Those Darn Kids ;)

[TigerCub]

Hey Hey!,

 

In almost all of the OM/OW posts, we talk about how the MP uses the "kids" excuse for not leaving.

 

Sometimes, we can understand it, but there is a general impression that kids are being used as the excuse for not leaving.

 

But when reading the infidelity forum, BSs usually talk about their experience with a cheating spouse and they talk about the hurt they feel (totally understandable), then they say the love the cheating spouse and want to make the marraige work For The KIDS.

 

I'm just wondering do BSs use the "Kids" excuse as much as MM/MW more out of fear or leaving, because it would make them feel better to have a noble cause for putting up with a *****ty situation. Just like a lot of MMs do it to sound like martyrs instead of admitting to being scared of change, or admitting that they may have never really had any intentions of leaving their M.

 

Its just a thought, this post is not meant to stir a lotta *****, its just a thought that occured to me, when I read both forums.

Cuz it seems like a pretty good consensus here that MMs use that as an excuse, so I wonder if BSs do too?

[bentnotbroken]

I am curious to which BS said those things. Since the regulars anyway tend not to say that. If you could point me in the general direction I would appreciate it.

[whichwayisup]

For the kids sake, a marriage should be saved, atleast an effort put in by both BS and WS. If it doesn't work, then throw in the towel. But to give up and walk away without really trying isn't fair to the kids and the family unit.

 

Ofcourse there are exceptions to the rule, but my belief is, a marriage with kids counts for alot.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[TigerCub]

I am curious to which BS said those things. Since the regulars anyway tend not to say that. If you could point me in the general direction I would appreciate it.

 

I've seen a bunch of them during my time here. And I have heard that same thing from friends of mine, but I will look on the infidelity forum and find you some links.

 

What's you take on it?

[bentnotbroken]

I've seen a bunch of them during my time here. And I have heard that same thing from friends of mine, but I will look on the infidelity forum and find you some links.

 

What's you take on it?

 

 

My take is I haven't had the same experience. My own experience only allowed me to show the concern for my children's exposure to Mr. Messy and OW. That meant get them out of the situation and save my own life in the process. I agree WWIU in that both parents should put their children first in all aspects. Then if you can't work it out, then leave with some respect and dignity.

[herenow]

Your not comparing apples to apples unless the BW has also been having an affair. The comments about MM using excuses are about MM who have affairs.

 

IMO, these type of men usually do what they want. The comments you speak about are made with the knowledge that the MM will cheat on their wives. The general POV of people who believe they are using the kids as a excuse it that: The type of man that will stay married because it is what is best for the kids, isn't the type of man to have an affair in the first place.

 

Now personally, I didn't reconcile for my kids as we were separated for several months and I know that my kids would be fine had we divorced. But, if a mother decides to stay married for the sake of her kids, I find that to be admirable. If a MM has an affair and claims he stays for the kids, much less admirable IMO since he was willing to cause great pain to their mother. How is that being a good father?

[woinlove]

I tend to be more cynical when I hear 'for the kids' from a WS, because they often take time away from the children to spend with their AP. Of course, what people do and what they think they should do can diverge, so WS probably still have those feelings of wanting to do right by the kids even as they shortchange them for me-time. Also, someone can behave badly and then come to their senses.

 

I do think BS with children will sometimes work harder to try to make the M work, typically based on the family life they had before the WS strayed. I don't see the same cynicism or hypocrisy in that, that I sometimes see for the WS.

[herenow]

I tend to be more cynical when I hear 'for the kids' from a WS, because they often take time away from the children to spend with their AP. Of course, what people do and what they think they should do can diverge, so WS probably still have those feelings of wanting to do right by the kids even as they shortchange them for me-time. Also, someone can behave badly and then come to their senses.

 

I do think BS with children will sometimes work harder to try to make the M work, typically based on the family life they had before the WS strayed. I don't see the same cynicism or hypocrisy in that, that I sometimes see for the WS.

 

Right because the BS hasn't done anything to hurt the family unit assuming the BS hasn't had an affair (or done something else) themselves. So, no reason to doubt the motive of staying for the kids.

[whichwayisup]

I always say it takes a big and special person, whether the BS is a BW or BH, to stay and work it out after the WS cheated. Some say the BS is weak or too afraid, too reliant on the WS. SO WHAT? Whatever a BS's reasons for staying are hers and rightfully so. Same goes for a WS, his/her reasons to go back home ARE valid, like it or not. Ofcourse the WS put his marriage and family unit at risk, losing everything for the OW to begin with, but people have the right to change their minds, end the affair, go back home.

