Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Some people never grow up. Apparently these young men are more mature than others.

 

And fortunately for those others, there is the mail order bride industry. Or prearranged marriages with young virgins, a la Warren Jeffs and crew.

[donnamaybe]

And fortunately for those others, there is the mail order bride industry. Or prearranged marriages with young virgins, a la Warren Jeffs and crew.

As "those others" hold such a rigid view of double standards, that's the only women who'll have 'em.

[EasyHeart]

You mean like men always do? The men who would NEVER think of having sex with a gal they weren't in a serious relationship with?

I think this gets to the nub of the whole FWB-thing. Many women have been convinced by the media that they need to act like men and get revenge against men. The reality is that most men don't sleep around and don't have promiscuous sex. Women are never going to "impress" a man looking for a LTR with how slutty they are, and they're going to turn off some (most?). So it's pretty disingenuous to have a casual attitude toward relationships and then attack people by saying "You can't judge me!" Of course I can. And I judge that I don't want to get involved with someone like you.

[9Lives]

It depends what do you mean by "just sleep with him". A fwb situation, just like a LTR, may often be quite complex and depend on a few circumstances, such as past relationships, emotional baggage, availability, intentions, honesty, communication, attraction... I think that whether people develop feelings towards each other does not depend on labels. People can fall in love and fall out of love with each other in so many different ways!!

So there isn't a single answer to your question. Some women can probably do that, others will be too shy to tell you they want something more but are afraid to do the relationship thing for whatever reasons.

Do you happen to be in a situation like this?

 

No im not but my best friend and I had a big argument about it. She thinks its okay and Im not sure about it really. I dont want to come across as a saint cause Im really not. I do feel like when a woman is fking around with a guy...new term is friend....I dont see that as her being in the best position for her especially if the guy is someone she can begin to like. I see her being the under dog not the power dog.

 

I dont like telling guys I just want to be friends and sleeping with him. Men interpet things differently than women. We have never seen things the same.

 

The more women have friends..fb...fwb...the less a man will respect women and relationships. Its happening every day more and more.

[EasyHeart]

I would parrot you and say "if you think it's anything else, you are deluding yourself" or "you are a dumbass" but I'm not ignorant enough to believe that my value judgements are absolutes.

I'm not arguing that people who engage in FWB situations should be put in jail or cast into eternal hellfire. The question was whether it would be a factor in considering a woman for a LTR. It is for me. And I'm fairly confident it would be for many (and probably most) men. I think it's an unhealthy attitude that many people have been convinced is "cool".

 

I'll go back to something I said earlier: Listen to your dad. If you told your dad that Trevor was you f-buddy, do you think he'd be happy for you?

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

I'll go back to something I said earlier: Listen to your dad. If you told your dad that Trevor was you f-buddy, do you think he'd be happy for you?

 

I'm afraid if my Dad was still alive, he would not be able to deal with the fact that I am not a virgin! I'm OLD! And I have a 23 year old daughter (immaculately conceived, of course)!

 

Just FYI, I tried to raise my daughter to believe that sex was "special" and to not "give herself away" thoughtlessly in that manner. I did try to impose my own values around it onto her; I did not completely succeed. Where I know I did succeed, however, was in teaching her to OWN her sexuality. Guys who would label her something like "trashbag" because she may have had sex outside of an uncommitted relationship, fortunately, she knows would not be worth five minutes of her time. She does know (just like I know about myself) that her sexual history is a part of her and some of her choices might make her an unsuitable match for some individuals. So be it. The right person is going to accept you AS YOU ARE.

 

And, IMO, creepy individuals are going to waste their time denigrating others who have different values than they do.

[9Lives]

I'm not arguing that people who engage in FWB situations should be put in jail or cast into eternal hellfire. The question was whether it would be a factor in considering a woman for a LTR. It is for me. And I'm fairly confident it would be for many (and probably most) men. I think it's an unhealthy attitude that many people have been convinced is "cool".

 

I'll go back to something I said earlier: Listen to your dad. If you told your dad that Trevor was you f-buddy, do you think he'd be happy for you?

