understand how people can be mean like that and I guess this is no longer the place for me. Many people here were very helpful and I thank them for that but now it is time for me to move on and deal with this on my own instead of having insults and snide remarks thrown at me.

 

Star-Bright, that was a joke, not intended to hurt. Was that not clear to you?

[JamesM]

This is the type of post I find disturbing.

 

Hmmm....why? It is only the truth.

 

I would much rather hear the truth, good or bad, than some totally fabricated statements.

 

The truth unfortunately is not so easy to hear if it is laced with anger and bitterness...as in many cases it is.

 

Let's clarify here based on fact shall we:

 

So what YOU say is fact?

 

MOST BS's do not come here to berate and criticize OWs. There are more BS's that post like Owl than the ones you speak about. Those FEW who do go against the guidelines are quickly told to behave by the mods and given infractions.

 

What is said is different than how it is said. Very few BSs can come here and be objective in what they say. They may be telling the truth from a different perspective but many do so in a tone that causes more hurt than help.

 

Just because one abides by the guidelines does not mean that one is not causing hurt.

 

Where did you get the fact that many don't know they were with a MM until they were in love? Please share because I think I have only seen that a couple of times.

 

I am not going back through the five years of threads that I have read, but IMO many began a relationship with their MM without knowing who they were. Many does not mean all or even most. It is simply more than some.

 

I did not say it was a fact.

 

And, the fact is, for the most part BS's, who have successfully either moved on or reconciled, have accepted that the marriage wasn't working.

 

Another fact. But you may be right when you add the word successfully. And I am guessing that many who have successfully moved on/reconciled do not feel the need to post in anger here. It is also probably a fact that many who think they have successfully moved on...have not actually done so.

 

MANY admit that the affair was a sign of other issues. However, no BS should be blamed for the choice that their spouse made to cheat.

 

No, I have agreed with this before. We make our own choices, but our choices are influenced by many factors. And ignoring the biggest factor of marriage is not good for either the BS or the WS when it comes to "moving on."

 

MANY also think that the marriage was not that bad and the WS could have easily talked it through with them before choosing an affair. Yet many actually do not listen until the family is broken up...IMO.

 

When you use words like most and many with the statements you are making, I can only assume either you are reading a different forum that I am, or you just see what you want to see.

 

Or I read them differently and you see what you want to see.

 

Which is fine, but the facts are still the facts.

 

What is that quote? "Don't confuse facts with reality?"

 

Anyhow, this is my interpretation of what I have read. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps you are.

 

Now if you really feel this is how is should be, why do you post here (since you are neither a BS or and OM)?

 

Please read what you quoted...especially the bolded part.....

 

"And TBH it would be best that only those with the same perspective or those who can post from that perspective should post here."

 

I believe that I can post from that perspective objectively and fairly non-judgmentally. If I were a BS, then I would definitely have a much harder time of posting without lacing my words with anger. Since I am neither, I feel that I can offer advice from both perspectives in a way that is more objective than can be offered by someone who is either a BS or an OW/OM.

 

And yes, I could be wrong.

[JamesM]

Thanks for diagnosing me, JamesM.... I am sure you are some perfect person without any issues.

 

Far from it.

 

That post was meant as a dig at those who will say that something in your background caused you to be an OW. I come from a very strict religious home and have a similar background to you.

 

My point was that you proved my point. OWs are no different than anyone else.

 

 

I think I am going to leave LS, it has served its purpose for me and I don't appreciate the digs and ridicule thrown at me.

 

I apologize for the hurt I caused you and definitely unintentionally. If any dig was made, then it was against the ones who say that backgrounds determine why someone is an OW/OM.

 

I am sorry for those remarks if they caused you hurt.

[woinlove]

I am just in a bad place right now, I am really hurting and maybe over-sensitive but I don't understand why people can't just be nice to each other, especially with something so difficult, especially on a forum that IS really supposed to be for OWs to find support. Maybe the issue is I'm not an OW anymore, maybe I should go to a break-up site or somewhere where I can focus on staying NC and staying positive instead of feeling judged for why I was an OW and bringing the whole OW aspect into it at all at this point... at this point I just need support in staying away from MM even though I loved him and miss what I thought we had.