 

The BS has to be the bigger person and the one to keep it together more so than the WS. OWL's situation in the past is a prime example of how understanding and how supportive a BS can be during after DDay. Allowing the WS to have that bit of extra time to grieve the loss of the A, the OW/OM before jumping in and fixing the marriage asap. one thing at a time.

[TigerCub]

Your not comparing apples to apples unless the BW has also been having an affair. The comments about MM using excuses are about MM who have affairs.

 

IMO, these type of men usually do what they want. The comments you speak about are made with the knowledge that the MM will cheat on their wives. The general POV of people who believe they are using the kids as a excuse it that: The type of man that will stay married because it is what is best for the kids, isn't the type of man to have an affair in the first place.

 

Yeah...that's definitely what makes it sound like an excuse

 

Now personally, I didn't reconcile for my kids as we were separated for several months and I know that my kids would be fine had we divorced. But, if a mother decides to stay married for the sake of her kids, I find that to be admirable.

 

Thanks for the honesty

I guess my question comes as someone that doesn't have kids. I guess, just like your kids would have been fine with a divorce, I assume that most other kids would too, and so the question of, why would the BS put up with such betrayal if the kids would be fine, is what comes to mind?

 

I'm not judging the BSs, its honest curiousity.

From my experiences with friends who try to work things out after affairs, the relationships seem very tense at home, and so I wonder how could that be better for the kids? And that's what makes me think, that maybe on some level, the BS believe that they are doing the best thing for the kids, just so they don't really have to face the trauma of a divorce themselves.

 

But people are different and maybe not every R (post A) is so terrible? I honestly don't know...

but it made me wonder...

[TigerCub]

Right because the BS hasn't done anything to hurt the family unit assuming the BS hasn't had an affair (or done something else) themselves. So, no reason to doubt the motive of staying for the kids.

 

Please don't get me wrong. I didn't intend for my question to villify the BS. I meant it as a question of "On some level, do they (the BSs) ever convince themselves that it is best for the children for them to stay in an unhappy M where they were cheated on, maybe because there is a part of them that feels afraid of making that move and getting out of the M?"

[desertIslandCactus]

I always say it takes a big and special person, whether the BS is a BW or BH, to stay and work it out after the WS cheated. Some say the BS is weak or too afraid, too reliant on the WS. SO WHAT? Whatever a BS's reasons for staying are hers and rightfully so. Same goes for a WS, his/her reasons to go back home ARE valid, like it or not. Ofcourse the WS put his marriage and family unit at risk, losing everything for the OW to begin with, but people have the right to change their minds, end the affair, go back home.

 

The BS has to be the bigger person and the one to keep it together more so than the WS..

 

 

And in the situation where they do divorce and marry .. I think 'blended families' is a tawdry conception to further rope and inconveniece the children ..

[herenow]

Yeah...that's definitely what makes it sound like an excuse

 

 

 

Thanks for the honesty

I guess my question comes as someone that doesn't have kids. I guess, just like your kids would have been fine with a divorce, I assume that most other kids would too, and so the question of, why would the BS put up with such betrayal if the kids would be fine, is what comes to mind?

 

I'm not judging the BSs, its honest curiousity.

From my experiences with friends who try to work things out after affairs, the relationships seem very tense at home, and so I wonder how could that be better for the kids? And that's what makes me think, that maybe on some level, the BS believe that they are doing the best thing for the kids, just so they don't really have to face the trauma of a divorce themselves.

 

But people are different and maybe not every R (post A) is so terrible? I honestly don't know...

but it made me wonder...

 

IMO, a divorce would have been the easy way out. Yes, reconciliation is stressful. Yes it takes time and a commitment from both spouses to dig deep and fix the problems at the very core of themselves and their marriage.

 

I'm glad I gave our marriage a second chance. Had I not, I would have missed out on a truly remarkable relationship and marriage.

[herenow]

Please don't get me wrong. I didn't intend for my question to villify the BS. I meant it as a question of "On some level, do they (the BSs) ever convince themselves that it is best for the children for them to stay in an unhappy M where they were cheated on, maybe because there is a part of them that feels afraid of making that move and getting out of the M?"

 

Oh, I didn't take your post as anything but a question to be answered. I think there are cases in which people don't leave because of fear. And, yes a BS may use the kids as an excuse in those cases. Anything is possible.

