Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[donnamaybe]

Emotional dysfunction or scars are not a prerequisite for an FWB-type relationship. Just because this the case for you doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.

Again, there are some very narrow minds on this thread.

[Leigh 87]

Yes that has been my experience.

 

It is actually a reasonable assumption to make for several reasons. First, It shows a strong ability to compartmentalize feelings. It displays a disregard and casual attitude towards sex... like it doesn't matter who you sleep with. It also makes it very clear that she is not willing to wait for someone who worthwhile.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously... I'm not going to argue with you. All I'm going to say is that your a very nice lady... but you have zero understanding of male sexuality.

 

We can't have a serious discussion about this until you break out of that female centric POV.

 

I really get where your coming from... but if you can't understand how guys see this... your literally missing half the story.

 

 

 

Leigh... I know that for you sex without love is just sex.

 

What is sex without love to the guy your having sex with? Do you know?

 

 

Your problem is, that u think it is wrong to have sex without love. There is nothing wrong with having sex without love. SOme women have a very natural sex drive, that is quiet high.

 

The guy I had sex with did not love me, to him it was just sex too.

 

WHhat is wrong with a women who has sex without love? WHy is she not respectable? I do not have sex often at all. Sex without love does not equate to sleeping around. I had sex once in 5 years! I have not, and DO not, sleep around.

 

Having sex once every 2 - 3 months, for fun, without a loving partner, is not sleeping around, either. Lastly, sex without love DOES NOT ruin this womens capacity to ever be a lovoing partner.

 

A women who enjoys casual sex occasionally can STILL be a good long term partner later on, when she is READY for a relationship.

 

I am not ready for a relationship, SO WHY SHOULD I, and WHO ARTE YOU to tell me that I should wait until I am in a SERIOUS relationship? I do not want to wait until I want a boyfriend to have sexual fun.

 

No NORMAL man would care or JUDGE a women, if she slept with a few guys in the past for fun - it does not change a womens character if she has had casual sex in the past; it does not mean she has slept around too much... casual sex can simply be done very occasionally, and does not mean the women cannot control her sexual impulses, and has sex with hundreds of men........

 

I can only see myself having sex 2 - 4 times a year with differnet men, in casual relationships, or as a fling ( whereby I get to know them for a couple of months, make sure we feel the right chemistry, then have a fling, then do not really talk much afterwards).

 

I had a fling recently, not a casual relationship. It does NOT make me any less suitable as a partner, the fact that I decidedto have sex for the first time in five years.

 

If I decided to have sex one more time this year, and then 2 more times in 2011, for instance, it does not make me any less suitable as al ong term partner, if I were to meet some one in 2013, would it?

 

Most NORMAL men would not KNOW if a women like myself, was not ready for a relationship during her early 20's, and had a few ( A FEW meaning about 4) flings with men, because she loved sex, and did not want to wait until she was in a committed relationship.

 

The reason is, most women who have OCCASIONAL flings, DO NOT ACT ANY DIFFERENTLY OR ANY LESS RESPECTABLE than WOMEN WHO DO NOT have flings... hence u cannot TELL such women who have flings.

 

There is a BIG difference between a women who sleeps around, and a women who has flings every noe and again.

[EasyHeart]

Leigh:

 

I'm curious: what do you see as the difference between "casual sex", a "fling", a "casual relationship" and a "serious relationship"? Have you ever "dated" anyone?

[LiveWell]

Someone who is a friend.

 

Not really, you're allowing the euphemism to overtake the reality. We'll see below how much of a "friend" he really is/was.

 

 

Someone I found appealing for spending time with and having sex but who also possessed qualities that I don't want in a serious partner.

 

You don't want a serious partner who is also your "friend"?

 

 

How we spent time or where we would go was not really limited in any way to specific activities or places.

 

Well the only relevant "activities" were sexual. That's the problem with using euphemisms. You're dancing around the core of what the relationship is, which is a sexual interaction.

 

 

 

Where the limitations came in was:

 

They didn't get to know my son.

