Girls who are size ZERO and smaller look GREAT

[threebyfate]

I can't take responsibility for peoples body issues. I think its sad that you think I should keep quite about liking women who arn't fat because it will cause anorexia. I don't like the way anorexic women look. I like the way women who eat 4-5 meals a day and work out (a little bit but not to much) look. It's actualy a really easy body to achieve for young women who don't eat/drink processed foods and do a small amount of physical activities.

Straight up Green, I think you have serious issues when it comes to women. Why the need to control, even down to the level of what size and shape women should be? You have zero concern about health. If you're honest, it's all about looks and control. I can guess why but I'm not going to post it beyond saying it's a foundational issue. Think long and hard about why you need to control women, particularly when it comes to their bodies, sexuality and paternity.

[Green]

Yeah, well, isn't your girlfriend medically underweight according to the BMI? (And no, I'm not hating on her - but seriously? Not something to shoot for. ) And not that the BMI is perfect but a woman who's 5'8" can weigh as much as 164 pounds and still not be overweight, much less "fat."

 

My gf looks great and is very healthy. 160 lbs isn't for me.

 

I can understand why he would be upset about people mistreating his girlfriend but the post wasn't composed to show offense about his girlfriend being wronged as much as it was to quickly transition into the whole spiel about how women should be and how hideous he thinks fat women look as opposed to his preferred type, yada, yada, yada. It's just wash, rinse and repeat with these bashing threads. Hell, not even the insults are new.

 

your comments are rinse and repeat.

 

Straight up Green, I think you have serious issues when it comes to women. Why the need to control, even down to the level of what size and shape women should be? You have zero concern about health. If you're honest, it's all about looks and control. I can guess why but I'm not going to post it beyond saying it's a foundational issue. Think long and hard about why you need to control women, particularly when it comes to their bodies, sexuality and paternity.

 

I believe you have seriouse issues and you seem to take them out on me by personafying me with them.

[threebyfate]

I believe you have seriouse issues and you seem to take them out on me by personafying me with them.

That's a defensive reaction. Think about why you need to control women's bodies and their sexuality. Think.

[theBrokenMuse]

your comments are rinse and repeat.

How can they change when what I am commenting on is staler than last year's fruitcake?

[Surrealist]

Fruitcake is fattening.

[theBrokenMuse]

Fruitcake is fattening.

Is it? I don't even know what's in that stuff but it doesn't look fruit-like to me... or even food like for that matter. Seriously, I've never had anyone send me one of those things but I hear they are as heavy as a brick too. They almost scare me as much as spam!

[sanskrit]

Wanted to comment that the current standard of male "hotness" (< 10% body fat, six pack, way above average musculature, tall) is INFINITELY more difficult to achieve, if not impossible for many men, than for a woman to achieve a small dress size relative to her frame, yet when women post pictures of these types of guys, or describe such preferences in threads as they do very often here, the acrimony doesn't tend to blossom as when guys state that they prefer small women.

 

Why is that?

[sanskrit]

Is it? I don't even know what's in that stuff but it doesn't look fruit-like to me... or even food like for that matter. Seriously, I've never had anyone send me one of those things but I hear they are as heavy as a brick too. They almost scare me as much as spam!

 

Homemade fruitcake made with high quality ingredients is incredibly delicious.

 

The Fruitcake Council

Edited October 18, 2010 by sanskrit

[Star Gazer]

Wanted to comment that the current standard of male "hotness" (< 10% body fat, six pack, way above average musculature, tall) is INFINITELY more difficult to achieve, if not impossible for many men, than for a woman to achieve a small dress size relative to her frame, yet when women post pictures of these types of guys, or describe such preferences in threads as they do very often here, the acrimony doesn't tend to blossom as when guys state that they prefer small women.

 

Why is that?

 

That's not the current standard of male hotness...not by a mile. That's merely LEIGH's standard.

[anne1707]

TBF

 

I asked a question specifically relating to the "prettiness" of 2 daughters:

 

Seriously not trying to be awkward here but on the above basis, what would you suggest to parents with two daughters one of whom is pretty and the other plain? Does one get told she's pretty whilst the other doesn't? That too could have a detrimental effect on both children.

