Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[donnamaybe]

So you're saying you never actually fell in love with your husband?

 

Wow.

It's hard to read for content when you're wearing blinders.

[donnamaybe]

I'm still waiting for anyone in this thread to post even a single example of a 1) completely casual sexual relationship, with periodic sexual encounters over a finite period of time (but excluding say ONS, weekend flings, or something that happens when one is away for a one week vacation, as there is no element of "repetition" in those sorts of encounters); 2) with absolutely zero romantic expectations or investment by either party, IOW, sex + purely platonic frienship + "nothing else"; 3) being in the relationship did not lead to a romantic/emotional entanglement of some kind, which would simply indicate a casual sexual relationship that developed and grew, not an FWB; 4) ended well.

 

IMO an what makes an FWB an FWB is not simply friendship + sex, but the agreement by both parties to explicitly exclude the possibility that it could develop into something more, i.e. a "real relationship." If there's no exclusion of that possibility, then it's simply two people who are "casually dating" each other, which is NOT an FWB.

I gave a perfectly valid example of the above. We both decided it would NOT evolve into a "romantic" relationship. We were friends. We agreed to NSA sex.

 

Unfortunately, he made claims he didn't back, and he wound up getting hurt.

[donnamaybe]

Flying, you are very adept at making ad hominem attacks.

 

I've already invited you or anyone else to find where previously in the thread sally even talked about "love" being a part of her relationship, and if so, I'd apologize.

 

You didn't, because she didn't. She NOW in response to that post evidently, has talked about "love" being a part of her relationship, which is fine. But she didn't previously.

 

In any event, why don't you actually provide a quotation of something I've said in this thread that you feel is unjustified, explain why, and explain why my opinion is not factually accurate or at least plausibly within the range of possible opinions based on the facts presented in this thread at the time I posted it?

But, you see, in many OTHER threads she has made it very clear that she is MADLY in love with her husband. That's your problem. You make all these grand (or not so much) assumptions based on nothing. If you don't know, ask instead of jumping to the conclusion which will provide you the opportunity to insult someone. You'll be taken much more seriously that way.

[donnamaybe]

Are you sincerely trying to understand the situation or just looking for more ammunition with which to mock her?

THANK you UT! We needed more men to tell this guy what his behavior looks like as he is obviuosly considering the women's disgust regarding his posts as something invalid.

[Untouchable_Fire]

THANK you UF! We needed more men to tell this guy what his behavior looks like as he is obviuosly considering the women's disgust regarding his posts as something invalid.

 

At first I was Ok with what he was saying... but when I came back it was just off the wall.

 

Kind of like showing up for the Democratic National Convention... taking your seat... then noticing the guy next to you is dressed as a Klansmen. Same kind of WTF moment.

[donnamaybe]

sanskrit isn't saying that all women who are promiscuous also suffer some degree of mental illness. He's saying that promiscuity is very often a by-product of mental illness. Don't confuse the two and don't assume he's talking about causation.

But we are talking about an FWB situation wherein the woman has control over the situation and, in fact, prefers to NOT sleep with various and sundry men. It's just for sexual satisfaction, and PLEASE don't tell me women aren't supposed to enjoy sex.

 

A woman who desperately sleeps around with numerous men for validation probably has mental health problems. I agree with that.

 

The two are completely different types of people, however.

[donnamaybe]

I don't think that having sex with other men while dating and attempting to build a relationship with a man I am not sleeping with sounds like a normal or healthy thing to do.

 

I had always thought that FWB relationships occurred when the parties weren't really looking for more complicated or involved relationships. I don't think it is reasonable to attempt to build a relationship with one man while screwing another.

 

But that's just me and I tend to be a bit nieve when it comes to dating.

I agree. The reason I entered into an FWB was because I was NOT interested in a relationship for a period of time. As soon as my guy entered my life 5 1/2 years ago, he changed my mind about R's.

[donnamaybe]

I think it is intelligent of anyone to scrutinize the actions of a romantic interest; it can indicate many things. However, it is the application of generalizations that causes people to fall short of an accurate assessment. Not everyone is predictable with the "in general" train of thought.

