Dear OM/OW

[Silly_Girl]

I don't believe anything good comes out of an affair that compares to the hurt it causes. If there is something good that comes out of it - a new relationship, a stronger marriage, an independent woman - then it would be even better had an affair not caused it.

 

That's not the argument. No one is advocating infidelity as a marriage improvement tool. However, it also SHOULDN'T be denied that many spouses claim their marriage, post-affair, is reborn bigger and better than ever, they are happier and more in love, and doubt very much that would have come about WITHOUT the affair.

 

Ask them if they'd have preferred for a trip to the Bahamas to give that same outcome and it's clear what they would have chosen.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm a recent exOW. And this is my take on the issue. Here there are women who were once OWs and now they're not. Sometimes it is because they are married to the once-MM and sometimes it is because they are married to someone else or sometimes they are single now or whatever. But what I'm trying to say is that we all walked the same walk. None of us is better than the rest, now or then.

 

I believe that someone who comes to the OM/OW forum who is not a OM/OW, and especially if they were at one time a OM/OW!, should have the intention to help. I remember reading comments here from exOWs like "at least my man left for me, sorry yours didn't" and "I can't understand the entitlement of an OW." These are not exact quotes but I believe they are very close because I remember wondering with bewilderment how a woman who was a OW before could be so mean to current OWs. And those are just examples, there have been more. It's just not right IMO. For me it goes back to how our moms (and Thumper) always said if you can't say anything nice...

 

My current stance is that it is usually harmful to be an OW. It harmed me and I can read the hurt written all over the threads of the OWs who want their MMs to leave their wives. If I give advice here it is of the type I received, that helped me, like, why are you putting up with this?, you deserve better, don't settle for second best, live your life for you, etc. If the OW is hurting/ wondering, I mean. If she is sure that she likes being the OW well then I say, good for her, I mean, it wasn't my cup of tea but I'm not out to convert OWs into exOW's, just to provide some help like I've received here. I feel I have no right to sound at all judgmental because I have done the exact same thing. Yes, it's easier to recognize when someone else is doing something wrong, but even if I have a judgmental reaction, I remind myself that I have done similar, just as bad things. I try to say everything with love and care because that is how the message was usually delivered to me (sometimes with tough love) and that's what helped me.

 

So to me if one's intent is not to sincerely help, they shouldn't be here posting. Now I understand that the person who started this thread is a BS who wants to understand the mindset of OWs. She hasn't said anything judgmental that I've read, more like questioning/ kind of being astonished, and IMO it's fine if other OWs want to answer her, I myself did. To me that is not nearly as bad as exOWs throwing stones or being judgmental or haughty at current OWs. To me that's the saddest thing because there is a way to help OWs who are unhappy without judging them (if one's intention is truly to help, which I think it should be if one is going to come to this forum where people are struggling). That's my two cents on the subject and I guess it's my pet peeve about this forum.

 

Star Bright - I think this is a great post. It really speaks to me, given the recent frustrations I've been feeling here. Thanks.

[Star_Bright]

That's not the argument. No one is advocating infidelity as a marriage improvement tool. However, it also SHOULDN'T be denied that many spouses claim their marriage, post-affair, is reborn bigger and better than ever, they are happier and more in love, and doubt very much that would have come about WITHOUT the affair.

 

Ask them if they'd have preferred for a trip to the Bahamas to give that same outcome and it's clear what they would have chosen.

 

I see what you mean but I would still prefer to be in a marriage that never suffered from an affair. I get that good things can come out of them sometimes, probably because it's a situation where people realize, they either have to totally fall apart or totally try to come back together, but I still don't think that's anything compared to the destruction caused by the affair in the first place.

 

I also think that the number of marriages made way better in the long-term after an affair is probably pretty low compared to those that end because of it or just continue to suffer hurt because of it. On this site I know of Owl. There are probably others in Infidelity, where I don't really go much. But the ones I do read there and here are full of so many posts where people have revenge affairs, or try to trust again and can't, or get divorced. And lots of posts from OWs where they have a d-day and then their MM tries to work on the marriage and then comes back to them. Or from MW who try to give up OM and focus on their marriage but can't, etc.