 

You tried to bring in other factors:

 

I'm going to turn this around on you. If one daughter is intellectually gifted and the other isn't, would you minimalise the gifted daughter to save the feelings of the ungifted one? Or would you encourage both towards their strengths since the intellectually ungifted one more than likely has one or more strengths in other capacities? I would encourage both towards their own personal strengths, rather than minimalise one as a compensatory parental tool.

 

I again tried to focus on looks:

 

You are trying to avoid the potential conflict here. My post was based on the concept of both daughters being equal on all but looks just to keep it simple and fairly on subject.

 

I would want to encourage both to reach for the stars. What would you want?

 

Yet I get accused of shifting perspective:

 

She shifted the perspective from the first post to the second. I responded to her first post. Her second post was unrealistic. I might as well answer a question about having one pink elephant for a child and one blue elephant.

 

As far as letting a plain or ugly child know they were plain/ugly. No. I would encourage their strengths, rather than insult them unnecessarily. For the child who's attractive, I would also encourage her strengths.

 

Not sure why this is such a difficult concept to understand. It's not rocket science.

 

 

Back to my initial question - whilst being simplistic, it is not unrealistic to have a situation where 2 girls have similar levels of ability and talents yet one to be noticably prettier. You have stated that you would let a pretty girl know that she is pretty and would not tell the plain girl that she is plain. I am trying to imagine the conversation when they are getting ready to go out and you make a point of telling one that they look pretty whilst the other is told that they look nice. How would that make the less attractive girl feel? To see their sister being praised on her looks whilst she gets nothing. That to me could undermine her confidence and sense of worth.

 

I also believe in encouraging children to reach for the stars as I put it. They should be encouraged to dream and believe whilst also being given a strong foundation to give them the ability to realistically achieve success in life. They may not reach the stars but why tell them straight off that they can never have what they want. Why set them up as a failure before they have even started in life.

[tami-chan]

Is it? I don't even know what's in that stuff but it doesn't look fruit-like to me... or even food like for that matter. Seriously, I've never had anyone send me one of those things but I hear they are as heavy as a brick too. They almost scare me as much as spam!

 

Fruitcake is really not a cake..it's a door stopper.

[Leigh 87]

That's not the current standard of male hotness...not by a mile. That's merely LEIGH's standard.

 

I like men who are well built and strong, and who work out. They do not need to be like the body builder i slept with. he has a very well sculpted body because he specifically trains folr it.

 

I do not ONLY think guys like him, with NO body fat, are hot. I think that men who work out are hot - men who take care of themselves.

 

My only criteria for finding men hot, is that they work out. otherwise I c annot find a man sexually attractive, if they have a very soft body.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Wanted to comment that the current standard of male "hotness" (< 10% body fat, six pack, way above average musculature, tall) is INFINITELY more difficult to achieve, if not impossible for many men, than for a woman to achieve a small dress size relative to her frame, yet when women post pictures of these types of guys, or describe such preferences in threads as they do very often here, the acrimony doesn't tend to blossom as when guys state that they prefer small women.

Why is that?

 

Yup.

 

That's not the current standard of male hotness...not by a mile. That's merely LEIGH's standard.

 

Just glancing through a magazine or two... I'd say it's pretty standard.

 

 

Back to my initial question - whilst being simplistic, it is not unrealistic to have a situation where 2 girls have similar levels of ability and talents yet one to be noticably prettier. You have stated that you would let a pretty girl know that she is pretty and would not tell the plain girl that she is plain. I am trying to imagine the conversation when they are getting ready to go out and you make a point of telling one that they look pretty whilst the other is told that they look nice. How would that make the less attractive girl feel? To see their sister being praised on her looks whilst she gets nothing. That to me could undermine her confidence and sense of worth.

I also believe in encouraging children to reach for the stars as I put it. They should be encouraged to dream and believe whilst also being given a strong foundation to give them the ability to realistically achieve success in life. They may not reach the stars but why tell them straight off that they can never have what they want. Why set them up as a failure before they have even started in life.