 

I dont see that men want a ho as a girlfriend. This arrangement is hoe-ing. Investment free hoe-ing

 

I think that women ARE trying to be like men and its making things worst. Men are using this mindset to their advantage and winning at the fking game. Then when the meet a woman with class, it turns them on. It back to a challenge to them. I dont see that men want a ho as a girlfriend. he want a women he respects

[Mme. Chaucer]

I dont see that men want a ho as a girlfriend. This arrangement is hoe-ing. Investment free hoe-ing

 

I think that women ARE trying to be like men and its making things worst. Men are using this mindset to their advantage and winning at the fking game. Then when the meet a woman with class, it turns them on. It back to a challenge to them. I dont see that men want a ho as a girlfriend. he want a women he respects

 

Well, 9Lives, you seem to know exactly where you stand on this issue and I hope you will remain true to yourself and not give in to any pressure to have sex outside of marriage or whatever form of committed relationship you deem appropriate for yourself.

 

You're not helping anything by calling women who don't share your perspective "hoes." And also probably not helping by thinking of sex as an oppositional "fking game." That kind of mindset needs to go away in order to help facilitate a kind of healing and fraternity between the genders, which evidently (I gather from most of my reading here on LS) is in short supply.

[greenwood]

The 'oxytocin' effect only happens when there is a genuine 'feel good factor' associated with the sex. So, yes, the quality of the sexual experience also makes a difference. You can have sex with a guy dozens of times but if you don't really like him and you don't enjoy the experience you're definitely not going to fall for him.

 

I have never heard it put that way before and yes, it makes sense actually.

[eerie_reverie]

Are you playing yourself as a woman being a man's fbuddy? No

Can a woman really engage in this type of relationship for a long time without catching feelings? I could

Do you put her mentally in a box which means she will ONLY be a piece of a/ss and nothing more? Some guys probably would but for most it's probably just a case of he's just not that into you, or not looking for a relationship with anyone

Are we just adults and SHOULD BE able to handle this decision? I don't judge people who do this, I think being honest with someone about where you're at is better than faking a relationship

 

I respect people who engage in FWB, but don't do it myself.

 

My reasons are two-fold:

 

1. I have realized a long time ago that I am uncomfortable doing it with someone unless I'm prepared to get knocked up with his baby.

 

2. I tend to like shy, conservative guys who don't engage in this behaivior and I don't want to jeopardize future relationships by bringing more aqcuiring more baggage than I already have.

 

As a result, I've been totally celibate since my last R which ended a few months ago; and before that I went for 2 years.

[irc333]

You mean like men always do? The men who would NEVER think of having sex with a gal they weren't in a serious relationship with?

 

 

Well, the thing is...I think there some problems that COULD develop with this kind of relationship....let's see they're all for it....one of them migth want to stop doing it.

 

I had a female friend that had a male friend that did the FWB thing....well, she got a new boyfriend, that stopped his supply of sex. lol...he wasn't too happy about it, and voiced his opinion on it, and she hwas like "oh well, that's life" and sent him on his way.

 

So even in a purely physical relationship....it could still cause jealously or what have you.

 

With me, I think I might wind up wanting it all the time, or perhaps wanting the person to be my gf...would just turn out that way, physical or not.

[Surrealist]

Maybe contrary to popular practise but I'm a guy and have never had a FWB. Was married for 8 years. Separated in March 06 and not had casual sex or other initimate relationship since. Doesnt mean I dont feel like it. Sometimes can feel like an odd one out, but then I remind myself that I have my own personal scruples and hold to my convictions. As such Im not a fan of women who have lots of casual sex or FWBs but that is their choice. Im also not a fan of guys who play the field and mislead women.

[D-Jam]

I only lose respect for women who have f-buddies if:

 

a) They clearly show they're trying to get the f-buddy to grow into more.

 

Meaning they honest-to-God want this guy to be her boyfriend and even future husband, but he doesn't want her like that and/or doesn't want to commit...so she settles for banging him in the hopes he'll "come around".

 

Meanwhile, she gets into jealous fits whenever this guy does something with another woman. She acts "possessive" like he's her BF, even though he's not. That and she passes up many ideal boyfriend-potential men because she's desperately trying to get this one guy to change.

 

b) She uses her f-buddy as the "standard to top" and thus only wants a guy that will make her forget about her f-buddy.

 

So she's happily banging her f-buddy, and maybe would love it if he would be "more", but she understands that won't happen. However, she now believes her ideal man must be exactly like him, but with a willingness to commit. Thus she ends up passing up many good potential guys because they're not as good looking, or have as much money, or game, or sex appeal, or whatever...as the f-buddy.

 

I also notice many women in this situation tend to paint an unrealistic picture of it all. So they'll imagine the f-buddy as the ideal boyfriend (when even he isn't like this imaginary guy) and thus keep thinking there must be someone out there who fits this unrealistic standard she has set.