[TigerCub]

I always say it takes a big and special person, whether the BS is a BW or BH, to stay and work it out after the WS cheated. Some say the BS is weak or too afraid, too reliant on the WS. SO WHAT?

But that's what I have a hard time understanding, I guess.

How is it a good reason to be in such a bad situation just because a person is too reliant on the other spouse?

Would you really want someone to be with you simply because they are too afraid to leave? Or because they rely on you too much?

 

Whatever a BS's reasons for staying are hers and rightfully so. Same goes for a WS, his/her reasons to go back home ARE valid, like it or not. Ofcourse the WS put his marriage and family unit at risk, losing everything for the OW to begin with, but people have the right to change their minds, end the affair, go back home.

 

They sure do

[TigerCub]

IMO, a divorce would have been the easy way out. Yes, reconciliation is stressful. Yes it takes time and a commitment from both spouses to dig deep and fix the problems at the very core of themselves and their marriage.

I agree with that (and I've never been married)

I think if the MPs would only take that step early on - there would be no need for As in the first place.

 

I'm glad I gave our marriage a second chance. Had I not, I would have missed out on a truly remarkable relationship and marriage.

 

I'm very glad to hear that it was all worth it for you, and that you are happy

[TigerCub]

I am curious to which BS said those things. Since the regulars anyway tend not to say that. If you could point me in the general direction I would appreciate it.

 

I'm sorry I couldn't remember exact posts where that was said - but I know I've seen em

This is the closes thing to it that I can refer to here - its not the exact thing that I was thinking of, but the OP mentions love for his WW and the fact that they have 3 kids as reasons for working it out.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232875&page=2

 

I feel bad that I can't find the ones that really stuck out before... but I know they're there somewhere.

[TigerCub]

For the kids sake, a marriage should be saved, atleast an effort put in by both BS and WS. If it doesn't work, then throw in the towel. But to give up and walk away without really trying isn't fair to the kids and the family unit.

 

Ofcourse there are exceptions to the rule, but my belief is, a marriage with kids counts for alot.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks for the response WWIU.

I can certainly appreciate how kids change an R. And I can see how difficult it would be to end a M if kids were involved. I do agree that if kids are there, it would be worth at least trying to fix things, but only as long as the home environment doesn't become an unpleasant place with fights and tention and parents that are in a loveless R.

 

But that's my 2 cents based on the fact that I'm not married, never have been, have not been cheated on and don't have any kids - for what its worth

[TigerCub]

I tend to be more cynical when I hear 'for the kids' from a WS, because they often take time away from the children to spend with their AP. Of course, what people do and what they think they should do can diverge, so WS probably still have those feelings of wanting to do right by the kids even as they shortchange them for me-time. Also, someone can behave badly and then come to their senses.

 

I agree with this.

I think that's exactly what makes it seem like an excuse from MM. I'm sur that thier concern and love for their kids is real, but their actions by having the A don't match up - so it sounds like an excuse.

 

I do think BS with children will sometimes work harder to try to make the M work, typically based on the family life they had before the WS strayed. I don't see the same cynicism or hypocrisy in that, that I sometimes see for the WS.

That's interesting. So in a way, they're working so hard trying to get back what they had before the A.

 

Honestly, I think that IMO, if I were in that situation I would never think that it would be back 100%, so that just wouldn't seem possible to me. I guess I didn't consider that other people would actually put in so much work thinking that it was worth the effort - that they can be back to good. But that's just because I'm a cynical person

For those that are more hopeful and optimistic, I think that's good for them - truly.

[TigerCub]

as a BW, I chose originally to stay for the children. WH and I have four children, three adopted and one biological. I told WH on DDay that if it was just our biological daughter (who is 2), I would have been at the courthouse at 9am the next day to file for divorce. So yes, I stayed originally for the kids. My three adopted are from foster care, and they have already had so many losses and hurts in their short life, I didn't want to create another broken home for them, if there was any way possible to try to work on the marriage. Also, I am in graduate school, and I am in the middle of my clinical internship, and we have no family where we live. My family lives 5 hours away in Memphis, and his family lives 13 hours away in Georgia. I am not working right now (well, for money anyway), so I cannot pay rent, utilities, etc. That was another reason for staying originally. I have been a stay at home mom since our daughter was born 2 years ago, and I do not want to put her in day care if we got divorced. My situation is a little different in that my WH had an A over 3 years ago and it was only for 5 weeks, and nothing more than that. WH has been extremely remorseful and we are working it out. Now, if it happens again, I will go, no matter what.

