Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[on a learning curve]

It doesn't matter what it is. What matters is whether this type of thought process/behavior is instigated, is common place among people. Simple answer is - you bet it is. The term is probably too general, maybe too harsh but most people get the message I'm sure. Sex or sexual urges are discouraged, usually greatly so especially among the young. The basis for my argument starts in ones formative years.

 

Wrong and the huge amount of testosterone that flows through men is just one reason why.

 

Thems the breaks. But I'm sure you can easily justify your own views. I look forward to them.

 

 

.

 

1) You have no rational basis for your argument, that is why it is a fallacy. If you'd like to talk about sex within a cultural/historical context, I am game.

 

2) Again, no rational basis for your claim. Testosterone...so? Have you heard of the clitoris? - women have one for no other reason than sexual pleasure.

 

My views are not reactionary. I don't need to justify them.

[carhill]

In another thread, apparently a male friend who's fresh out of jail and living at mom's has ten FWB's lined up and the OP was wondering about the ethics of exclusivity/polysexuality in such an 'arrangement'. Since these women apparently are non-disclosed and think he's 'getting his life back together', and their fwb benefits are assisting themselves and him in that regard, what might another man's viewpoint be on that dynamic wrt respect for the FWB? What delineates 'respectable' FWB from a 'low-grade chic'?

[lamaman3]

My conclusion is that women who have prolonged promiscuity in general tend to not make good relationship partners. It actually has more to do with their attitude than it does the act of sex. They tend to find relationships and commitment in general to be confining and the first attractive man that smiles at them they are ready to sleep with behind your back. Live a little bit in this world and see reality before you call me close minded.

 

I mean look - if you go to a nightclub and you see a girl kissing every single guy in the club and then screaming, "I want to take home the hottest guy here and screw his brains out tonight!" then yea, that woman probably is not going to want to be your monogamous GIRLFRIEND at THAT TIME. The irony is, 6 months later, the woman now wants a boyfriend, and she is the cute girl you have a crush on in your class and take out on dates. Thats simply the reality here just like there are times in your life when you masturbate to pornography or feel like going to a strip club and there are times when you want a more emotional connection with a girlfriend. And when a woman like the above meets you in the library and wants you to be her boyfriend she understands the judgement against her and therefore wont ever tell you about that night she had in the club 6 months earlier. Evey woman here knows what I am talking about it - its only the men that will disagree with me here.

[Woggle]

"prolonged promiscuity" is a male construct. It stems from the M/W complex - you are either a good girl or a promiscuous one like the one I watch on porno movies on my computer. Women do not think in those terms. They are able to live much more in the moment instead of trying to put every relationship into a logical construct.

 

Women go by how they feel. They are attracted to a man, they can act on it. If he does something that makes her feel bad, they forget about it. Just like you. If a woman started trying to categorize you based on when you had sex after which date after what commitment after what was said etc etc instead of just assuming that you kissed a girl when you were attracted and had the opportunity - then you would realize how ridiculous this categorization is.

 

So what you are saying is that women have no self control and just do whatever feels best at the time. You are the one who said it not me.

[Woggle]

I mean look - if you go to a nightclub and you see a girl kissing every single guy in the club and then screaming, "I want to take home the hottest guy here and screw his brains out tonight!" then yea, that woman probably is not going to want to be your monogamous GIRLFRIEND at THAT TIME. The irony is, 6 months later, the woman now wants a boyfriend, and she is the cute girl you have a crush on in your class and take out on dates. Thats simply the reality here just like there are times in your life when you masturbate to pornography or feel like going to a strip club and there are times when you want a more emotional connection with a girlfriend. And when a woman like the above meets you in the library and wants you to be her boyfriend she understands the judgement against her and therefore wont ever tell you about that night she had in the club 6 months earlier. Evey woman here knows what I am talking about it - its only the men that will disagree with me here.

 

A woman who likes to go to clubs and take home random men most likely would not stay interested in a commited relationship anyway and will find it confining. From what you say probably think the man should tolerate it even if she does cheat because that is probably her spreading her wings or something. It's amazing the crap that men are told to tolerate or else we are controlling sexists but if a man looks at porn once he is the scum of the earth who betrayed his woman.

[lamaman3]

No, what I mean is that a woman taking home a random guy from a club is not that much different from you looking at porn. The difference is, that most men when they are horny dont have the luxury of easily finding a girl for sex while women do. My point is - that just because you spent a weekend looking at porn of 2 girls on one guy dosent mean that you also wouldnt want a committed relationship. Its the same with women. You have a complicated range of sexuality - you arent just a nice neutered asexual guy or a horny animal that just wants to screw everything at all times - its more complex than that and its the same exact thing for women. But since men insist on categorizing women into two categories, they know how to play that role and hide the night at the club from you just like alot of men dont tell women that they look at porn.

