Those Darn Kids ;)

[Owl]

But that's what I have a hard time understanding, I guess.

How is it a good reason to be in such a bad situation just because a person is too reliant on the other spouse?

Would you really want someone to be with you simply because they are too afraid to leave? Or because they rely on you too much?

 

How do you decide that the reason is because someone is too reliant?

 

How do you differentiate that between a case where is someone is too reliant, and where there is true love between the spouses, and the BS is willing to fight for that love and relationship?

 

I'd say that the latter very much applied in my case. We'd been married 17 years, and for about 16 years of that we'd had a GREAT marriage. Filled with laughter, fun, caring for each other and the kids.

 

Hey...I'll also admit that it had been nearly 2 decades since I'd lived life "on my own"...but how would you truly determine if its a matter of "too much reliance" vs "fighting to save a long-term wonderful relationship" from the outside?

 

In my case, the kids weren't a weapon between us...BUT...I'll also admit that my wife needed to realize the damage she was doing with her actions. My kids were all older teens at the time...and I insisted that they talk with her about their feelings, and what they'd want to come out of all of this. Without me present, without me 'steering' the conversation.

 

She found out that our older kids point blank told her that they flat out refused to consider living with him/going to visit her when she was there for at least the next year, as they were getting ready to graduate. The younger two wanted nothing to do with him period.

 

This was on d-day, and I had not discussed this at all with them before all of this.

 

I never 'used' the kids in any fashion...but I would also say that they were a factor all on their own right.

[In_Repair]

The only reason I tried to stay with my wife after her affair was because of my children. I didn't want them growing up being shuffled from one home to the other, and I didn't want to miss one day of their lives. The problem with my thinking was that I had no real desire to reclaim any intimacy with my wife, I just wanted to keep the family together so I could be with the kids. I faked it. We went to marriage counseling, we spent more time together... but that didn't work, of course. I, and I think the kids too, are happier now with our 50% custody arrangement.

 

My MW didn't have any children. If she had, she would have never been my MW...

 

As far as MM staying with their wives because of the kids... I'm sure that it has influence on their decision to stay. The thing is though, it seems like every AP thinks their MM or MW was a blithering idiot before they came along. Do APs really believe that their MP didn't consider their children and the impact an affair could have on their relationship with their children before they started sleeping around? Nine times out of ten, the AP was chosen because they were easy and the MP thought they would go along with an affair. They were never meant to replace the spouse, only fill in for them. The rub is that most MPs have spent so much time using the spouse as their excuse for cheating that their only options to throw up as an excuse for not leaving is their children. Some use finances as their excuse, but I've never understood why an AP would accept that one. After all... you are soul mates, and what kind of heartless dick would put money before being with their soul mate?

[Star_Bright]

For the kids sake, a marriage should be saved, atleast an effort put in by both BS and WS. If it doesn't work, then throw in the towel. But to give up and walk away without really trying isn't fair to the kids and the family unit.

 

Ofcourse there are exceptions to the rule, but my belief is, a marriage with kids counts for alot.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I agree with this but would add that both parents would have to be working to not just "save" the marriage but try to have a good and loving marriage for the kids. NOT just to stay together miserably for the kids or for the WS to continue the affair and staying in the marriage for the kids.

 

I think when I first came to LS I posted something to the effect of, "I understand why he's staying for the kids." I really did. I think it would be so hard/ sad to leave my home and kids (if I had kids). For both me and the kids. So I understood why ex MM didn't want to.

 

What I didn't understand is how ex MM could keep having the affair with me AND be staying in the marriage for the kids. IMO that is harmful to the kids; ideally (ideally we wouldn't ever have been in an A but that is how it happened) he would first try to save the marriage if he had any inclination to do that for the kids, and this would only rightly include stopping the A. If he knew that wouldn't work or didn't want to try then he should have left and took quick action for divorce. To me what would be the worst is what ex MM was trying to do -- drag it all out and be with both women in some sense and give the kids false hope.

 

I've never been a BS, let alone with kids, but I *think* that if my WS was truly sorry and wanted to make it work and was doing everything he could, then I may consider staying with him for the kids' sake and hoping that the love would come back between us and I'd be able to forgive him. But if he was still carrying on the A I would put him out; she could have him if he wanted her instead of me (or her in addition to me, which to me would be the same thing). I think kids need good role models and I wouldn't think it would send a good message to my kids if I was staying with a habitual cheater. To me that shows no respect for me and as much as I would want a complete home for my kids, I would rather be split up and have them see that I have respect for myself. Of course this is all theoretical and maybe I shouldn't even speculate, since I'm not married and nor do I have kids. It's just how I think ideally things should work.

[Spark1111]

I agree with this but would add that both parents would have to be working to not just "save" the marriage but try to have a good and loving marriage for the kids. NOT just to stay together miserably for the kids or for the WS to continue the affair and staying in the marriage for the kids.

