Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[sally4sara]

LOL sally just stop.

 

Now you're not even trying to be consistent.

 

Those statements are consistent with reality because they are word for word, reasons why I told him to take a hike.

 

You read "take a hike" but you hear "FK OFF and die".

[LiveWell]

First sally this is what you posted about take a hike, don't blame me for misunderstanding that it was supposed to be tongue in cheek, there's nothing in your original post about it that's tongue in cheek:

 

Originally Posted by LiveWell

LOL actually that's pretty cute, you were absolutely smitten with your now husband from that first barbecued rib,

 

It would make for a wonderful flourish to the story of how we got together, but it would be inaccurate. I thought he was too loud, perhaps not trustworthy, and much too young. I'd known of him for about a year but not well. I'd heard a few people speak ill of him in that time.

 

I just wanted to go to the ribfest and wanted company. Over the next few months, I told him to take a hike a number of times for the reasons I listed above. He was too loud (still is sometimes), he wasn't trustworthy (at first) and he is younger than I and I doubted he had the maturity to deal with being in my son's life.

 

 

 

Next:

 

You should have been here last night while we were debating the difference between what is a straight up acting role and what is a pornographic acting role. They don't back down just because I'm female and my mind is set on something.

 

What I do find different about them and some of the men on this site is that they are not so easily threatened by women being their equal or judge them harshly for their sexual nature while finding the same attitudes acceptable for men.

 

On the contrary I would apply the same standard to you that I would apply to a man, so we're in agreement about this.

[LiveWell]

Those statements are consistent with reality because they are word for word, reasons why I told him to take a hike.

 

You read "take a hike" but you hear "FK OFF and die".

 

No, you gave a number of reasons why you told him this in the original post about it, I've quoted them. None were tongue in cheek, nothing about the tone of that post was tongue in cheek.

 

Then just recently you posted several completely different reasons saying it was just tongue in cheek.

 

Also you're trying to attribute an interpretation to me that I did not state. I just said it was disrespectful, I never said anywhere it was the same thing as "fk off and die" at all.

 

I stand by my perceptions, and it's not my fault you keep changing the facts.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Thanks for trying to help Untouchable, but he isn't just struggling with male thought process and it making it hard for him to understand me. He is applying a slanted, suspicious thought process to someone who didn't expect to have to lay out so many years old details just to state:

"My husband and I were FWB when we started out."

As I mentioned earlier, his ex roomate (someone else I had a FWB situation with at one time) is in town staying with us this week. Along with him is also the guy who was their ever present next door neighbor for the entire time my husband lived in my hometown. I let them read this thread. They too agree what my husband and I were in those first 4 months was an accurate definition of FWB.

Are they and my husband not men? Is their thought process not male?

 

Well, my thought on a FWB relationship is that one side has to completely preclude the idea of something long term.

 

Therfore if by being awesome... your husband changed your mind about his LTR worthiness... then you were somewhat open to it.

 

Really it's your relationship and you two can define it however you see fit. I would classify it as this... you two entered into what you thought would be a FWB relationship and found a much deeper level of attraction than anticipated.

 

Now... His xroomie... that is a much more classic FWB situation based on your description.

[stillafool]

There is no way in which what he wrote is justifiable, or that he represents mature, rational argument. There are other people, including Untouchable Fire, who are at least interested in the primary topic, whether or not one agrees with them. This guy is only interested in himself.

 

His utterly disingenuous "oh I see, it all makes sense to me now, because you obviously don't love or respect your husband, why didn't you say so" is nothing more than the verbal equivalent of "I'm not touching youuu." He knows perfectly well that it's crap. We all do.

 

 

I absolutely agree. He also more than implied that Sally was desperate as a single mother and that's the only reason she chose her husband. His posts had a very hateful tone. He wasn't looking for answers he was spewing venom.

[stillafool]

Really it's your relationship and you two can define it however you see fit. I would classify it as this... you two entered into what you thought would be a FWB relationship and found a much deeper level of attraction than anticipated.

 

 

Exactly! Simple as that - They found love.

[theBrokenMuse]

With that said, I don't think there's been any poster in this thread who looks at it as black and white as you describe.

