Why Not Separate????????????????

[Spark1111]

Okay, I am willing to concede that leaving an unhappy marriage is not always simple.

 

But why not speak of your unhappiness and separate?

 

That is the part I cannot wrap my head around.

 

That is the part that for me, is either breathtakingly selfish, or cowardly and controlling.

 

Why NOT separate first?

 

Then explore your feelings for another?

 

Then I get to do the same, with no lying and secrecy and betrayal.

 

We could go to marriage counseling during this process, to see if there is a marriage worth saving.

 

AND, if we do decide to reconcile, there is no shame or guilt or humiliation to be experienced in the court of public and personal opinion.

 

So why not make separation an option to both parties when the strong pull of attraction is experienced with a person outside the marriage?

 

Thoughts?

[carhill]

We did, for a number of months, concurrent with MC, but our psychologist was firmly against separation, believing it to be a clear path to divorce. We separated more permanently after buying a second residence. Perhaps my situation was an anomaly, in that it was disclosed and transparent. There was no long deception, no D-day. I did all my agonizing before making an unhealthy choice.

 

I can say, without exception, that all the woman who have disclosed affairs to me have never been separated. This would include, but not be limited to, any who have had affairs with me. An affair is defined as a long-term betrayal of the marital trust and priority. As per LS, it can be sexual or emotional or both.

 

Having far more information and 'public opinion' now, I strongly believe my ex was one of those women, one who never did and never would disclose to her husband her betrayals, preserving the appearance that they never happened. It is an effective method. Women have taught me a lot, especially regarding the parameters of choosing a healthy partner.

 

For myself, having learned these things, I will *choose* to remain in a marriage, remain faithful to the marriage and work on the marriage together, while living together, until the matters are resolved or irreconcilable differences occur. If I separate, it will be to get a divorce. Life's too short, especially at my age. Pre-nup, fidelity, and either it works or it doesn't. No waffling, no affairs.

 

I trust there is a separation path which works for others. I wish them well.

[blizzard]

There are so many answers or justifications.

 

1. Seperation usually ends in divorce.

2. Kids are involved. Dividing a family is tough.

3. Vows.

4. Most marital problems are one-sided. Meaning someone is getting hurt or having the finger pointed at them...blame.

5. Finances

6. Fear of change

 

I could go on...as you see it's just a bad situation to be in period. And there is so much to lose. I understand what you are saying though. Take and test the waters...see where your heart lies.

 

I believe many do speak of their unhappiness in marriage. And at times it may not always be verbally expressed. Married couples can be poor receptors and communicators.

When you seperate and you try soul searching...you can't go back to where you were in your relationship. It's as if it has been tainted. I suppose many regard seperation as regressing back to the single life. So it is frowned upon. Society sets a standard. That married couples are just that. United. And should work together to overcome any obstacle...any conflict...or situation in a relationship. Many believe "how can I work on us when we are not together?"

 

I am going through a seperation now...if you call it that. It has been ongoing for a year and a half now. At first we tried being apart, but my husband could not stay away from his home nor his kids. This lasted for two weeks. It was awful for him. The MC suggested our seperation. She said that I needed breathing room for the anger and resentment I housed. He wouldn't allow it. He demanded his way back into the house. Now, we are still in the same home...with our children. And it is NOT easy. And nothing has changed. He lives on one side. Me on the other.

 

Like carhill, my IC (psychologist) also said that seperation always ends in divorce. She also stated that MC fails as well. That most couples that seek MC already have their mind made up to divorce.

Edited October 18, 2010 by blizzard

[carhill]

Like carhill, my IC (psychologist) also said that seperation always ends in divorce. She also stated that MC fails as well. That most couples that seek MC already have their mind made up to divorce.

I can't speak for my ex-wife, but I entered MC, paid for it and stuck with it for over a year because I wanted to recover the M if we could resolve differences which were obviating our respective elemental needs being met. Note I said *our*. We each had responsibility.

 

FWIW, I've had a number of male friends who have shared marital difficulties with me over the years, and some female friends. The common and unwavering differences? I'm the only male who's gone to MC. I know this is only one datapoint, because a lot of men do go to MC, but I don't see examples of it in my social circle, at least if the people are being honest about it. The next curious parameter is that all those people are still married. Hmm...you might be onto something.

