Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[on a learning curve]

...not sure if it's so much the fear of disease, I would say it might be more likely from an evolutionary biology perspective, that promiscuous women are viewed as more likely to cuckold their long term partners. From an evolutionary biology standpoint, the long term partner would want to avoid a woman more likely to cuckold him, as it would be a waste of his DNA and resources to be raising another man's child.

 

It's just that simple, actually.

 

How is it a waste from an evolutionary perspective? Not feeling that. If survivial of the species is the drive...who cares?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Yes, "drive down the value of women" is a truly objectifying position to take.

You don't know this woman's feelings. Just because your insecure buddies felt the need to disparage her (probably cuz there was no pleasing her), you think you have the authority to determine her understanding of her choices?

That is arrogance at best. Nothing more.

 

Really? Most people both male and female evaluatepotential mates on some type of value system. Otherwise you have no standards.

 

It's very common to have a list of things you desire in a man... and each man gets valued based on that list along with non list traits.

 

Is that objectifying? Because that is the process I'm describing.

 

Well geesh, I asked the same of you!

 

I already understand where your coming from.

[sally4sara]

I think it is intelligent of anyone to scrutinize the actions of a romantic interest; it can indicate many things. However, it is the application of generalizations that causes people to fall short of an accurate assessment. Not everyone is predictable with the "in general" train of thought.

 

To some, a person who does A (in this case, engages in a FWB situation) is going to be prone to B (not be trustworthy/ a good mate).

 

All knowing a person had casual sex really indicates for sure is that they had sex.

 

For instance, we have the double standard. Men being validated through attaining sex while women either are not or devalued. I get why men feel validated through the attaining of sex; it doesn't come to them as easily.

 

But did he lie to get the sex?

Does he view the women he had sex with as soiled after the fact or merely someone he had a pleasurable moment(s) with?

Has he ever been capable of attaining not just sex from a woman, but also a connection -a regard and intimacy beyond sex?

Is he able to identify with women when it comes to desire for sex or does he labor under the delusion of women not really having those urges (to be a "good woman")?

 

A man could have any number of partners (many or very few) and be of any age, but if he lied, saw women as lesser for the sex he had with them, only interested in getting laid while purposely not allowing for regard and intimacy, and can't fathom the concept of a woman desiring sex?

 

He is as bad as anyone can get without committing a crime IMO. I would never see him as validated through the attainment of sex and I wouldn't trust him to water a plant let alone to have a relationship with me.

[on a learning curve]

If you don't want a commited relationship why do you even care if a man won't consider you a prime candidate for one? I have no desire to be an astronaut so I don't care about passing the test so why do you care about men's criteria for a commited partner when you yourself have said you don't want it anyway? It is actually kind of silly.

 

I don't "care" either way. My curiosity remains, silly or not. Such is life, and I enjoy discussion.

[on a learning curve]

Really? Most people both male and female evaluatepotential mates on some type of value system. Otherwise you have no standards.

 

It's very common to have a list of things you desire in a man... and each man gets valued based on that list along with non list traits.

 

Is that objectifying? Because that is the process I'm describing.

 

 

 

I already understand where your coming from.

 

Yes. And I wouldn't find it endearing that a man I loved thought so little of women.

 

My point has always been: Women have intense sexual desires - only the most intuitive of men get the benefit.

[Woggle]

Women judge men based on certain criteria as well so why should men not have standards?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Well, thank goodness that a large portion of society are not slaves to their inherent biological urges!

Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to attribute any behavior to "evolutionary biology" at all? Urges, desires, sure ... but actual choices and behavior?

I am not just being argumentative. As I said, people like what they like and I accept that. There is a whole other world out here where men DO fall in love with and marry women with all kinds of pasts ... there are even people right here on LS who are in OPEN MARRIAGES and in polyamorous relationships. They are all over the place! The disease, the wrongness!

So, just because YOU think that "a promiscuous woman is diseased or not quite right" and you can find plenty of other guys who are in that camp, I assure you that your position is not universally believed to be the norm.

 

Yes we do exert control over our behavior, and social conditioning can trump instinct, but in the vast majority of instances people don't understand that their behavior is driven by instinct.

