How do you know "for sure" and am I normal?

[Crazy Magnet]

Ok, so I'm probably not normal , but...

 

I live with my BF, we have talked about marriage and he says he sees the relationship moving in that direction. I alternate back and forth between wanting to get married and being scared ****less about getting married due to my past super awful marriage and divorce. I don't want to make another mistake.

 

It's time like these when I wish I had parents to talk to about this kind of stuff.

 

How do I know "for sure" if he's the right one? For the most part, say 93%, the relationship is great, he's caring, genuine, funny, etc. We just really get each other and have a great connection and amazing chemistry. I still love all the things about him that I loved in the beginning. He has some flaws too that have caused some issues between us, like lack of boundaries with the opposite sex (taken care of, but I posted threads about it) and procrastination (very not taken care of at this point in time).

 

I know that there will never be a "perfect" relationship, but for those who got married, did you feel your relationship was "perfect" at the time you decided to get married? Sometimes I think I have unrealistic expectations of what a relationship has to be like before two people can get married and I'm not sure how to align my fantasy of perfection with reality. Or maybe I'm way off and everybody who gets married thinks their relationship is perfect at that time? What if I'm just too picky?

 

I feel like I'm constantly asking him to complete chores around the house that he should just complete on his own at this point (like cleaning up his own mess!). I also feel like I'm his second brain a lot of the time. He's always asking me where things are. Granted, I basically know where every last thing is in the house, but why can't he figure out where the scissors are if he wants to use them, or where he puts his socks, or keys or whatever else he's looking for? His procrastination bothers me too, although almost every guy I've dated has had a tendency for this one.

 

If he procrastinates on something that only affects him, I let experience the consequences on his own and he has to fix it himself. If he's procrastinating on something that affects us both I get on him about it, and even then sometimes he puts things off until after a decision has to be made or an action has to be taken. I usually let him dig us out of that one too since his procrastination was the cause of the problem. Like currently, we had a renter lined up for the house, but he didn't get the things done he said he would, and the renter either a) won't sign the lease or b) will only sign it if we drastically lower the price. (She's already paying less than the mortgage because she's one of my good friends). I'm so embarrassed that he chose to be with his friends, watch football, etc rather than get his grown up responsibilities done and get this house ready for my friend. She was doing me a favor by moving in and yet he procrastinated and it's now really going to impact us financially. $1100 a month might not be a lot to some people, but to me it's very wasteful when a couple days of work would have ensured a renter for the next 3 years.

 

I know I'm more ambitious than 99% of the population, and that I expect perfection of myself and I can be overly critical of others who don't meet my perfection standards. I can't tell if these things bother me because I expect perfection, or if they are normal things that go on in every relationship. Am I overly critical? Is this normal?

 

How did you know you wanted to marry your W/H? Please don't tell me "I just knew" because given my romantic past I don't think that is possible for me.

[westrock]

You'll know "for sure" when you can accept your guy for who he is including his flaws, and you can accept yourself for who you are including your flaws. To do that will require you to stop expecting perfection as your standard.

 

What does it mean to you if you are less than perfect?

[anne1707]

That's the downside/joy of love - you can never be 100% sure. Ultimately you have to go with what feels right for you.

 

Curious....

 

You have focussed on what you do for him. What does he do for you? What does he do to look after you/makes you a better person?

[LiveWell]

Ok, so I'm probably not normal , but...

 

Join the club.

 

 

I live with my BF, we have talked about marriage and he says he sees the relationship moving in that direction.

 

This is way too vague. You're already living together, right? There should be a pretty well-defined progression of how each of you see the relationship moving forward so you don't end up in years of relationship limbo. "Moving in that direction" is not good enough by a long shot.

 

If being married to him is your objective with the relationship, you need to lay your cards on the table clearly. You need to find out if he actually wants to marry you and if not what his reservations are, if any.

 

If you've been living together for six months or more, and the relationship as a whole is at the one year point or beyond, it's not too soon to not only be talking about getting engaged, but to actually GET engaged. And if you (or he) don't feel ready for that next stage, then you need to figure out why.

 

The engagement should not be some indefinite thing either. A date for the wedding needs to be set promptly. Six months to a year max depending on how long the preparations will take. (Obviously you can get married even quicker if you want to.) The actual engagement is a necessary process because a lot of relationships break up only after the engagement. You won't know if he's really ready for marriage unless it's a concrete proposition, and it's not concrete until you're engaged.

 

 

 

I alternate back and forth between wanting to get married and being scared ****less about getting married due to my past super awful marriage and divorce.

 

Maybe so, but that doesn't change what I wrote above. You still need to get engaged with a date set for the wedding as the next stage in this process. That is if you ever actually want to get married. If you have fears/reservations then go get counseling.

 

 

I don't want to make another mistake.

 

That's perfectly understandable, but doesn't change the fact that if you want to be married, you actually have to get married.

 

 

 

It's time like these when I wish I had parents to talk to about this kind of stuff.

 

Be your own parent. Pretend you are giving the best advice you possibly could to a good friend of yours. How would you advise a friend in the situation you are describing?

 

 

 

 

How do I know "for sure" if he's the right one?

 

You figure out what is objectively important in a marital partner and prioritize that checklist. See how much of your bf matches up with the list of what is the most important, and that he doesn't have any deal-breakers.