 

Due to human nature being what it is (MOST people don't change, most people stick to the same old stuck situation...), I bet statistically *most* affairs result in the married people trying to come back together and work on things but then eventually still being unhappy or the cheating partner resuming the affair with the same or different OP. Maybe that's a negative outlook on things but it's just the feeling I get. I think it would be extremely hard and rare for a couple to really survive infidelity and then flourish afterwards long-term. (*Giving Owl props. *)

 

Now maybe there are a lot more people like that who aren't here sharing their stories and giving advice in the OM/OW forum. I'm just saying this based on what I read here and on what I believe to be common sense and human nature. I could be dead wrong, I haven't read statistics or anything. But my main point is that even if the marriage gets better afterwards to me I would rather be in an affair-free marriage, and I also think that it probably doesn't usually get better and stay better long-term.

[Star_Bright]

Star Bright - I think this is a great post. It really speaks to me, given the recent frustrations I've been feeling here. Thanks.

 

I'm with ya girl.

 

You're welcome!

[Lachicauna]

Op I'm curious to know how ur doing and if ur h is behaving. My ex mm just recently broke NC at the (almost) 3 week point, just as I predicted, and to know surprise was playing the "I miss you, I need you" game. I hate that it is so predictable, and I hate that I was unable to ignore his calls or invitation. The addiction is so strong. I'm guessing your H is probably coming up on his 3 week point. Be on the lookout. Keep your heart strong!

 

 

Let me once again thank all of you that responded to this post! I appreciate all of you that attempted to give me some insight.

 

To: Those of you that showed true concern for me and wished me the best, thank you and I pray that God moves in your life in a way that will bring you happiness you could never imagine!!!

 

To: KarmasTestDummy, I am doing ok. My days are getting better as I am learning how to occupy my mind and myself to keep my mind off of my pain. My nights however are ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!!! I am not sleeping much at all. I have tried many things to help with this including: sleeping pills, liqour/wine, warm milk, herbal teas, praying, reading, etc. I have not been able to go to the doctor because I actually lost my job a month ago and I no longer have health insurance. Anyway, at night my mind goes crazy!!! I think about so many things!!! This year is almost over and it has by far been the WORST YEAR OF MY LIFE!!!!

 

As far as my H, as far as I know he is behaving. The OW is now pregnant by her current BF so unless what I have been told is not true, (which is COMPLETELY possible!!!) I don't think he will be speaking to her any time soon. Of course my H is going out of his way to make me feel like I am all he wants and I guess that is what he should be doing, but the problem is this. My H has always maintained that he is COMPLETELY, POSITIVELY, in love with me. Even during the A he never acted like he wasn't!! He would make love to me with the same passion he always had, always told me how beautiful I was and how sexy I was, and how much I turned him on. He would do sweet things for me. He would take me out and do everything he could to make me feel special, so him going above and beyond what he was already doing isn't really making me think he isn't cheating anymore. I am not saying that I don't like what he does, but I am just saying that because this is stuff he did during the A, it doesn't convince me that he is now being faithful. We are still waiting to get an appointment with the Marriage Counselor and I am hoping and praying that we can both find some kind of understanding for why he chose to look outside of our marriage and to find out what he was looking for.

 

To: All of the current OWs/OMs:

 

I do not by any means think that you are the scum of the earth!!! I think that you have allowed yourself to become entangled in a relationship that is unfair to you and to the BS. I really think that you should take a look at your situation and see that you deserve to be loved by someone that is COMPLETELY committed to you!!! You deserve to not have to wonder if you are being lied to about the circumstances of your MM/MW's relationship with their H/W. Most of the time, you are going to wind up hurt in the end!! Why set yourself up for a high risk of getting your heart broken? Even if you don't believe in God and what the bible says, you may believe in Karma, or negative and positive energy. Most people believe in something like that and if there is one thing I know to be true, it is that what goes around, comes back around. What some people don't realize is that it doesn't always come back the way you think it will. What if because you were the OW/OM that tore a marriage apart you have to watch your child be torn apart by an A? Watching your child in pain would be devastating for anyone I am sure!!! Love feels wonderful, but think about this, if you are feeling this good knowing that the MM/MW is not yours all the time, imagine how good you will feel if that love was with someone that dedicated all of their time and love to you and not split between you and another person?

 

God Bless you all!!!

