Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[lamaman3]

Men have more barriers to navigate, or in other words, women are more selective. Correct. Men on the other hand, they want it more hence the barriers they present are less. The 'wanting it more', especially, the sex on the brain’ concept that men are known for (and women not nearly as much), the ease in which men identify any given situation in a sexual sense, relative to women, thanks in no small part to testosterone – the all round attitude that men have towards sex and that most folk, most women have an inherent understanding of (which is usually formed in ones formative years onwards)….all this is why men are more sexual than women and are seen to be so. It’s all baseless to you apparently, but common knowledge to most folk.

 

What women need, more than men evidently – is more of a reason to unleash their sexual urges than men. That speaks for itself.

.

 

This is false. Women "having more barriers" does not even follow logically from "Women being more selective" - Women are more selective in WHO they will sleep with. But there is a subset of extremely attractive and confident men who they will sleep with and be EXTREMELY sexual with - as much if not more sexual than the man. Again - she will not be turned on to the majority of men - so to these men she will raise barriers because she has to get something in exchange for sex. But for extremely attractive confident alpha men - there may not be any barriers. More selective translates into a smaller segment of the population that can turn her on - it dosent mean increased barriers all the time.

[Woggle]

You should hear how most players talk about women and yet women love them. The myth that misogynists have problems getting women is pure bs. Between marriages is when I was my most negative towards women and I had no problem whatsoever getting a date.

[lamaman3]

 

Indeed you’re right. Most men understand these dynamics and in light of this example a lot of male suspicion is clearly justified. Poor sods, not only do some have to put up with something akin to all this, they have to suffer the ignominy of being thought of as being insecure, jealous or fearful to boot. Then on top of all of this, women have an inherent understanding of all this, meaning given the opportunity, they’ll more than justify the fears and insecurities of men. Quite interesting. I'm sure, or hoping that my take on this situation is greatly askew.

.

 

The point is that this fear no longer plays a useful role. In this day and age there is something called paternity tests - so you can always be sure who is and isnt your child. Yet this irrational fear still leads to destructive behavior such as jealousy.

[sally4sara]

Sally4Sara marry him in the end?

 

Yup; after being together for 5 years. 5 years of getting to know each other and finding what we had was true compatibility.

 

Poor thing.

 

Poor thing has never been so happy in her entire life. You're going to be hard pressed to convince me I was wrong in my choices simply because we started out as FWB. Heading towards our 7th year and it just keeps getting better.

 

How are things going for you?

[A O]

This is false. Women "having more barriers" does not even follow logically from "Women being more selective" - Women are more selective in WHO they will sleep with.

Its one in the same. To be selective is to have standards, to be more discriminatory, to create barriers to entry.

 

But there is a subset of extremely attractive and confident men who they will sleep with and be EXTREMELY sexual with - as much if not more sexual than the man.

Attractiveness lowers the barrier of entry but does not guarantee quality sex by any means. Quality genes, maybe – quality sex – possibly.

 

Again - she will not be turned on to the majority of men - so to these men she will raise barriers because she has to get something in exchange for sex

Meaning, most men are still in with a chance but they have to prove themselves a lot more than the high-value types do. Now we’re at the dating stage where the barriers to carnal delight are a lot harder to break through and navigate than anything most men will put up.

 

The point is that this fear no longer plays a useful role. In this day and age there is something called paternity tests - so you can always be sure who is and isnt your child. Yet this irrational fear still leads to destructive behavior such as jealousy.

Fear, common emotion found in both sexes, in this case, men fearing fathering another mans child or women either not bearing the best they think they can attract or anything at all. Jealousy, fear, being judgmental…behavior commonly exerted by both sexes in this sexual setting we’re discussing here.

 

If you read the book Sperm Wars you would understand that evolutionary biology has compelled women to be programmed to have men COMPETE for her - many times by sleeping with multiple men at the same time.