 

I really messed up what I was trying to convey as I did not put enough qualifiers or choose the right words. Chaste was a very poor word choice. It means virginal but it's also a way of describing abstaining from sex which could be considered unlawful (moralistically speaking). I thought of that term as many people today in this Western Society feel it is morally acceptable to have sexual intercourse outside of marriage under the pretense of it being a 'serious' rather than 'casual' relationship to the point where that seems to be the new standard for a "good girl" where waiting for marriage once was. This is going to really cheese me off now until I can think of a better term to use.

[flying]

Well, my thought on a FWB relationship is that one side has to completely preclude the idea of something long term.

 

Therfore if by being awesome... your husband changed your mind about his LTR worthiness... then you were somewhat open to it.

 

Really it's your relationship and you two can define it however you see fit. I would classify it as this... you two entered into what you thought would be a FWB relationship and found a much deeper level of attraction than anticipated.

 

Now... His xroomie... that is a much more classic FWB situation based on your description.

 

This is an interesting point...I'd have said that nothing's really ever written in stone...people change and evolve in terms of relationship expectations over time, especially in their 20s. So while you might enter into a FWB situation with someone and truly not think it will ever be anything more, that doesn't mean that you might not wake up one day and realize that you think differently about the prospects of that person than you did months earlier. I don't really see the two things as mutually exclusive.

 

I'm not sure I think this has to be a gender issue; apparently her now-husband saw it the same way. I think that the way this thread was initially presented - how do men see women - has sort of obscured the more general point about what is a FWB anyway. Those are two different but related questions. And of course a third would be how do women see men who have FWB.

 

But anyway. My personal definition of FWB is someone that at the time you're having sex with you like but don't see as someone that would be a serious relationship. You're honest about the fact that it's sex without strings attached. You may be monogamous, but only because there aren't other prospects at the moment, and have the understanding that when one comes along, you'll move on or give that person priority.

 

I suspect it's rare that a FWB becomes something more, because often people do decide early on if someone has relationship potential, and act accordingly. But I certainly don't think it's impossible that people might change their mind or their preconceptions about someone, given time and maturity.

[sally4sara]

Well, my thought on a FWB relationship is that one side has to completely preclude the idea of something long term.

 

Therfore if by being awesome... your husband changed your mind about his LTR worthiness... then you were somewhat open to it.

 

Really it's your relationship and you two can define it however you see fit. I would classify it as this... you two entered into what you thought would be a FWB relationship and found a much deeper level of attraction than anticipated.

 

Now... His xroomie... that is a much more classic FWB situation based on your description.

 

You get it completely.

 

Where the trouble came from was Livewell's insistence that I either loved him from go and wishing to hide it (for whatever reason ) or am now begrudgingly with him, lacking love and respect, because it is all a poor downtrodden single mother like me could hope for.

 

He is just being tacky and I'm left wondering what he gets out of it.

[LiveWell]

Now... His xroomie... that is a much more classic FWB situation based on your description.

 

Yeah sounds like one big happy family.

 

But one thing I'm curious about is her relationship with the "other guy" that she mentioned, you know, the one year relationship she was in until two weeks before the wedding.

 

The wedding was the day before the barbecue. It's a little confusing, but the way I read it, she was in a serious non-FWB relationship with a third guy until two weeks before the wedding, who obviously must have been intended as her wedding date. They broke up two weeks before the wedding, so she takes the roommate of her husband, who had been her FWB about a year prior to the wedding. I think.

 

I'm curious as to why that serious relationship broke up. Did one of them catch the other cheating or something? Also whether she had sex with the roommate/former FWB after the wedding. Also curious as to where her head was at with her break up coming so soon before the wedding immediately followed by the barbecue.

 

Apparently they're all visiting together RIGHT NOW, IME that kind of thing causes a certain amount of tension, former roommates who have had sex with the same woman can have jealous/competitive feelings with each other, I guess it's kind of cool for the woman, though.

 

Frankly these two guys must have a pretty interesting friendship, wonder if they've ever gone to Paris together.

[sally4sara]

But one thing I'm curious about is her relationship with the "other guy" that she mentioned, you know, the one year relationship she was in until two weeks before the wedding.