[Star_Bright]

To: All of the current OWs/OMs:

 

I do not by any means think that you are the scum of the earth!!! I think that you have allowed yourself to become entangled in a relationship that is unfair to you and to the BS. I really think that you should take a look at your situation and see that you deserve to be loved by someone that is COMPLETELY committed to you!!! You deserve to not have to wonder if you are being lied to about the circumstances of your MM/MW's relationship with their H/W. Most of the time, you are going to wind up hurt in the end!! Why set yourself up for a high risk of getting your heart broken? Even if you don't believe in God and what the bible says, you may believe in Karma, or negative and positive energy. Most people believe in something like that and if there is one thing I know to be true, it is that what goes around, comes back around. What some people don't realize is that it doesn't always come back the way you think it will. What if because you were the OW/OM that tore a marriage apart you have to watch your child be torn apart by an A? Watching your child in pain would be devastating for anyone I am sure!!! Love feels wonderful, but think about this, if you are feeling this good knowing that the MM/MW is not yours all the time, imagine how good you will feel if that love was with someone that dedicated all of their time and love to you and not split between you and another person?

 

God Bless you all!!!

 

I think this is really good advice. Thank you for sharing, you sound like a really good person and I'm sorry about the hurt you're experiencing. I see now that affairs are so hurtful to everyone all around, no one wins. Even if I had ended up with MM, I'd be with a cheater. That's just my sitch but here you are hurting over your husband's affair and there are OWs who are hurting because their MM hasn't left... it's very sad all around. I wish you the best and I hope you and your husband recover as quickly as possible. It sounds like he is doing everything right, so, that's very positive. Hugs to you.

[Lachicauna]

I think this is really good advice. Thank you for sharing, you sound like a really good person and I'm sorry about the hurt you're experiencing. I see now that affairs are so hurtful to everyone all around, no one wins. Even if I had ended up with MM, I'd be with a cheater. That's just my sitch but here you are hurting over your husband's affair and there are OWs who are hurting because their MM hasn't left... it's very sad all around. I wish you the best and I hope you and your husband recover as quickly as possible. It sounds like he is doing everything right, so, that's very positive. Hugs to you.

 

Thank you StarBright!!!! I wish you well!!! God Bless You!!! (Hugs back!!)

[pureinheart]

I have been an OW for 8 years. It started because of a very strong sexual attraction, and has continued for lots of reasons: strong feelings for each other, great sex, compatability etc. I am an atheist so what "god" thinks is totally irrelevant to me and I am not afraid of going to hell for my actions.

 

He pursued me, he initiated the affair, he is the one who doesn't want it to end, he is the one who followed me when I changed workplaces to get away from him.

 

Whilst I do think about his wife sometimes, I'm not the married one, HE is, therefore the responsibility for the impact our affair has had on his marriage is HIS. However, as I have posted in another thread, I would like to end it. He has recently admitted his true feelings for me however I have told him that I don't want him to leave his family and feel that it is time I settled down with someone else. I am finding it very difficult to end it however, and I am contemplating the pros and cons of just letting it run its course.

 

Wow JF, I think we were seeing the same guy:eek:.

 

JF, I knew exDM's M was over, We were friends before anything...I wanted to see him out of that abusive M, although if there was some way it could have worked, I would have rather that had taken place....but I knew the truth and had been there myself, it was only a matter of time.

 

Your heart is with this man so it will be difficult to just go off with another. My heart goes out to all of you.

 

If you want my opinion, his M is over also...a man just does not see another because they are happy in the M...they are biding time period. Some are scared, some torn...so many senarios.

 

Let's not forget YOU and what YOU want...k...((((((((hugs))))))))

[donnamaybe]

a man just does not see another because they are happy in the M...they are biding time period. Some are scared, some torn...so many

Oh, really? Like the guy I personally know who goes around telling everyone he has the perfect wife (and she is - sweet, sexy and gorgeous, a great mom, great housekeeper) and screwing around on her ALL THE TIME! She's plotting her escape from that toxic M as we speak.

 

Yep - some people just want the ego strokin' and they don't care who they hurt to get it.

[Dexter Morgan]

There is plenty of good that comes from A's.

 

Boy, I'll say.....my xW cheated on a guy that did everything for her, and now is with her OM that has decked her at least once.

 

 

Now I think most people would want the good to come through another source, but in the end how many times do you read from a reconciled BS that their M is better than before because the A was a wake up call? Is that not something good?

 

its called emotional extortion...."better do as i like, or I'll f### someone else"

 

 

 

Or from the BS who decides to D and has a better life without a man who disrespects her?

 

now this I agree on!.....somewhat. Still doesn't mean any good comes from an affair, at least for the betrayed.

 

it would be like saying, "Dexter stabbed me with a kitchen knife, I have nerve damage, will never walk again....but at least I lived and now I know what kind of psycho he is":o

[Spark1111]

I see what you mean but I would still prefer to be in a marriage that never suffered from an affair. I get that good things can come out of them sometimes, probably because it's a situation where people realize, they either have to totally fall apart or totally try to come back together, but I still don't think that's anything compared to the destruction caused by the affair in the first place.