 

Yes it's also true that many men overlook whatever past a woman may have, and this happens for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes the woman is so full of positives that her past just isn't that big of a negative. Sometimes the man has a past worse than the woman. Sometimes the man doesn't find out until after he has fallen in love. These instances are not precluded in my previous statements.

 

However... because our baseline instincts and behaviors are driven by biological factors it's safe to assume promiscuous behavior is driven by mental issues. You'd have to follow that up by individual verification... but in most instances your generalization would bear true.

 

Yes. And I wouldn't find it endearing that a man I loved thought so little of women.

My point has always been: Women have intense sexual desires - only the most intuitive of men get the benefit.

 

Thank God women have intense sexual desires! I am also quite happy to report many of them are selective in who they share those desires with.

[sally4sara]

Women judge men based on certain criteria as well so why should men not have standards?

 

Even though I might not like the mindset behind someone's standards, I can still be benefited by knowing how they think, how utterly incompatible we are due the standards they have and the mindset used in setting them. It helps me to not wasting my time around them.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Women judge men based on certain criteria as well so why should men not have standards?

 

I think the idea is that promiscuity is a flawed criteria. Which in all fairness I used to believe myself.

 

However I can now tell you from experience that there is a huge difference between women who like sex... and women who have sex with lots of different guys. The former making awesome mates and the latter being a disaster in waiting.

 

I think this distinction needs to be made.

[Woggle]

I think the idea is that promiscuity is a flawed criteria. Which in all fairness I used to believe myself.

 

However I can now tell you from experience that there is a huge difference between women who like sex... and women who have sex with lots of different guys. The former making awesome mates and the latter being a disaster in waiting.

 

I think this distinction needs to be made.

 

Exactly. There is a difference between women who have had sex and enjoy sex and women who view sex as a weapon in the gender wars which is what many of these so called empowered women do.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

What about the story did you find disgusting? The fact that men speak freely with each other regarding sexual encounters? The terms used?

 

I didn't say the story was disgusting. I said the locker room behavior of the boys was disgusting. JSYK, I do not know ANY adult men or women who would not think that talking like that guy did about a girl he had sex with was disgusting behavior. Yes, some of them might have done something like that in their past, but they certainly are not raising their sons to speak like that about women/girls who are "good enough" for them to have sex with. You have not evolved to that point yet, I guess.

 

I can always count on the bitter old maid brigade to ignore the point and drive the post way off topic.

 

Haha! You're a funny little guy! I feel sorry for you; you exude fear. I hope you can surround yourself with enough insecure women (without resorting to abuse) and ancient mythology about our fine gender to keep a grasp upon whatever threads of manhood you have. Good luck.

[Woggle]

Women are just as raunchy when they talk about men.

[Mme. Chaucer]

So it's your contention that evolutionary biology does not affect behavior?

 

I'll try to remember that the very next time I have sex.

 

You'll probably not be able to remember, since the likelihood of that happening within the next couple of decades is quite slim. Try to hold the thought, though. It's good mental exercise for the middle aged brain.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Women are just as raunchy when they talk about men.

 

Dear Woggle, I know many of them do. I'm pretty sure you don't think it's a cool thing to do either way. I don't.

[Woggle]

Dear Woggle, I know many of them do. I'm pretty sure you don't think it's a cool thing to do either way. I don't.

 

I don't care either way but if a called women digusting for doing the same thing he would be called an insecure misogynist who can't take what men have dished out for years or something like that. Let's be honest about this.

[Mme. Chaucer]

"I cracked her open like a shotgun and f***ed her till her nose bled".

 

Woggle, this language is beyond raunchy. It is ugly and violent. It would be difficult for women to use similar language to describe "normal" sex with a man; it would work if she were talking about some B & D involving a strap-on or something.

[TheBigQuestion]

Woggle, this language is beyond raunchy. It is ugly and violent. It would be difficult for women to use similar language to describe "normal" sex with a man; it would work if she were talking about some B & D involving a strap-on or something.

 

Maybe her nose DID start bleeding.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I didn't say the story was disgusting. I said the locker room behavior of the boys was disgusting. JSYK, I do not know ANY adult men or women who would not think that talking like that guy did about a girl he had sex with was disgusting behavior. Yes, some of them might have done something like that in their past, but they certainly are not raising their sons to speak like that about women/girls who are "good enough" for them to have sex with. You have not evolved to that point yet, I guess.