 

And this is what proves quite clearly that he wasn't really your "friend."

 

Unless of course you isolate your son from all your real friends. Do you? If so, why or why not?

 

 

 

I didn't make life plans with them in mind. I didn't mix my finances with them or move in with them. I didn't talk about the future with them as though they were a part of that future.

 

That's precisely the point, you compartmentalized the sexual aspect of your relationship so that it was not even a possibility that a purely sexual relationship would have a chance to develop into something more. That's really why FWBs are strong indicators of emotional damage or trauma; it's not that it's only sex, it's that it's sex which specifically excludes anything more.

 

 

I also didn't let them whine and guilt me into a relationship I already knew was not going to be right for me in the long run. When I met someone with more potential for a successful relationship, I would tell the FWB I'd met someone and we would stop having sex. They would still be a friend. I did not keep it a secret from anyone I dated.

 

A friend who was never allowed to meet your child?

 

 

When I was younger, I had let the kind of people I would now consider FWB material, guilt me into a relationships.

 

Even in hindsight it appears you do not take personal responsibility for your decision to enter into prior relationships which resulted in failure. No one "guilted" you into anything; you chose to be in consensual relationships, for whatever reasons made sense to you at the time.

 

 

I knew less then about what kind of partner I needed for a successful relationship. They would want a relationship and back then, I felt validated by their want for a relationship.

 

This is psychobabble. You entered into prior relationships because you wanted to. They entered into the relationship with you, because they also wanted to. However, you did not enter into any relationship because someone else wanted to be in a relationship with you. The claim that someone else's wanting to be in a relationship with you is what "caused" you to want to be in a relationship with the other person, rather than your own desire to be in that relationship, is convenient but still you were in control of your actions.

 

 

After I learned more about what I needed in a serious partner and what I had to offer in a relationship, I no longer needed that validation. I stopped letting relationships just HAPPEN to me.

 

But they never just "happened" to you. Unless they were somehow non consensual? How is that possible?

 

 

This crap about women not be able to have sex without getting attached isn't so much about being female as it is the mindset of the woman being pursued by the man who then decides whether or not to stick around. I realized it was also ME who could choose to stick around or not AND I could decide what qualities I would and wouldn't stick around for.

 

Yes, but it's always been that way. You "realized" something that has always been the case. Nothing has changed. When you got into prior bad relationships it was also you "choosing" to do so. Maybe you just had lower standards back then.

 

 

What I see is that women are more likely to get caught up in the need to be chosen than a man typically will. Men generally feel validated more simply by a woman choosing to have sex with him whether she wants more than that or not. So once he has achieved that, he may or may not decide to stick around. He may feel further validated if she starts pressuring him for a relationship, but even if she doesn't he still feels validated by having attained the sex.

 

It's pretty interesting that in this detailed analysis you've provided there's no mention of any emotional attachment as being a motivation by either of the sexes for wanting to stick around in a relationship.

 

 

Who gets caught up in a FWB mess is not a gender thing to me.

 

LOL you slipped up a little here by calling it an FWB "mess." Why "mess" all of a sudden? Aren't FWBs perfectly "valid" relationships?

 

 

Its about who craves external validation the most. You might still want or enjoy companionship and sexual intimacy, but to become invested in someone beyond that should be determined by more than just sexual attraction and the ability to tolerate their company for a while.

 

 

It seems to me that no one should be having sex with any person, "friend" or not, that they're afraid to expose their children to.

[utterer of lies]

What makes you think that it applies to me, personally, at all?

 

It's not a logical or obvious conclusion one would make, and you did not supply any arguments. therefore I thought you based it on your experiences.

 

I never stated I've ever personally been in a one of these types of relationships myself. I have however observed other participants, and I have further data based on what I can observe of various people posting here.

 

So you don't know what you are talking about except for stuff you read on some internet forum?

 

Your screen name is "uttereroflies." Doesn't that "say it all?"

 

I don't know. Does it?

[donnamaybe]

It's not a logical or obvious conclusion one would make, and you did not supply any arguments. therefore I thought you based it on your experiences.