 

I'm sorry you are hurting so much and you should get the support you need to heal. Please don't make a decision based on this thread. These navel-gazing threads about the OW forum don't deal with a real problem and are mostly people venting about what kind of forum they would like to see, bringing up as many perceived slights as real slights, sometimes showing blindness to their own bias while being oversensitive to that of others, and to top it off, sarcasm and humour is particularly difficult to interpret in such vague threads.

 

I'm sure if you started a threat focussed on what you need - support to stay away from MM and to recover from a love that hurts - you would find many of the helpful posts that kept you here in the past.

 

Maybe LS is really not what you need now, but I just don't think you should make a decision based on this particular thread.

[greengoddess]

You pretty much lost me Donnamaybe... I'm not sure what you are talking about. Not trying to be mean or snarky, I'm just confused as to what your post had to do with mine. I was just saying that I found Greengoddess' post about "All OWs are from broken unloving homes and have drug issues etc. etc. etc." (not an exact quote of course) very judgmental as it is stereotyping and trying to lump a whole bunch of people into one category. I find some of Greengoddess' advice to be very sound and helpful but other times she makes purposeful digs like this at OW to the point where I would rather her just stay out of this forum if it were up to me (which of course it isn't) because her purpose seems to be just to come here, to an OW "support" forum, and KNOCK OWs. That is different than providing advice in the form of "your life will be happier if you get MM out of it" etc. Those kind of digs are instead purposefully making fun of OWs and just wanting to make us feel bad... what is the point of that? Why should someone feel entitled to come here and constantly do that, and what is wrong with THEM that that is how they get their rocks off???? I just wish people could speak with kindness instead of ridicule, even if they are giving tough love/ not-always-welcome advise.

 

You are very very wrong as to my motivations. I feel a lot of sympathy for many ow and get very angry that young women would in my opinion waste the best prime years of their life on an old married guy who already has children and wants some fun. If making an ow feel guilty or bad will wake them up and get then to go on with living their life then that is what I want to do. Nothing makes me happier on this forum then seeing a woman wise up and live her life out of the shadows. An ow who thinks support is cheerleading an affair and the deception really bothers me. That to me is not support but aiding them in wasting years og their life and brinnging them a lot of future pain.

 

When I think of theses pig 40 50 somethings playing around with the hearts of 20 30 somethings as the go home to their families it really upsets me. I WANT to wake these women up to what they are doing to their life and also to how badly they are also hurting the mm's spouse and children. Many women in an affair do not think of the spouse as a real person and she needs to wake up and see that she is a person with real emotions that she is aiding her husband in deceiving.

 

You are very wrong.

[Star_Bright]

Some OW claim their MM cheats BECAUSE of his horrible past. It's not a stretch, then, to assume said OW must equate cheating with some kind of past trauma. Perhaps the same trauma could contribute to being the kind of person who would put up with being dangled on a string for literally years, whether they be OW/OM or BS.

 

GG seems to be finding on LS that most OW have also had an awful past of sorts, and she questions if anyone involved in an A hasn't had an awful past.

 

Yes, we all have issues in some way or another. We all have different personalities. But that is different than someone having lived through an awful childhood, or undergone a regularly scheduled beating at the hands of an abusive partner, or gone through a period of substance abuse which may have altered their thought process.

 

If people have other insights that would conflict with what GG wonders, they should offer them up.

 

Ok well thanks for the further explanation, makes a little more sense now. I just think we are all humans and humans are fallible and make mistakes. So, there is my alternative explanation to GG's theory that we're all messed up drug addicts from bad families. And James obviously offers up the explanation that some of us are apparently rebelling against our parents. I don't agree or else I would have at least told my parents about MM, ha ha, but at age 30 I am pretty much through my college rebellion years and get along with my parents fine now.... but there you go, there's another explanation. Or from not having good role models when it comes to relationships and being skeptical of marriage. In my case that is probably the biggest "factor" as I try to examine why I would have become an OW. My parents have a crappy marriage and have for some time, and I wish they would just get divorced if they are going to treat each other like that. So I guess I sometimes didn't feel I was doing anything wrong because I thought that if MM and his wife's marriage was over it was over and if they were unhappy he should leave. Not saying that is logical or right but in coming up with explanation about "why I was an OW" I guess I would say it was that.