 

Personally, and perhaps reflective of my psychology, I'd rather be alone than in an unhealthy relationship. I personally couldn't function as a healthy human being in a lot of the marriages I've been exposed to. That's why we all bring different perspectives to this game. Obviously, these other people can (function). I say good on them.

[Spark1111]

We did, for a number of months, concurrent with MC, but our psychologist was firmly against separation, believing it to be a clear path to divorce. We separated more permanently after buying a second residence. Perhaps my situation was an anomaly, in that it was disclosed and transparent. There was no long deception, no D-day. I did all my agonizing before making an unhealthy choice.

 

I can say, without exception, that all the woman who have disclosed affairs to me have never been separated. This would include, but not be limited to, any who have had affairs with me. An affair is defined as a long-term betrayal of the marital trust and priority. As per LS, it can be sexual or emotional or both.

 

Having far more information and 'public opinion' now, I strongly believe my ex was one of those women, one who never did and never would disclose to her husband her betrayals, preserving the appearance that they never happened. It is an effective method. Women have taught me a lot, especially regarding the parameters of choosing a healthy partner.

 

For myself, having learned these things, I will *choose* to remain in a marriage, remain faithful to the marriage and work on the marriage together, while living together, until the matters are resolved or irreconcilable differences occur. If I separate, it will be to get a divorce. Life's too short, especially at my age. Pre-nup, fidelity, and either it works or it doesn't. No waffling, no affairs.

 

I trust there is a separation path which works for others. I wish them well.

 

About the above bolded: Interesting that a psychologist would not reccommend separation as an alternative to having affairs...because I can not think of ANYTHING more destructive to marital relationships than secret affairs!

 

Also, I wonder if there is a socio-economic dynamic that affects women in the thinking of..."I better find a new man (provider) before I throw out the old man, so I will not separate until a replacement is in place..."

[donnamaybe]

About the above bolded: Interesting that a psychologist would not reccommend separation as an alternative to having affairs...because I can not think of ANYTHING more destructive to marital relationships than secret affairs!

Precisely! And it is my opinion that once someone has resorted to an A, they have already decided the M isn't worth their effort anyway.

[desertIslandCactus]

To add to Blizzards listing:

 

Some men don't want to be alone.

 

Some men are nonconfrontational.

 

They aren't as aware of how bad the marriage is/was till OW comes on the scene.

[Spark1111]

There are so many answers or justifications.

 

1. Seperation usually ends in divorce.

2. Kids are involved. Dividing a family is tough.

3. Vows.

4. Most marital problems are one-sided. Meaning someone is getting hurt or having the finger pointed at them...blame.

5. Finances

6. Fear of change

 

I could go on...as you see it's just a bad situation to be in period. And there is so much to lose. I understand what you are saying though. Take and test the waters...see where your heart lies.

 

I believe many do speak of their unhappiness in marriage. And at times it may not always be verbally expressed. Married couples can be poor receptors and communicators.

When you seperate and you try soul searching...you can't go back to where you were in your relationship. It's as if it has been tainted. I suppose many regard seperation as regressing back to the single life. So it is frowned upon. Society sets a standard. That married couples are just that. United. And should work together to overcome any obstacle...any conflict...or situation in a relationship. Many believe "how can I work on us when we are not together?"

 

I am going through a seperation now...if you call it that. It has been ongoing for a year and a half now. At first we tried being apart, but my husband could not stay away from his home nor his kids. This lasted for two weeks. It was awful for him. The MC suggested our seperation. She said that I needed breathing room for the anger and resentment I housed. He wouldn't allow it. He demanded his way back into the house. Now, we are still in the same home...with our children. And it is NOT easy. And nothing has changed. He lives on one side. Me on the other.

 

Like carhill, my IC (psychologist) also said that seperation always ends in divorce. She also stated that MC fails as well. That most couples that seek MC already have their mind made up to divorce.

 

Blizzard, I am so sorry you are going through this....What a miserable way to live and I personally could not do this.