Now, back to this earlier example of yours….given the irrationality of male fear (according to you), given that I think you’ve said that there’s little, maybe no correlation between a womens sexual appetite and the likelihood of cheating (forgive me if it’s not you who’s suggested such a thing), then how true is this little snippet you’ve quoted, especially in this day and age, and what was the context for mentioning it all in the first place?

 

 

.

[stillafool]

You should hear how most players talk about women and yet women love them. The myth that misogynists have problems getting women is pure bs. Between marriages is when I was my most negative towards women and I had no problem whatsoever getting a date.

 

 

Woggle you should also hear how women talk about men and their sexual performance. It's downright shameful what some of them say about the men they bed.

[Yamaha]

Nothing will turn a woman off faster than letting her know you are judging her sexually and she is engaging in sexual behavior that "she shouldnt be proud of

 

So what? Some don't care if a women is "turned off" if they don't want to date or learn who she is. We can judge people and decide NOT to have anything to do with them no matter how hot or sexy they may be (I'm sure a foreign concept to the PUA community).

 

As Carhill says, "You go your path" but don't tell me mine is wrong b/c I'm not trying to bag as many women as possible.

[Woggle]

Woggle you should also hear how women talk about men and their sexual performance. It's downright shameful what some of them say about the men they bed.

 

I know women are just as raunchy as men and I addressed that issue earlier in this thread.

[D-Lish]

People are so much deeper and more complicated than their sexual choices.

 

After my marriage broke down and I found myself single at the age of 33- I entered into this crazy dating pool that I'd never imagined I'd be facing. When I met my husband, I'd had a few relationships- but I was sexually inexperienced.

 

During the divorce, and after- I did some crazy things that the married D-Lish never would have even thought of doing. I have had relationships with men that were purely sexual- I have had FWB relationships. I did have an on again off again FWB relationship that I fully participated in despite loving the person and knowing he was never going to feel the same way. I did some pretty stupid, dangerous, uncharacteristic things during a tumultuous time.

 

Am I unworthy of a relationship now because I went through a period where I acted out? Can my entire worth as a human being be boiled down to a few years of debauchery after my marriage went awry? Not according to what I know about myself- but people are free to disagree and judge if they want to.

 

I'm not the same person I was 3 years ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. I have never cheated in a relationship, that's never been me.

 

If I met someone and he judged me for my actions during a hard time in my life when I was feeling lost- I'd have to say good-bye and good riddance to him. Those that are prone to judgement are usually people that have way more to hide than I do.

[on a learning curve]

^ ^ ^ ^

 

The 'browbeating nonsense' as you call it is all unfamiliar to me. I understand that women use their god-given gifts to attract men, but why is it nonsense, or if this isn't the nonsense you're referring to, then what else is it? As for browbeating, what do you mean exactly, where does it come from or who leads it?

 

As for where does all this insecurity come from...what I am trying to get to here, is that insecurity like every other issue here is a byproduct of "difference", which is one of the key themes I've been debating here with you.

 

There you go....same questions, yes they really are questions, with a bit more reasoning attached. Oh, and I'll bear in made how you see types of questioning for the future, chances are, some of yours may not be what they appear to be given what you're suggesting her about mine.

 

 

.

 

Well first of all, I object to the notion that it is mere "god-given" gifts that attract men. Do you have any idea how much work is involved in being a woman? (I say this tongue-in-cheek, but there's truth in it )

 

The nonsense that I refer to is of course, the same point that I've been belabouring here with you - the prevailing notion that men want, and desire sex more than women. A point that you refuse to acknowledge as possible truth. And, if this is the "difference" you are referring to when you speak of insecurity as a "byproduct", then I'm not sure what you mean.

 

I will pose the question to you again, if women's sexuality is nothing to be feared (meaning the thought of it fuels men's insecurities), why all the restrictions on women's sexuality?

[dispatch3d]

This is a "low grade" thread lol . Ugh the wording urks me of the title.

[lamaman3]

Just like you in your recent incarnation as LiveWell. Why do you come here with a different username every few days?