 

 

 

For the most part, say 93%, the relationship is great, he's caring, genuine, funny, etc.

 

93%? LOL, pretty precise. The traits you mention him as having are extremely important in a marriage. You don't want a nasty old grouch. However--you need to see what he's like under conditions of extreme adversity. How he handles stress and conflict, including relationship conflict, because a big part of a successful marriage is how the partners resolve the inevitable conflicts that will occur.

 

 

 

 

 

We just really get each other and have a great connection and amazing chemistry. I still love all the things about him that I loved in the beginning.

 

All great stuff.

 

 

 

He has some flaws too that have caused some issues between us, like lack of boundaries with the opposite sex (taken care of, but I posted threads about it)

 

Bad boundaries is something you need to take a very hard line about because it can often lead to infidelity during a time of marital stress. He needs to buy into having good boundaries and understand the reasons for it, not simply do it because he thinks he's being forced by you.

 

 

and procrastination (very not taken care of at this point in time).

 

Procrastination is probably a very common problem but not a deal breaker by any means. There are effective ways of trying to address it.

 

 

I know that there will never be a "perfect" relationship, but for those who got married, did you feel your relationship was "perfect" at the time you decided to get married?

 

No, anyone who thinks they will have "perfect" anything has unrealistic expectations and will be disappointed.

 

 

 

Sometimes I think I have unrealistic expectations of what a relationship has to be like before two people can get married and I'm not sure how to align my fantasy of perfection with reality. Or maybe I'm way off and everybody who gets married thinks their relationship is perfect at that time? What if I'm just too picky?

 

You haven't stated what your realistic expectations of marriage with your bf are. What is your "life plan" and does it match up with your bf's conception? This involves very practical considerations such as:

 

--will you have/raise kids together?

--careers/education and development of both--what plans and objectives do you have?

--where do you want to live? buy a house? raise a family?

--financial--goals, objectives, habits/retirement plans?

--family: beyond having and raising children, how you/your bf relate to your larger extended families, in laws, etc., can have a big influence on the marital relationship

--religion--compatible?

--politics (I think this is actually bogus, I would never let political differences get in the way of love; but a lot of people seem to think that it actually matters)

 

 

 

I feel like I'm constantly asking him to complete chores around the house that he should just complete on his own at this point (like cleaning up his own mess!).

 

This is trivial, unless his sloppiness is some kind of an indication of a broader personal problem of incompetence/disorganization which needs to be addressed in a larger way. Actually it sounds like more of a "power" issue in your relationship--you want him to do something which is actually pretty easy, he pushes back, etc. etc.

 

Don't let things like chores and disputes over them mask what is really going on, if it's a "power struggle" that dynamic is what needs to be addressed, not the mess on the floor. (You can hire a maid for that if need be.)

 

Obviously there needs to be some reasonably equitable distribution of responsibility over the relationship as a whole; but that doesn't mean each little task must be split 50-50. If your bf is a great guy but simply a procrastinating mess then you may have to overlook his flaws and hopefully he will mature out of them. But maybe not: I'm still pretty much of a slob. Sorry.

 

 

I also feel like I'm his second brain a lot of the time. He's always asking me where things are.

 

This is pretty typical of men actually. "Honey where are my socks?"

 

 

Granted, I basically know where every last thing is in the house, but why can't he figure out where the scissors are if he wants to use them, or where he puts his socks, or keys or whatever else he's looking for? His procrastination bothers me too, although almost every guy I've dated has had a tendency for this one.

 

It's more helpful to look at this kind of stuff (I call it the trivia of relationships) from a problem-solving perspective/organizational problem than as a "relationship" issue. If the particular issue is where the scissors/gluestick/construction paper/scotch tape is (you can tell I have kids, right?), then rather than arguing about it, you assign a specific drawer or shelf where that stuff goes. Then, anytime someone needs it, all they do is look there. If you find the stuff lying around, it automatically gets put back in its proper place. When bf asks "Where's the tape?" you just say: "Look on the supply shelf." And so forth.

 

 

 

If he procrastinates on something that only affects him, I let experience the consequences on his own and he has to fix it himself. If he's procrastinating on something that affects us both I get on him about it, and even then sometimes he puts things off until after a decision has to be made or an action has to be taken.

 

Again don't make this stuff into a power struggle. What is it that you think needs to be done? Car needs an oil change? If he doesn't do it, you take the car in. You do what you're good at, he should do what he's good at. If you're better at being organized and taking care of tasks, then you do those things. He can do other stuff like crush spiders. If he's putting off things where you think a decision is needed right away, tell him clearly that if he doesn't make the decision by some deadline, you will, and then act on that.

 

You see when you're a married couple, it's not "him" and "me." It's "us." Or at least it should be. And, if you make a move because he failed to, and used your best judgment, he doesn't really have a basis to complain, does he?

 

 

I usually let him dig us out of that one too since his procrastination was the cause of the problem.

 

Sorry, IMO that's the wrong answer, wrong attitude. Not if you want to have a successful marriage. You don't let issues or problems fester or get worse just to prove a point. If something needs doing, and he won't do it, you've got two problems--one, the thing that needs doing; two, his failure to cooperate. You have to take care of one, first. You don't let the oil go unchanged or the mortgage or rent unpaid simply because he dropped the ball. You take care of business and then deal with his procrastination as a separate, on going issue.