 

Now, I stay because I love my fWH. He is remorseful, and is doing what is needed to be done to save our M. We are in counseling and things are getting better, so that we can be happy and give our kids the example of a good healthy marriage.

 

Thank you for your response Emptypodgal. I really appreciate getting as many different stories to help me find my answers

 

HUGS to you for adopting

I hope that counseling helps you guys be happy and provide a great home for all your children

[bentnotbroken]

IMO, a divorce would have been the easy way out. Yes, reconciliation is stressful. Yes it takes time and a commitment from both spouses to dig deep and fix the problems at the very core of themselves and their marriage.

 

I'm glad I gave our marriage a second chance. Had I not, I would have missed out on a truly remarkable relationship and marriage.

 

 

I understand your position. Just for me, staying would have been the easy and deadly way out for me. Leaving took everything I had and then some. I had to break old habits, old thought processes and old negative behaviors. I do believe with all my heart and soul that my children are better off for it.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm sorry I couldn't remember exact posts where that was said - but I know I've seen em

This is the closes thing to it that I can refer to here - its not the exact thing that I was thinking of, but the OP mentions love for his WW and the fact that they have 3 kids as reasons for working it out.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=232875&page=2

 

I feel bad that I can't find the ones that really stuck out before... but I know they're there somewhere.

 

 

Don't sweat it. When we are looking for things is when they tend to hide.

[woinlove]

 

Honestly, I think that IMO, if I were in that situation I would never think that it would be back 100%, so that just wouldn't seem possible to me. I guess I didn't consider that other people would actually put in so much work thinking that it was worth the effort - that they can be back to good. But that's just because I'm a cynical person

For those that are more hopeful and optimistic, I think that's good for them - truly.

 

Just to clarify, I wasn't thinking they are trying to recover what they had before. Many talk about building a new marriage after an A. I was thinking that if they looked at the WS as a parent during the A they might think the children wouldn't lose much, but presumably the WS was a better parent before the A. Of course, I'm always amazed at the number of stories of men who have affairs while their W's are giving birth - so maybe these men have no history of being a tuned in parent.

[TigerCub]

I don't know if I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. I wasn't trying to get back what I had before, because what I had before was lies, pain, heartache, destruction, and ultimate betrayal, and I didn't want that.

But the marriage wasn't like that before the A was it?

When I said trying to get what they had, I obviously meant before the A at all.

 

I did not want to be a single mom of 4 kids, struggling financially, and causing pain in my childrens lives. My youngest two (one adopted 4 year old and our biological daughter) worship their daddy. And I honestly couldn't take their daddy away from them, no matter how bad he had hurt me. WH was out of town earlier this year, and my daughter kept asking, where is daddy? It was so sad. After DDay, I just kept hearing her ask "wheres daddy" with those big gorgeous eyes of hers and the sadness, and it broke my heart. (Our 2 year old loves Little Mermaid, watches it at least once a day at least for just a few minutes, and every time she sees Prince Eric, she screams out, Look, its daddy!). So it wasn't about keeping things the way they were before,

Wow what you described made me sad, and made me really be able to imagine what it would be like to have kids and have to deal with them losing access to one of their parents - at least to not be able to have them around as much (in cases of separation). WOW, that actually made me really sad

 

its struggling to hold on to the ideal life we had imagined we had, its control. BS's have no control over the A, the MP, and the OW/OM, so this is the only opportunity we have for control in our lives. We have no control over this pain and destruction that has happened to us, be we have control over where we go from now.

The bolded part is the only part that I have a hard time understanding. I understand that Rs are very complex and when there are bonds with someone its hard to end an R, but holding on to something that's acknowledged as being "Imagined" makes little sense to me.

If a person knows its an illusion and doesn't really exist, then how can there be any happiness pretending to have it?

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

It has. I really appreciate you telling me your story and explaining your experience and pov

[TigerCub]

I understand your position. Just for me, staying would have been the easy and deadly way out for me. Leaving took everything I had and then some. I had to break old habits, old thought processes and old negative behaviors. I do believe with all my heart and soul that my children are better off for it.

 

I'm sure that every situation is different. As long as you did what was best for you and your children, that's all that matters.

I find that its usually harder to do what's right