 

So yeah rebelling against this notion that marriage is so special and sacred but the people in it can stop loving each other and treat each other like crap but fall in love with someone else... gosh no that's such a horrible sin. I would say if anything, in addition to feeling love for MM and loving to be around him and with him, that is what I was subconsciously doing while participating in an affair... and in a strange way being involved in the affair helped me define my own ideas about marriage and I am not nearly as against it for myself or in general as I was before... I guess that is something good that came out of the whole messy ordeal. But really I think people including myself just get into these less than ideal situations and then later feel stupid and say, what was I thinking and how can I not do this again. It does NOT mean we all had broken families and/or past drug issues or whatever and I still feel she only said that to make OWs feel bad, which isn't cool. Sorry for all my rambling, I'm probably not making sense to anyone buy myself but I'm just all over the place.

[jennie-jennie]

I agree that I will never be able to understand the POV of an OW. That is exactly why I came to this forum in the first place. Even after all this time, I still don't get it, but I have accepted that I never will.

 

Thanks, herenow. This shows insight on your behalf.

[greengoddess]

Tried to edit my typos but I was too late.

[woinlove]

ha - that should be start a thread (not threat). for some reason, it won't let me edit.

[Star_Bright]

Far from it.

 

That post was meant as a dig at those who will say that something in your background caused you to be an OW. I come from a very strict religious home and have a similar background to you.

 

My point was that you proved my point. OWs are no different than anyone else.

 

 

 

 

I apologize for the hurt I caused you and definitely unintentionally. If any dig was made, then it was against the ones who say that backgrounds determine why someone is an OW/OM.

 

I am sorry for those remarks if they caused you hurt.

 

OMG I am so sorry I misunderstood you. I hadn't "spoken" with you before and thought you were being serious/ mean, I'm sorry! Thank you so much for explaining. I guess I am just getting my feathers all ruffled this morning, maybe for no reason! Your post actually DID make me think though, even when I thought you were serious, so, that's good.

 

I am sticking my foot in my mouth now and telling myself to calm down... my apologies again for misunderstanding that it was a joke!

[herenow]

James,

 

The anger you may see in posts from all sides is the true reality. The raw emotion that can be caused by an affair. I see no problem with that reality. However, I do think the mods do a good job keeping it in control. I don't see much of what you say is happening. Maybe it's because I don't read here much, but I just don't see it.

 

As a BW I have always been honest about my situation and how I feel. I have been called bitter MANY MANY times. I have been told that it's no wonder my H had an affair. I have been told that I'm not happy and my H really loves his OW. But, I have also been told by both OW and BW that my comments have been helpful to them. So I continue to post.

 

BTW, I have read some of your comments and I really don't feel you are very objective at all. You seem to have issues with BW with-holding sex (please correct me if that is someone else). It appears to me that you are not very compassionate towards BW. So, again, I don't find that to be an objective POV. It's your POV and you are entitled to it, but objective it's not. JMHO

[Star_Bright]

You are very very wrong as to my motivations. I feel a lot of sympathy for many ow and get very angry that young women would in my opinion waste the best prime years of their life on an old married guy who already has children and wants some fun. If making an ow feel guilty or bad will wake them up and get then to go on with living their life then that is what I want to do. Nothing makes me happier on this forum then seeing a woman wise up and live her life out of the shadows. An ow who thinks support is cheerleading an affair and the deception really bothers me. That to me is not support but aiding them in wasting years og their life and brinnging them a lot of future pain.

 

When I think of theses pig 40 50 somethings playing around with the hearts of 20 30 somethings as the go home to their families it really upsets me. I WANT to wake these women up to what they are doing to their life and also to how badly they are also hurting the mm's spouse and children. Many women in an affair do not think of the spouse as a real person and she needs to wake up and see that she is a person with real emotions that she is aiding her husband in deceiving.

 

You are very wrong.

 

Ok, I am trying to understand and I will back away from being over-sensitive and feeling judged. I get what you are saying and your posts in my earlier threads did help me to realize some of these things. I guess I just think your judgment is better reserved for the MM than the OW if that is your viewpoint. I know what you mean about MM playing with OW hearts but that doesn't necessarily mean all OWs have some traumatic past. Maybe we just believed MM when he said he loved us. Honestly I do believe my ex MM loved me in a messed up way... but I am still examining all of that so what do I know. Thanks for explaining your viewpoint.