 

I take separate as a way to work on the relationship, almost to the exclusivity of all else: a make or break time to see if this can be worked out to the mutual benefit of both parties....or NOT!

 

So, what really changes when you both still live in the same house?

 

Probably nothing. Because what is the motivation for change? Probably nothing.

 

And I disagree that seperation always leads to divorce or that people who seek MC have already made up their mind to divorce.....

 

....Maybe people who seek MC too late....

[Spark1111]

To add to Blizzards listing:

 

Some men don't want to be alone.

 

Some men are nonconfrontational.

 

They aren't as aware of how bad the marriage is/was till OW comes on the scene.

 

If they are having an affair while married because they do not want to be alone...well that is breathtakingly selfish, IMO.

 

If they are nonconfrontational and then proceed to have an affair, because they were unaware of how bad the marriage was until the OW comes along...well, that is cowardly and controlling, IMO.

[carhill]

About the above bolded: Interesting that a psychologist would not recommend separation as an alternative to having affairs...because I can not think of ANYTHING more destructive to marital relationships than secret affairs!

 

I never broached that subject with our MC since my affair was long-since disclosed (by me) prior to MC beginning. We were there to resolve our marital unhealthiness, as well as the fallout from my poor choice to deal with it through an EA. Everything was transparent, by myself anyway. I can't speak for my ex-wife.

 

During our first separation, the MC *strongly* suggested weekly sessions with the goal of cohabiting as soon as possible. I think I posted about that period contemporaneously. That was when my ex went to live, voluntarily, at my mom's house for awhile; a couple months. Mom was long since in a dementia facility at that point.

 

I can say that our MC was as strongly opposed to 'inappropriate attachments' (affairs) as he was separation. He hammered away at that every week. Some of our 'debates' were epic The work was fruitful. I learned and accepted the unhealthiness and hurt I had brought to the M.

 

My take-away was that our psychologist was very marriage-centric, and he was additionally qualified in the areas of abuse, providing expert testimony in court in child abuse and rape cases. This was important because of my ex'es background. He could interpret aspects to me that I could not otherwise clearly understand about my ex'es psychology. Why she and I saw things, including separation, differently.

 

All in all, a great learning experience, even if painful. Separation, meh, distance IMO just breeds more distance. My ex and I are friendly and cordial but I don't see how distance over the last 18 months has helped anything. She's still her and I'm still me and irreconcilable we shall be. YMMV

[Spark1111]

Glad to hear it brought resolution, though perhaps not the kind that was originally intended!

 

And it sounds to me, Carhill, your own personal growth and maturity when it comes to relationships has been profound!

 

Relationships take two and I am sorry to hear (should I be?) that your wife has not embraced the same potential for growth.

 

But don't you believe you have tried your all? And isn't there a measure of stability in that?

 

That if you do embark on a new relationship, you now understand the devotion needed to maintain it?

 

And wouldn't infidelity of any kind be out of the question for you?

[carhill]

I don't honestly know if my ex has grown from the experience. My best friend is a pretty good judge of people, loved her a lot and he really doesn't know either (I asked him). I hope she has. More importantly, I hope she has left some of her demons behind and can live out her years with more happiness and peace.

 

Personally, I was devoted to my wife until abandonment killed my love. At that point, after attempting to reconcile that dynamic unsuccessfully, I had a choice. I made the wrong one. That won't happen again. The right one would have been to immediately seek out MC and remain engaged in the M, even if absent love. Then decide, as a result of the MC, whether to remain married or not.

 

My boundaries have been tested (as a potential OM) during this time and have held firm. Clear communication, learned in MC, makes all the difference in the world.

 

I won't be visiting the dynamic again. I thought about that a lot in the last couple months since my mother died, how I dishonored their M and the example they set for me. Like my father, I made a poor choice in the woman I married the first time. Unlike him, I made the additional poor choice to betray that marriage. He made a great choice in the second lady he married (the lady I buried). Perhaps, even with the choice I made, I can make a better choice in the future and uphold the lessons learned in failure.