 

I think when I first came to LS I posted something to the effect of, "I understand why he's staying for the kids." I really did. I think it would be so hard/ sad to leave my home and kids (if I had kids). For both me and the kids. So I understood why ex MM didn't want to.

 

What I didn't understand is how ex MM could keep having the affair with me AND be staying in the marriage for the kids. IMO that is harmful to the kids; ideally (ideally we wouldn't ever have been in an A but that is how it happened) he would first try to save the marriage if he had any inclination to do that for the kids, and this would only rightly include stopping the A. If he knew that wouldn't work or didn't want to try then he should have left and took quick action for divorce. To me what would be the worst is what ex MM was trying to do -- drag it all out and be with both women in some sense and give the kids false hope.

 

I've never been a BS, let alone with kids, but I *think* that if my WS was truly sorry and wanted to make it work and was doing everything he could, then I may consider staying with him for the kids' sake and hoping that the love would come back between us and I'd be able to forgive him. But if he was still carrying on the A I would put him out; she could have him if he wanted her instead of me (or her in addition to me, which to me would be the same thing). I think kids need good role models and I wouldn't think it would send a good message to my kids if I was staying with a habitual cheater. To me that shows no respect for me and as much as I would want a complete home for my kids, I would rather be split up and have them see that I have respect for myself. Of course this is all theoretical and maybe I shouldn't even speculate, since I'm not married and nor do I have kids. It's just how I think ideally things should work.

 

Star Bright, great post!

 

And exactly as you think it should be, is exactly what many BS hope to achieve; a loving, committed relationship with their remorseful WS, whether it be AS GOOD as pre-affair or better.

 

If I KNEW he was still in contact with his AP, yes, I think most BS's would put them out too....for good.

 

I believe taking a WS back for financial security while turning a blind eye to their continued affairs is more of a rarity than often assumed on these forums.

[2sure]

I have seen and know couples who turn a blind eye to their spouses infidelity because of financial comfortableness. BUT...we arent talking about the average or even above average family's finances. We are talking great big money. The kind of money that allows them to live in separate seasonal homes for most of the year. The kind of money that allows them to take separate 6 month vacations.

 

Not the kind of money that makes child support an inconvenience.

For those whose children would be most affected by the financial burden's of divorce...betraying your family in that way...is such a slap in the face to both the BS and the children. The BS then has to take on the emotional burden of HAVING to try to save the marriage so her kids can go to college. Having to take on that burden...motivates most BS to say get the hell out and start sending checks in the mail simply because they cannot stomach living with someone who knowingly risked the lifestyle of their kids. When those people say they are staying for the kids, if they cared that much......lol, no sorry - they are staying so they dont have to send checks.

[TigerCub]

How do you decide that the reason is because someone is too reliant?

the quote was from WWIU "I always say it takes a big and special person, whether the BS is a BW or BH, to stay and work it out after the WS cheated. Some say the BS is weak or too afraid, too reliant on the WS. SO WHAT?"

 

I guess in some cases too reliant would refer to not being able to make it on their own. Or having a really hard time financially and emotionally to start over and do things for themselves.

 

How do you differentiate that between a case where is someone is too reliant, and where there is true love between the spouses, and the BS is willing to fight for that love and relationship?

If the definition of too reliant is like I assumed above, then there is a HUGE difference. Staying in the R and trying to work it out because there really is love there and its worth the fight, is greatly different that staying just out of fear of not doing things on your own and supporting yourself.

 

I'd say that the latter very much applied in my case. We'd been married 17 years, and for about 16 years of that we'd had a GREAT marriage. Filled with laughter, fun, caring for each other and the kids.

 

Hey...I'll also admit that it had been nearly 2 decades since I'd lived life "on my own"...but how would you truly determine if its a matter of "too much reliance" vs "fighting to save a long-term wonderful relationship" from the outside?

 

In my case, the kids weren't a weapon between us...BUT...I'll also admit that my wife needed to realize the damage she was doing with her actions. My kids were all older teens at the time...and I insisted that they talk with her about their feelings, and what they'd want to come out of all of this. Without me present, without me 'steering' the conversation.

 

She found out that our older kids point blank told her that they flat out refused to consider living with him/going to visit her when she was there for at least the next year, as they were getting ready to graduate. The younger two wanted nothing to do with him period.

 

This was on d-day, and I had not discussed this at all with them before all of this.

 

I never 'used' the kids in any fashion...but I would also say that they were a factor all on their own right.

I'm glad that your M was good and worth the fight, and that you guys ended up doing what was best for your kids.

 

I like you Owl and so I don't mean for what I'm saying to sound rude or disrespectful.