 

Ok... really interesting point.

 

Bottom line... as they interact with the world they will get a strong dose of how attractive or not they are with or without you.

 

As a parent your job is to create the type of self fulfilling prophecies that will help them succeed.

 

You have a plain looking daughter, teach her how to apply makeup... but even more important teach her that looks do not determine who she is, nor her value to men or society.

 

You have a pretty daughter, teach her that sometime other people will only value her based on her looks, and that isn't acceptable. Teach her that her true value to men and to society lies in who she is and what she does... not how she looks.

[LittleTiger]

I like men who are well built and strong, and who work out. They do not need to be like the body builder i slept with. he has a very well sculpted body because he specifically trains folr it.

 

I do not ONLY think guys like him, with NO body fat, are hot. I think that men who work out are hot - men who take care of themselves.

 

My only criteria for finding men hot, is that they work out. otherwise I c annot find a man sexually attractive, if they have a very soft body.

 

Leigh, should you ever achieve that physical perfection you so desire and manage to 'hook' a 'hot man' who is also physically perfect in your eyes, you are both going to be so obsessed with mainting your own looks that you really won't have the time or the energy to form a meaningful relationship.

 

I feel very sorry for you. If you are unable to learn to value yourself and others based on more than looks, weight or physique, then you are going to be very unhappy in older life when age takes away beauty and physical perfection.

 

There is so much more to life - I find it so sad reading your posts.

[BS76]

A lot of the heavy women look mis-shapen and very unhealthy on the other hand! I think that is the bigger problem by far.

 

You think? Obesity rates are at epidemic proportions. Americans on average are squarely in the "overweight" category. The average height for American women IIRC is 5'4" and their average weight is 164.3lbs. To put that into context that's about 20lbs heavier than the healthy average weight for a man at that same height!

[theBrokenMuse]

Fruitcake is really not a cake..it's a door stopper.

I would not be surprised if someone was bludgeoned to death with one... It takes those 'Death By' kind of desserts to a whole new level.

[prettybaby]

My gf is 5'7. I also agree that only if it comes naturaly to them and doesn't involve something unatural and dangerous to their health. A lot of young girls teenagers and early twenties have no problem being a size zero if they just lay off the junk (fast food, soda, candy, processed foods)

Are we talking about American size zero? And what brands exactly? Designer clothes run smaller than department store clothes, so a size zero high end dress is a completely different size than a size zero JC Penney dress.

 

I'm very skinny (as you can see in my avatar picture), I'm 5'8" tall, I weigh 118 pounds, and my wardrobe consists of everything ranging from a zero or extra small to LARGE. There are soooo many brands out there that have completely different sizings, it would be impossible to stick to one size for all brands, because a size 0 Nanette Lepore doesn't equal a size 0 Victoria Secret ....

 

Are you seriously stuck on the exact number ZERO? Or did you just poorly word your statement? I doubt your girlfriend's wardrobe is filled with only size zero clothes, unless she buys her entire wardrobe from one brand.

 

Vanity sizing was invented for a reason ...

[harmfulsweetz]

See, I personally do not like how size zero looks on some women, some of them look gaunt, and frankly ill. That is just me, then again, there are those that carry it well because it's natural to them. I have a bit more meat on my bones shall we say, I'm a UK size 10-12, which is below the average, and yeah, could do with losing it. I looked best at a UK size 8, which I think is a US size 2 or 4?

 

Every woman is different, some look fantastic on the thinner side, others not so much. It's all about what is natural to the woman herself. If she must starve to maintain that weight, then she's not healthy and not being natural, and accepting her shape and size. If she's naturally like that, fab.

[threebyfate]

TBF

 

I asked a question specifically relating to the "prettiness" of 2 daughters:

 

You tried to bring in other factors:

 

I again tried to focus on looks:

 

Yet I get accused of shifting perspective:

I use a lot of analogies and metaphors in my postings since to me, when doing so, it sometimes gives the other poster another way of looking at things. It's part of how I think and it's not very hard to follow but if people are having difficulties, I can try to explain.

