Girls who are size ZERO and smaller look GREAT

[theBrokenMuse]

My main problem is just the fact that I love thinness and it is what makes me feel the best about myself; I like the fact I am slender, and would not be able to live bigger.

I am sorry if anything I say here is offensive, it is not meant to be at all but what I bolded there (in my opinon) is a mind set you might wish to work on changing. You have to find something else that makes you feel the 'best' about yourself that isn't about external validation because once you can see yourself as awesome without needing to touch on the physical, that stuff won't matter quite as much anymore. Our looks are but one small facet of who we are and if used as the only (or biggest) measure, you will always be wrestling with unease because of what time itself does to the human form. Once again, not trying to offend, just some friendly advice from a fat chick who has made total peace with her body and is a hell of a lot happier for it.

[porter218]

114 is my goal. What is the big deal?

 

Leigh, as you well know since are are into physical fitness, muscle weight is more dense then fat weight. You could shift your focus off the numbers and simply worry about getting more toned. You can be more thin at a toned 116 then at a less toned 114 and have looked much much better at 116. I have let my weight bounce around over the last 6 years or so enough to know how I look at different weights and levels of toned...and I know for sure I have looked more thin at higher weights sometimes just because I had more dense muscle weight. You really shouldn't set your goal for an exact weight. Between 17-19 I sounded like you too. It is a mild form of anorexia and it isn't healthy for your body or your mind. I look better now then I did back then and I weigh more now. I know I see myself now more clearly then I did back then....and looking back I realize I was in some kind of fog. I spent too much time obsessing over a silly little number when I could have worried about other things. Now I don't spend a moment of my day worrying about it and I can trust my body. I hope you wake up from your fog like I did.

 

And I hope Green doesn't post something irresponsible like this again. This is only a thinly veiled attempt to boost his ego and to stir the pot. And another note: What will Green do if he and his gf get M and decide to have kids? His words may just turn around to bite him in the a$$. While she might like his size obsession now, I doubt she will appreciate it too much during pregnancy.

Edited October 17, 2010 by porter218

[counterman]

I agree with what theBrokenMuse said. Once I got over that external validation phase, I can honestly say I was a lot happier. Not because I wasn't getting positive feedback from people, but because I stopped caring about what others thought. It took be a while to get there... a lot of hurt... a lot of loss friendship, but I'm here.

 

I would mention my friend who's about 5'4" or a bit more. She was stunning. Absolutely. Her sister entered pageants and she well could have competed herself. She had a heart of gold personality to match it as well. However, keeping it up got too much for her and she just let go. She is overweight now. I think that's the most noticeable difference about her, since I hadn't seen her for a long time. But, guess what? She was the same old, lovely person. Her face, albeit a littler chubbier, was still gorgeous. She was absolutely comfortable with herself and everyone else was too.

 

What I am trying to say is, there's more to us than our weight. She would have definitely looked better thinner, IMO, but that thought disappeared almost straight away seeing how happy she was with who she was.

 

If YOU are happy with the way YOU look, and do NOT care about what anyone else thinks, that's all that matters.

[loverofloveandstuff]

counterman - I like what you said, but I think it's impossible to 'not care what other people think.' As human beings we're all interdependent on one another and as a result, it's only natural that the way we are influenced, and even merge the way we act to be 'accepted.' I want people to have the best view possible of me. I want people to think I'm a good person. For Leigh, she wants to be thin because she believes she is the most beautiful and her best self when she is thin.

[brainygirl]

counterman - I like what you said, but I think it's impossible to 'not care what other people think.' As human beings we're all interdependent on one another and as a result, it's only natural that the way we are influenced, and even merge the way we act to be 'accepted.' I want people to have the best view possible of me. I want people to think I'm a good person. For Leigh, she wants to be thin because she believes she is the most beautiful and her best self when she is thin.

 

 

But there is MORE to being your own best self than being thin people!

[mickleb]

People who are more interested in other people's PERSONALITIES than their weight, are GREAT.

 

x

[theBrokenMuse]

counterman - I like what you said, but I think it's impossible to 'not care what other people think.'

It's hard, not impossible.

 

As human beings we're all interdependent on one another and as a result, it's only natural that the way we are influenced, and even merge the way we act to be 'accepted.'

This is what's referred to as the 'herd mentality'.

 

I want people to have the best view possible of me. I want people to think I'm a good person.