 

When you read this, you're reading what separation has done for *me*. It's different for everyone. It's why I don't believe in separation, for myself, as a method of marital recovery. Others, it might work for them, especially as an alternative to an undisclosed affair. The caveat would be, IMO, if they are going to be unfaithful to the marriage during the separation, that choice needs to be communicated openly and transparently. Separation isn't a free card to explore other relationships. However, IME, people with a different psychology and perspective on marriage will necessarily see that aspect differently as well.

 

I often mentioned in MC that I felt like my ex 'wanted the security of being married and the freedom of being single' Now I'm beginning to understand where that really came from. Like I said, time reveals all truths

Edited October 18, 2010 by carhill

[Spark1111]

I don't honestly know if my ex has grown from the experience. My best friend is a pretty good judge of people, loved her a lot and he really doesn't know either (I asked him). I hope she has. More importantly, I hope she has left some of her demons behind and can live out her years with more happiness and peace.

 

Personally, I was devoted to my wife until abandonment killed my love. At that point, after attempting to reconcile that dynamic unsuccessfully, I had a choice. I made the wrong one. That won't happen again. The right one would have been to immediately seek out MC and remain engaged in the M, even if absent love. Then decide, as a result of the MC, whether to remain married or not.

 

My boundaries have been tested (as a potential OM) during this time and have held firm. Clear communication, learned in MC, makes all the difference in the world.

 

I won't be visiting the dynamic again. I thought about that a lot in the last couple months since my mother died, how I dishonored their M and the example they set for me. Like my father, I made a poor choice in the woman I married the first time. Unlike him, I made the additional poor choice to betray that marriage. He made a great choice in the second lady he married (the lady I buried). Perhaps, even with the choice I made, I can make a better choice in the future and uphold the lessons learned in failure.

 

When you read this, you're reading what separation has done for *me*. It's different for everyone. It's why I don't believe in separation, for myself, as a method of marital recovery. Others, it might work for them, especially as an alternative to an undisclosed affair. The caveat would be, IMO, if they are going to be unfaithful to the marriage during the separation, that choice needs to be communicated openly and transparently. Separation isn't a free card to explore other relationships. However, IME, people with a different psychology and perspective on marriage will necessarily see that aspect differently as well.

 

I often mentioned in MC that I felt like my ex 'wanted the security of being married and the freedom of being single' Now I'm beginning to understand where that really came from. Like I said, time reveals all truths

 

Thank you for this honesty, Carhill.

 

These are some of the very issues my fWS deals with today. And I feel sorry for him, and sometimes I feel sorry for myself too.

 

He now knows his legacy will always include this affair. He is ashamed for what is parents would think of him had they known. He is ashamed that his children could have proudly said, "Mom and Dad separated. They had some issues, but they worked it out," instead of my father had an affair.

 

There are friends and people in the community we live in who also know as well. And we did so much good work here, enjoyed a fine reputation as good and caring people.

 

I will always have that.

 

He will not. And I think, often, what did you do to YOURSELF? Why did you not ask to separate?

 

Because I believe if he realized what would be lost to him forever, he would have NEVER embarked on that path.

 

And if she truly fell for him,(as I believe she did) she would have never encouraged him to do so either.

[confusedinkansas]

I can only speak for my own situation.

 

Why didn't we separate? Well, I tried for years to talk with my husband about our issues. (It was not just about the infidelity)

He wasn't hearing me. Wouldn't hear me. Drank so he wouldn't have to talk to me (Which was the Numer Uno issue) He thought everything in our marriage was FINE! GREAT! super!! He was "Happy"!

Separation at that time was out of the question. We were raised to not divorce. EVER! No matter what!!!

 

Separation only came after I had dealt with his drinking, the affair, kids were grown & I put money back over the course of a year so that I could move out. I'd had all I could deal with. (the affair wasn't the reason for the separation)

As for staying married & my choice to have an affair - well, honestly, it helped me cope with the crap that was going on at home. Selfish - YEP! But it eased the pain some.

 

Besides how we were raised - the other issues that kept us together at that particular time were.......Money (NO it's not a matter of arguing over money as someone else said on another thread) There was $0 money extra. No one could move out & find another place to live. No family around. No friends that could "take in a stray" so to speak.

Kids, played a factor at that time too.