 

To some, a person who does A (in this case, engages in a FWB situation) is going to be prone to B (not be trustworthy/ a good mate).

 

All knowing a person had casual sex really indicates for sure is that they had sex.

 

For instance, we have the double standard. Men being validated through attaining sex while women either are not or devalued. I get why men feel validated through the attaining of sex; it doesn't come to them as easily.

 

But did he lie to get the sex?

Does he view the women he had sex with as soiled after the fact or merely someone he had a pleasurable moment(s) with?

Has he ever been capable of attaining not just sex from a woman, but also a connection -a regard and intimacy beyond sex?

Is he able to identify with women when it comes to desire for sex or does he labor under the delusion of women not really having those urges (to be a "good woman")?

 

A man could have any number of partners (many or very few) and be of any age, but if he lied, saw women as lesser for the sex he had with them, only interested in getting laid while purposely not allowing for regard and intimacy, and can't fathom the concept of a woman desiring sex?

 

He is as bad as anyone can get without committing a crime IMO. I would never see him as validated through the attainment of sex and I wouldn't trust him to water a plant let alone to have a relationship with me.

Right on the money as usual, s4s!

[donnamaybe]

So it's your contention that evolutionary biology does not affect behavior?

 

I'll try to remember that the very next time I have sex.

 

You'll probably not be able to remember, since the likelihood of that happening within the next couple of decades is quite slim. Try to hold the thought, though. It's good mental exercise for the middle aged brain.

We haven't been privy to any information about his relationships, have we? With all this supposition going on from him, it would be nice to know if there is any sort of basis for this thought process.

[TheBigQuestion]

But we are talking about an FWB situation wherein the woman has control over the situation and, in fact, prefers to NOT sleep with various and sundry men. It's just for sexual satisfaction, and PLEASE don't tell me women aren't supposed to enjoy sex.

 

A woman who desperately sleeps around with numerous men for validation probably has mental health problems. I agree with that.

 

The two are completely different types of people, however.

 

(This is meant as a response to all of the times you quoted me in the past two pages).

 

I think you're too quick to lump me in with a lot of other posters on this board. I have no doubt in my mind that women are supposed to enjoy sex. And I also agree that the two types of women you described above are different. I don't have any reason to believe that women who are into FWBs are damaged people, so I made no such generalizations. I apologize if you think I supported that proposition. When I posted that, I was answering a question from someone else that went off on a tangent. That's been a big problem in this thread and I hope you don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Did you read everything I posted and then only quoted the parts with which you disagreed? I mean, that's fine, but at least give me some credit for the posts where I pointed out that a lot of men in this thread are being out of line, asinine, insecure, immature, etc.

 

With that said, I understand that my tendency to shoot myself in the foot gets very pronounced if I'm trying to play both sides or find some sort of middle way in a debate. I'm not surprised that a lot of what I say gets lost.

 

So, for the record, I have no problem with women or men who choose to pursue FWBs in and of themselves. The conditions by which they arise are another story. I don't think women should be devalued for entering into such relationships, and I've never done that myself. I've been in FWB/casual/whatever you want to call it-type relationships before and my reasons for doing so usually had to do with me not being particularly interested in pursuing a committed relationship with the girl but not disliking her company either. Like I said before, they became FWBs because I didn't think they were relationship material. They did not become lesser people in my eyes because they became my FWB. Anyone who believes that is pretty immature and stupid.

[harmfulsweetz]

What really dissapoints me, is how narrow some of these posters minds are. Why do respectable women have to want long term relationships? Why is a long term, seroious relationship the only " respectable" aspiration for women?

 

I like and respect myself as a person. I have a good life plan ahead of me, career wise, and also on a personal level. I am a good person, who has goals and standards as to how I treat people, and how I allow myself to be treated.

 

I DO want a " respectable" life for myself. I want to get a good job, give to charity, help the community, and also be a ambitious, fun, humerous, and interesting human being.

 

However, I do not see how wanting a long term, monogomous, SERIOUS relationship, is a critiera for a women to be considered " respectable", either as a partner, or as a person in general.