Yes, you didn't "use" the kids, but you had them tell their mom their views about how they wouldn't spend time with the OM (and naturally that would be their initial view), of course they're not going to say "hey, awesome, 2 dads!!, sign me up".

I know that what you did was take your children's views into consideration and make sure that their voices were heard, but I'm sure that you also knew that they would say what you hoped they would say.

 

You may not have done it in a manipulative calculating way, but you gotta admit that you knew what they would say would influence her decision greatly.

 

Again, I'm not trying to sound rude. So please don't take offense to my theory.

 

Either way, I'm glad that you guys did work things out and that your children's voices were heard.

[TigerCub]

I agree with this but would add that both parents would have to be working to not just "save" the marriage but try to have a good and loving marriage for the kids. NOT just to stay together miserably for the kids or for the WS to continue the affair and staying in the marriage for the kids.

 

I think when I first came to LS I posted something to the effect of, "I understand why he's staying for the kids." I really did. I think it would be so hard/ sad to leave my home and kids (if I had kids). For both me and the kids. So I understood why ex MM didn't want to.

 

What I didn't understand is how ex MM could keep having the affair with me AND be staying in the marriage for the kids. IMO that is harmful to the kids; ideally (ideally we wouldn't ever have been in an A but that is how it happened) he would first try to save the marriage if he had any inclination to do that for the kids, and this would only rightly include stopping the A. If he knew that wouldn't work or didn't want to try then he should have left and took quick action for divorce. To me what would be the worst is what ex MM was trying to do -- drag it all out and be with both women in some sense and give the kids false hope.

That's exactly why when MMs use "the kids" excuse - that's all it sounds like - an excuse.

I completely agree with what you said SB.

 

I have no doubt that xMM loves his kids greatly and wants to do right by them, but when he was trying to continue the A with me - that's what made it all so confusing. But MMs have a habit of saying stuff while their actions are a complete contradiction.

[TigerCub]

I would just like to thank everyone for sharing their stories and insights on this topic. I appreciate it

[ladydesigner]

The only reason I tried to stay with my wife after her affair was because of my children. I didn't want them growing up being shuffled from one home to the other, and I didn't want to miss one day of their lives. The problem with my thinking was that I had no real desire to reclaim any intimacy with my wife, I just wanted to keep the family together so I could be with the kids. I faked it. We went to marriage counseling, we spent more time together... but that didn't work, of course. I, and I think the kids too, are happier now with our 50% custody arrangement.

 

My MW didn't have any children. If she had, she would have never been my MW...

 

As far as MM staying with their wives because of the kids... I'm sure that it has influence on their decision to stay. The thing is though, it seems like every AP thinks their MM or MW was a blithering idiot before they came along. Do APs really believe that their MP didn't consider their children and the impact an affair could have on their relationship with their children before they started sleeping around? Nine times out of ten, the AP was chosen because they were easy and the MP thought they would go along with an affair. They were never meant to replace the spouse, only fill in for them. The rub is that most MPs have spent so much time using the spouse as their excuse for cheating that their only options to throw up as an excuse for not leaving is their children. Some use finances as their excuse, but I've never understood why an AP would accept that one. After all... you are soul mates, and what kind of heartless dick would put money before being with their soul mate?

 

Unfortunately the bolded was exactly MY reasoning as well. I decided to stay for the kids at first and it has progressed to "for our marriage." We have a different marriage now so I am happier that I did decide to "stay for the kids." My kids also worship their daddy and I could not do that to them. Now if we did nothing but argue, which is few and far between now, that would be a different story. Our kids struggled terribly post H's A and post my RA, they could not understand why Daddy was going to have to leave, why we could not be a "family". They cried, they had problems in school that year, it was terrible. Now that we have reconnected and our marriage is doing much better, everything is better, kids are happy, we are happy, H and I are communicating better, the sex is better. Next time my H and I have a huge disconnect, which I hope never happens again, I hope we recognize it and work back towards reconnecting again.

 

No one said marriage is easy. Mine started out as perfect, we were madly in love, best friends, you name it. Life just happens. You have kids, both people start working too much, then you get thrown financial problems, deaths in the family and before you know it the connection you originally had with the person you fell in love with is gone. That is a really scary place to be and I feel a lot of marriages experience this. I am just happy my marriage is still in tact and that we are a family and our kids love that they still have their mommy and daddy. We are their world.

[2sure]

The kids.

 

Tell me what person can pass up a charity when the donation request has a picture of a kid on it.

 

Marketing.

 

When someone says it "for the kids"...they automatically put themselves in a better light. Even if only to themselves.

 

As far as a reason to stay in an affair AND a marriage...tell me one that would be more effective and conversation ending than this??

[20Seconds]

I think a lot of the focus in the "staying for the kids" argument is on how much damage a divorce might do to them, and rightly so.

 

But there is also the more "selfish" side of things such as:

 

What if the kids end up hating or rejecting you for your actions?