Obviously, logic hasn't entered into this thread for some folks. It's pure emotion, as in "I think women should behave thus and such and if they don't do so, there's something emotionally wrong with them."

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yeah, right. Ask the guy in question who wanted more and didn't get it and cried into the telephone.

Don't you dare define my relationships for me. I know what they are because I have lived them. You don't know jack about 'em.

Then again, I"m not surprised at the presumptuousness.

 

I would not call that an FWB situation, because it doesn't fit the criteria of what I'm talking about. As you say it was your relationship and you may call it what you like. Just know that it is not the type of relationship I'm talking about.

[donnamaybe]

I would not call that an FWB situation, because it doesn't fit the criteria of what I'm talking about. As you say it was your relationship and you may call it what you like. Just know that it is not the type of relationship I'm talking about.

Did I miss something, or didn't someone else start this thread?

[LiveWell]

You can actually HEAR me? Wow. That's quite the skill.

 

No, because all you seem to do is "shout." It's really not necessary. If you think you actually have persuasive arguments, all you're doing is drowning yourself out. Let your persuasive arguments speak for themselves, it's far more effective than your approach.

 

 

Who are you to decide that what someone else wants is out of their reach? Many people are very happy with simple things in life which are quite easily attainable.

 

"I" didn't "decide" anything. That's precisely the point. It is life itself that ultimately decides what we "will" and "will not" get out of it. And it doesn't matter whether the things that are wanted are simple or not.

 

 

Perhaps if you tone down the presumptuousness of some of your posts, it might help the discussion.

 

This is on the level of the schoolyard, "I'm rubber you're glue" type of argument.

 

I'm perfectly content with the way I present my points which is in a consistently logical manner.

 

You might be well served to try the same once in a while.

[abouttoloseit]

So you don't know what you are talking about except for stuff you read on some internet forum?

 

 

 

So you could apply that same rule like this:

 

Someone who has not commited murder (or had a FWB Relationship), should not judge someone who has(Who has). Because they themselves have never murdered?

 

Hehe, would it stand in court?

[LiveWell]

I don't think the statement was intended as a prediction or entitlement. I read it as being aspirational.

 

You're being too polite. If it was intended to be aspirational I think the person who posted it would have phrased it that way ("I hope you will have everything you want in life" or something similar).

 

No, she said you WILL have everything you want in life. "Will" capitalized and bolded. There's no real doubt of what she was trying to convey.

 

And when I pointed this out, we get folks like donnamaybe shrilly attacking, saying "Why not? Why shouldn't she get everything she wants in life?"

 

Maybe she will, maybe she won't. But surely no one here can guarantee anything, and she's not "entitled" to get ANYTHING at all.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

 

 

There is a BIG difference between a women who sleeps around, and a women who has flings every noe and again.

 

Leigh, please don't feel you need to justify your own choice because of the attitudes of some people here. If YOU are okay with it, then it IS okay for you. If you wanted to and did have sex with many random people and felt fine with that, it would indeed be fine. Same goes for every other person, woman or man.

 

As stated here, there will be some guys who won't see you as a suitable "mate" because you had NSA sex one or 400 times. That is their choice too. It's really fine, because a person who would judge you harshly would not be a good mate for YOU.

 

Don't let the ignorance and fear of other people dictate how you live. "To thine own self be true."

[sally4sara]

a bunch of words I didn't even bother reading all of once I realized you just wanted to argue

 

My husband was someone I slated as a FWB initially. He didn't meet my son for almost a year. And no, not many of my friends were brought around my son because he was ages 4 -8 while I was single. He didn't need to be around a bunch of adults socializing as adults about adult subjects.

I'm just not someone who jumps into a full blown relationship right away simply because I'm having sex with someone. I'm also not someone into sport fking. So it stands to reason I kept things casual and got to know someone before making them a priority in my life. Till they showed they were someone I could count on, FWB was all I could offer them.