 

I dress well, I am, well spoken, I am affable, and I also would not cheat on a long term partner of mine. However, I do not want or aspire to having a long term SEIROUS relationship, with the same person, for many years ( or for LIFE). I am not ruling out ever craving a long term parrtner, but for the time being, I am looking for a more casual type of sexual relationship, and THIS DOES not make me any lesser of a person then ANY OF YOU.

 

I cannot believe how judgmental people are being, not to mention the assumptions that are being made, about women like MYSELF, who believe that mutual masturbation with a person that likes you and respects youa s a person, IS WRONG?

 

Here is the thing; IT MAY BE WRONG FOR YOU. But there are respectable people, who would make GREAT wives or partners, whome have RESPECTABLE Loves, and WHO DO NOT " sleep around" with many men; there are women LIKE THAT who are RESPECTABLE.

 

You could meat the women of your dreams,and fall in love with who she is as a person; her humour, wit, intelligense, strength determination. THis women could also have had FWB or casual sex type of relationships. You would never have known - because not all women who have casual sex necessarily sleep around a lot. They just have sex occasionally, and they wait until the RIGHT guy comes up for the position; a guy with the right chemistry, with whome they desire to have sex with.

 

I certainly did not settle for just ANY guy to have sex with. I waited about 5 years without sex, then met a guy by chance who I had good chemistry with, and who was ridiculously good looking. I have a HIGH SEX DRIVE, and yet I waited until the right guy came along to satisfy my sexual urge.

 

I would never feel okay about giving my body up, to a guy who I did not feel comfortable with. The chemistry has to be right, and I have to WANT the guy sexually. Life wise, he has to want me just as badly.

+1.

 

Excellent post.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

So... Yeah a good chunk of the guys you sleep with take this view of you to some degree. The ones who are more moderate are still acutely aware of it.

 

Excuse me, but if you are going to address me specifically, it would be a good thing if you actually read my posts. I've made it clear that I personally ONLY have sex within a committed relationship. I'm the type of person who ONLY feels "that way" towards a man when there is REAL intimacy involved. I have not had a FWB relationship in my life (yes, I had a couple of "indiscretions" when young and wild); I am not capable of one.

 

The "chunk" of guys I sleep with consists of one fine man. He read this thread and cannot believe I even waste five minutes out of my wonderful day arguing with men who clearly want to keep women in some kind of prescribed realm of sexual behavior.

 

Like me, he has a daughter in her 20's who has played around sexually. (Bring on the hateful stripper comment, or what have you now. So classy to insult peoples' children). He did not like it ... because he worried about her, but he did not deem her "trashbag" either. She is married now to a wonderful young man, who also does not see her as "diseased" or "of low value."

 

As I have said over and over in this thread, it's fine that folks like what they like. If a guy requires a virgin to be happy, comfortable and confident in his relationship, so be it.

 

My problem is when people try to shove their own personal value systems down others throats by using a moral platform. This goes for self righteous vegetarians denigrating the carnivores among us, the anti-abortionists who declare those who believe in abortion "murderers," certain sects of Christians who loudly decry members of other religions as being in league with Satan, those who believe it is "wrong" to be gay and that gay people should deny the reality of who they are ...

 

And, of course, men or women who trash members of the opposite sex who don't exemplify their own personal moral ideals.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Cross your legs dear. Your brains are falling out.

 

My chastity belt is holding them in, you silly lil' guy. My old man makes me wear it while he's out on the road. Maintains my value, you know.

[donnamaybe]

And therefore it did not "end well" since the man got hurt.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

The only point proven was the one I also pointed out - that I would never get involved in that kind of thing again because, regardless of what the two agree to at the onset, someone MIGHT get hurt, and I'm not the type of person who relishes hurting others.

 

The rest of your points reside not in what you say but somewhere else...

[harmfulsweetz]

I'm all for people having their OWN values and staying true to them. You live your life the way you choose to, you make your rules and you follow them, but not everyone follows those same rules. That fact does not downgrade those other people in terms of respectability, it just means they are different. Variety is the spice of life after all.