What if they say they don;t want to spend time with you?

What if they end up loving their step parent more than you?

What if your ex makes arrangements / decisions for the children and doesn't involve you in them and you feel they are wrong?

What if your ex decides to move half way across the country and takes the kids with her?

What if they say they want to spend Christmas with her and her new partner, not you?

What if you MISS them?

 

This is the reality of divorce.

 

It is not an easy decision to make and sometimes I think the "if he loved you he would leave" view is way too simplistic, because no-one will ever love a new partner more than they love their children.

[Dexter Morgan]

I'm just wondering do BSs use the "Kids" excuse as much as MM/MW more out of fear or leaving, because it would make them feel better to have a noble cause for putting up with a *****ty situation.

 

as an x-BS, for a very short period of time after Dday I was thinking of my kids and didn't want to break up their home, then I realized that I wasn't the one that would be doing that

 

And I wouldn't call it an excuse. It was genuine concern for them. To call it an excuse is kind of an insult.

[Dexter Morgan]

For the kids sake, a marriage should be saved, atleast an effort put in by both BS and WS. If it doesn't work, then throw in the towel. But to give up and walk away without really trying isn't fair to the kids and the family unit.

 

the burden of that guilt doesn't lie with the BS, but rather the WS.

[worlybear]

I think a lot of the focus in the "staying for the kids" argument is on how much damage a divorce might do to them, and rightly so.

 

But there is also the more "selfish" side of things such as:

 

What if the kids end up hating or rejecting you for your actions?

(IME our kids were hurt by his refusal to talk to them as his actions impacted hugely on his relationship with them.)

What if they say they don;t want to spend time with you?

(IME according to STBXH ,its the mother's fault and nothing to do with his poorly thought out strategy!)

What if they end up loving their step parent more than you?

All our children (grown and small ,refuse to have any contact with her or her child from her own marriage) so it 's doubtful.

What if your ex makes arrangements / decisions for the children and doesn't involve you in them and you feel they are wrong?

As they want no contact- its no contest.

What if your ex decides to move half way across the country and takes the kids with her?

On the contrary ex has moved out of area and not bothered to keep in contact, it won't happen.

What if they say they want to spend Christmas with her and her new partner, not you?

Again, it won't happen.

What if you MISS them?

Doubtful as he has told them he will put OW and her daughter 1st.

This is the reality of divorce.

 

It is not an easy decision to make and sometimes I think the "if he loved you he would leave" view is way too simplistic, because no-one will ever love a new partner more than they love their children.

Sadly this is not true of my STBXH ,who ,on D day declared ,"I'm not staying for a 7 yr old. The rest are grown up and don't need me(Yeah,right.)

Occasional half page letters land, full of superficial trivia about his "new life" (of which she has no part.)

I'm not saying that everyone should stay for the children, but if a partner goes- to cut off contact with your own children and yet support OW and her child (not his) financially and emotionally, then that creature has no morals, no empathy and S*** for brains.

I'm so sorry for my kids that such a reprehensible coward is their father-what a role model!

[Spark1111]

as an x-BS, for a very short period of time after Dday I was thinking of my kids and didn't want to break up their home, then I realized that I wasn't the one that would be doing that

 

And I wouldn't call it an excuse. It was genuine concern for them. To call it an excuse is kind of an insult.

 

And you know what? If I had been home taking care of babies, and I could not provide a roof over their heads other than to take the cheating, lying idiot back and pretend all is okay, to preserve my children's lifestyle out of deep love and concern for their well-being.............................

 

SO WHAT?

 

Is that weak? Or incredible self-sacrifice of one's own emotional needs for the betterment of one's children's life?

 

Happens every day, whether an affair, an addiction, an abuse.

 

That is one courageous parent who can do that. Nothing weak about that decision, IMHO.

 

I would never judge harshly a parent who did that.

[Spark1111]

the quote was from WWIU "I always say it takes a big and special person, whether the BS is a BW or BH, to stay and work it out after the WS cheated. Some say the BS is weak or too afraid, too reliant on the WS. SO WHAT?"

 

I guess in some cases too reliant would refer to not being able to make it on their own. Or having a really hard time financially and emotionally to start over and do things for themselves.

 

Could very well be true. Some may need the spouse's paycheck to feed all those kids, more than they need a loving romantic relationship.

 

 

If the definition of too reliant is like I assumed above, then there is a HUGE difference. Staying in the R and trying to work it out because there really is love there and its worth the fight, is greatly different that staying just out of fear of not doing things on your own and supporting yourself.

 

Some cannot or do not have the resources to do so. If they return to a minimum wage job and hand it all over for childcare, where is the rent money coming from?

 

 

I'm glad that your M was good and worth the fight, and that you guys ended up doing what was best for your kids.