 

 

My grudge with both A and B is that for all the women who complain how there's no good men out there, this behavior only keeps them single and looking. Not to mention many women need to stop thinking that just because a guy sleeps with them doesn't mean he'll ever see her as "girlfriend potential". I notice that many times when more "average" women who get into bed with "above average" men suddenly think they are the "caliber" to snag one of these guys as a boyfriend. Unfortunately when "above average" man ends up committing to an "above average" female, then there is bitterness.

 

 

In terms of me dating someone, I have no issue if the woman had a FB or even was seeing one when we were in the stages of "seeing each other". I know it sounds very liberal, but I believe in the idea that neither side owes loyalty to one another UNTIL they decide to call it a "relationship".

 

So if I meet a woman at a party, we hit it off, and we start seeing one another...I would only want her to stop seeing this guy if we decide to get into a RL and call one another "significant other". Granted I also don't believe in dragging out the "seeing one another" phase. So I won't get with women who just want to stay "open" and "see me" for months before finally deciding to commit.

 

Call me old-fashioned. Plus I don't like the idea that while she's dragging out the "seeing me" process, that she's banging this guy regularly and wondering if I'm worth giving up the FB for.

 

 

I think it's fine for men and women to engage in safe casual sex while single just as long as they don't get unrealistic about what they want in a mate and how they handle dating. See it as a temporary fix rather than a hope to push for.

[greenwood]

I think that women ARE trying to be like men and its making things worst. Men are using this mindset to their advantage and winning at the fking game.

 

 

What do you mean by fking game?? I though that no man thinks about any relationship as a fking game once they are older than 22.

 

Then when the meet a woman with class, it turns them on. It back to a challenge to them. I dont see that men want a ho as a girlfriend. he want a women he respects.

 

Yes, it might turn them on, but in about a week they will consider her as boring with no mystery and fantasy, and will want the hot sexy love goddess who enjoys to have sex, sees herself as a sexual woman, and loves being attracted to her man back.

[Woggle]

Women like that tend to think they are beating men at their own game and are much more likely to cheat. I am sorry about it is true. Are men not supposed to pick a woman who is less likely to betray them?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Dude, you really sound like a sexist.

What does DNA have to do with this issue? A PERSON can decide if it is suitable for them to have a FWB relationship. Another PERSON can decide to reject all potential suitors who have had a FWB relationship. But trashing all women who have had one is ... ignorant and really makes you look like a creep.

Women who have NSA sex are probably very unlikely to be "the living equivalent of a blowup doll." They are just as likely to be looking for a MALE equivalent of a blowup doll. I'd imagine that the women who are participating in FWB situations are doing so to get needs of their own met.

There was a sexual revolution. Both genders participated. How one handles their own sexuality is a personal issue.

 

Yes... your very correct. Both Evolution and Nature are sexist. Seriously... You specifically asked that question JUST so you could go off on your little tirade and call me a sexist creep. You don't like the effects of estrogen and testosterone on brain and body development... take it up with whatever entity you pray to.

 

How a person handles their sexuality IS their prerogative UNTIL they decide to express that sexuality with someone else... then it needs to be mutual.

 

Also... contrary to prior belief it DOES matter how other people see you. I'm sure Sarah Palin thinks herself a genius and some agree.... most think she is delusional. Similarly you can think yourself a "liberated woman" and some may agree, but most will think you are just skanky.

 

Now... go find people who agree with your point of view and keep pretending that anyone who disagrees has something wrong with them.

[9Lives]

Well, 9Lives, you seem to know exactly where you stand on this issue and I hope you will remain true to yourself and not give in to any pressure to have sex outside of marriage or whatever form of committed relationship you deem appropriate for yourself.

 

You're not helping anything by calling women who don't share your perspective "hoes." And also probably not helping by thinking of sex as an oppositional "fking game." That kind of mindset needs to go away in order to help facilitate a kind of healing and fraternity between the genders, which evidently (I gather from most of my reading here on LS) is in short supply.

 

 

hold up...hold up! I'm not trying to say what I will or won't do. I will admit that I don't feel like I'm at my best self letting a man get my sweet candy with no strings attached. its a down grade to me and for me. I have made some big mistakes and I'm learning that women playing a mans game don't win MOST of the time. that's all I'm tryna say.

 

men like a women they are attracted to that makes them respect them. they like a lot despite them wanting to get in your pants

[Untouchable_Fire]

hold up...hold up! I'm not trying to say what I will or won't do. I will admit that I don't feel like I'm at my best self letting a man get my sweet candy with no strings attached. its a down grade to me and for me. I have made some big mistakes and I'm learning that women playing a mans game don't win MOST of the time. that's all I'm tryna say.

men like a women they are attracted to that makes them respect them. they like a lot despite them wanting to get in your pants

 

Don't let her try to shame you!