So as I said on another thread - It is NOT as simple as just saying, OK let's just split up. It's just not.

 

Affairs aren't right. The secrecy isn't right. The betrayal isn't right.

But for some, it's a coping mechanism. Bad choice? ....in hind site...Yes!

 

BTW: Happily Married 30 years! We're on the right track & everything is GREAT!

[Dexter Morgan]

Okay, I am willing to concede that leaving an unhappy marriage is not always simple.

 

But why not speak of your unhappiness and separate?

 

That is the part I cannot wrap my head around.

 

That is the part that for me, is either breathtakingly selfish, or cowardly and controlling.

 

Why NOT separate first?

 

Then explore your feelings for another?

 

because seperation is too many times seen as a green light to f##k around and try to say, "but it isn't cheating....we are seperated".

 

If one is going to seperate thinking it makes screwing around with someone else ok while still married....then divorce.

 

if someone seperates, but is messing around...the marriage is over anyway...those doing just that need to grow a pair and file for divorce instead of acting like college sophomores saying "but we were on a break"

[whichwayisup]

But why not speak of your unhappiness and separate?

 

Because in most cases, the marriage isn't bad. People get bored of routine, day in and day out, spouses stop communicating and/or shutting one out, resentments build and it's easier to say and do nothing than put in effort to keep the marriage interesting fun and passionate.

 

Most probably don't want to separate/divorce, most just want something on the side to make the person cheating 'feel good' about themselves, then they can take home that "affair energy" and focus it into their wives/husbands.

 

Also, most don't want to give up what they have built, family, friends, the history and the house, lifestyle. All for what? Because of abit of bordem and flatline in the marriage? Just from what I've seen and read on LS over the years, almost every single MM or MW really and truly have NO intention of divorcing. If/when it happens, it's the BS who makes that decision, not the CS.

[carhill]

Yeah, IMO, the absolute last option I wanted to pursue was divorce, hence the long time spent in MC. At some point though, health has to supercede comfort and convenience and familiarity. The cool and detached manner of my ex didn't help, consistent with how she was prior to my A. Ultimately, in retrospect, an A was the only remaining choice within the M to show I cared just as little as she did. Totally wrong, but honest. The other choice was filing for divorce, but that path clearly led to leaving the M. My firm belief now is that, regardless of my A, she would have divorced me anyway. She got what she wanted. Some people are like that.

[Spark1111]

I can only speak for my own situation.

 

Why didn't we separate? Well, I tried for years to talk with my husband about our issues. (It was not just about the infidelity)

He wasn't hearing me. Wouldn't hear me. Drank so he wouldn't have to talk to me (Which was the Numer Uno issue) He thought everything in our marriage was FINE! GREAT! super!! He was "Happy"!

Separation at that time was out of the question. We were raised to not divorce. EVER! No matter what!!!

 

Separation only came after I had dealt with his drinking, the affair, kids were grown & I put money back over the course of a year so that I could move out. I'd had all I could deal with. (the affair wasn't the reason for the separation)

As for staying married & my choice to have an affair - well, honestly, it helped me cope with the crap that was going on at home. Selfish - YEP! But it eased the pain some.

 

Besides how we were raised - the other issues that kept us together at that particular time were.......Money (NO it's not a matter of arguing over money as someone else said on another thread) There was $0 money extra. No one could move out & find another place to live. No family around. No friends that could "take in a stray" so to speak.

Kids, played a factor at that time too.

So as I said on another thread - It is NOT as simple as just saying, OK let's just split up. It's just not.

 

Affairs aren't right. The secrecy isn't right. The betrayal isn't right.

But for some, it's a coping mechanism. Bad choice? ....in hind site...Yes!

 

BTW: Happily Married 30 years! We're on the right track & everything is GREAT!

 

I am sooo happy you got on the right track! That is a blessing CIK!

 

Yes, some do not listen....I believe that is true.....but in my case, it was never verbalized as in, if you do not not do "A", I will seek "B" elsewhere....

 

Cowards abound....yaknowwhat I mean?

 

I loved him broke, rich, pain med addicted, broken back, employed, unemployed,.....I supported him throughout it all....and NEVER let anyone badmouth HIM in my presence.