 

You don't want to have a situation where anyone has to dig out of anything, if it's avoidable.

 

I'm not saying procrastination isn't a legitimate issue, but playing "chicken" with the thing that he's procrastinating about isn't going to solve anything.

 

 

 

Like currently, we had a renter lined up for the house, but he didn't get the things done he said he would, and the renter either a) won't sign the lease or b) will only sign it if we drastically lower the price. (She's already paying less than the mortgage because she's one of my good friends).

 

At least two issues I see here. (1) We didn't get the things done that needed to be done. The renter doesn't care as between the two of you, who was supposed to get what done. It's not clear what things he didn't do, but if it's stuff like maintenance or repainting that you are unable or unwilling to do yourself, then you hire it out if possible. (2) If this rental is supposed to be a business proposition, your friend should not be getting any breaks on the rent simply because she's your friend. That's actually kind of ridiculous, isn't it?

 

Bottom line here is that your "good friend" is apparently not such a good friend that she's unwilling to haggle you down as far as she can get you?

 

Maybe your bf is resentful that your good friend is getting a great deal already? Who knows. But clearly your bf has a legitimate beef with you, if you are giving your friend a discount on the rent simply because she's your friend?

 

It's not even clear who owns the property that's being rented? Whoever's name is on the title has the primary obligation/responsibility to do whatever needs to be done to rent it out. If it's both of you, well, then, it's both of you.

 

Bottom line is that a marriage is a team and someone has to take care of business, and it doesn't get you anywhere to say your bf didn't do what he was supposed to, because after all--you didn't do whatever it was, either.

 

 

I'm so embarrassed that he chose to be with his friends, watch football, etc rather than get his grown up responsibilities done and get this house ready for my friend.

 

Now, IMO, you're not being fair, and I can see an obvious source of conflict over this. You're imposing on your bf an obligation or a guilt not just because he didn't get a rental ready; but there's an implied heightened obligation because it's for YOUR friend, at a discount no less.

 

You know what? if it's YOUR friend--YOU get it ready for her! That is, if you don't like your bf's lack of caring about this.

 

It sounds like both of you have a little bit of "growing up" to do! If you're getting married to someone, NO ONE comes between the two of you! Your friend is ALREADY getting a below market rental rate!

 

 

 

She was doing me a favor by moving in and yet he procrastinated and it's now really going to impact us financially.

 

No, you "both" procrastinated. If you get married there is no "him" and "me" with respect to third parties--it's always "us"!

 

Remember what you said about "boundaries"? Well the same idea applies to non-romantic relationships with third parties.

 

If the apartment needed to be painted--go to Home Depot get some paint and brushes and drop cloths, and go for it!

 

My wife does all the painting around our house! (Actually she has a flare for the home improvement thing, I don't, she likes to do it--I say, go for it Honey! There's nothing sexier than looking up at my wife standing up on a step ladder with a caulking gun! )

 

$1100 a month might not be a lot to some people, but to me it's very wasteful when a couple days of work would have ensured a renter for the next 3 years.

 

As a couple, what you need to understand is that you are "equally to blame" for the failure to get done, whatever needed to be done. If necessary, and you can't do it, you HIRE IT OUT to a handyman, and allocate that expense in some fair manner or as you've agreed to in that situation. But what you DON'T EVER do is respond to your bf/husband's lack of responsibility BY DUPLICATING IT. If your bf is acting like a child in some ways, you can't also act the same way! You have to act like the "adult" of the relationship--maybe you'll get him to follow your example!

 

 

 

I know I'm more ambitious than 99% of the population, and that I expect perfection of myself and I can be overly critical of others who don't meet my perfection standards.

 

"The perfect is the enemy of the good." No one is perfect, you surely know that. Read up on Pareto's Principle/The Law of Diminishing Returns.

 

80% of our results come from 20% of our efforts; 20% of our results come from 80% of our efforts.

 

To be efficient, you need to figure out how to make the best use of your time, money, and efforts. Letting the rental go unrented because you were "miffed" at your bf's acting like a ten year old, was the WORST possible decision you could have made! Now it's still unrented, he's still procrastinating, and you're angry at him!

 

Try to think in terms of "how do I effectively solve the problem at hand" not "how do I win"!

 

 

I can't tell if these things bother me because I expect perfection, or if they are normal things that go on in every relationship. Am I overly critical? Is this normal?

 

You are NOT "over critical" but again please do not go through life expecting perfection from yourself or others, as you will never be satisfied. Procrastination/irresponsibility is not a good trait to have but LOTS of people suffer from it.

 

You said he's 93% of what you want??? In my book, 93% is "GRADE A"!

 

What you are is lacking in certain attitudes/techniques of problem solving, but these can be learned. There are books on this kind of stuff.

 

 

How did you know you wanted to marry your W/H? Please don't tell me "I just knew" because given my romantic past I don't think that is possible for me.

 

She was beautiful, she was sexy, she was intelligent, she wanted to spend time with me, we were both at a place in our lives where we had similar attitudes and goals towards the future. (And I guess she liked me enough not to ditch me!) No neither of us was perfect not by a longshot, and we still aren't. But we work together as a team. Sure we have our spats but as far as the "big picture" issues I have not disagreed with her about ANYTHING. I wouldn't let some "issue" come between myself and my love. SHE is my most important "issue."