 

If a woman knows you wont judge her she will open up much more to you.

[lamaman3]

A woman who likes to go to clubs and take home random men most likely would not stay interested in a commited relationship anyway and will find it confining. From what you say probably think the man should tolerate it even if she does cheat because that is probably her spreading her wings or something. It's amazing the crap that men are told to tolerate or else we are controlling sexists but if a man looks at porn once he is the scum of the earth who betrayed his woman.

 

To answer your question - when I am with a woman I worry about how she is treating me when we are together - I do not worry about the possibility of her cheating on me - I have better things to do with my time than be paranoid that she flirted with so and so. If she is throwing other men in my face than that is just disrespectful - but otherwise - its something that I dont waste my time being "fearful" about. The fact of the matter is being jealous is a sign of a low value male and such a male will be judged for this by women.

 

So people like you and AO will say - "so women will judge us for this and that but we cant judge them1?" - Life isnt fair - you can either be right and judge women, or you can play the game and GET women. You can pick for yourself.

[lamaman3]

So what you are saying is that women have no self control and just do whatever feels best at the time. You are the one who said it not me.

 

Some women choose to exercise self control, some act on their feelings, but they are all guided by their feelings.

[lamaman3]

 

The fact that you cling to the fallacy that male insecurity drives down the value of promiscuous women signifies your agenda. It's competition and territoriality which makes promiscuous women less valuable to men.

 

EXACTLY. The more territorial you are, the more you are scared of competition. When a woman likes sex and unabashedly expresses her attraction to other men - you are afraid of being "cheated" on because there is another guy out there who is better looking than you, better in bed, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

Use your brain for a second... why would I be insecure about a woman who slept with 50 guys and not a woman who slept with 10?

 

Use your brain for a second. Why should an arbitrary number of men a woman has been with determine what she has to offer you? If its 10 she has alot to offer you, if its 12 she has a little less to offer you, if its 20 than she has nothing to offer you. If she slept with x guy on the first date she is promiscuous. If she wanted to but held back until the third date then she is no longer promiscuous and once again has things to offer you. If they slept together in a bed she has alot to offer you, if she did it in a car in a parking lot she no longer has anything to offer you. If she was in a relationship for 2 years she has alot to offer you, but then she had a one night stand when she broke up so she no longer has anything to offer you, but this other girl had a boyfriend for a month and slept with him but never had a one night stand so does she have something to offer you or not?

 

Do you see how incredibly non-sensical this all is? Women have a range of experiences like I mentioned above - but instead of recognizing that alot of men think that there are either madonnas or whores, promiscuous or not instead of just human females having a range of sexual feelings and experiences just like men - it comes down to a primitive urge not to raise someone elses child which is what all your jealousy and judgements come down to - a woman who loves sex means she might leave you for another guy whereas a "non-promiscuous" women is going to love you unconditionally forever just like your mommy did (lol). Its all BS which is why women learn from a very early age to LIE about the number of sex partners they had and their previous experiences. Every woman on here will back me up on this and its only the men who will disagree. Why do YOU think that is?

[Woggle]

I don't play the game and I get women and have gotten them in the past. It's funny how after my divorce I woke up and took the blinders and then I found a quality woman. I used to think like how you think men should think and all I got for it was grief and drama.

[lamaman3]

The answer to your question is Evolutionary Biology.

 

Nearly every female that has to put large amounts of energy into raising offspring has a biological imperative to be selective when choosing mates. Especially in primates where the child takes years, and teamwork to raise successfully.

 

It makes clear biological sense for a man to see a promiscuous woman as being diseased or not right.

 

FALSE.

 

If you read the book Sperm Wars you would understand that evolutionary biology has compelled women to be programmed to have men COMPETE for her - many times by sleeping with multiple men at the same time. This is the reason women evolved hidden ovulation as oppossed to other mammals (so you wont control them when they are ovulating and they can control who is the one that gets to impregnate them. That is because the highest value men are the ones who are not as likely to settle down with them, (george cloony and bradd pitt) but they need a provider like you to actually take care of the child and protect her. Get impregnated by a lover and taken care of by a provider. All women understand this dichotomy and for you to think that a woman like this is abnormal and diseased ignores the fact that by the sheer fact of you and every other mans programmed JEALOUSY and FEAR of being cheated on shows that on an instinctual level you understand this dynamic very well and are aware that a very large segment of females are capable of it and understand it as well.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Having some men on this thread who are extremely articulate, good thinkers and who don't express fear and need to control women is wonderful. Thank you, guys.

[lamaman3]

I don't play the game and I get women and have gotten them in the past. It's funny how after my divorce I woke up and took the blinders and then I found a quality woman. I used to think like how you think men should think and all I got for it was grief and drama.