 

Your attitude is perfect and natural. As a guy I can tell you for certain that it's very hard to love a woman you can't respect.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Don't let her try to shame you!

 

Your attitude is perfect and natural. As a guy I can tell you for certain that it's very hard to love a woman you can't respect.

 

I didn't try to shame her, and I bet she knows it. In fact, I praised her for seeming to have good self-knowledge. I also suggested that calling women "hoes" and thinking of sexual relationships as "games" to be won or lost, scoring or sacrificing points for your gender, was not productive or positive.

 

Untouchable_Fire, your positions regarding what women should and should not do in society are well known on LS, and I think it's nice that you seem to have acquired the type of woman / relationship that meets your needs ... sort of. On the other hand, I'm never happy when ignorance and bigotry flourish, so I'd have preferred it if you had circumstances come up that caused you to challenge your archaic and bitter belief system, especially with regards to my fellow ladies. Oh well. At least we don't know each other personally, and my daughter, my friends and me would not even spend five minutes over a cup of coffee with a man who views women the way that you do. So, all is well ... until you find out your girlfriend had casual sex when she was 17, or something like that. If that happens ... I hope she has a quick ticket back to whatever country she came from before she has to experience all your wrath.

 

Carry on!

[LittleTiger]

I think it's amazing how people are prepared to judge others in a world where we are all supposed to have free choice. No wonder there is hatred and war.

 

To those who are so strongly opposed to FWB, FB or casual sex, I'm curious about where you draw the line. I mean where, exactly, does a woman earn the title of 'hoe'?

 

Do you have to be a virgin when you get married?

Is it ok to have sex if you're definitely getting married, or even just hoping to marry that person?

Or is it ok provided you love the person and they love you (or at least say they do), regardless of whether you plan to marry?

Or is a 'I might fall in love with this person' relationship enough?

Or how about just dating with the possibility that it may lead to more?

 

Does it matter how many men a woman sleeps with? If she slept with 50 or 100 men during her life would that be ok provided she married them all? Or would it be acceptable provided she was in some kind of non-casual relationship with them, although she didn't marry them?

 

I just don't understand how people can judge others so harshly. None of us is perfect. When I meet a new man, I have no interest in how many women he's slept with, or whether he was in love with them or not. What he has chosen to do with his own body, or any consenting woman's, is up to him.

 

My only concern is whether he treated them with kindness and respect. I would expect him to afford me the same respect and acceptance, no matter what sexual or relationship choices I have made during my life.

[TheBigQuestion]

While I certainly don't speak for all men, whenever I've been in any sort of relationship that could be characterized as FWB, it's been because I needed/enjoyed the sex enough but simply did not like the girl enough to be in a relationship with her. Bottom line, if I really like a girl as a person AND I think she's extremely attractive, I'm going to try to get into a relationship with her unless I've experienced some very recent emotional trauma. If I'm going to keep things casual, it's because she is lacking something that I value in women I truly want to date, but I'd rather be having sex than turn down the whole situation altogether. I'm willing to bet this is the same for many men and women who find themselves in FWB.

 

With that said, I can't say that being in a FWB relationship with a girl has ever made me think less of her. I already thought less of her in the first place, and that's why she became an FWB instead of a girlfriend.

Edited October 25, 2010 by TheBigQuestion

[bac]

Can a woman really engage in this type of relationship for a long time without catching feelings?

Do you put her mentally in a box which means she will ONLY be a piece of a/ss and nothing more?

 

The way I see it goes is this.. NOW Im giving my opinion below...follow me!

 

I see it meaning:

You are not good enough to be my girlfriend.

I am waiting for something better to come along.

Free to fk anybody else and not have to answer to you.

Free to find another woman and give her more..family time, money, etc.

 

I just feel like its not really a good idea. What do you think as a woman or man?

Me personally, as a woman, you better off having a sugar daddy then....LOL cause then Im winning.

 

Yes, a woman can do FWBs for a long time but the guy should not be a BF material for some reason. Also, the woman should be OK with FWBs for some reason as well. For example: she is around 40s, just divorced after a long boring marriage, hopeless for serious R because of mental disorder, too young with no common sense and no experiences in FWBs and a bunch of other reasons.

If you are not one of the women who have good reasons for FWBs, you can not do anything about that.