[lucylove]

i don't think i was even close to being certain of perfection when we married. and we still had some problems that i knew we were working on and that we would probably be proficient in dealing in 30 years. i knew there were aspects of his personality that drove me nuts, and vice versa. he wasn't perfect and neither was i. but i did have a sort of faith that no matter what, we'd always work it out. and i knew that i loved him with everything and he loved me with everything. i knew that we both were fighters, and we would fight to make it work between us. we both were capable of seeing our mistakes, and learning from them. time had proven that.

you will never find perfection. what you want is someone who can work on issues with you, and who will learn and grow with you. someone who is eternally devoted to being a better person. you don't want someone who runs at the sight of trouble, or doesn't care if they ever turn out better or happier and is willing to settle for "good enough."

life is tough and you have to be on your toes, and be willing to learn if you want to be happy.

what i am getting at is...you're not going to find perfection. the closest you will get to that is someone who pursues their very best self, marriage and life. this doesn't mean they don't have character flaws (like procrastination) that get in their way of that, it means they are working on those flaws. sometimes people don't realize their flaws are an issue. a good relationship can help you to see where self improvement is needed, without making you feel like crap.

it takes a lot of open and honest communication, but my husband and i have both tweaked our bad habits, and tried to become better; these weren't bad habits we thought of as issues when we were single. because we are so different, we needed each other to point them out. we both changed for ourselves because we realized our partner saw in us something that really was getting in our ways. this has happened many times.

still, we drive each other nuts. he will always lean in the direction of practicality and i will always lean towards chaos. we can't change who we are but we can learn to control those bad habits that stem from our root personalities. it will always drive him crazy sometimes, that i can be a little scatter brained, a little disorderly. and i will be annoyed that he is so concerned with structure. but that is called compromise. and i love him for who he is. even when he unnerves me, i know i wouldn't really want a laid back guy who flew by the seat of his pants. because that would be way too much like dating myself.

maybe the same is true for you guys. give it time and see if you guys have good problem solving chemistry. do you grown and change together? is he committed to happiness? these are the questions you want to ask, rather than, "is he perfect?" the answer to the latter question will always be "no."

[Crazy Magnet]

What does it mean to you if you are less than perfect?

 

That's a good question. It would mean I'm normal! I know where my perfection issues come from and I've gotten over a lot of them in recent years. I know I still have work to do.

 

You have focussed on what you do for him. What does he do for you? What does he do to look after you/makes you a better person?

 

He keeps me laughing, keeps me connected to reality (I can get caught up in my school and research), feeds me, and in my time crunched life feeding me is a big thing , supports and comforts me, cheers me up, has really restored my faith in the male gender. I trust him more than I have ever trusted anyone, which is also a major mile stone for me. He listens when I come to him with a problem and we work out a mutually acceptable compromise.

 

LiveWell wrote me a book (well needed) and I'll attempt to answer everything.

 

We moved in together in July. I have asked a couple of times when we will get engaged and keep getting this "I want the relationship to develop organically" answer. I can't say that sits too well with me, but I've expressed that to him. He knows that I am not an "organic" development girl when it comes to engagement. A surprise proposal will get him a big fat NO. I need to emotionally prepare for this. He does clearly state though that he wants to marry me.

 

I once asked him exactly why he wasn't ready and I don't think he answered me, I think I'll ask again. I'm still open to indefinite engagement with no marriage at the end, so if that's what he wants to do, I'd be fully supportive of that. I just need some step between bf/gf and marriage that's a little more geared towards commitment.

 

We have had two sessions of couples counseling to help us communicate.

 

--will you have/raise kids together?: Yes, setting a date to start trying for children is actually something we have done unlike the marriage thing, and he has made it clear that he wants to be married before having kids

 

--careers/education and development of both--what plans and objectives do you have?: I will have to go where ever I am offered a tenure track position, he's cool with following. We had this discussion before we were ever bf/gf

 

--where do you want to live? buy a house? raise a family?: Where ever I get a tenure track job, we both know this

 

--financial--goals, objectives, habits/retirement plans?: we are both savers, have no credit card debt, don't live beyond our means, etc

 

--family: beyond having and raising children, how you/your bf relate to your larger extended families, in laws, etc., can have a big influence on the marital relationship: I essentially have no family left, he has a big family which I like. He keeps in touch with all of them although it's clear that some of the patterns of his childhood have made it over into his adult life. I'm sure through therapy he will start to see this. He's a smart man (despite not remembering where he puts his socks)

 

--religion--compatible?: Yes, completely, right down to the church we attend.

 

--politics (I think this is actually bogus, I would never let political differences get in the way of love; but a lot of people seem to think that it actually matters): lol He's a moderate Democrat, I'm an awful Republican. We think the same on pretty much all issues although he is very politically minded and wants to work in that sector.

 

 

This is trivial, unless his sloppiness is some kind of an indication of a broader personal problem of incompetence/disorganization which needs to be addressed in a larger way. Actually it sounds like more of a "power" issue in your relationship--you want him to do something which is actually pretty easy, he pushes back, etc. etc.-->it is indicative of a broader personal problem. (You can hire a maid for that if need be.) we have. More to come.

 

This is pretty typical of men actually. "Honey where are my socks?" Ok, then I'll just keep answering. Everything DOES have a place, but he selectively doesn't remember where that place is!