 

Sorry, I'm not really understanding you could you be more specific?

[Yamaha]

you can play the game and GET women

 

Since your a player it stands to reason why you wouldn't judge their actions as that would get in the way of your objective.

[GoodOnPaper]

I mean look - if you go to a nightclub and you see a girl kissing every single guy in the club and then screaming, "I want to take home the hottest guy here and screw his brains out tonight!" then yea, that woman probably is not going to want to be your monogamous GIRLFRIEND at THAT TIME. The irony is, 6 months later, the woman now wants a boyfriend, and she is the cute girl you have a crush on in your class and take out on dates. Thats simply the reality here just like there are times in your life when you masturbate to pornography or feel like going to a strip club and there are times when you want a more emotional connection with a girlfriend. And when a woman like the above meets you in the library and wants you to be her boyfriend she understands the judgement against her and therefore wont ever tell you about that night she had in the club 6 months earlier. Evey woman here knows what I am talking about it - its only the men that will disagree with me here.

 

So what's the stronger physical attraction -- the one for the hottest guy at the club or the one for the boyfriend?

[Woggle]

Having some men on this thread who are extremely articulate, good thinkers and who don't express fear and need to control women is wonderful. Thank you, guys.

 

So wanting a faithful and honest woman means I want to control her?

[lamaman3]

So what's the stronger physical attraction -- the one for the hottest guy at the club or the one for the boyfriend?

 

Look - if you are asking this kind of question it means you probably see yourself in the role of the boyfriend and are worried about whether your gf is secretly masturbating to her ONS and whether she is attracted enough to you etc.

 

Once you ask that you have already lost. Look, we are here trying to make some meaningful emotional and sexual experiences out of things programmed into us through evolution. When you get horny, when you feel in love with a girl when you get jealous - all these emotions are programmed into you for evolutionarry reasons - it dosent mean we cant enjoy experiences like falling in love - but it is helpful to look at them in context. When you are in love and then get jealous of the girl because she flirted with a guy - its all because of evolution - because you are jealous that he will sleep with her and shell get pregnant with his baby instead of hers - and she knows that you will see that and feel more protective of her and make more of an effort for precisely this reason - not because she is a "TRASHY HOEBAG SLUT PROMISCUOUS ETC" - evolution will cause you to feel certain things for certain reasons.

 

You need to learn to get past that and look at the big picture. Enjoy emotional connection and understand why you feel jealousy and whats behind men obsessing over this partner and that number and this situation etc.

 

By adopting that attitude - you automatically become the highest value male you can be - because someone like JFK, and george clooney and bradd pitt dont spend their time worrying about when their girlfriend did this or if she likes that guy and is going to cheat on them - because they are so confident of their high value - logically, when you are NOT confident and JEALOUS you lower your value - so when you STOP worrying about that and instead of worrying abuot what your girlfriend did before she met you or what she does when she is not with you YOU concentrate on your mission as a MAN - to invent, succeed professionally, academically, materially, athletically etc. - this will turn you, a regular guy, into having the attraction of a Bradd Pitt to women while you leave the Untouchable Fires of the world to sit and flame "hoebags" on the internet because they "OMG MIGHT CHEAT!".

 

Understand?

[Untouchable_Fire]

Oh, wow,another 'enlightened' man who can accurately "guess" what I meant in a post-though the words were never there. Wow, I'd love that talent.

I'm not judging anyone, not one bit, if you don't like casual sex, and don't pursue them, you have every right to pursue people who value the same things as you. On more than one most, you have actively stated that women who participate in fwbs are more likely to cheat, "early and often" you said. As I requested in that post, where's your evidence aside from your bitterness? You know, one person doesn't count towards an accurate, rounded study....

As I stated in the previous post at the very top, every person has the right to their opinion and their beliefs to live their life according to them. And I'm most certainly not the only person who believes your posts are verging on shoving your opinion down people's throats. I like to think I made a valid post, which picked up on the arguments used by other posters, and put my opinion on it. That's just my opinion, and my beliefs. You don't have to agree, but likewise, I definitely don't have to agree with you either.

 

You can't have it both ways... you can't judge my opinions and feelings then turn around and say you don't want others to judge you.

 

In my opinion people who are willing to enter FWB type relationships do cheat... with great regularity. There is no study to prove it. It's my opinion based on experience. I believe that I explained my reasoning for this very well. If you don't agree that's fine.