 

I also think that the number of marriages made way better in the long-term after an affair is probably pretty low compared to those that end because of it or just continue to suffer hurt because of it. On this site I know of Owl. There are probably others in Infidelity, where I don't really go much. But the ones I do read there and here are full of so many posts where people have revenge affairs, or try to trust again and can't, or get divorced. And lots of posts from OWs where they have a d-day and then their MM tries to work on the marriage and then comes back to them. Or from MW who try to give up OM and focus on their marriage but can't, etc.

 

Due to human nature being what it is (MOST people don't change, most people stick to the same old stuck situation...), I bet statistically *most* affairs result in the married people trying to come back together and work on things but then eventually still being unhappy or the cheating partner resuming the affair with the same or different OP. Maybe that's a negative outlook on things but it's just the feeling I get. I think it would be extremely hard and rare for a couple to really survive infidelity and then flourish afterwards long-term. (*Giving Owl props. *)

 

Now maybe there are a lot more people like that who aren't here sharing their stories and giving advice in the OM/OW forum. I'm just saying this based on what I read here and on what I believe to be common sense and human nature. I could be dead wrong, I haven't read statistics or anything. But my main point is that even if the marriage gets better afterwards to me I would rather be in an affair-free marriage, and I also think that it probably doesn't usually get better and stay better long-term.

 

I could not agree with you more. We are happily reconciled today.

 

Why? My husband changed from a selfish, self-entitled, angry and somewhat depressed man to a wonderful father, lover, husband.

 

Why? Because unfortunately, some people need to have all they truly hold dear walking out the door before they become a better, more grateful, more giving person.

 

Did it take an affair to have him grow up? No, it took the discovery of it and a "Well have a nice life with your soul mate, I'm moving on" to do it.

 

He became the man I always knew he had the potential to be; the one I tried to beg him to be; get counseling to be.

 

What a shame for him. He truly could have been a happier man for many years.

 

As for the affair? It was his catalyst to change towards me, and for that change I am grateful. But I would rather have had a lobotomy than to have had the pain of that experience. I think today, he would too.

 

I loved him. I always loved him. The issues were his own. HE finally cleaned up his act when he almost lost me for good.

[worlybear]

Lachicuana,

Here is what is going on in their minds, whether they want to admit it or not:

 

MM

 

See MM

 

Want MM

 

Don't care about the wife as long as they get theirs

Absolutely spot on! And in my case ,she got a full-time Dad for her kid at our daughter's expense.

Still hope it all goes horribly wrong and it ends in tears (his and hers.)

[juicyfruit62]

Lachicuana,

Here is what is going on in their minds, whether they want to admit it or not:

 

MM

 

See MM

 

Want MM

 

Don't care about the wife as long as they get theirs

 

That might go on in the minds of some OW, Dexter, though once again you are making huge assumptions and generalisations as you are so inclined to do, but all the man has to do to prevent the whole thing starting is to say, no thanks, I'm married and don't screw around on my wife.. in my experience, the married man, not the OW, is the instigator of most affairs. It's both ridiculous and insulting to portray men as the innocent victims of these man eating OW, as your post seems to infer...

 

and worlybear, lets look at this another way - she didn't TAKE him, he LEFT your marriage...takes two to tango, remember...

Edited November 5, 2010 by juicyfruit62

[juicyfruit62]

Wow JF, I think we were seeing the same guy:eek:.

 

JF, I knew exDM's M was over, We were friends before anything...I wanted to see him out of that abusive M, although if there was some way it could have worked, I would have rather that had taken place....but I knew the truth and had been there myself, it was only a matter of time.

 

Your heart is with this man so it will be difficult to just go off with another. My heart goes out to all of you.

 

If you want my opinion, his M is over also...a man just does not see another because they are happy in the M...they are biding time period. Some are scared, some torn...so many senarios.

 

Let's not forget YOU and what YOU want...k...((((((((hugs))))))))

 

thank you for the hugs pureinheart! they mean a lot. My heart has been with him since this all started. It's true that you can't help who you fall in love with, even when they are so wrong for you, as he is for me, married, younger, a work colleague, a different culture.

 

I think you're right, his marriage IS over, a man who is happy and fulfilled in his marriage doesn't have an intense 8 year affair...however, there are a lot of pressures on him to stay in the marriage, not least cultural ones, and I have to respect that.