 

So now you (he)find a woman who thinks you are wonderful...that your wife (me) is an ogre....that together you could be golden....but she knows nothing of your past......ARE YOU KIDDING ME??????????????

 

Look,I GET how wonderful it MUST be to re-invent yourself in the presence of someone new.

 

Like Tiger.....Elin really loved him. How many times are you going to find that in a lifetime....

 

Get real....

[Spark1111]

Because in most cases, the marriage isn't bad. People get bored of routine, day in and day out, spouses stop communicating and/or shutting one out, resentments build and it's easier to say and do nothing than put in effort to keep the marriage interesting fun and passionate.

 

Most probably don't want to separate/divorce, most just want something on the side to make the person cheating 'feel good' about themselves, then they can take home that "affair energy" and focus it into their wives/husbands.

 

Also, most don't want to give up what they have built, family, friends, the history and the house, lifestyle. All for what? Because of abit of bordem and flatline in the marriage? Just from what I've seen and read on LS over the years, almost every single MM or MW really and truly have NO intention of divorcing. If/when it happens, it's the BS who makes that decision, not the CS.

 

And what a shame is that, WWIU?????????????????????

 

You do not think the BS has also grown bored, pre-affair, as the WS has????????????

 

But we did not cheat! Not that we did not have offers a-plenty! We just did not go there.....No matter who was coming on to us!

 

We would have separated first. That had more integrity than the sneaking, lying around affair our spouse's had.

 

Sheesh.....why is that so clear to me?

[whichwayisup]

If/when it happens, it's the BS who makes that decision, not the CS.

I meant to put in (and wow, what a difference by leaving out a word or two, changes the meaning of the sentence..Sorry Sparks!) Once there's a D-Day, if a D is going to happen, it's the BS who pushes it not the CS.

 

Sorry again.

[pureinheart]

I never broached that subject with our MC since my affair was long-since disclosed (by me) prior to MC beginning. We were there to resolve our marital unhealthiness, as well as the fallout from my poor choice to deal with it through an EA. Everything was transparent, by myself anyway. I can't speak for my ex-wife.

 

During our first separation, the MC *strongly* suggested weekly sessions with the goal of cohabiting as soon as possible. I think I posted about that period contemporaneously. That was when my ex went to live, voluntarily, at my mom's house for awhile; a couple months. Mom was long since in a dementia facility at that point.

 

I can say that our MC was as strongly opposed to 'inappropriate attachments' (affairs) as he was separation. He hammered away at that every week. Some of our 'debates' were epic The work was fruitful. I learned and accepted the unhealthiness and hurt I had brought to the M.

 

My take-away was that our psychologist was very marriage-centric, and he was additionally qualified in the areas of abuse, providing expert testimony in court in child abuse and rape cases. This was important because of my ex'es background. He could interpret aspects to me that I could not otherwise clearly understand about my ex'es psychology. Why she and I saw things, including separation, differently.

 

All in all, a great learning experience, even if painful. Separation, meh, distance IMO just breeds more distance. My ex and I are friendly and cordial but I don't see how distance over the last 18 months has helped anything. She's still her and I'm still me and irreconcilable we shall be. YMMV

 

Sometimes absense makes the heart grow fonder...CH, that is what the separation would be about, to discover exactly what you have...done...if one of you is not dying to get back with the other then IMO it's done...BTW, I am so sorry CH, I thought you had been D'ed for a while. ((((((hugs))))))

[carhill]

BTW, I am so sorry CH, I thought you had been D'ed for a while.

 

Thanks, no, it's still going on. We file the MSA and last of the paperwork tomorrow. Then it's waiting for the court to process the judgment and have it served on me and that should wrap it up. As I told my financial person a couple days ago, a lady who used to work under me when I was on loan committee, when I went in to close my mom's accounts out and place her death certificate in the files, not having shared my divorce prior with her, 'it hasn't been the best of decades'. Yep, that about sums it up.