 

As far as my "accusation" of you shifting perspectives, what you've done is take a wide scenario in your first post and narrowed down the criteria to the point where IMO, it's unrealistic. I honestly don't know two same gender siblings that are so equal or similar, where you can do that kind of comparison. Even members on LS. There aren't two I can think of that are similar to equal in all things but looks.

 

Back to my initial question - whilst being simplistic, it is not unrealistic to have a situation where 2 girls have similar levels of ability and talents yet one to be noticably prettier. You have stated that you would let a pretty girl know that she is pretty and would not tell the plain girl that she is plain. I am trying to imagine the conversation when they are getting ready to go out and you make a point of telling one that they look pretty whilst the other is told that they look nice. How would that make the less attractive girl feel? To see their sister being praised on her looks whilst she gets nothing. That to me could undermine her confidence and sense of worth.

I can't utilize your second post scenario since to me, it's unrealistic. So I will respond to this as if the imaginary daughters were unequal in looks and other things.

 

If they had both put effort into how they look, I would tell them as such.

 

"Wow, you both put some effort into getting ready and look wonderful!"

 

This would be a truth, since this compliment is paid to each at their individual levels of effort v. non-effort (sweats and a t-shirt, no makeup, hair a mess). There's no need to put one up against the other, since it creates a sense of competition, whether equal or unequal in looks.

 

In private, I would be having discussions with the significantly more attractive daughter about the pros and cons with her attractiveness level and wouldn't hesitate to compliment her but not all the time, without making reference to the other daughter.

 

In private, I would be having discussions with the less attractive daughter about the pros and cons of her personal strengths.

 

I also believe in encouraging children to reach for the stars as I put it. They should be encouraged to dream and believe whilst also being given a strong foundation to give them the ability to realistically achieve success in life. They may not reach the stars but why tell them straight off that they can never have what they want. Why set them up as a failure before they have even started in life.

I believe in a sense of realism, hedging bets. If a child has an IQ of 50, I wouldn't be encouraging them to become the leader of any free country or brain surgeon. Same goes for a child who's body type isn't right to be a high couture fashion model. In those instances, that's irresponsible parenting to encourage the unrealistic.

[Taramere]

In private, I would be having discussions with the significantly more attractive daughter about the pros and cons with her attractiveness level and wouldn't hesitate to compliment her but not all the time, without making reference to the other daughter.

 

That sounds realistic. It's a matter of tact and discretion....and these things don't just apply where you have two children who are sisters. I have a niece and nephew who are twins and therefore fluctuate between being fiercely protective of eachother and fiercely competitive with eachother. There are some things that they're both good at, and other areas in which one is strong and the other weak.

 

Constantly, you find yourself balancing encouraging one without leaving the other feeling "not good enough". It can all be affected by the individual child's temperament (more sensitive ones being more vulnerable to that "I'm not good enough" feeling), the mood they're in and whether they've had some setback that results in them being more alert to any "he/she is better than you" messages. Kids being what they are, they won't hesitate to let you know if you're not getting the balance right...and they'll also help you to get the balance right for them as individuals.

 

I agree with you, though, that the adults around a child have a responsibility to help them to be aware of their strengths. It's a competitive world, and children need to be instilled with a fair bit of confidence in order to take it on.

[Green]

Are we talking about American size zero? And what brands exactly? Designer clothes run smaller than department store clothes, so a size zero high end dress is a completely different size than a size zero JC Penney dress.

 

I'm very skinny (as you can see in my avatar picture), I'm 5'8" tall, I weigh 118 pounds, and my wardrobe consists of everything ranging from a zero or extra small to LARGE. There are soooo many brands out there that have completely different sizings, it would be impossible to stick to one size for all brands, because a size 0 Nanette Lepore doesn't equal a size 0 Victoria Secret ....

 

Are you seriously stuck on the exact number ZERO? Or did you just poorly word your statement? I doubt your girlfriend's wardrobe is filled with only size zero clothes, unless she buys her entire wardrobe from one brand.

 

Vanity sizing was invented for a reason ...