 

The trouble is, at the moment I am very ambivalent about what it is I really want..

[OWoman]

Absolutely spot on! And in my case ,she got a full-time Dad for her kid at our daughter's expense.

Still hope it all goes horribly wrong and it ends in tears (his and hers.)

 

Wow! So because she was more lovable and more desirable (she must have been - we're told repeatedly that MMs are always with the ones that they REALLY love, and that anyone else that they may appear to love or care for are really just "side dishes" or "playthings" and are not really worthy of love - or he'd be with them, wouldn't he? ) than his BW and his daughter, she's deserving of heartbreak and tears down the line? :sick: :sick:

 

I'm glad I don't live in a world where my own personal unhappiness translates into me wishing horrible things on other people.

[OWoman]

This is easy. ANYONE should feel entitled to WHAT IS PROMISED TO THEM.

 

So if a MM promises his OW he will leave his M, she's entitled to it? So, if she wrecks his M for him or finds some other way to "dispose" of the BW, she's merely collecting on a promise, and is perfectly entitled to do so?

[donnamaybe]

So if a MM promises his OW he will leave his M, she's entitled to it? So, if she wrecks his M for him or finds some other way to "dispose" of the BW, she's merely collecting on a promise, and is perfectly entitled to do so?

If ANYONE makes promises they don't intend to keep or sneaks around lying and cheating, i.e. purposely deceiving someone, they deserve WHATEVER they get.

 

That goes for OW/OM as well.

Edited November 5, 2010 by donnamaybe

[jthorne]

I'm glad I don't live in a world where my own personal unhappiness translates into me wishing horrible things on other people.

I guess I am confused about this. I thought being unapologetic meant you (general you) didn't care if your happiness meant unhappiness for others. So how is the above so different?

[silktricks]

I don't believe that As create positive results ever. If the future after the A is a good one, it's a good one despite the A.

This has some truth, but not all the truth. Despite the A - well if there had not been one, then possibly changes would not have been made. I know that in our case, the A absolutely strengthened our marriage. Some other very painful things happened at the same time. Had the A not occurred I'm not sure that the other things would not have destroyed our marriage. Instead during the other crisis our focus was on each other.

 

{snip}

 

it's quite an arrogant assumption to make about all parties getting out of this hell in better shape than before. It's simply not true.

Although this assumption you've based upon the BS being in bad shape and the MM/OW now together and happy as a couple, it is often true that all parties do not "get out in better shape than before".

 

Since the OW in our case has never ceased attempting further contact with my H, I would assume that she is not in better shape. But she did have the opportunity to be in better shape, to take this as a lesson for growth, just as a BS if the marriage dissolves has the opportunity to grow from the experience. It is unfortunate that too often the opportunity for growth is ignored, and instead of growth the choice is made to simply become bitter.

[silktricks]

My nights however are ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE!!! I am not sleeping much at all. I have tried many things to help with this including: sleeping pills, liqour/wine, warm milk, herbal teas, praying, reading, etc. I have not been able to go to the doctor because I actually lost my job a month ago and I no longer have health insurance. Anyway, at night my mind goes crazy!!! I think about so many things!!! This year is almost over and it has by far been the WORST YEAR OF MY LIFE!!!!

 

My H has always maintained that he is COMPLETELY, POSITIVELY, in love with me. Even during the A he never acted like he wasn't!! He would make love to me with the same passion he always had, always told me how beautiful I was and how sexy I was, and how much I turned him on. He would do sweet things for me. He would take me out and do everything he could to make me feel special, so him going above and beyond what he was already doing isn't really making me think he isn't cheating anymore. I am not saying that I don't like what he does, but I am just saying that because this is stuff he did during the A, it doesn't convince me that he is now being faithful. We are still waiting to get an appointment with the Marriage Counselor and I am hoping and praying that we can both find some kind of understanding for why he chose to look outside of our marriage and to find out what he was looking for.

 

I don't want to threadjack too much, but this stuff is really normal. It took me a few years to be able to sleep correctly after the A, or be at all calm.

 

My H also said he always loved me. He took me on some pretty extravagant vacations during the A as well - though he was definitely more distant.

 

But that said, there are a number of base causes for affairs, and until you guys get some MC & IC going maybe your husband simply isn't introspective enough to even realize why he did what he did - especially so if he hasn't conveyed any of that info to you.

 

It took me about 4 years to get past the affair. Our relationship now is great, but that isn't true for everyone. It takes a LOT of work for both parties to make a post-affair marriage successful. I wish you all the best for your future, regardless of which path you choose in the end.