 

At least two issues I see here. (1) We didn't get the things done that needed to be done. The renter doesn't care as between the two of you, who was supposed to get what done. It's not clear what things he didn't do, but if it's stuff like maintenance or repainting that you are unable or unwilling to do yourself, then you hire it out if possible. (2) If this rental is supposed to be a business proposition, your friend should not be getting any breaks on the rent simply because she's your friend. That's actually kind of ridiculous, isn't it?: Let's talk about the house. It's HIS house and HIS house only. When he asked me to move in it was one step from slum. No one had even been to his house in about 8 years because it was that gross (an indication that messiness is a bit of an issue with this one). I had many reservations about his verbal confirmations that he would never be like that again....I do believe him and our house has been cleanish since we moved in together but it's only because I keep on his rear about his messes and he has to regularly keep up for the house cleaner to come. I know, it will take time for him to change, and I do see the huge effort he is making.

 

When I moved in we had to repaint everything (ceiling, walls, trim in every room) change all light fixtures (none were working) rip out and replace ALL flooring (1800 sq ft worth) rip out sub floor, replace duct work, install new doors, replaces hinges b/c his had rusted through and doors had literally fallen off, have major plumbing work done....it cost him $20,000 to fix the cat damage and general procrastination to keep the house up and it's still not finished. (no light in dining room, no light switches, mold growing up the back of the house that it's own eco system, broken window, etc.)

 

I was the one who took care of 95% of this stuff and it wasn't my mess to begin with. I picked everything out, found and hired the labor, drug him around to buy what had to be bought, etc. I do feel overwhelming underthanked for everything I did and he knows it. Not to mention moving out there in the middle of a renovation also added an hour to my commute each way.

 

After 4 months I couldn't take it anymore and told him I was moving back to my old neighborhood. He wanted to come too but wanted to rent his house out. I found him a renter because HE procrastinated. It's hard to get someone to move in on two weeks notice. She is saving his BUTT. He could have found a renter on his own but he did not. If you saw the amount of repairs the house still needed you would understand her concerns. She is a single mother and would like for kid to have a house with, you know, windows and working locks on the doors and stuff (as would any normal human being).

 

He told me how much to rent it out for so the price was entire his call.

Now let's talk about his responsibility to get his house finished. In addition to working full time, I am a full time PhD student at a top school in a top program. I don't have all this free time to finish HIS house. We aren't married so I won't see a financial return on my investments/time if we break up.

 

I'm suppose to wake up, drive an hour to work, work 10 hours, drive an hour home, do 3-4 hours of homework and THEN fix up his house while he works 9ish to 5ish at a very flexible job? Yeah....No.

 

Usually I just give him deadlines on his procrastination. For example, he put a bunch of shoes on the porch that his cats had peed in and it stunk horribly. I told him he had two weeks to do something with the shoes or I was throwing them all away. He didn't do anything, I threw away the shoes. He was miffed as he wanted to wash them or something, but I thought two weeks was long enough to do something with the shoes.

[Tinkerbell1]

As I see it, the issues that make you a bit crazy now, only get bigger and more annoying the longer you are together, married or not. The fact that you cant count on him to follow up on tasks that you both have agreed on, is a big issue. Particularly when you are both making a home and a life and you have joint finances. Love is definitely not enough to make a marriage work. whatever bothers you significantly now will get worse. My advice is, if you are serious about marrying this person in the near or even far future, go to counseling now, work on the specific issues that are of concern to you and see the actions change before you tie the knot. If he cant make these all important changes then it wouldnt be wise to marry him. So many of us women end up being mommies for men we are in love with, ie. doing it for them because they procrastinate, or they hung out with the buddies when they should have been doing a b or c. I agree with the other posters that there is no such thing as perfection. What you need to find out is what you can and cant live with long term. The can'ts will come back to bite you in the arse if you dont address them now.

[quankanne]

You'll know "for sure" when you can accept your guy for who he is including his flaws, and you can accept yourself for who you are including your flaws.

 

yep, that pretty much is the bulk of what makes the "right" partner ... somehow, you know it's a sure feeling that you've got about this guy, that even if the shxt were still to hit the fan, you can see yourself with him 40-50 years down the line, and in a good way.

 

how did I know my husband was the one? I could see certain situations in the future, and it didn't scare me like they normally did, because I realized I could remain committed to him and to us.

 

I also think that you've got to be practical about it, not just focus on the chemistry or that high you get when you think about the relationship. You know his flaws, and while they may drive you nuts, you understand that feeling is never as important as the bedrock of love the relationship has ...

[emmalee]

Why would making him your husband change anything in the relationship?

 

Getting married is essentially a piece of paper & sharing a last name.

 

Many couples who aren't married have the exact same issues as married couples.

[Lauriebell82]

Nobody is perfect, therefore no relationship/marriage is going to be perfect either.

 

EVERYBODY has flaws, no matter who are you. I think the question you need to ask yourself before getting married isn't "Is this the perfect person for me?" it should be "Can I look beyond his imperfections and deal with them?" Because he won't change once you get married.

 

I got married 5 weeks ago and my husband STILL has the same flaws he did when we were dating and engaged. He isn't going to change and I know that. I decided before I married him that I could deal with those flaws on a daily basis and not let them upset me, which I have.