You are allowing others to project their feelings of you onto your own values and determination of your self-worth. To an extent we do need to be able to take in the responses of others around us because we need to see if their is any validity in their feedback but there is a big difference between that evaluation and adopting the common perception of others as your own.The former keeps their own identity and makes adjustments as they feel is warranted in accordance with their own personal ideologies and the latter strives to morph into that which they feel will get the best response from those whose approval is being sought. The latter allows people to lose all sense of self and can be extremely destructive.

 

For Leigh, she wants to be thin because she believes she is the most beautiful and her best self when she is thin.

IMO, it honestly sounds like it's because she is allowing popular culture to determine that factor for her. She is placing her value in what she thinks other people would value in her and it puts people in a very unhealthy place emotionally and mentally to do so.

[loverofloveandstuff]

It's hard, not impossible.

 

 

Is it only when we don't care what other people think that we are internally validated?

[brainygirl]

Is it only when we don't care what other people think that we are internally validated?

 

External loci of control cannot translate into internal validation.

 

For example: I have a favorite pair of jeans. I like them because I like the way I look in them, they are comfortable, and they look nice. I am internally validated in regards to how I look in the jeans.

 

Now say my best friend looks at the jeans and says "brainy, they give you muffin tops" if I were someone who sought external validation I would be crushed, my favorite jeans make me look fat - and probably wouldn't wear them again.

 

However, because I am an internally validated person, I can remember that my best friend is quite a bit heavier than I am and tends to wear all her clothes very loose, so anything that fits properly seems too small to her. I know the jeans fit fine and look fine, and decide just to not wear them around her.

 

Another example: I had a baby as a teenager. If I cared what others said and thought of me I would have done what they predicted I'd do - drop out of school, live on welfare, and have five or six babies by five or six men.

 

But I am internally validated. I know my choices haven't always been the best, but that I can make the best of them. I know that my past does not have to determine my future.

 

When you give others power to decide if you are good or bad, or pretty or ugly, you give away your own ability to control your life.

 

Don't give your power away to shallow fools like Green. He isn't worth it, or worthy of it.

[loverofloveandstuff]

Okay, I getcha. I guess it would be fair to say that I'm 'internally validated' or confident in some facets of my life, but not in others.

 

Sorry to sidetrack thread by the way.

[theBrokenMuse]

Is it only when we don't care what other people think that we are internally validated?

When I say don't care, I don't mean an automatic dismissal or that it has no affect on us at all - we are not robots. We all feel something about how we are treated by and interact with the world outside our own heads. What I mean is that people who are seeking validation are basing their decisions upon an emotional payoff (approval or avoiding rejection) whereas someone who doesn't care enough about what other people think to value that emotional payoff are much more likely to follow their own personal inclinations.

Edited October 17, 2010 by theBrokenMuse

[stillafool]

It is really sad. Why can't we teach our daughters that being "pretty" is not what's important in life. I went to a barbque last weekend and a friend of mine's daughter was there. She is 19 and absolutely stunning. She has it all, hair, skin, body, height, etc., but she seems so unaware of her beauty. She was playing with the little kids while all the young men were drolling over her and she was so unaffected. I was telling her mom how refreshing it is to see a beautiful girl who doesn't know it. Her mother told me they never praised her for her looks, they never even told her she was pretty but always told her how smart she is, how kind she is, how talented she is. She sad when their daughter was dressed they always said "you look nice" never "you're so pretty". Maybe parents need to stop placing so much emphasis on "pretty" when it comes to their daughters. Maybe girls should be told that there will always be someone better looking, but there is only one person like them. Teach them that looks fade but; what they bring to this world is different than any other person and to spend time trying to find and develop those unique talents.

 

 

Whether girls are thin or overweight it will not stop someone from falling in love and marrying them because people are attracted to all body types and personalities.

[threebyfate]

It is really sad. Why can't we teach our daughters that being "pretty" is not what's important in life. I went to a barbque last weekend and a friend of mine's daughter was there. She is 19 and absolutely stunning. She has it all, hair, skin, body, height, etc., but she seems so unaware of her beauty. She was playing with the little kids while all the young men were drolling over her and she was so unaffected. I was telling her mom how refreshing it is to see a beautiful girl who doesn't know it. Her mother told me they never praised her for her looks, they never even told her she was pretty but always told her how smart she is, how kind she is, how talented she is. She sad when their daughter was dressed they always said "you look nice" never "you're so pretty". Maybe parents need to stop placing so much emphasis on "pretty" when it comes to their daughters. Maybe girls should be told that there will always be someone better looking, but there is only one person like them. Teach them that looks fade but; what they bring to this world is different than any other person and to spend time trying to find and develop those unique talents.