 

And for some, they were good people I enjoyed time and sex with even though I'd learned things about them that I knew were not qualities I wanted on a permanent basis.

 

For instance, I met my husband through his roomate. His roomate was a guy I dated casually for a couple months over a year prior to dating my husband. Hes a great guy who ended up not being what I considered "relationship material". We're all still great friends. He has been in town this past week visiting us from the state we moved from. He is staying with us; in the living room right now munching on a cheeseburger.

 

My son is older now and knows the vast majority of my friends because he can understand and participate better in group conversations with adults.

[donnamaybe]

No, because all you seem to do is "shout." It's really not necessary. If you think you actually have persuasive arguments, all you're doing is drowning yourself out. Let your persuasive arguments speak for themselves, it's far more effective than your approach.

I hate to break it to ya, but no one can shout on an internet forum unless they purposely do so by typing in all caps consistantly. I choose to emphasize some words with caps, but that is my right and I'll do it if I damn well please. Interestingly enough, I get lots of "props" for my posting style on LS. And you?

 

This is on the level of the schoolyard, "I'm rubber you're glue" type of argument.

 

I'm perfectly content with the way I present my points which is in a consistently logical manner.

 

You might be well served to try the same once in a while.

And I was merely pointing out YOUR (there's those damn caps again - do you deem that shouting? ) posting style which is actually quite grating and COMPLETELY without logic. Fortunately, since I can tell the type of person you are, your viewpoints mean nothing to me personally. I just feel a need to refute them for the younger gals who might actually be talked into buying into some of the rubbish I've been reading.

[donnamaybe]

shrilly attacking

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

No, she said you WILL have everything you want in life.

 

 

 

.

 

In fact, this is not what she said.

 

In the context, I think it's fair to assume that she meant that Leigh would have everything she wanted in a relationship (the "in life" part was added by LiveWell). That doesn't imply entitlement. What a person does or does not have in a relationship is largely up to them. If Leigh holds out for what she wants, is willing and able to put in the work necessary, and can offer what the partner she wants is looking for ... why can't she have what she wants in a relationship? I do.

[abouttoloseit]

your viewpoints mean nothing to me personally. .

 

 

So why do you keep replying to him and defending yourself!

[donnamaybe]

So why do you keep replying to him and defending yourself!

Because it's so FUN to have a verbal sparring match with an unarmed opponent.

[Mme. Chaucer]

LiveWell, are you also known as InceptorsRule, Troggleputty, et al? Just asking ...

[theBrokenMuse]

It seems to me that no one should be having sex with any person, "friend" or not, that they're afraid to expose their children to.

It has nothing to do with fear, it has to do with the fact that such things can be confusing for children which is why many psychologists recommend against introducing casual dates to your children.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Haha! You are talking about Little Tiger?!?! She clearly presents herself as having a very fulfilling and evolved relationship with a MAN as well as a balanced and deep understanding of love, sex, and relationships - one that doesn't even include the denigration of the millions of men with whom she is NOT in a relationship! Imagine!

Aside from yourself and a couple of the other guys here who are terrified of women who are not demonstrably under society's, or mens control, I bet that

male and female posters here on LS would agree.

Untouchable_Fire, as I have said before, I am pleased for you that you have found what you need in a woman as long as you are not abusive towards her. They type of insecurity that you demonstrate here does, sadly often result in abusive behavior.

I understand that you have had bad experiences with women and that you're (that contraction contains an apostrophe - sorry, a pet peeve of mine) the type of individual who will extrapolate those few instances without, of course, any accountability for your own part in them, to include all women from your culture in general. Your needs and perceptions regarding gender relations are so defined by fear, ignorance and bigotry that they really have no bearing on gender relations among the rest of us.

 

There is always this natural inclination to be condescending when responding to someone you disagree with. I fight that urge quite a bit... and a fair number of times I lose. I don't think you even try.

 

Your thinking is a full generation behind. I neither want nor need to control a woman. Instead I expect her to have some self control, and when I find that lacking I have no interest in dating her. You seem to have a problem with that attitude... have you considered that perhaps the control issues are yours?