 

Actually... the point is that describing sex in that manner is a somewhat common male viewpoint. It's crude and it's ugly... but it exists and it's not rare at all.

 

I am recounting this particular incident because it should drive that point home fairly well. It's a very visceral statement.

 

So... Yeah a good chunk of the guys you sleep with take this view of you to some degree. The ones who are more moderate are still acutely aware of it.

 

Promiscuous women attract men stronger on the objectification/dominance scale like bees to honey. Do you think it's a good thing for such a woman to allow men to objectify her?

 

Haha! You're a funny little guy! I feel sorry for you; you exude fear. I hope you can surround yourself with enough insecure women (without resorting to abuse) and ancient mythology about our fine gender to keep a grasp upon whatever threads of manhood you have. Good luck.

 

That wasn't fear... it was frustration, and I apologize.

 

Woggle, this language is beyond raunchy. It is ugly and violent. It would be difficult for women to use similar language to describe "normal" sex with a man; it would work if she were talking about some B & D involving a strap-on or something.

 

What do you think sex without love is?

 

To a great many it is ugly and violent, a territorial ego boost. What emotions do you think drives a player, or a guy who just wants an FWB? There is ALWAYS an emotional component to sex... always.

 

I get that you don't feel its fair for women to be judged for their actions, but the fact is that they are, and I think it important to understand why.

 

The whole approach I see from women on this forum in topics like this is just backwards. Don't say an action or a feeling is just wrong when there isn't even the slightest inkling of why it exists. Once it's understood... then it can be viewed and dealt with in the correct way.

[donnamaybe]

Most of the women's responses in this thread can basically be reduced to "You're a man and you think that you can judge women and make some generalizations about them based on their sexual history. Therefore, you are sexist, hateful, bitter, a 'little man,' even though I've judged men on the same criteria in the past."

This is absolutely NOT true, and I challenge you to find any such posts which support it.

 

What I and the other women I've been reading have been saying is, as long as there is HONESTY upfront and both parties know exactly what the relationship is about and what it is NOT about, then fine. The problem women have with SOME men is they are NOT honest about their intentions. They lie to get into women's pants.

[donnamaybe]

No, the woman's character is not the only one that should be scrutinized. However, this is a thread about WOMEN who are in FWBs. This happens in every thread where someone asks about some potentially questionable behavior on the part of a woman. Every woman chimes in with "hey guys do it too!!!" If we're discussing women, that interjection is meaningless, and is also needlessly combative.

Not, it's not, because if "men" are going to come into this thread and denigrate a woman's character because of choosing an FWB situation at some point in their life, then we have a right to know if they are coming from a standpoint of how they view ALL people in that situation, or if they are applying the same old double standard I've seen you and some of these others apply in every single gender based discussion on this board.

[donnamaybe]

You can explain yourself without being completely insulting to someone.

That's not true either.

[donnamaybe]

Stay on point please.

Um, you asked the question. Why ask a question if you don't expect it to be answered?

[donnamaybe]

Why is a woman with sexual experience bad thing? And why does the fact that she may have a few outside-relationship encounters make her wrong or likely to cheat? I just don't understand. I love women who like sex. And besides, won't they know how to lay it on you (quite well) from all the 'practice'?

 

I'm really trying to find a downside here, and I'm coming up a tad short.

 

I believe perfectly rational, emotionally stable women are capable of having casual sex, and being amazingly loyal when they're in relationships. I don't see them as being defective or inferior in the slightest.

But you see, Mr. Nate, you are obviously an emotionally healthy man who doesn't base his worth on whether or not his GF's have had sex with anyone else in their past. It could have something to do with worrying about comparison.

[donnamaybe]

I believe perfectly rational, emotionally stable women are capable of having casual sex, and being amazingly loyal when they're in relationships.

 

 

At the same time?

Why would it be at the same time? That's NOT what this thread is about, and that is NOT what anyone who has participated in an FWB situation has stated in this thread.

 

I'll use your own advice here: Stay on point.

[donnamaybe]

In theory, you are absolutely right, but once we guys factor our own experiences and insecurities into the mix, some wildly different points of view can result.

Ahhh, some HONESTY. At last! Thanks, GOP!