 

I'm not stuck on the size zero. It's just that my gf was at a fitting for a bridesmaid dress when this all happened and she was below a size zero when being measured for the dress and it prompted nasty coments.

 

I really could care less what size her clothing are. The fact is I enjoy slender curvy bodies and could care less if a girl has fat or how much she weighs. The reality is though that a 5'5 girl for example who weighs over 160 probably isn't going to look curvy.

 

This thread is really about my frustration of people who go up to what I consider perfect looking women and tell them "eat more" or "gain weight" in a nasty way.

 

I don't think anorexics look good. I also don't think rudely going up to some one with an eating disorder and saying "skinny girls need to eat" or some other nasty coment is going to help.

 

The point of my post is slender women look great and many of them are healthy and eat well.

[anne1707]

I use a lot of analogies and metaphors in my postings since to me, when doing so, it sometimes gives the other poster another way of looking at things. It's part of how I think and it's not very hard to follow but if people are having difficulties, I can try to explain.

 

I have no difficulty at all in understanding you thank you very much

 

 

As far as my "accusation" of you shifting perspectives, what you've done is take a wide scenario in your first post and narrowed down the criteria to the point where IMO, it's unrealistic. I honestly don't know two same gender siblings that are so equal or similar, where you can do that kind of comparison. Even members on LS. There aren't two I can think of that are similar to equal in all things but looks.

 

You actually posted that I had shifted perspectives - that is more than an accusation . I also don't think I "shifted" - both times I posted making reference to looks only. You tried to bring in other perspectives (such as intelligence), not me.

 

As for my scenario being unrealistic, I was purely trying to understand how you would treat the girls based on how you said you would praise a pretty girl. To understand that, other differences have to be excluded. As for LS members - do you claim to know all about us?

 

 

I can't utilize your second post scenario since to me, it's unrealistic. So I will respond to this as if the imaginary daughters were unequal in looks and other things.

 

If they had both put effort into how they look, I would tell them as such.

 

"Wow, you both put some effort into getting ready and look wonderful!"

 

This would be a truth, since this compliment is paid to each at their individual levels of effort v. non-effort (sweats and a t-shirt, no makeup, hair a mess). There's no need to put one up against the other, since it creates a sense of competition, whether equal or unequal in looks.

 

Fine - this makes sense

 

 

In private, I would be having discussions with the significantly more attractive daughter about the pros and cons with her attractiveness level and wouldn't hesitate to compliment her but not all the time, without making reference to the other daughter.

 

In private, I would be having discussions with the less attractive daughter about the pros and cons of her personal strengths.

 

But children will talk to each other. Children are also pretty smart on picking up on different treatment between siblings.

 

I believe in a sense of realism, hedging bets. If a child has an IQ of 50, I wouldn't be encouraging them to become the leader of any free country or brain surgeon. Same goes for a child who's body type isn't right to be a high couture fashion model. In those instances, that's irresponsible parenting to encourage the unrealistic.

 

You misunderstand what I mean by reach for the stars (plus I did state that there should be a foundation for realistic success e.g. education, emotional support, discipline). Children should be encouraged to use their imagination and develop aspirations so that their natural talents can be developed and possibly used in later life. Brain surgeons were children once after all.

 

 

Edit: I'm out of here now. This is becoming a t/j and I am not after that.

Edited October 18, 2010 by anne1707
Stopping a t/j

[LittleTiger]

This thread is really about my frustration of people who go up to what I consider perfect looking women and tell them "eat more" or "gain weight" in a nasty way.

 

Then perhaps you should have posted this thread in the 'personal rants' section of the forum because it doesn't, in any way, relate to dating.

 

In the dating section is comes across as 'women who are size zero or less are more attractive' which, as I said before, is extremely irresponsible and suggests that you are somehow seeking validation for your girlfriend's extra small size.

 

I suspect that this was actually your intention and you knew that posting under 'dating' would get the thread considerably more 'coverage'. Shame on you.

[MrNate]

So what are we supposed to take from this again?

[theBrokenMuse]

So what are we supposed to take from this again?

No freakin' clue.

Edited October 18, 2010 by theBrokenMuse