 

Silk

[BB07]

Star Bright...........I would like to say that is a wonderful post.............5 thumbs up!!!

 

 

 

 

I'm a recent exOW. And this is my take on the issue. Here there are women who were once OWs and now they're not. Sometimes it is because they are married to the once-MM and sometimes it is because they are married to someone else or sometimes they are single now or whatever. But what I'm trying to say is that we all walked the same walk. None of us is better than the rest, now or then.

 

I believe that someone who comes to the OM/OW forum who is not a OM/OW, and especially if they were at one time a OM/OW!, should have the intention to help. I remember reading comments here from exOWs like "at least my man left for me, sorry yours didn't" and "I can't understand the entitlement of an OW." These are not exact quotes but I believe they are very close because I remember wondering with bewilderment how a woman who was a OW before could be so mean to current OWs. And those are just examples, there have been more. It's just not right IMO. For me it goes back to how our moms (and Thumper) always said if you can't say anything nice...

 

My current stance is that it is usually harmful to be an OW. It harmed me and I can read the hurt written all over the threads of the OWs who want their MMs to leave their wives. If I give advice here it is of the type I received, that helped me, like, why are you putting up with this?, you deserve better, don't settle for second best, live your life for you, etc. If the OW is hurting/ wondering, I mean. If she is sure that she likes being the OW well then I say, good for her, I mean, it wasn't my cup of tea but I'm not out to convert OWs into exOW's, just to provide some help like I've received here. I feel I have no right to sound at all judgmental because I have done the exact same thing. Yes, it's easier to recognize when someone else is doing something wrong, but even if I have a judgmental reaction, I remind myself that I have done similar, just as bad things. I try to say everything with love and care because that is how the message was usually delivered to me (sometimes with tough love) and that's what helped me.

 

So to me if one's intent is not to sincerely help, they shouldn't be here posting. Now I understand that the person who started this thread is a BS who wants to understand the mindset of OWs. She hasn't said anything judgmental that I've read, more like questioning/ kind of being astonished, and IMO it's fine if other OWs want to answer her, I myself did. To me that is not nearly as bad as exOWs throwing stones or being judgmental or haughty at current OWs. To me that's the saddest thing because there is a way to help OWs who are unhappy without judging them (if one's intention is truly to help, which I think it should be if one is going to come to this forum where people are struggling). That's my two cents on the subject and I guess it's my pet peeve about this forum.

[BB07]

Let me once again thank all of you that responded to this post! I appreciate all of you that attempted to give me some insight.

 

Lachicauna.........I hope you find peace and healing for yourself and your family.

[Star_Bright]

Star Bright...........I would like to say that is a wonderful post.............5 thumbs up!!!

 

Thanks, BB

[Star_Bright]

Oh, really? Like the guy I personally know who goes around telling everyone he has the perfect wife (and she is - sweet, sexy and gorgeous, a great mom, great housekeeper) and screwing around on her ALL THE TIME! She's plotting her escape from that toxic M as we speak.

 

Yep - some people just want the ego strokin' and they don't care who they hurt to get it.

 

My exMM did this. He would brag about his beautiful wife and kids, and seem the perfect happy family man. But then he would stay out drinking as late as possible! He was a flirt and I thought he was a player. Once I got to know him I was sure he messed around on his wife a lot, and other people we worked with thought so too. He swears he never cheated on his second wife (although he admits to cheating on his first wife a lot, including with this second wife) until he met me, but, if that was true then he was definitely looking to cheat.

 

So my exMM is an example of someone who had a good wife and family but still cheated. The issues were within him. I'm not damning him for this- and I certainly helped him cheat- but it is what it is. Him cheating because he felt entitled to, I guess, and not because of some long-standing unhappy marriage or bad wife.

[OWoman]

I guess I am confused about this. I thought being unapologetic meant you (general you) didn't care if your happiness meant unhappiness for others. So how is the above so different?

 

Perhaps that is your definition of the term. I don't recall anyone else here using it in that way, especially those who claimed it to refer to themselves.

 

But either way, there is a world of difference between being focused on one's own happiness to the extent that (some) others may seem "incidental" and any harm that happens to accrue to them, collateral damage; and ACTIVELY wishing hurt and heartbreak on someone else simply because of one's own unhappiness. It's like the difference between leaving a gun lying around where someone might come across it and injure themselves, and actively going out and shooting somebody deliberately. The first case is negligent, the second is vicious.