 

I like you Owl and so I don't mean for what I'm saying to sound rude or disrespectful.

Yes, you didn't "use" the kids, but you had them tell their mom their views about how they wouldn't spend time with the OM (and naturally that would be their initial view), of course they're not going to say "hey, awesome, 2 dads!!, sign me up".

I know that what you did was take your children's views into consideration and make sure that their voices were heard, but I'm sure that you also knew that they would say what you hoped they would say.

 

I think Owl's children spoke from their hearts to their mother. Just as mine did to their father. I had no idea what they would say. But these were OUR children, raised by both of us. Thy had opinions too.

 

You may not have done it in a manipulative calculating way, but you gotta admit that you knew what they would say would influence her decision greatly.

 

Again, I'm not trying to sound rude. So please don't take offense to my theory.

 

Either way, I'm glad that you guys did work things out and that your children's voices were heard.

 

No one tried to influence anyone's decision here on DDAY. Everyone just said how they felt, and it was none too good, and mostly it was about the incredible deceit involved, not the affair or the AP.

 

The entire family lives with the lies of the affair, not just the BS! And what parent raises their children without admonishing them to tell the truth?

 

Not one. Not even a WS does that. Do you see how traumatizing that was for them? The lies and secrecy? What PARENT would ever tell their child to "Make sure you lie to mommy or daddy because they can't handle the truth, or it may hurt them."

 

Not a one.

[Dexter Morgan]

And you know what? If I had been home taking care of babies, and I could not provide a roof over their heads other than to take the cheating, lying idiot back and pretend all is okay, to preserve my children's lifestyle out of deep love and concern for their well-being.............................

 

SO WHAT?

 

Is that weak? Or incredible self-sacrifice of one's own emotional needs for the betterment of one's children's life?

 

Happens every day, whether an affair, an addiction, an abuse.

 

That is one courageous parent who can do that. Nothing weak about that decision, IMHO.

 

I would never judge harshly a parent who did that.

 

its not for everyone. I hope you aren't insinuating that I think it is weak of a parent. like I said, the thought ran through my mind and I did struggle with it.

 

I said that to call it an "excuse" is an insult and it insinuates that those that stay in a miserable marriage for the kids are simply "using" the kids as that "excuse".

 

I see it as genuine concern for the kids, not an excuse. but it wasn't for me...in the end it was my cheating x-W that did this to them...not me.

[Spark1111]

its not for everyone. I hope you aren't insinuating that I think it is weak of a parent. like I said, the thought ran through my mind and I did struggle with it.

 

I said that to call it an "excuse" is an insult and it insinuates that those that stay in a miserable marriage for the kids are simply "using" the kids as that "excuse".

 

I see it as genuine concern for the kids, not an excuse. but it wasn't for me...in the end it was my cheating x-W that did this to them...not me.

 

Oh no Dex! I so agree with you!

 

And unless you are a parent, it is hard to understand what choices will be made for the sake of preserving the lifestyle of your children, even taking back a cheater at the expense of your own personal romantic life.

 

Yes, and it is mostly concern, not an excuse or a weakness that may govern those decisions.

 

So I do not judge those who CAN or WANT to do that. I just felt for some, it is all about the romantic relationship, and they see using the kids as manipulation and deceit and weakness in taking back the cheater.

 

But it may have NOTHING to do with the lying, cheating idiot the OW/OM is pining for, and EVERYTHING to do with preserving the family.

 

And while that may not be me, I will not judge someone else who DOES do that to preserve their family.

 

If I did that because I thought that was in the best interests of my children, my response to others was a resounding SO WHAT?

 

And that can be a hard concept if you are not a parent.

[TigerCub]

I think a lot of the focus in the "staying for the kids" argument is on how much damage a divorce might do to them, and rightly so.

 

But there is also the more "selfish" side of things such as:

 

What if the kids end up hating or rejecting you for your actions?

What if they say they don;t want to spend time with you?

What if they end up loving their step parent more than you?

What if your ex makes arrangements / decisions for the children and doesn't involve you in them and you feel they are wrong?

What if your ex decides to move half way across the country and takes the kids with her?

What if they say they want to spend Christmas with her and her new partner, not you?

What if you MISS them?

 

This is the reality of divorce.

 

It is not an easy decision to make and sometimes I think the "if he loved you he would leave" view is way too simplistic, because no-one will ever love a new partner more than they love their children.

 

I totally see what you're saying.

That's why whenever xMM would mention his kids, I just knew I couldn't really say anything to that (I'm sure he knew it too )

I would never want to even try to manipulate someone to leaving their kids. And I told him this before, I told him that even if I could somehow manipulate him into it, I wouldn't.

When it comes to kids, yes that's true, I'm sure that no one in the world no matter how much one "loves" them would matter when compared to their kids. I know that if I had kids, I would feel that way too. F everyone else, my kids would be my top top top priority and their happiness would be all that mattered to me.