 

TBH, when I was separated, all the distance did was allow me to see more clearly how unhealthy the situation was and how we were both just wasting our time. I'll never know her side completely and maybe that's a good thing. I hope others who choose to separate to work things out fare better than we did. Oh, BTW, that separation also allowed me to see the unhealthiness of the dynamic with my affair partner, irrespective of the 'affair', but rather our near lifelong dynamic of back and forth. I'm finally free and I have two ladies to thank for that, and another, whom I'll put in her favorite antique tomorrow as her final resting place, who reminded me that there are good women in the world. In endings, there are beginnings. In separation there can be unity; unity of one's mind and spirit.

[pureinheart]

Thanks, no, it's still going on. We file the MSA and last of the paperwork tomorrow. Then it's waiting for the court to process the judgment and have it served on me and that should wrap it up. As I told my financial person a couple days ago, a lady who used to work under me when I was on loan committee, when I went in to close my mom's accounts out and place her death certificate in the files, not having shared my divorce prior with her, 'it hasn't been the best of decades'. Yep, that about sums it up.

 

TBH, when I was separated, all the distance did was allow me to see more clearly how unhealthy the situation was and how we were both just wasting our time. I'll never know her side completely and maybe that's a good thing. I hope others who choose to separate to work things out fare better than we did. Oh, BTW, that separation also allowed me to see the unhealthiness of the dynamic with my affair partner, irrespective of the 'affair', but rather our near lifelong dynamic of back and forth. I'm finally free and I have two ladies to thank for that, and another, whom I'll put in her favorite antique tomorrow as her final resting place, who reminded me that there are good women in the world. In endings, there are beginnings. In separation there can be unity; unity of one's mind and spirit.

 

CH, you've been through a lot and have an extremely balanced attitude. Even with all of what you have been going through, you still manage to help others on these boards. I for one have read your words and they have been healing through the many trials and tribulations I have been enduring myself. I know others feel as I do..you may have even saved a life...many distraught individuals frequent these boards and never say a word.

 

Your words and advice mean something to you, they are said with thought, conviction and most of all experience.

 

Your mother is the best example of the goodness out there. For me and mine, I broke the cycle, and was pissed and kicked and screamed all of the way...saying, "why me?"...and God simply told me, "why not you". So I priddy much shut up after that and did it.

 

I so agree with you, this was a "decade", with every descriptive word you can think of to describe the word "decade" in this context. So much change, and I'm tired, how about you? At the mere mention of change that I am not prepared for and have not had a chance to think about (for a minimum of a year:D), I will stand there with a blank face and shut down completely...lol.

 

I believe most of us are about to enter into some much needed pivotal points, in which the tides will turn greatly...in a nutshell, lot's of good stuff, so get ready for the good stuff now CH!!!!!!!!

[pureinheart]

I can only speak for my own situation.

 

Why didn't we separate? Well, I tried for years to talk with my husband about our issues. (It was not just about the infidelity)

He wasn't hearing me. Wouldn't hear me. Drank so he wouldn't have to talk to me (Which was the Numer Uno issue) He thought everything in our marriage was FINE! GREAT! super!! He was "Happy"!

Separation at that time was out of the question. We were raised to not divorce. EVER! No matter what!!!

 

Separation only came after I had dealt with his drinking, the affair, kids were grown & I put money back over the course of a year so that I could move out. I'd had all I could deal with. (the affair wasn't the reason for the separation)

As for staying married & my choice to have an affair - well, honestly, it helped me cope with the crap that was going on at home. Selfish - YEP! But it eased the pain some.

 

Besides how we were raised - the other issues that kept us together at that particular time were.......Money (NO it's not a matter of arguing over money as someone else said on another thread) There was $0 money extra. No one could move out & find another place to live. No family around. No friends that could "take in a stray" so to speak.

Kids, played a factor at that time too.

So as I said on another thread - It is NOT as simple as just saying, OK let's just split up. It's just not.

 

 

You mostly told my story, as I do not communicate much concerning the WS end of it. My ex had been cheating on me while I was working 10 and 12 hr days, 6 and 7 days a week ...taking/picking up kids, cleaning and taking care of all of the business...I'm really not sure what he really did as I was too busy to notice.

 

Every night he'd come home drunk from work and then started injecting steroids periodically...he became a violent drunk at this point.