 

Rather than preaching on here about your value judgements on people, why don't some posters (untouchable etc) use their time to really pursue people that follow the same rule book and share the same values? Also, I'm absolutely sick to death of the bitter blanket statements (especially from Untouchable_Fire) that claim that women who have participated in FWB relationships are going to cheat 'early and often'. Really? How so? Where's your evidence for this Untouchable? If you're prepared to make such an assumption, and such a statement across the board, I'd like to hope you have some pretty strong evidence to back yourself up. Other than that, (and I sincerely doubt you'll provide any evidence for your bogus blanket statement disguised as fact) I really think you need to check your mindset.

 

A person does not have less integrity or morals simply because they were involved in an FWB. What you do is not who you are. A person can still value family, love, loyalty, trust, intimacy and sex if they have had an FWB, just as much as someone who has not. Why does someone who hasn't had an FWB equate to someone who views sex healthily? Maybe they have hang-ups, maybe they have a fragile self-esteem, maybe they view sex as disgusting and dirty. Why does a woman who is emotionally stable, enjoys sex but is not in the right place for a relationship, or she is only attracted to the man on a physical level, become low-grade? Why should a woman feel ashamed of such activity?

 

I'm going to own up, and say I used to equate casual sex with feeling ashamed, and such, even though I enjoyed the activity in itself. I was more concerned with how others would view me. In the past couple of weeks, I've re-evaluated that opinion, and decided that, or more like, realized, that I'm not a low-grade person, I'm not a hoe as 9lives so tactfully put it, I do not have a high number of sexual partners, and I'm clean. I'm also not up for a relationship, but I want sex. Not need, I want it. I have urges just like men do, and it isn't some revenge tactic, or gender battle. If it was, we'd want to win, and be seen as 'better than men' we actually want to draw, and be seen as equal to men. If men can enjoy the physical perks at their leisure, shouldn't women be granted the same benefits?

 

On the same note, a man will never get looked down on for pursuing a woman purely for a sexual purpose. It's a man's job to chase and score, a woman's job to say no. But because that woman makes a choice to say yes, and have her wicked way with a man, she's a hoe. But the man isn't a hoe for pursuing her in the first place with those intentions! Point I'm making-why is the responsibility on women's shoulders to be "respectable" while the man can follow their pecker to greener pastures without that worry?

 

Also, why does an FWB situation mean that HE'S just not that into her? Why not the other way around? Hm?

 

In this day and age, it's ridiculous that discussions like these still take place. Women shouldn't be still fighting to be seen as equal, even in the bedroom (and various other places ) we shouldn't have to be questioning our own value system with every urge we get, and every lover we take. A person is not defined by what they do, they are defined by who they are, and how they do it. What I mean is, a woman can participate in a purely sexual relationship, and that can be that, that is what she does, but who she is-is her values, her beliefs, her morals, her humour, intellect, caring nature etc. Would men really downgrade a woman of a strong calibre who is highly compatible with them on every other level except this one? Where's the sense in that? I'd honestly say that if a man lost respect for me because I had an FWB when I was eighteen or whatever, I'd consider that he didn't possess much respect for me in the first place and thus, lose all respect for him.

 

On another note, is it any wonder some women feel the need to lie about their sexual history? If LS is representative of the male population in society (hopefully not) is really a surprise that women may tweak their number a little? If a number can alter a person's perception of you, I'd think the smart thing to do is lie. Maybe that is deceitful, I'd personally be honest, but threads such as these, pronounce the utter shame that is brought onto women over sex, it's not a surprise to find that they don't want to come clean. In their desperation to be exactly what their man is looking for, they lie. Wow, go figure, because men's attitudes really pave the way for honesty.

 

I think it may be a matter of women's attitudes and ideas and sexuality evolving, and men staying pretty much the same. They just can't keep up with the pace, and so revert or more like stay with the same, old, traditional bs, that women no longer have to want. We can have careers now, we can earn the same as men, we can make our own babies without a man being around, (except for the sperm of course), men's roles in society diminishing fast. Maybe I'm so far off the mark but I think a lot of men are stuck in the 50s, and haven't fully evolved in their attitudes to deal with such changes. Women can have sex like men, we have always been able to, it's just now more socially acceptable (as sincereonlineguy pointed out) and more widely talked about.