 

The wedding was the day before the barbecue. It's a little confusing, but the way I read it, she was in a serious non-FWB relationship with a third guy until two weeks before the wedding, who obviously must have been intended as her wedding date. They broke up two weeks before the wedding, so she takes the roommate of her husband, who had been her FWB about a year prior to the wedding. I think.

 

I'm curious as to why that serious relationship broke up. Did one of them catch the other cheating or something? Also whether she had sex with the roommate/former FWB after the wedding. Also curious as to where her head was at with her break up coming so soon before the wedding immediately followed by the barbecue.

 

Apparently they're all visiting together RIGHT NOW, IME that kind of thing causes a certain amount of tension, former roommates who have had sex with the same woman can have jealous/competitive feelings with each other, I guess it's kind of cool for the woman, though.

 

Frankly these two guys must have a pretty interesting friendship, wonder if they've ever gone to Paris together.

 

More tackiness. As expected.

But then, any of us could take a completely innocuous situation and twist it around to seem suspect IF WE REALLY WANTED TO.

 

So tell us Livewell, why do you want to?

[LiveWell]

I absolutely agree. He also more than implied that Sally was desperate as a single mother and that's the only reason she chose her husband. His posts had a very hateful tone. He wasn't looking for answers he was spewing venom.

 

The problem is what I am supposedly quoted as having said, by the poster to which you are responding to, is not something that I ever said, the quote function would have actually been used.

 

I have absolutely no problem with legitimate criticism but you and some others aren't doing that. You're fabricating statements that I did not make, falsely attributing them to me, and then criticizing me for them.

[LiveWell]

More tackiness. As expected.

But then, any of us could take a completely innocuous situation and twist it around to seem suspect IF WE REALLY WANTED TO.

 

So tell us Livewell, why do you want to?

 

Sally you can feel free to respond to a post or not if you don't want to, but what's not fair is when you keep making gratuitous attacks without responding to what's actually posted.

 

I'm genuinely curious about the background of your relationship and if you don't want to speak to that, fine.

[LiveWell]

You get it completely.

 

Where the trouble came from was Livewell's insistence that I either loved him from go and wishing to hide it (for whatever reason ) or am now begrudgingly with him, lacking love and respect, because it is all a poor downtrodden single mother like me could hope for.

 

What "trouble" are you talking about? You decided to start posting about your own situation in a FWB thread, using your situation as an example, and you've repeatedly changed the facts about what happened, why it happened, and how you felt about it.

 

You didn't have to post anything about yourself at all, but having done so, don't get in a lather because someone questions the inconsistencies in what you've posted.

 

Just one example is you were caught in an out and out fabrication concerning the whole "take a hike" thing, you provided one explanation earlier in the thread, then you completely fabricated a different inconsistent explanation.

 

He is just being tacky and I'm left wondering what he gets out of it.

 

You're entitled to your opinions, obviously. The fact of the matter is you haven't been completely truthful, and when that's been pointed out, you've reacted defensively and made unnecessary ad hominem attacks rather than honestly deal with the fact that your story keeps changing.

[sally4sara]

Sally you can feel free to respond to a post or not if you don't want to, but what's not fair is when you keep making gratuitous attacks without responding to what's actually posted.

 

I'm genuinely curious about the background of your relationship and if you don't want to speak to that, fine.

 

It would require going way off topic and you'd only do the same tacky twisting you've done in every post you make. You've just insulted my husband and my friend and are lucky for the safety of only doing so on the internet and not to my face.

To top that, I don't have enough respect or regard for you to invite you into my life story.

 

Take a hike (your definition of this applies here)

[Untouchable_Fire]

This is an interesting point...I'd have said that nothing's really ever written in stone...people change and evolve in terms of relationship expectations over time, especially in their 20s. So while you might enter into a FWB situation with someone and truly not think it will ever be anything more, that doesn't mean that you might not wake up one day and realize that you think differently about the prospects of that person than you did months earlier. I don't really see the two things as mutually exclusive.

But anyway. My personal definition of FWB is someone that at the time you're having sex with you like but don't see as someone that would be a serious relationship.

 

That is exactly the issue with FWBs. The term is used really loosely. Many people use it to describe situations where they are having sex, but have doubts about the other persons LTR worthiness.

 

Very different situation from one where one person is not open at all to the idea of an eventual LTR.