What a hypocrite this guy is. He sirens multiple posts telling us how destructive fwb relationships are, how they damage a woman's self esteem and how sex should be in the context of a traditional relationship - and he just told a poster in the other thread that a girl was "for having fun with, not marrying"

[on a learning curve]

Nah, that's just what "good girls" do to reconcile the "bad girl" in themselves.

 

If they haven't been sufficiently shamed, they expect it - so level a pile of it on themselves.

[A O]

The nonsense that I refer to is of course, the same point that I've been belabouring here with you - the prevailing notion that men want, and desire sex more than women. A point that you refuse to acknowledge as possible truth.

So, the nonsense is men desiring sex more than women. You believe that women want and desire sex as much (perhaps more) as men. Well I tell you what – I don’t agree with you, I’ll leave it at that.

 

And, if this is the "difference" you are referring to when you speak of insecurity as a "byproduct", then I'm not sure what you mean.

Everything here is a by-product of the sexes being different. We would have little to discuss if our sexual natures were the same.

 

I will pose the question to you again, if women's sexuality is nothing to be feared (meaning the thought of it fuels men's insecurities), why all the restrictions on women's sexuality?

What restrictions….the only restrictions there are, are the one’s you place on yourself. It is your insecurity that pandas to these restrictions, these outside influence every bit as much as those who need to place restrictions, or negatively judge others.

 

 

,

[on a learning curve]

So, the nonsense is men desiring sex more than women. You believe that women want and desire sex as much (perhaps more) as men. Well I tell you what – I don’t agree with you, I’ll leave it at that.

 

Everything here is a by-product of the sexes being different. We would have little to discuss if our sexual natures were the same.

 

What restrictions….the only restrictions there are, are the one’s you place on yourself. It is your insecurity that pandas to these restrictions, these outside influence every bit as much as those who need to place restrictions, or negatively judge others.

 

 

,

 

If you don't agree with me, can you at least rationalize why not?

 

What restrictions? This cannot be a serious statement, A O.

[abouttoloseit]

Yo yo wassup rockers!

 

Just need to clear a few things! First point:

 

By no means am I a "player"!! I just had a few crazy ex girlfriends. Which leads me onto my next point about "judging".

 

I judged them on how they acted towards ME whilst in the relationship. Not regards their sexual past. Although, I will be honest, it didn't help. Im just pointing out, it seems to be linked. Crazy past = crazy girlfriend. I come to this conclusion from MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

 

I've never had a ONS. I don't give it up so easy, I've had a few opportunies to say the least though .

 

Sally4Sara, if you're happy, that's all that counts and I hope it stays that way. But I agree with Livewell on how your relationship was built.

[D-Lish]

I've bolded your judgments about your behavior.

 

 

 

 

So it's OK for you to be critical of yourself for what you did, yet you'd automatically reject as a partner, any man who agreed with your judgment?

 

What exactly is a potential partner supposed to say? Do you want someone who's going to be dishonest with you and say "No no no you did nothing wrong, everything's fine?" Even you don't think that, why should you expect a compatible partner to feel differently about it?

 

 

 

 

No you just don't want to be accountable for what you did in the past, even though you yourself judge your actions harshly.

 

The only kind of partner who will be "non judgmental" is someone who is either lacking in judgment entirely, or simply doesn't care enough about you to expect you to live up to any particular standards of behavior.

 

The "total package" you provide might be such that the weak points including some of your past behavior aren't really that significant. However, they were significant enough for you to mention here. You shouldn't expect a rational partner is going to give you a total pass on this kind of stuff. It would be the same with any other questionable past behavior, not just sexual stuff.

 

Next time you get married, you want to be looking for someone who is VERY judgmental, but who exercise that judgment WISELY.

 

You are seriously misguided. I am not ashamed of my behaviour- it was a part of my life experience.

 

Freely judge me for putting it out there, that's your perogative.

 

How am I not accountable for my actions given my revealing post! I laid it out there.

 

So what, I slept with some guys after my exH cheated and slept with some girl and knocked her up while we were married. Go ahead and judge my actions in response to that.