 

This change from the 'wait until marriage' mindset could be tipped to be down to women's status in society. No longer the hub of the home, we are now independent career women, and often don't have time for a relationship, other than a sexual one. Many threads on here have been started by men saying that women do not enjoy sex, and most people know that's not true. Women do enjoy sex, as much as men, and so why should they go without because they don't have a relationship on the go? I'm going to be honest, a vibrator and lube and my fingers do NOT feel as good as a man, a living, breathing man, they don't. They are fun, a whole lot of fun, but they get boring. There's only so many settings on a vibrator and they cost to upkeep!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Ahhhh! It seems that a large quantity of stagnant hot air has mysteriously vacated this room!

[donnamaybe]

I think you're too quick to lump me in with a lot of other posters on this board.

I realize that now. Sorry, and thanks for the explanation.

[harmfulsweetz]

Also, since when did an FWB equate to promiscuity?

 

You can have had an fwb, but have a low number of sexual partners.

 

To me, someone who is promiscuos (sp?) has a relatively high number of partners, probably into the whole ONS thing, and been around as the saying goes.

 

An FWB is simply a circumstance or situation whichever you wish to call it, whereby both people enjoy sex together but nothing more. That doesn't mean the person is promiscuos.

[carhill]

You can have had an fwb, but have a low number of sexual partners.

Let's go with that..... I know the OP said 'relationships', but let's presume a lady has a low number of sexual partners and has a long-term f*ck-buddy, say for years/decades, that she (and he) meets to get sexual 'needs' met outside of relationships. Say she's very clear about that. She doesn't f*ck her buddy while dating or when in a relationship or while married. OK, guys (by guys I mean men) how do you view that dynamic? She's not promiscuous. She turns off the FWB sex faucet when deciding to date, shifting the potential priority to the dating partner she has chosen to entertain, and certainly without question for a boyfriend/husband.

 

The real eye-opener for men is how many women have done this/do this and the men (dates/boyfriends/husbands) are none the wiser, either being completely non-disclosed or having the telltale signs of 'something' explained away as inconsequential. However, for purposes of the discussion, let's say the lady is completely disclosed and transparent 'XXX and I have sex when I'm not dating anyone or in a relationship. We have no feelings for each other. Here, I want you to meet him'.

 

OK, guys, what say you?

 

Also, for the guys, have you ever had a f*ck-buddy? If so, how did you handle that dynamic wrt your relationships/marriages? Did you think it was healthy for you? Why? How were you able to reconcile the f*ck-buddy part of your life with respect to becoming a loving and faithful husband? Say, for purposes of discussion, that option, like I described above, was long-term and available to you any time you were not dating or in a relationship/marriage. Would that affect how you viewed those dynamics? Why?

 

I've already stated my preference and criteria for respect prior and find this avenue of exploration an interesting one. Great discussion.

[A O]

Not, it's not, because if "men" are going to come into this thread and denigrate a woman's character because of choosing an FWB situation at some point in their life, then we have a right to know if they are coming from a standpoint of how they view ALL people in that situation, or if they are applying the same old double standard I've seen you and some of these others apply in every single gender based discussion on this board.

Two points:

(1) – when women stop judging, often negatively, male sexuality, henceforth character, for being overtly sexual then that will be the day that men will stop doing the same to women

(2) - the (sexual) double standard is a huge misnomer based on the fact that overtly sexual behavior (exerted mainly by men in days gone by) has been judged, critiqued and labeled since the beginning of time. Now that more and more women are starting to behave in a similar manner to many men, then so too will they attract the same sort of judgments that this behavior has always attracted. This is not a witch hunt against women, this is not one-way traffic towards women – all this is something that happens when people behave in a certain manner. It is behavior specific not gender specific. As it stands, being judged, negatively for one’s sexual manner, is water off a ducks back to most men and something that women will have to get used to should they chose to behave likewise.

 

 

For instance, we have the double standard. Men being validated through attaining sex while women either are not or devalued.

In a typical dating situation, men have to seriously put the brakes on their sexual nature. They cannot come across as being too sexual too soon or they will lose “value” in the eyes of a woman. The less control they have, the less they’re able to correctly read the situation – sexually speaking - then the less “value” they will have in the eyes of a woman. Are women the only gender whereupon a “value”, often a negative value, is placed on their sexuality? No. Are women the only gender who “thinks” that a value, especially a negative value, is placed on their sexuality? Absolutely!