 

I agree with what LT is saying from a female perspective... and that would be great if we were talking about lesbians. However, she does not understand how men view this (not all men but a large majority). So... what's the point in going further in that vein.

 

I appreciate your grammar lesson, but I think you are taking yourself way too seriously. This is an anonymous internet forum... it's not going to be published in the New York Times. I'm well aware of the differences in your and you're... also there, their, and they're... and many other homophones. I think in the interest of speed I will continue to use them interchangeably. I believe it is safe to assume you have the intellect to puzzle out my meaning.

[stillafool]

What you described was people who lied or miscommunicated with one another.

 

How do you know? Do you know these people?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Did I miss something, or didn't someone else start this thread?

 

OP is currently MIA.

 

Are you playing yourself as a woman being a man's fbuddy?

Can a woman really engage in this type of relationship for a long time without catching feelings?

Do you put her mentally in a box which means she will ONLY be a piece of a/ss and nothing more?

Are we just adults and SHOULD BE able to handle this decision?

 

You are not good enough to be my girlfriend.

I am waiting for something better to come along.

Free to fk anybody else and not have to answer to you.

Free to find another woman and give her more..family time, money, etc.

 

DM, I don't think the above statements describe your situation.

 

I know this thread has wandered off into the weeds a bit... but THIS is the type of relationship OP was talking about as FBuddies or FWB.

[LiveWell]

Your problem is, that u think it is wrong to have sex without love. There is nothing wrong with having sex without love. SOme women have a very natural sex drive, that is quiet high.

 

It is not "wrong" to have sex without love, however, if it becomes a "habit" then it is clearly a sign of some pretty serious emotional damage or dysfunction. This is true of both men and women. As evidenced by experience.

 

How many of the women (or men) posting in this thread who can claim to have a significant history of FWB's or FBuddy type relationships can simultaneously claim to also have a history of healthy, committed, loving relationships?

 

How many of you ladies and men advocating FWBs are actually IN a healthy, committed, loving relationship, RIGHT NOW? "Committed" means married, the apotheosis of "commitment."

 

Shacked up doesn't count. If you're not married or in a legally recognized domestic partnership, then you can bail anytime you want. You may think marriage is a piece of paper but it represents another level of commitment beyond simply "being in a relationship" and sharing housekeeping.

 

Raise hands, please?

 

Or if you claim to be in a "committed" relationship which is just as good as being married, please indicate your reasons for not being married and/or the reasons for your belief that getting married is meaningless.

 

 

 

The guy I had sex with did not love me, to him it was just sex too.

 

Birds of a feather frequently "flock" together.

 

 

What is wrong with a women who has sex without love?

 

Nothing, unless you think being emotionally alienated is "wrong." If you're cool with not seeking or wanting to be in a meaningful emotional/physical/everything relationship with someone, game on, enjoy.

 

 

Why is she not respectable? I do not have sex often at all. Sex without love does not equate to sleeping around. I had sex once in 5 years! I have not, and DO not, sleep around.

 

How is sex one time in five years a friend with benefits situation, which implies recurring casual sex between two people? If you had sex one time with the guy then it was a one night stand, or maybe a one day stand, or maybe just a five minute stand.

 

 

Having sex once every 2 - 3 months, for fun, without a loving partner, is not sleeping around, either. Lastly, sex without love DOES NOT ruin this womens capacity to ever be a loving partner.

 

Who are you talking about now? I thought you said you only had sex the one time in five years?

 

It's all a spectrum, it's not black and white obviously. A woman who is not in a relationship is allowed to have sex obviously, even casual. But someone who deliberately seeks out a continuing relationship which is explicitly sexual only, but with no chance to build a full relationship out of it, is probably dealing with a lot of unpleasant baggage. Man, or woman. Someone who does it multiple times definitely has a problem if only because by doing so they are likely excluding opportunities for healthier relationships while they are involved in the FWBs.

 

 

A women who enjoys casual sex occasionally can STILL be a good long term partner later on, when she is READY for a relationship.