 

 

Whether girls are thin or overweight it will not stop someone from falling in love and marrying them because people are attracted to all body types and personalities.

I don't agree that parents should avoid the pretty label, as long as it's realistic. You don't want to create someone who has an unrealistic self-image, including the physical.

[anne1707]

I don't agree that parents should avoid the pretty label, as long as it's realistic. You don't want to create someone who has an unrealistic self-image, including the physical.

 

 

Seriously not trying to be awkward here but on the above basis, what would you suggest to parents with two daughters one of whom is pretty and the other plain? Does one get told she's pretty whilst the other doesn't? That too could have a detrimental effect on both children.

[stillafool]

Seriously not trying to be awkward here but on the above basis, what would you suggest to parents with two daughters one of whom is pretty and the other plain? Does one get told she's pretty whilst the other doesn't? That too could have a detrimental effect on both children.

 

Exactly! We need to take that pressure off girls.

[sally4sara]

Someone told me the resident pedo has disappeared so I thought I'd peek in. This thread caught me eye.

 

I am just shy of 5'3" and use to be a stripper for a female review promotion agency. At the height of my physical fitness, when I was being approached by magazines for photo spreads, I weighed 112 and had yet to have a child. My measurements were 36c, 25 1/2" waistline and 37" at the hip. I was very strong but not anywhere near looking musclebound and I am fine boned rather than heavy boned. I have never ever ever fit in a size zero past the age of 12.

Today, 14 years and one child later, I am 120lbs and no one has ever called me anything other than tiny, small, trim, petite etc. I am a size 12/14 in a dress pattern using the 14 size for bust and hip and tailoring it into a size 12 at the waist.

 

For someone to be 5'7" and a true size zero, they would have no breasts, and even if their hips had a wide span from a front view, they would have nothing going on in the buttocks from a side view. I'm holding in my hand as I type this, a Vogue catsuit pattern from the 70s when Twiggy and "coke thin" was all the rage. A size six is listed as measurements of 30 1/2" bustline, 23" waistline, 32 1/2" hipline. And it is a standard pattern; not a petite pattern since petite is for no taller than 5'3". Let me refer to a retro pattern from the 50s for comparison. Same measurements. And further, I'll refer to one from today. Again, same measurements.

 

One would think if you're going to go form a special interest concerning sizing and women, enough to post about it multiple times, you'd educate yourself on the subject. Retail clothing is as much about marketing as it is fashion and fit. And they want women to wear their clothing happily. So sizing something as a zero on one rack and sizing it as a size 10 on another is going to result in the size zero dresses getting bought much faster than the ones with true sizing lables.

[porter218]

Today, 14 years and one child later, I am 120lbs and no one has ever called me anything other than tiny, small, trim, petite etc. I am a size 12/14 in a dress pattern using the 14 size for bust and hip and tailoring it into a size 12 at the waist.

 

For someone to be 5'7" and a true size zero, they would have no breasts, and even if their hips had a wide span from a front view, they would have nothing going on in the buttocks from a side view. I'm holding in my hand as I type this, a Vogue catsuit pattern from the 70s when Twiggy and "coke thin" was all the rage. A size six is listed as measurements of 30 1/2" bustline, 23" waistline, 32 1/2" hipline. And it is a standard pattern; not a petite pattern since petite is for no taller than 5'3". Let me refer to a retro pattern from the 50s for comparison. Same measurements. And further, I'll refer to one from today. Again, same measurements.

 

See... that is crazy. Why on Gods green earth has vanity sizing gotten so out of control. I am 5'5" and wearing a size 0 from Banana Republic today and after reading this I begin to wonder...'well what the f*** size is it really?'. I am slender but not rail thin. I have curves in all the right places. And to make it all more confusing my mother has always been nicknamed 'beanpole' because she is tall and very slender. She is 5'9" and I think she wears a size 6. She is of a slightly different body type then me because she is more of the rail thin type and I have more of an athletic build. So even though she has no butt and very skinny legs she still wears a pants size that is 6 sizes bigger then mine. It just doesn't add up....non of it. The sizing system is all cr@p. I am about to check out patterns just to see what I would be without vanity sizing:laugh:.