 

Wake up folks!!

 

 

.

[donnamaybe]

Two points:

(1) – when women stop judging, often negatively, male sexuality, henceforth character, for being overtly sexual then that will be the day that men will stop doing the same to women

I challenge you to find anywhere in this forum where I have complained about my man enjoying sex too much.

(2) - the (sexual) double standard is a huge misnomer based on the fact that overtly sexual behavior (exerted mainly by men in days gone by) has been judged, critiqued and labeled since the beginning of time. Now that more and more women are starting to behave in a similar manner to many men, then so too will they attract the same sort of judgments that this behavior has always attracted.

I have YET to find a woman who has lied to a man JUST to get him in bed, and then afterward talk about him in derogatory terms because of it.

[A O]

But we are talking about an FWB situation wherein the woman has control over the situation and, in fact, prefers to NOT sleep with various and sundry men. It's just for sexual satisfaction, and PLEASE don't tell me women aren't supposed to enjoy sex.

She has control over a situation that’s advantageous to many men. I don’t see a lot of control in that.

 

A woman who desperately sleeps around with numerous men for validation probably has mental health problems. I agree with that. The two are completely different types of people, however

They both swim in the same pool. What separates the two is repeated behavior. When you head down this road, you run the risk of being guilty by association. And again, that’s behavioral specific not gender specific.

 

 

I agree. The reason I entered into an FWB was because I was NOT interested in a relationship for a period of time. As soon as my guy entered my life 5 1/2 years ago, he changed my mind about R's.

It seems to be a common theme. One can’t help but wonder – if you weren’t ready then, what’s so different now? More to the point though, it’s indicative of this type of relationship – a holding ground for those not ready for the real thing. And again, that’ll make some people wonder…

 

 

.

[GoodOnPaper]

Also, for the guys, have you ever had a f*ck-buddy? If so, how did you handle that dynamic wrt your relationships/marriages? Did you think it was healthy for you? Why? How were you able to reconcile the f*ck-buddy part of your life with respect to becoming a loving and faithful husband? Say, for purposes of discussion, that option, like I described above, was long-term and available to you any time you were not dating or in a relationship/marriage. Would that affect how you viewed those dynamics? Why?

 

No, I have never had any form of casual sex (NSA, FWB, etc.). This was never an issue between my wife and me -- we had similar dating/sexual histories in terms of quantity and quality. However, I expected marriage intimacy to make up for what I imagine that I missed out on and it hasn't even come close. So, the LACK of a f*ck-buddy part of my life makes my marriage feel fake or illegitimate. I don't get why most women want relationships so badly when it seems that attraction associated with a casual sex situation is much stronger than attraction to a guy for relationship purposes.

[A O]

I challenge you to find anywhere in this forum where I have complained about my man enjoying sex too much.

Its not about complaining Donna. Its about judging. Its about judging male sexuality and deeming it not to be to your liking. The exact same behavior that some men are discussing here. The same behavior that you and most women, in fact, exhibit when it suits.

 

I have YET to find a woman who has lied to a man JUST to get him in bed, and then afterward talk about him in derogatory terms because of it.

People will lie to get what they want. For some men that means lying to garner sex. For some women that means lying to garner a relationship of some sort that's important to her. People will talk also, either in a straight out derogatory manner or a roundabout shaming-style way. That's the way it is.

 

Now, back onto judging, critiquing and labeling sexuality and debunking the myth that these behaviors are heaped on to only one gender!!

 

 

.

[donnamaybe]

Its not about complaining Donna. Its about judging. Its about judging male sexuality and deeming it not to be to your liking. The exact same behavior that some men are discussing here. The same behavior that you and most women, in fact, exhibit when it suits.

Apparently you haven't read posts by certain posters in this thread with all the degredation being heaped upon women merely for admitting they enjoy sex and having it with whom they choose just like men. I have yet to meet a woman who bitches about a man JUST because he enjoys sex and wants it regularly (which means a LOT). It's just the means, i.e. lying, they use to get it. In fact, a man who is honest about his wants, even when all he wants is sex alone, is just fine by me and every woman I personally know.