 

There is a saying "Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect, it means you have managed to look beyond the imperfections" or something to that effect.

 

So you have to ask yourself: Can I deal with these annoyances on a daily basis and not try to change him or flip out everytime he does them? If you answered "no" then a marriage with this person probably would not work.

[strength-abounds]

Ok, so I'm probably not normal , but...

 

I live with my BF, we have talked about marriage and he says he sees the relationship moving in that direction. I alternate back and forth between wanting to get married and being scared ****less about getting married due to my past super awful marriage and divorce. I don't want to make another mistake.

 

It's time like these when I wish I had parents to talk to about this kind of stuff.

 

How do I know "for sure" if he's the right one? For the most part, say 93%, the relationship is great, he's caring, genuine, funny, etc. We just really get each other and have a great connection and amazing chemistry. I still love all the things about him that I loved in the beginning. He has some flaws too that have caused some issues between us, like lack of boundaries with the opposite sex (taken care of, but I posted threads about it) and procrastination (very not taken care of at this point in time).

 

I know that there will never be a "perfect" relationship, but for those who got married, did you feel your relationship was "perfect" at the time you decided to get married? Sometimes I think I have unrealistic expectations of what a relationship has to be like before two people can get married and I'm not sure how to align my fantasy of perfection with reality. Or maybe I'm way off and everybody who gets married thinks their relationship is perfect at that time? What if I'm just too picky?

 

I feel like I'm constantly asking him to complete chores around the house that he should just complete on his own at this point (like cleaning up his own mess!). I also feel like I'm his second brain a lot of the time. He's always asking me where things are. Granted, I basically know where every last thing is in the house, but why can't he figure out where the scissors are if he wants to use them, or where he puts his socks, or keys or whatever else he's looking for? His procrastination bothers me too, although almost every guy I've dated has had a tendency for this one.

 

If he procrastinates on something that only affects him, I let experience the consequences on his own and he has to fix it himself. If he's procrastinating on something that affects us both I get on him about it, and even then sometimes he puts things off until after a decision has to be made or an action has to be taken. I usually let him dig us out of that one too since his procrastination was the cause of the problem. Like currently, we had a renter lined up for the house, but he didn't get the things done he said he would, and the renter either a) won't sign the lease or b) will only sign it if we drastically lower the price. (She's already paying less than the mortgage because she's one of my good friends). I'm so embarrassed that he chose to be with his friends, watch football, etc rather than get his grown up responsibilities done and get this house ready for my friend. She was doing me a favor by moving in and yet he procrastinated and it's now really going to impact us financially. $1100 a month might not be a lot to some people, but to me it's very wasteful when a couple days of work would have ensured a renter for the next 3 years.

 

I know I'm more ambitious than 99% of the population, and that I expect perfection of myself and I can be overly critical of others who don't meet my perfection standards. I can't tell if these things bother me because I expect perfection, or if they are normal things that go on in every relationship. Am I overly critical? Is this normal?

 

How did you know you wanted to marry your W/H? Please don't tell me "I just knew" because given my romantic past I don't think that is possible for me.

 

IMO, it sounds like you have already answered the question in your post but you just haven't realized it.

[make me believe]

As I see it, the issues that make you a bit crazy now, only get bigger and more annoying the longer you are together, married or not. The fact that you cant count on him to follow up on tasks that you both have agreed on, is a big issue. Particularly when you are both making a home and a life and you have joint finances. Love is definitely not enough to make a marriage work. whatever bothers you significantly now will get worse.

 

I agree with Tinkerbell. Also, I actually find the housework thing to be a big issue. FOR ME it would be a dealbreaker. This is because I've witnessed so many instances where a couple just fights & argues & bickers constantly about housework. It seems so unnecessary to me. Yes, housework and chores are "trivial" things, but the fact is they are common things that people fight about. I don't want to spend my days nagging & fighting with my partner just to get him to pick up his socks. IMO this is an important thing to be compatible on.

 

The procrastination thing would really bother me, too. Basically throwing away $1100 a month because he's too lazy to get the house ready for a renter? I would have a hard time respecting a guy who does things like that. That combined with what you said about the chores & cleaning make him seem really immature, like he wants to act like a little boy and have you take on the responsible "mom" role. (Which it sounds like you've already fallen into.)

 

I don't think you are being overly critical. I think you are being smart to consider whether these are things you can live with for the rest of your life. If your BF never changes these aspects of himself, are you going to be ok with that? Are you going to refrain from fighting with him about chores & procrastination, considering that you are well aware that this is how he is?

 

Ahh...actually, now that I've read the thread more closely & saw the additional details you provided, I remember your other thread about the $20k worth of damage that he did to his house. Gahh. This guy SERIOUSLY sounds immature & this behavior is NOT going to change. Anyone who can cause/allow that much damage to happen to their house isn't suddenly going to start caring about cleaning up a spill or putting their socks away. And the fact that YOU took care of 95% of everything?? Huuuuge red flag. He sounds incredibly irresponsible and, to be honest, kind of gross. I think you need to seriously reevaluate his ability to be a TRUE, grown-up partner to you.