[Star_Bright]

I'm sorry you are hurting so much and you should get the support you need to heal. Please don't make a decision based on this thread. These navel-gazing threads about the OW forum don't deal with a real problem and are mostly people venting about what kind of forum they would like to see, bringing up as many perceived slights as real slights, sometimes showing blindness to their own bias while being oversensitive to that of others, and to top it off, sarcasm and humour is particularly difficult to interpret in such vague threads.

 

I'm sure if you started a threat focussed on what you need - support to stay away from MM and to recover from a love that hurts - you would find many of the helpful posts that kept you here in the past.

 

Maybe LS is really not what you need now, but I just don't think you should make a decision based on this particular thread.

 

Thanks, woinlove. I appreciate your support.

[greengoddess]

Ok, I am trying to understand and I will back away from being over-sensitive and feeling judged. I get what you are saying and your posts in my earlier threads did help me to realize some of these things. I guess I just think your judgment is better reserved for the MM than the OW if that is your viewpoint. I know what you mean about MM playing with OW hearts but that doesn't necessarily mean all OWs have some traumatic past. Maybe we just believed MM when he said he loved us. Honestly I do believe my ex MM loved me in a messed up way... but I am still examining all of that so what do I know. Thanks for explaining your viewpoint.

 

ah but see starbright you just said in an earlier post that your parents had a horrible marriage and you wished they would get divorced rather than treat each other that way so you have had a horrible role model for marraige and thus even said yourself you may have a skewed view of mm's marriage because of it. Thus a family of origin. FOO issue for being in an affair and excusing it.

[Star_Bright]

ah but see starbright you just said in an earlier post that your parents had a horrible marriage and you wished they would get divorced rather than treat each other that way so you have had a horrible role model for marraige and thus even said yourself you may have a skewed view of mm's marriage because of it. Thus a family of origin. FOO issue for being in an affair and excusing it.

 

True.

 

Doesn't everyone have FOO issues or no?

 

My parents were happily married until I was about 15 or 16. It all went downhill from there. So my CHILDHOOD was happy, and I was never abused or anything crazy like that. I just think my parents who married young and had kids young were so into having little kids that they didn't know what to do with themselves or us once we started growing up. Not that they hated us or purposefully made our lives miserable. I guess they were just normal parents trying their best and then life skewed out of control for them. And yes for awhile it affected me badly and I had a bad relationship with them when I was in college etc. Now I realize they are human and we get along but I just wish they would get divorced. So I guess what I mean is that even though I experienced family problems like I think (???) everyone else does, there was nothing HORRIBLE going on and I don't feel like that is an excuse or even really the reason I had an affair. I feel that I dealt with them and it's in the past. Guess I could be wrong but it's how I feel. I feel that the reason I had an affair was that I fell in love with MM. And the perhaps subconscious reason I allowed myself to do something I don't agree with was perhaps because I didn't really agree with marriage so I didn't think it was really that big of a deal. Which I know is messed up reasoning but there it was in the back of my head I guess.

 

Interestingly enough, MM's daughter is 15 and one of the things that always bugged me so badly was how this must be affecting her. I guess sometimes I thought, well, if he is so unhappy he needs to leave, and not be unhappy at home like my parents. Then other times I thought, if there is any way their marriage can be saved then I need to get out of the way because I don't want to make life hard on his daughter who I could relate to. The whole time he was telling me he wanted to get divorced anyway and be with me and that he would be a happier dad, so I didn't really, and honestly don't now, blame myself for hurting his daughter, but the problem was that he kept telling me he was leaving but in the meantime he was staying married and spending all his free time with me, not his wife, not his kids, just with me. So I felt that his words and actions didn't match and while I am not theoretically opposed to someone leaving an unhappy marriage and being happier with someone else, and thus being a better parent, that was not what was happening in reality. In reality he was dragging it all out and making everyone's life less than it should have been , including mine, and I'd have to think including his kids'. So that was one reason among many I started wanting to break it off.