 

But..if I was a BS and me and my imaginary H were having those kinds of probs, I know myself, I know that I wouldn't be able to trust them again, and that would cause a LOT of tension, and I'm guessing that (in my hypothetical) situation, I would most likely end the M because it wouldn't be best for my hypothetical kids to live in a house that's so tense and so filled with mistrust and anger.

 

To those that can actually work hard to fix an M post A, mainly for the kids, I applaud you. I just don't know how I would do that if I were ever in that situation.

[TigerCub]

Sadly this is not true of my STBXH ,who ,on D day declared ,"I'm not staying for a 7 yr old. The rest are grown up and don't need me(Yeah,right.)

Occasional half page letters land, full of superficial trivia about his "new life" (of which she has no part.)

I'm not saying that everyone should stay for the children, but if a partner goes- to cut off contact with your own children and yet support OW and her child (not his) financially and emotionally, then that creature has no morals, no empathy and S*** for brains.

I'm so sorry for my kids that such a reprehensible coward is their father-what a role model!

 

Woah Worlybear.

I never knew your story, but F*Ck!!!

That's terrible. I'm so sorry that your kids have to deal with that.

Whenever I talked of MM who have kids and leave an M, I assumed that after the D, they would still have some custody and be parts of their childrens' lives.

You STBX is just ... there are no words. He's a gigantic douche!

[TigerCub]

Oh no Dex! I so agree with you!

 

And unless you are a parent, it is hard to understand what choices will be made for the sake of preserving the lifestyle of your children, even taking back a cheater at the expense of your own personal romantic life.

 

Yes, and it is mostly concern, not an excuse or a weakness that may govern those decisions.

 

So I do not judge those who CAN or WANT to do that. I just felt for some, it is all about the romantic relationship, and they see using the kids as manipulation and deceit and weakness in taking back the cheater.

 

But it may have NOTHING to do with the lying, cheating idiot the OW/OM is pining for, and EVERYTHING to do with preserving the family.

 

And while that may not be me, I will not judge someone else who DOES do that to preserve their family.

 

If I did that because I thought that was in the best interests of my children, my response to others was a resounding SO WHAT?

And that can be a hard concept if you are not a parent.

 

I think that bolded part is exactly why I asked the question. I simply don't see it as a parent does. I can imagine what it would be like to have kids - but I'll never know until I have one.

 

And yes, because I don't I guess my views on what I would do would be different that what you actually HAD to do.

 

I didn't mean any offense by my questions, I honestly just wanted to understand it better from those that actually do have children.

 

As someone that doesn't have kids - I only have a concept of "the family unit" and what needs to be preserved for those kids.

All I know is relationships with no kids, so all I can know for certain would be the connection,trust,respect,love I would have with a partner and I know that for ME, all those are needed in order to have a good R.

But then putting kids in the mix changes everything and that's the part that I can only imagine because I never experienced it.

[Fight4Me]

I think the original question is a good one, and has subsequently resulted in a productive and interesting discussion.

 

TigerCub, just so you know you're not crazy, I recall reading the posts you mentioned about wanting to work it out because of the kids, but there's also usually something about loving the WS as well. Still, I understand your curiosity about this.

 

I think it's natural for any parent who just learns of their spouse's A to think about the kids almost immediately. It's difficult to explain the love and concern for your own children, no matter how old they are, but it is a powerful instinct. When you have spent more than half your life loving their father to boot, then the desire to work on the marriage is that much greater.

 

With that said, my fWH's experience involved a short-term A (6 wks) with an old flame. He had, quite literally, lost his mind during that time. I was very ill, he wasn't sure if his job was stable, and along came an escape. After coming to me, asking for a divorce because he was leaving me for the OW, so much began to make sense. Yes, I thought of the kids, but mostly, I was thinking of him, how he wasn't himself. I also thought of myself briefly, but I somehow intuitively knew that when the reality of what he had done and what he had planned to do set in, it wasn't going to happen.

 

I was upset of course, but then I became very calm and clear-headed. I figured ONE of us had to be. LOL I asked for only two things from him:

 

1) that he not communicate with her for the next few days until I could wrap my head around the situation. I didn't do it in an effort to win him back, but because I deserved at least that much respect from him.

 

2) that he call his parents immediately and tell them, because I was not about to protect him from this or do his dirty work for him. (I have a great relationship with them, and have always talked with them more than he did, but this was his baby to rock.)

 

I would say one, or maybe two hours later (at the most), my fWH came to me and said, "I've made a huge mistake. This is just wrong, so very very wrong, and I don't want to do this." I'm thinking he's speaking only from the guilt he received from his parents. We spoke together rationally. I told him how much I loved and adored him, and helped him unravel where and how he began to distort our marital history (something I didn't realize was so common at the time).