[Zapbasket]

Ahh...actually, now that I've read the thread more closely & saw the additional details you provided, I remember your other thread about the $20k worth of damage that he did to his house. Gahh. This guy SERIOUSLY sounds immature & this behavior is NOT going to change. Anyone who can cause/allow that much damage to happen to their house isn't suddenly going to start caring about cleaning up a spill or putting their socks away. And the fact that YOU took care of 95% of everything?? Huuuuge red flag. He sounds incredibly irresponsible and, to be honest, kind of gross. I think you need to seriously reevaluate his ability to be a TRUE, grown-up partner to you.

 

I agree with this. To each one's own, of course, but the fact that he'd allow his home to fall into such disarray speaks to more than his cleanliness. It says a lot about his character. Is he responsible in his job? Has he always had someone in his life taking care of him? Is he suffering from chronic mild depression? Something lies at the root of this behavior, and it's more than likely *not* something you can help him fix.

 

In one of my threads you said something about how you question your responses to things because you recognize that you can be "oversensitive" at times. We were saying that we share this trait. I also am a perfectionist in my pursuits and hypercritical of myself, and frequently that spills over into my perceptions of others. I don't suffer fools, wimps, of sloths very well and I know I can be as hard on others sometimes as I am on myself. So, often I question myself when I find myself irritated at someone's behavior. It seems you do the same, and I think it's key what someone said here earlier that more important than the *issues* themselves is the person's willingness to work on those issues--not just because *you* asked them to, but because they want to work on the issues for their own good, and their own self-improvement.

 

I also agree with the wonderful post from LiveWell, about you working on some of your responses to your man's procrastination. If you sit back and let him reap the consequences, because you're a team, you're BOTH going to suffer. Also, it sets up a "See I told you so" dynamic that isn't healthy. I can understand at the same time that if you pitch in and get the thing done yourself every time he procrastinates, you'll be working 20-hour days and just be miserable with exhaustion and resentment. And it's that catch-22 that causes me to suggest you REALLY consider whether you can live with this guy's flaws for years and years to come.

[Crazy Magnet]

I agree with this. To each one's own, of course, but the fact that he'd allow his home to fall into such disarray speaks to more than his cleanliness. It says a lot about his character. Is he responsible in his job? Has he always had someone in his life taking care of him? Is he suffering from chronic mild depression? Something lies at the root of this behavior, and it's more than likely *not* something you can help him fix.

 

In one of my threads you said something about how you question your responses to things because you recognize that you can be "oversensitive" at times. We were saying that we share this trait. I also am a perfectionist in my pursuits and hypercritical of myself, and frequently that spills over into my perceptions of others. I don't suffer fools, wimps, of sloths very well and I know I can be as hard on others sometimes as I am on myself. So, often I question myself when I find myself irritated at someone's behavior. It seems you do the same, and I think it's key what someone said here earlier that more important than the *issues* themselves is the person's willingness to work on those issues--not just because *you* asked them to, but because they want to work on the issues for their own good, and their own self-improvement.

 

I also agree with the wonderful post from LiveWell, about you working on some of your responses to your man's procrastination. If you sit back and let him reap the consequences, because you're a team, you're BOTH going to suffer. Also, it sets up a "See I told you so" dynamic that isn't healthy. I can understand at the same time that if you pitch in and get the thing done yourself every time he procrastinates, you'll be working 20-hour days and just be miserable with exhaustion and resentment. And it's that catch-22 that causes me to suggest you REALLY consider whether you can live with this guy's flaws for years and years to come.

 

This is where I'm at this week. I see my options for dynamics and I don't like either one. It feels like I either have the option to be his "mom" or say "I told you so." Neither one reflect who I am or something I want to get stuck with forever.

 

 

Erg. I'm going to have to spend some time thinking about this one.

 

 

I do think I need to shelve the future talks for a while and see how things go. I'm not in any hurry to commit to anyone.

 

 

I think I need to let things calm down with the move and everything for a few weeks and then sit down and have a heart to heart with him.

[Green]

This is where I'm at this week. I see my options for dynamics and I don't like either one. It feels like I either have the option to be his "mom" or say "I told you so." Neither one reflect who I am or something I want to get stuck with forever.

 

 

Erg. I'm going to have to spend some time thinking about this one.

 

 

I do think I need to shelve the future talks for a while and see how things go. I'm not in any hurry to commit to anyone.

 

 

I think I need to let things calm down with the move and everything for a few weeks and then sit down and have a heart to heart with him.

 

If you are happy just having some one to live with and date right now then don't even think about the future talks especialy if you are cool being unmarried longer.

 

Are you looking to have kids?

[Crazy Magnet]

If you are happy just having some one to live with and date right now then don't even think about the future talks especialy if you are cool being unmarried longer.

 

Are you looking to have kids?

 

Eventually I'd like to have kids. I don't think it's unrealistic to wait until after the PhD is finished to start having them though. I'm also perfectly fine having children on my own. Financially I can more than afford myself and a baby.

 

I'm still on the fence about marriage in general. I could take it or leave it either way. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt and could probably win awards for marrying the biggest **&^$$%$%^&()(*&^ on the planet.

 

I need to go back to focusing on me and worry about me getting the most important things done in my life. He can get it together or not. Either way, I'm going places.

[terra]

Hey CM,

I think I've posted this exact question, but unlike you I've never been married and divorced so you have even more justification to be apprehensive.

I am just terribly afraid of commitment (although it's getting better) and question everything. Plus this is my first serious relationship so I'm always wondering if what I'm experiencing is normal.