 

Again it's a spectrum. I don't think we are talking about someone who is just sowing some wild oats or fresh out of a divorce and needs to get laid a couple of times. We are talking about people, men and women, who deliberately aspire to continuing relationships which specifically exclude meaningful emotional interaction with the other person.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not ready for a relationship, SO WHY SHOULD I, and WHO ARTE YOU to tell me that I should wait until I am in a SERIOUS relationship? I do not want to wait until I want a boyfriend to have sexual fun.

 

An FWB IS a "relationship." It is an interaction between yourself and another person, therefore it MUST be a "relationship." You obviously have your own definition of what "relationship" means.

 

If you are having sex with a boy, then I assure you, he IS your "boyfriend." He may be the sort of a "boyfriend" who is embarrassed to be seen in public with you, or who you are embarrassed to be seen in public with; nevertheless it is what it is.

 

No NORMAL man would care or JUDGE a women, if she slept with a few guys in the past for fun - it does not change a womens character if she has had casual sex in the past; it does not mean she has slept around too much...

 

On the contrary, if you expressed these candid attitudes to MOST men, whether you think them to be "normal" or not, they would think you might be a bad relationship risk. If you spend a great deal of your time with men who like to get involved in FWBs, then what you consider "normal" is going to be "normal" only for people who engage in FWBs.

 

 

casual sex can simply be done very occasionally, and does not mean the women cannot control her sexual impulses, and has sex with hundreds of men........

 

Was it only several dozens, not hundreds? Why I am sure any man you marry will be please to know that!

 

I can only see myself having sex 2 - 4 times a year with differnet men, in casual relationships, or as a fling ( whereby I get to know them for a couple of months, make sure we feel the right chemistry, then have a fling, then do not really talk much afterwards).

 

Sex 2-4 times a year is not an FWB. Having a ONS once every three or four months because you need the physical release is NOT the same as ensnaring yourself in a continuing emotionally stunted relationship with a man.

 

I had a fling recently, not a casual relationship. It does NOT make me any less suitable as a partner, the fact that I decidedto have sex for the first time in five years.

 

How is a "fling" NOT a "casual" relationship?

 

 

 

If I decided to have sex one more time this year, and then 2 more times in 2011, for instance, it does not make me any less suitable as al ong term partner, if I were to meet some one in 2013, would it?

 

It might make you less suitable, but again, these would be a series of ONS, not FWB.

 

Most NORMAL men would not KNOW if a women like myself, was not ready for a relationship during her early 20's, and had a few ( A FEW meaning about 4) flings with men, because she loved sex, and did not want to wait until she was in a committed relationship.

 

Presumably however you will tell the truth about this stuff to any man you are serious with, and who cares about it. And he can make his own decision about this stuff. If he decides it makes you undesirable, well, tough cookies I guess. That's part of the deal, isn't it?

 

The reason is, most women who have OCCASIONAL flings, DO NOT ACT ANY DIFFERENTLY OR ANY LESS RESPECTABLE than WOMEN WHO DO NOT have flings... hence u cannot TELL such women who have flings.

 

Sure you can, you ASK them. Now if what you are trying to say is that all women who have multiple flings are also LIARS, and won't tell the truth about their sexual history to a serious partner, why that's something completely different.

 

 

 

There is a BIG difference between a women who sleeps around, and a women who has flings every noe and again.

 

Yes there is. But I thought we were specifically discussing FWBs.

[donnamaybe]

OP is currently MIA.

 

 

 

DM, I don't think the above statements describe your situation.

 

I know this thread has wandered off into the weeds a bit... but THIS is the type of relationship OP was talking about as FBuddies or FWB.

Ah, gotcha. She approached the whole thing as if every woman in an FWB situation is some sort of victim of herself. You're right. That wasn't my situation at all, but it still WAS an FWB situation. Just of my choosing.

 

However, since FWB is being discussed, it really should be viewed from all sides otherwise the discussion is invalid and excludes all the aspects of FWB and what it means for different people.