 

That day, he decided he wanted us to meet with our pastor from church, and from there he became more and more remorseful, and I was there for him through his grief in what he had done to me and even the OW. No contact was established, and we began the hard work of building a new marriage, but on the foundation of the true love we shared all these years. Our children are a testimony to that love, and the more fulfilled we are in our marriage, the greater their security and contentment.

 

I know this was long, and some of it may have seemed to be a side track, but I meant to provide my story, what I was thinking and motivated by. It doesn't tell the whole story, how I struggled, how I dealt with the anger and rage, or many of the other ups and downs that comes with healing from such a betrayal. But I am healed, and I do trust my fWH again (although, with wisdom and not blindness).

 

There will not be a second chance, however, and I am neither weak nor fearful should he give me cause to leave him. There is a limit to my mercy and it's a solid boundary fixed in both our minds. He has been given a great gift, and he knows it and works joyfully to express his gratitude.

 

I am blessed, and I wish the same for so many here, whether they be BSs or OW/M.

[ladydesigner]

I think the original question is a good one, and has subsequently resulted in a productive and interesting discussion.

 

TigerCub, just so you know you're not crazy, I recall reading the posts you mentioned about wanting to work it out because of the kids, but there's also usually something about loving the WS as well. Still, I understand your curiosity about this.

 

I think it's natural for any parent who just learns of their spouse's A to think about the kids almost immediately. It's difficult to explain the love and concern for your own children, no matter how old they are, but it is a powerful instinct. When you have spent more than half your life loving their father to boot, then the desire to work on the marriage is that much greater.

 

With that said, my fWH's experience involved a short-term A (6 wks) with an old flame. He had, quite literally, lost his mind during that time. I was very ill, he wasn't sure if his job was stable, and along came an escape. After coming to me, asking for a divorce because he was leaving me for the OW, so much began to make sense. Yes, I thought of the kids, but mostly, I was thinking of him, how he wasn't himself. I also thought of myself briefly, but I somehow intuitively knew that when the reality of what he had done and what he had planned to do set in, it wasn't going to happen.

 

I was upset of course, but then I became very calm and clear-headed. I figured ONE of us had to be. LOL I asked for only two things from him:

 

1) that he not communicate with her for the next few days until I could wrap my head around the situation. I didn't do it in an effort to win him back, but because I deserved at least that much respect from him.

 

2) that he call his parents immediately and tell them, because I was not about to protect him from this or do his dirty work for him. (I have a great relationship with them, and have always talked with them more than he did, but this was his baby to rock.)

 

I would say one, or maybe two hours later (at the most), my fWH came to me and said, "I've made a huge mistake. This is just wrong, so very very wrong, and I don't want to do this." I'm thinking he's speaking only from the guilt he received from his parents. We spoke together rationally. I told him how much I loved and adored him, and helped him unravel where and how he began to distort our marital history (something I didn't realize was so common at the time).

 

That day, he decided he wanted us to meet with our pastor from church, and from there he became more and more remorseful, and I was there for him through his grief in what he had done to me and even the OW. No contact was established, and we began the hard work of building a new marriage, but on the foundation of the true love we shared all these years. Our children are a testimony to that love, and the more fulfilled we are in our marriage, the greater their security and contentment.

 

I know this was long, and some of it may have seemed to be a side track, but I meant to provide my story, what I was thinking and motivated by. It doesn't tell the whole story, how I struggled, how I dealt with the anger and rage, or many of the other ups and downs that comes with healing from such a betrayal. But I am healed, and I do trust my fWH again (although, with wisdom and not blindness).

 

There will not be a second chance, however, and I am neither weak nor fearful should he give me cause to leave him. There is a limit to my mercy and it's a solid boundary fixed in both our minds. He has been given a great gift, and he knows it and works joyfully to express his gratitude.

 

I am blessed, and I wish the same for so many here, whether they be BSs or OW/M.

 

What a great post! I believe this is true of most long-term M faced with infidelity that involves children. Thank you for sharing this!

[Star_Bright]

I can't wrap my head around this when it comes to ex MM's kids. When he moved out, he rarely ever saw them. He was always with me. Honestly even before he moved out he was almost always with me. And even before our A started he would stay out all the time and not go home, not until they would have been in bed I would guess, or he would go home drunk.

 

After he moved out I worried about his kids. I know the guilt wasn't/isn't mine to bear but I started having a lot of guilt that hasn't gone away, because his daughter is 15 and it made me think of how I would have felt if my dad moved out when I was 15.