 

I see this from several guys I know. I feel they tend to be misleading in that they give the girl the impression that if she is "good enough" they will go exclusive and date. However they have no such intentions. I actually had a pretty bad argument with a friend of mine about him doing this recently.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that the majority of the male population does not look favorably on women who enter into these kinds of relationships. And... No it doesn't stem from fear of female sexuality, or sexual jealousy, or the myriad of other stupid ideas I've heard put forth here to explain it.

[LiveWell]

It would require going way off topic and you'd only do the same tacky twisting you've done in every post you make.

 

I haven't twisted anything sally. It's not my fault that you've chosen to present your story in a less than truthful manner.

 

 

You've just insulted my husband and my friend and are lucky for the safety of only doing so on the internet and not to my face.

 

Wow, did you just threaten me? Get a grip. I didn't "insult" your husband or your FWB, where is that coming from???

 

 

 

To top that, I don't have enough respect or regard for you to invite you into my life story.

 

I take your expression of a lack of respect as a compliment.

 

 

Take a hike (your definition of this applies here)

 

LOL it doesn't take much for your true colors to show!

[flying]

That is exactly the issue with FWBs. The term is used really loosely. Many people use it to describe situations where they are having sex, but have doubts about the other persons LTR worthiness.

 

Very different situation from one where one person is not open at all to the idea of an eventual LTR.

 

Yes, I agree...and it's quite clear that on this thread the majority of guys would see women who have FWB differently. Whether that's true outside of LS, I'm not sure - but I suspect it is, in general. Doesn't mean I think that's fair. Nor do I think that's written in stone.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Apparently they're all visiting together RIGHT NOW, IME that kind of thing causes a certain amount of tension, former roommates who have had sex with the same woman can have jealous/competitive feelings with each other, I guess it's kind of cool for the woman, though.

Frankly these two guys must have a pretty interesting friendship, wonder if they've ever gone to Paris together.

 

Are you sincerely trying to understand the situation or just looking for more ammunition with which to mock her?

 

When I met my current GF I was dating 3 others at the same time... not seriously though. I expressed some interest and asked her out, and she actually turned me down, but we continued to talk. After a month or so of regular conversations I dropped all the other women and asked her out again and she said yes.

 

What's my point? My point is that sometimes life is messy, and you just go through the motions all numb to it. Then you meet someone and even though you don't realize it at first... It changes your perspective and suddenly you find your not numb anymore.

 

So... knowing the who, what, where, when, and why's of her situation will not give you the answer you seek.

[flying]

Didn't get in in time to edit my post to ask...I wonder how much of the trouble then is just from using FWB?

 

For example, UF, would you feel the same way if a woman said she'd had a "casual relationship"? Is it all in the wording, like the old "curvy" vs. "a few extra pounds" discussion? Curious.

[EasyHeart]

I really messed up what I was trying to convey as I did not put enough qualifiers or choose the right words. Chaste was a very poor word choice. It means virginal but it's also a way of describing abstaining from sex which could be considered unlawful (moralistically speaking). I thought of that term as many people today in this Western Society feel it is morally acceptable to have sexual intercourse outside of marriage under the pretense of it being a 'serious' rather than 'casual' relationship to the point where that seems to be the new standard for a "good girl" where waiting for marriage once was. This is going to really cheese me off now until I can think of a better term to use.

In my mind, "serious" relationships are those which I think may potentially lead to marriage; "casual" relationships are those which I do not think have any potential for marriage because you are fundamentally incompatible in some way, even though you like each other very much. I have had both kinds of relationship and assume any woman I date has as well.

 

The types of women who I do not consider sufficiently "chaste" for my tastes are women like one I dated a while back who, after we had decided to be exclusive and developed a sexual relationship, continued to have sex with her male "friends". When I found out about it and confronted her, she was shocked that I was upset because she said she was being exclusive with me because she said her relationship with those other men was "just sex -- I wasn't dating them!" Those are the kind of women I would never consider as LT partners. If that make me a sexist or a Neanderthal or applying some kind of double standard, then I am happy to wear those labels.

 

Women like that exist. I do not think they should be put in prison, but I do not want to date them.