 

Sorry dude, a brief lapse in judgement after living a really moral life doesn't define who I am.

[A O]

If you don't agree with me, can you at least rationalize why not?

In regards to us...most of your views have been responses/counters to mine so the rationale is already there.

 

What restrictions? This cannot be a serious statement, A O.

Not every person is interested in imposing their will on others. So, enlighten me or jolt my memory maybe.

 

.

[on a learning curve]

In regards to us...most of your views have been responses/counters to mine so the rationale is already there.

 

Not every person is interested in imposing their will on others. So, enlighten me or jolt my memory maybe.

 

.

 

I have just spent several minutes re-reading this thread, and I cannot find a post of yours that provides a rationale for your conclusion. I may have missed it, of course, but if you would indulge me, I'd appreciate it.

 

It is likely going beyond the scope of this thread to have a discussion of history, and the cultural practices which explicitly serve as means to restrict women's sexuality. And, you still haven't responded to my question - and I am curious as to your avoidance, there.

[Surrealist]

So what, I slept with some guys after my exH cheated and slept with some girl and knocked her up while we were married. Go ahead and judge my actions in response to that.

 

 

Hmmm two wrongs don't make anything right though. You could potentially carry this reaction toward the cheating husband into future relationships, even where no further cheating occurs on the part of the other partner, having you harbor that in you shows you have potential to do it again, possibly for other reasons apart from infidelity. As for justifying your actions due to your cheating husband I cannot agree. Yes I have been there and can back my word 'judgments' with actions.

[on a learning curve]

It is dismissive at best to rely soley on your personal experiences to discuss a phenomenon (which is what FWB relationships are, yes?)

 

Because you (general you) label a woman "crazy", doesn't make it so. Truth, or at least understanding, is accomplished by distancing oneself emotionally from the subject a bit.

[stillafool]

I will pose the question to you again, if women's sexuality is nothing to be feared (meaning the thought of it fuels men's insecurities), why all the restrictions on women's sexuality?

 

This is what I don't understand as well. You would think men would cheer at the thought of women wanting sex as much as them. I guess posters like MrNate are the only men who appreciate it. You can look at the Infidelity forum right now and read about wives who want more sex than their husbands.

[Surrealist]

This is what I don't understand as well. You would think men would cheer at the thought of women wanting sex as much as them. I guess posters like MrNate are the only men who appreciate it. You can look at the Infidelity forum right now and read about wives who want more sex than their husbands.

 

Lol man, you can read the infidelity forum right now and note the numbers of ruined relationships, the numbers of children growing up in families with either the mother or father no longer a part of the household and constant part of the children's lives and nurturing, and cite many examples of the destruction caused by casual sexual behvaiors.

[A O]

I have just spent several minutes re-reading this thread, and I cannot find a post of yours that provides a rationale for your conclusion. I may have missed it, of course, but if you would indulge me, I'd appreciate it.

Which conclusion are you talking about? The one where I disagree with your view that suggests that women want and desire sex as much, if not more, than men. Do you wish me to expand on my conclusion of your view. Your view being little more than a counter to mine, that so far, has had the clitoris as the chef rationale behind it, while at the same time, my views, with rationale(s) in tow, have been questioned and re-explained for your benefit on more than one occasion already.

 

Seriously - you want me to explain myself yet again!

 

It is likely going beyond the scope of this thread to have a discussion of history, and the cultural practices which explicitly serve as means to restrict women's sexuality. And, you still haven't responded to my question - and I am curious as to your avoidance, there.

If its relevant to modern day relationship life - go ahead.

 

 

.

[sanskrit]

On a learning curve's style of discussion seems deliberately obfuscatory.

 

Agreed. Par for the course given the ideology and it's lack of underlying facts. Will give her credit, though, as she hasn't yet resorted to the favorite latter lines of feminist defense here on LS:

 

"You are just bitter."

"You just don't like women."

"You must have trouble getting laid"

 

repeated ad nauseum here.