 

I would ask him why he wasn't seeing his kids, was it because his wife wasn't letting him, or because he didn't want to deal with his wife, or what? He would say you are right, I need to see them, and he'd call and set something up, but then almost always it would get canceled. He would tell me his wife said his son didn't want to go biking because he had hurt his ankle, or that his son was sleeping in all day because he had been up late the night before playing video games. I began to wonder if he was looking for reasons or accepting their reasons not to see them because he would rather be with me, which made me feel guilty, or if they just didn't want to see him. And he said his daughter always said she had homework right after dinner whenever he had dinner with her. She does have a lot of homework but I wonder if they just don't like him.

 

I would die if he read that I wrote this because he says he loves his children so much. But it's like he rarely wanted to see them and/or they rarely wanted to see him. And when I told him we needed to take a break (before our final break), after resisting he finally said, "I agree that this is a good idea because I need to re-build my relationship with my kids, it's really fractured and they should be my focus." But then the next hour he would be trying to get back together with me, and I would let him, and then he would see the kids.

 

I would say, how are your kids reacting to your having moved out? I was thinking of myself at that age, I would have been furious at my dad and I would have said, really?, you are leaving us?, and I would have taken it very personally. I know my sister would have cried. I think my brother would have been in shock and not believed it. Maybe that's what happened with his kids because he said they took it very well and had almost no reaction. Maybe they knew it was coming. Maybe their mom had talked to them. I have no idea and it boggles my mind to think about it, which I probably shouldn't do, but, I am because I was reading this thread.

 

One time he went to see his daughter and said that she said, "well, it's your marriage, and if you and mom aren't happy, then get divorced." Just like that? I can't figure out if he was lying to me or if she really said that. That's the only thing he ever told me that she said about it. I got really mad at him once because he said his son was asking him about his friend, whose house he is staying out after having moved out. He said his son asked him if his friend had any pets and he said no. Then his son asked when his friend would be back home and he said "Not until January, but hopefully he will come home sooner, before Christmas." And he said his wife said, "You'll have to find another place to stay by then." I was like, you know that your son was asking when you would be home, and why would you give him hope that you will be home before Christmas if you mean what you tell me that you're getting divorced? He was like, I didn't know that's what he meant, and he was confused about why his wife would say he has to find another place to stay if she doesn't want to get divorced, and I said, because she doesn't want to give your son false hope, and you shouldn't either, or if you hope to be back home before Christmas then you should just go back now, because you are either giving your son false hope, or me false hope, and that's not fair, and I'd rather be the one with no hope and have you go back home to your son. I really thought that, I was tired of dealing with him (we were in the middle of supposedly being broken up but he was trying to get back in and then he said that which really didn't help his cause). And he just walked off angrily from me in a different direction without saying anything -- and I know it was because I had hit a nerve by pointing out that was he was doing to his son was cruel, he should have just been honest that he was gone for good, or have stayed at home if he wasn't sure, or fessed up to me that he was unsure (which I had already figured out and was trying to stay away so he could decide).

 

I know I shouldn't focus on it because I'm not with him and I'm trying to move on. But I guess I start to wonder if he was a good dad. He would talk about his kids were going to have to work hard now to get money for college because now he couldn't pay as much, and before he had always sent them to the best schools and prepared them to go to the best colleges like he did. He also mentioned that he thinks he spoiled his kids and they take things for granted and don't have to work as hard as he did for what they have. So I don't know if it was just his way to assuage his guilt but clearly he was realizing that his kids weren't going to have the same kind of lifestyle that they were used to if he left, and I guess he was trying to be okay with that. But it made me think about some of the things that everyone is discussing on here... the effects of leaving for someone else when you have kids. It made me start to see him in a bad light, even though yeah I knew he had kids when we got together so how could I blame him and not myself too? So I do blame myself too. I don't even have kids and yet I feel guilty about his kids.

 

I don't know if he was lying to protect my feelings about his kids really not being that upset, or if they really weren't that upset. How could they have not been upset? Sometimes I wonder if he is a bad father and then I feel bad because I loved him and don't want to see him in that light, and I don't know if I'm just seeing him in that light as a way to get over him, or if now I'm just looking back more clearly at who he really was... it's all very confusing. Sometimes I see him as a monster and then what does that make me?!

 

Sorry for talking so much about my own sitch; I just got off on a tangent thinking about the kid issue.

[2sure]

You know...many of us are parents here. Maybe I'm wrong or extreme but

I would NEVER do anything that deliberately threatened the emotional well being, financial security, support, education or home of my daughter. NEVER. I would do without Anything for myself before that would happen.

 

When a PARENT has an affair without any plan of action for their children...I'm sorry...its NEGLECTFUL. If your children need you , if you need to stay married so that you can afford to house & feed your children, if your spouse is such that you fear leaving your children...

 

All of those things. I mean, if you have no plan for divorce, no good active PLAN for the well being of your children...having an affair when you are pretty sure your spouse will divorce you if you are caught...

 

RISKING your children and them claiming you have to stay because you love your children???

 

Piece of Shyte.