[theBrokenMuse]

after we had decided to be exclusive and developed a sexual relationship, continued to have sex with her male "friends". When I found out about it and confronted her, she was shocked that I was upset because she said she was being exclusive with me because she said her relationship with those other men was "just sex -- I wasn't dating them!"

Whoa! That is probably the LAMEST justification for cheating I have ever heard. I mean, if all she had was that, you dodged a bullet my friend. I don't know how someone could say something that stupid with a straight face...

 

Women like that exist. I do not think they should be put in prison, but I do not want to date them.

Unfortunately, cheaters that are like that woman do exist in this crappy reality. I really wish that people who do not really value monogamous relationships would go be with other people that do not want monogamy but far too many seem to try and selfishly justify sneaking around the rules of a relationship in place without their partner's consent.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yes, I agree...and it's quite clear that on this thread the majority of guys would see women who have FWB differently. Whether that's true outside of LS, I'm not sure - but I suspect it is, in general. Doesn't mean I think that's fair. Nor do I think that's written in stone.

 

I don't think it will change much. Here is why.

 

Not all, but most men view sex in terms of domination and power. It's how we are wired. The same is true of nearly all male mammals with high levels of testosterone.

 

That makes it very difficult to have positive feelings towards women who involve themselves is NSA sex. It's also why a high number of sexual partners is unattractive.

 

Most women think that the guy is just insecure if he has an issue with her number of sexual partners, which is the way many women would feel if the situation was reversed. The truth is that many guys will actually see her as less valuable... and often the more secure a man is the stronger he will feel this. Your suddenly just like the French after WW2... the fact that you roll over so easy makes you hard to respect.

[EasyHeart]

Whoa! That is probably the LAMEST justification for cheating I have ever heard. I mean, if all she had was that, you dodged a bullet my friend. I don't know how someone could say something that stupid with a straight face...

 

Unfortunately, cheaters that are like that woman do exist in this crappy reality. I really wish that people who do not really value monogamous relationships would go be with other people that do not want monogamy but far too many seem to try and selfishly justify sneaking around the rules of a relationship in place without their partner's consent.

Well, I certainly agree! But if you think about it, you can see the problem: she honestly did not think she had cheated and was shocked that I thought she had. And she claimed that she and all her friends had "FWBs" and had never encountered anyone who thought it was 'cheating'. And she assumed I had my own FWBs and was surprised that I had not slept with anyone else.

 

I had no problem ending the relationship; that was easy. My point in telling the story was to give and example of why I (and perhaps other men) have a problem with women who have FWBs and think they are less likely to be faithful.

 

And I learned to be very specific about what it means to be "exclusive"!!!

[LiveWell]

Are you sincerely trying to understand the situation or just looking for more ammunition with which to mock her?

 

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by "mockery." The smiley face I used was because of what I perceive as the irony of the situation. If I used the wrong smiley face, and there's a better one to signify irony, I'm not aware of it.

 

 

When I met my current GF I was dating 3 others at the same time... not seriously though.

 

So is your current gf cool with you and she hanging out with previous women that you've had sexual relationships with? Are any of the prior women you've had sex with also still friends with your current gf and do the three of you all hang out together talking about the difference between regular and pornographic films, or other sexually-charged situations? If so, does having two women one of who you're currently in a relationship with, the other you previously were, vying for your attention, seem like something that is healthy for your current relationship?

 

Hypothetically speaking, do you think if any of the above were true, it would be good for the health of your current relationship?

 

 

 

 

I expressed some interest and asked her out, and she actually turned me down, but we continued to talk. After a month or so of regular conversations I dropped all the other women and asked her out again and she said yes.

 

Yes OK fine. You treated all the women involved with respect. I have no problem at all with that.

 

 

What's my point? My point is that sometimes life is messy, and you just go through the motions all numb to it. Then you meet someone and even though you don't realize it at first... It changes your perspective and suddenly you find your not numb anymore.

 

Yes, again that's fine, but I don't notice you speaking of any need to have a FWB relationship while waiting to meet that special someone. Why do you think that is? What makes you different from people who want or need FWB relationships?

 

 

So... knowing the who, what, where, when, and why's of her situation will not give you the answer you seek.

 

Well the "answer" I thought we were seeking is whether FWBs represent a healthy response to the age-old question of how relationships should be structured.

 

I think we are starting to get some pretty useful answers to that question.