 

As for meaning of FWBs, you take all reasonsibility on yourself. But, the guys are not perfect and they are often very defective. I mean those guys who are doing FWBs for many years and who can not do anything better. In fact, the guy is not good enough to be a BF himself. He might wait for a special girl. Who knows what is on his mind? Perhaps, he has personality disorder with no chip of emotional intelligence in his brains. Therefore, he lacks ability to experience attachment and emotional connection. He can not experience empathy to girls. He can not see that men and women are different/opposite about sex. He might really believe that there are women who are like men and they only want to get a d....k inside their p.....ies. In other words, the problem in him, but it is not in you. He can not develop relationships with any girl. You are fortunate that he does not want you as a GF.

 

A sugar daddy is fun for everything except sex. If sex is not important to you, you might enjoy the guy who can provide some nice nonsexual benefits which women appreciate so much.

 

If it is a true FWBs, there is no respect mutually. Respect is a basic emotional need but there is no emotional connection for FWBs.

[Untouchable_Fire]

And I have a 23 year old daughter)!

Just FYI, I tried to raise my daughter to believe that sex was "special" and to not "give herself away" thoughtlessly in that manner. I did try to impose my own values around it onto her; I did not completely succeed. Where I know I did succeed, however, was in teaching her to OWN her sexuality. Guys who would label her something like "trashbag" because she may have had sex outside of an uncommitted relationship, fortunately, she knows would not be worth five minutes of her time. She does know (just like I know about myself) that her sexual history is a part of her and some of her choices might make her an unsuitable match for some individuals. So be it. The right person is going to accept you AS YOU ARE.

And, IMO, creepy individuals are going to waste their time denigrating others who have different values than they do.

 

I'm sure every time a guy shoves $5 into her g-string he mentally thanks your parenting skills.

 

No... I'm kidding.

 

Seriously... when do you not own your sexuality? Owning something means taking responsibility for it... not treating it like it's cheap... accepting the consequences of it.

 

You have a full right to do what you wish. However... you must be willing to face the consequences of that. One of those consequences is the fact that guys like me won't date you.

 

I didn't try to shame her, and I bet she knows it. In fact, I praised her for seeming to have good self-knowledge. I also suggested that calling women "hoes" and thinking of sexual relationships as "games" to be won or lost, scoring or sacrificing points for your gender, was not productive or positive

Untouchable_Fire, your positions regarding what women should and should not do in society are well known on LS, and I think it's nice that you seem to have acquired the type of woman / relationship that meets your needs ... sort of. On the other hand, I'm never happy when ignorance and bigotry flourish, so I'd have preferred it if you had circumstances come up that caused you to challenge your archaic and bitter belief system, especially with regards to my fellow ladies. Oh well. At least we don't know each other personally, and my daughter, my friends and me would not even spend five minutes over a cup of coffee with a man who views women the way that you do. So, all is well ... until you find out your girlfriend had casual sex when she was 17, or something like that. If that happens ... I hope she has a quick ticket back to whatever country she came from before she has to experience all your wrath.

Carry on!

 

Even OP felt you were trying to shame her. Your statement came across very sarcastic... as is often your tone.

 

Your views are well known too! Bigoted, intolerant, and often insulting.

 

I met my GF here! If she decided to dump me tomorrow she would still be here, as it is completely independent of me. Your suggestion that she goes home just shows what kind of person you actually are.

[TheBigQuestion]

I'm sure every time a guy shoves $5 into her g-string he mentally thanks your parenting skills.

 

No... I'm kidding.

 

Seriously... when do you not own your sexuality? Owning something means taking responsibility for it... not treating it like it's cheap... accepting the consequences of it.

 

You have a full right to do what you wish. However... you must be willing to face the consequences of that. One of those consequences is the fact that guys like me won't date you.

 

 

 

Even OP felt you were trying to shame her. Your statement came across very sarcastic... as is often your tone.

 

Your views are well known too! Bigoted, intolerant, and often insulting.

 

I met my GF here! If she decided to dump me tomorrow she would still be here, as it is completely independent of me. Your suggestion that she goes home just shows what kind of person you actually are.

 

Honestly I think both you and Mme Chaucer have been a bit extreme in this thread and have resorted to shaming the other. I tried to get the thread back on topic above, so perhaps we should maybe use that to get back on track, hmm?

[Woggle]

Judging is needed when it comes to relationships because the past matters. When you apply to work at a place they check your past and they use it to judge whether or not you should be hired so why should relationships be any different? Why is it that a person's actions and the patterns they have displayed throughout their life all of a sudden don't matter when it comes to commiting to a person and sharing your life with them?