 

We moved in a few months ago and it's going well. We've had some issues but talked about how to deal with them and I see that he puts in effort in the areas that bother me and I do the same. Just seeing that he is trying to make things work and make me happy is the most important thing and it makes it easy for me to do the same for him.

 

Perhaps explain to your guy what is frustrating for you -for example the procrastination thing - and get him to suggest a good way for you to deal with it. Perhaps getting treated like a child makes him want to put things off even more, or maybe he likes the reminder. In any case if you have a system in place before hand (and he is the one that suggested it) then it might make things less frustrating for you.

 

I guess everyone has their differences and it's our willingness to communicate and compromise that makes it worth staying with someone.

but I'm still navigating this one...

good luck to you!

[Crazy Magnet]

~sigh~

 

No sign of growing up from him so far. There's an entire room of boxes to unpack and when I called to ask him if he would be home in time to walk the dog with me he said probably not because it's election night and he wants to watch all the coverage.

 

My pessimistic self says that will translate into him flopping on the couch and not unpacking a thing, or folding the laundry that has now been sitting there for two weeks, or helping me get the kitchen in order. Heaven forbid he miss election coverage night. Never mind that we can't get to the stove...

 

My optimistic self says he will walk the dog with me (our only together time tonight) and fold the laundry while he watches the coverage and unpacks boxes, one at a time without prompting.

 

Time will tell!

[sumdude]

CM.. ask yourself if you're considering marrying a project or a complete person. His house is a project... and that's indicative of something for sure. I mean yes people can change... but they have to be their own impetus for change. When you find yourself constantly having to tell him to do things and getting frustrated he's going to see it as nagging. I doubt one day he's going to wake up a different person. You may love him in many ways but imagine 10 years of this frustration.

 

A man marries a woman hoping she'll never change and often she does. A woman marries a man hoping he'll change and he rarely does.

 

Like you I've been there done that too. If I ever go down that path again I want to be pretty confident that the living together compatibility is there.

 

Currently I have a housemate. He never really cleans, he's pretty much a slob. I find myself doing most of the cleaning around the. But he's a friend as well as the fact he always pays the rent on time so I put up with it to help with the mortgage. That's a temporary thing, one day he'll move out. I know I could never marry a woman with those same living habits.

 

You just have to know what you're willing to put up with. Either accept him exactly as he is today or move on.

Edited November 2, 2010 by sumdude

[Crazy Magnet]

99.9% of the time I can accept his procrastination as it usually doesn't affect our relationship to this degree. I blame his procrastination on his house for our current lack of sex and couple time, which just isn't acceptable to me. I've initiated sex the past two days because I just couldn't go anymore without that intimate connection. He literally blamed not getting his stuff done last night on sex. Because in his mind "sex time" took up all his "unpacking time." Come on!! It wasn't that long. lol

 

I know we have been under immense stress lately with a second move in 4 months, big projects at work, lots of things due at school, my daddy is sick, his parents randomly invading for the weekend, finishing up his house. I try to be reasonable in my expectations but I think part of the problem here is that I am expecting it all to be done RIGHT NOW because I'm tired of waiting.

 

We have another counseling session on Friday. I feel confident that the counseling will help us to either communicate better and make it work or realize that we don't need to be together.

 

He said he is open to a chore chart. Thoughts?

[make me believe]

He said he is open to a chore chart. Thoughts?

 

Ridiculous.

 

It may be an unpopular opinion, because I see chore charts being recommended pretty often, but I think it is utterly ridiculous to make such a thing for an adult life partner as if he is a child who needs to be told what to do. He can't look around and figure out what needs to be done on his own? The trashcan is full but he can't take the initiative to take it out unless it's on his "chore chart"? Give me a break!

[carhill]

Words I've heard:

 

'How do I know it needs to be done unless you tell me?'

 

'You saw it needed to be done. Why didn't you do it?'

 

'Post a list on the fridge. I work better from lists'

 

And such was a part of the 'normal' of my M.....

[TheMENemy]

Some people just aren't cut out to be homeowners.

 

Owning a home is a pretty huge responsibility.

 

My house is my nemesis.

 

Sometimes I feel like it's actually out to get me.

[Crazy Magnet]

Ridiculous.

 

It may be an unpopular opinion, because I see chore charts being recommended pretty often, but I think it is utterly ridiculous to make such a thing for an adult life partner as if he is a child who needs to be told what to do. He can't look around and figure out what needs to be done on his own? The trashcan is full but he can't take the initiative to take it out unless it's on his "chore chart"? Give me a break!

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

We are having the moment of truth talk tonight. I can't take it anymore.

[tfkizzle]

~sigh~

 

No sign of growing up from him so far. There's an entire room of boxes to unpack and when I called to ask him if he would be home in time to walk the dog with me he said probably not because it's election night and he wants to watch all the coverage.

 

My pessimistic self says that will translate into him flopping on the couch and not unpacking a thing, or folding the laundry that has now been sitting there for two weeks, or helping me get the kitchen in order. Heaven forbid he miss election coverage night. Never mind that we can't get to the stove...

 

My optimistic self says he will walk the dog with me (our only together time tonight) and fold the laundry while he watches the coverage and unpacks boxes, one at a time without prompting.

 

Time will tell!

Are we dating the same person?

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

We are having the moment of truth talk tonight. I can't take it anymore.

 

How did it go?