 

I remember clearly one night I had had it and got pissed about him being drunk all of the time and he started screaming in my face F-you bitch over and over again...I hauled off and slapped him as hard as I could and ran, I slipped and fell running out the garage door and he grabbed my feet...I thought I was dead.

 

Shortly after that he wanted to work over seas, I begged him not to but the money was more important. I remember it was 4 am in the morning and he'd left for the airport...I was cleaning the kitchen floor on my knees and crying...my kids came in and were all freaked out because I was upset...I snapped inside.

 

I had an A while he was gone and when he came back I D'ed him for my AP and M'ed him.

 

We had separated because he wanted to be free, he came back because my neighbor told him some guys wanted me (we had gone out one night after she made me after seeing me crying on the freaking living room floor)...that pissed me off later on when I thought about it...he didn't want me, but didn't want anyone else to either...I better stop now because I'm getting really pissed off:D...thank you for your leniency Spark:)

[OWoman]

Okay, I am willing to concede that leaving an unhappy marriage is not always simple.

 

But why not speak of your unhappiness and separate?

 

That is the part I cannot wrap my head around.

 

That is the part that for me, is either breathtakingly selfish, or cowardly and controlling.

 

Why NOT separate first?

 

Then explore your feelings for another?

 

Then I get to do the same, with no lying and secrecy and betrayal.

 

We could go to marriage counseling during this process, to see if there is a marriage worth saving.

 

AND, if we do decide to reconcile, there is no shame or guilt or humiliation to be experienced in the court of public and personal opinion.

 

So why not make separation an option to both parties when the strong pull of attraction is experienced with a person outside the marriage?

 

Thoughts?

 

When I was unhappily M, I tried to speak of it, but wasn't being heard. If one partner is happy in a M, oftentimes they genuinely cannot comprehend that the other is not.

 

To me, separation was always a first step to D. There was no question of a "trial separation" - if there was any chance of working on things, then you stayed and worked on things; at the point where things were beyond working on, you left. So, when I left, there was no question of going back - even though I didn't D immediately, I was very clear within my own mind (as well as to my xH, and everyone else) that the M was over.

 

In my (now)H's case - there had been a separation, before we met. His xW had stormed out one night after a very nasty incident, and moved into her own place close by. The change in him (my now-H) was dramatic - everyone commented on how much happier he seemed, and he himself said it felt like when you stop pounding your head against a wall. For himself, he discovered that he was far happier outside of the M than in it - and, had he only taken his own feelings into consideration, he would have made the separation permanent.

 

However, his xW fell apart. Completely. And the effect on the kids was traumatic. They started to fall apart too. So when, after a year apart, his xW came knocking on the door, begging him to take her back, promising all sorts of changes - he thought of the kids, and agreed. (Of course, none of the promised changes stuck, and the situation quickly reverted to the toxic M of previously). They were not back together too long when we met. By that stage the gloss of the reconciliation had worn off, she'd refused to go back to MC, the kids were more unhappy than they'd been during the separation, and he fell victim to my advances. Sure, the "correct" thing would have been for him to tell her, "this isn't working, you haven't kept your end of the bargain, so you're back out on the pavement", but at that stage he was still trying to do what he thought was the right thing - put up with her for the sake of the kids, rather than have them see her fall apart again - and it took the duration of the A for him to reach the point where he realised that being held hostage by her threats of implosion was not healthy for the kids or for himself. The A did, however, allow him to build up robust Rs with his kids where they could discuss options for the future, and where potential future scenarios could manifest themselves (such as, getting a sense through our R that not all "love" Rs involved hurt and manipulation) so that the choices they faced weren't simply the hell of continued living together as a highly dysfunctional family vs the scenario that had played out during the separation. When even the kids came out strongly in support of splitting, it became a viable choice.

 

(Now, of course, hindsight allows him to view things very differently - but in the situation, at the time, he made the choices he made honestly thinking they were the best ones for the greatest number of people at the time: even when they were directly not in his own best interests, such as taking her back after the separation. But, I guess, that's always the case - it's only with time and distance that you gain sufficient perspective to realise the true shape of things.)