[sally4sara]

I am 5'5" and wearing a size 0 from Banana Republic today and after reading this I begin to wonder...'well what the f*** size is it really?'

 

I looked up the measurements for size zero on line and they fall within an half inch of the dress pattern size 10 for Vogue; a company that has been making patterns for over 100 years. Size 10 is 32 1/2" bust, 25" waist, and 34 1/2" hips.

My best guess is Green's GF is a true size 8 dress at the smallest, but most likely a size 10 to not be experiencing fainting spells if she is 5'7".

[brainygirl]

I looked up the measurements for size zero on line and they fall within an half inch of the dress pattern size 10 for Vogue; a company that has been making patterns for over 100 years. Size 10 is 32 1/2" bust, 25" waist, and 34 1/2" hips.

My best guess is Green's GF is a true size 8 dress at the smallest, but most likely a size 10 to not be experiencing fainting spells if she is 5'7".

 

But, isn't it more important that she's healthy and strong and beautiful in the eyes of the person who loves her than what size she wears? Is it really THAT important? (aside from it being a pia to buy clothes when you can't predict how the sizes will fit)

[threebyfate]

Seriously not trying to be awkward here but on the above basis, what would you suggest to parents with two daughters one of whom is pretty and the other plain? Does one get told she's pretty whilst the other doesn't? That too could have a detrimental effect on both children.

I'm going to turn this around on you. If one daughter is intellectually gifted and the other isn't, would you minimalise the gifted daughter to save the feelings of the ungifted one? Or would you encourage both towards their strengths since the intellectually ungifted one more than likely has one or more strengths in other capacities? I would encourage both towards their own personal strengths, rather than minimalise one as a compensatory parental tool.

[sally4sara]

But, isn't it more important that she's healthy and strong and beautiful in the eyes of the person who loves her than what size she wears? Is it really THAT important? (aside from it being a pia to buy clothes when you can't predict how the sizes will fit)

 

No. Its more important that she be healthy, strong, and beautiful in the eyes that sit in her face and the eyes of her doctor than those of anyone else IMO. Love wouldn't ask that you starve yourself. I'm not saying green asks that of her, just that one shouldn't try to alter their body just for the sexual approval of anyone if it conflicts with their health or their own preference.

 

It doesn't matter what size the tag says. If it fits - it fits.

[Chubbi]

In threads like these, the most that happens is the women start comparing each other based on statistics.

 

Woman 1: Oh yes, I am 18 pounds and I have the best breasts.

Woman 2: No, no hunny. I've gotten bigger but I still look hott-ness.

 

 

Who are you women trying to convince? Is this what self-esteem comes from? Having the best stats? And most of you women are older than meee!!! And most of you women would roll your eyes if guys got into a p**ng match about whose c*** is the biggest. Well, look at here, you do the same thing.

 

 

Everytime I read threads like these, it makes me wonder about the OP. So, Green, why don't you tell us your stats? How hot are you? Are you in shape? Do you run cross country? I really like the cross country runners.

 

The way he describes his girlfriend... it's almost likes he derives his self-esteem from her. Oh yes, my gf is what everyone thinks is beautiful therefore, I must be beautiful myself. You'll never find happiness like that my friend.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Chubbi

[40 Fonzarelli]

I'd pick the size 14 girl

http://pinkmsg.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/majthreegirls_wideweb__470x3930.jpg

[that girl]

To me, vanity sizing is a non-issue.

 

The concept of real sizes based on what patterns from the 40s or 60s say is silly. The numbers were somewhat arbitrary because prior to the 20s most women wore handmade clothing. Standard sizing is not some gospel.

 

As sizes have gotten bigger, the size a woman who is thin is expected to wear has also gotten thinner. A 10 used to be considered slim, now a 0 or a 2 is considered slim. Some of Marilyn Monroe's clothing was actually laebelled a size 14, but that would be more like a 10 in today's sizing.

 

None of it matters. A healthy weight woman is at a healthy weight regardless of what the label says.

 

I do think it is interesting that a thread that was started to praise women who wear a size zero or smaller didn't turn into a fat bashing thread the way the OP seems to have intended. Though last I checked only one or two bridal companies even make a size zero as bridal fashion has less vanity sizing most companies don't go below a 2.

[Mad Max]

I'd pick the size 14 girl

http://pinkmsg.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/majthreegirls_wideweb__470x3930.jpg

 

 

Same here.