[lamaman3]

faithful is a euphemism for - I'll do everything to make sure you are not allowing any other men access to your vagina because I have this feeling programmed into me from millions of years ago evolution that makes me fear raising another mans child. So yes, logically such a desire is nonsensical. Now everyone knows that we are programmed to be jealous and relationships are to a certain extent built for reproduction whether we consciously want it or not and even though we use them today primarily for the emotional connection (since we no longer have arranged marriage for the express purpose of raising a family) - so yes we cant just disregard this which is why if a woman throws another man in your face than you should not put up with that. But the idea of "worrying" that a woman will cheat on you or even thinking about it is A) useless, because if a woman wanted she can cheat on you multiple times evvery single day and you would never ever know about it and B) is a reflection of low value because the more confident and high value you think you are, the more you realize other men dont compare to you and women are more worried about YOU cheating on them. You will always rather want a woman to worry about you CHEATING than vica versa because it means she is HIGHLY attracted to you and understands that other women also think the same and will be fighting for you and trying to tempt you.

 

The fact that men on here are so FOCUSED on women cheating rather than having their gf's and wives worried about them cheating is reflective of the dynamic of their relationship and who controls it.

[Woggle]

So relationships are just one big game to you. If a woman has to worry about me cheating in order to stay attracted I do not want her.

[lamaman3]

You can't have it both ways... you can't judge my opinions and feelings then turn around and say you don't want others to judge you.

 

He isnt judging your actions - he is saying you shouldnt be judgemental of others (judging your judgementalness?). If you do not want to have sex outside of marriage or whatever he has no problem with that or how you live your life- so he is saying dont have a problem with him if he wants to have a FWB. Thats not you judging each others actions - thats you JUDGING his actions and his opinion that you should mind your own business and worry about yourself.

 

This is like someone saying "gay sex is evil" and a gay guy responding, "dont judge me" is 2 people each judging each other.

[lamaman3]

So relationships are just one big game to you. If a woman has to worry about me cheating in order to stay attracted I do not want her.

 

No she does not have to WORRY about you cheating in order to be attracted. You got the order wrong - she is worried as a natural consequence of BEING HIGHLY ATTRACTED. If a woman was married to Derek Jeter naturally she is going to understand that he will have many more opportunities to cheat than you do and will be more cognizant of the possibility of him cheating than you because of his higher value. Therefore, if you are the one worrying about a woman cheating and the possibility that you will never even crosses her mind means that there is an attraction imbalance there.

[GoodOnPaper]

Look - if you are asking this kind of question it means you probably see yourself in the role of the boyfriend and are worried about whether your gf is secretly masturbating to her ONS and whether she is attracted enough to you etc.

 

There is no seeing about it -- the boyfriend role is all that I could ever hope to play. If you've read my earlier posts, you'll know that I have never attracted anyone for casual sex. However, I am great at being the "relationship guy". I am simply trying to answer the following question: Am I a dupe for thinking that a woman's attraction to a man for relationship purposes could ever trump the attraction that she feels for a man that she would want a ONS with?

[lamaman3]

There is no seeing about it -- the boyfriend role is all that I could ever hope to play. If you've read my earlier posts, you'll know that I have never attracted anyone for casual sex. However, I am great at being the "relationship guy". I am simply trying to answer the following question: Am I a dupe for thinking that a woman's attraction to a man for relationship purposes could ever trump the attraction that she feels for a man that she would want a ONS with?

 

A) You are wrong - you can BECOME the guy women would want for casual sex. You just have to understand how female attraction works. If you want more info on this send me a PM.

 

B) No of course you are not a Dupe. The sheer question of whether you are a Dupe is simply a reflection of your own insecurity. Does Bradd Pitt sit and worry about whether Angelina Jolie sees him as less attractive than a guy she had a ONS with 4 years ago? Of course not, that would be absurd and ridiculous. The most attractive thing you could possibly do as a man is to NOT WORRY ABOUT ANY OTHER MAN. If you truly adopt this attitude you will attract women like white on rice. Women live in the moment - so if you are taking my advice and acting like a REAL MAN WITH A MISSION instead of a scared little boy whose worst fear is that one day some guy will put his piece of skin into your gf's piece of skin for 15 minutes or did so a year before you met her - then your GF will be obsessed with you. If you start becoming jealous and exhibitting low value behavior than your gf will start to fantasize about other more attractive men. Attraction is fluid, especially for women. Got it?

[lamaman3]

There is no seeing about it -- the boyfriend role is all that I could ever hope to play. If you've read my earlier posts, you'll know that I have never attracted anyone for casual sex. However, I am great at being the "relationship guy". I am simply trying to answer the following question: Am I a dupe for thinking that a woman's attraction to a man for relationship purposes could ever trump the attraction that she feels for a man that she would want a ONS with?

 

Goodonpaper - I read some of your previous posts and understand your issue. You seem to think that the attraction for a ONS is much higher than for a an LTR. Attraction is fluid though. A woman can be highly attracted to a man for hours and then he says one thing that will turn her off completely. Even a woman can be highly attracted to a man for years and in a week he can do something that will turn her off completely! Yes its true! Which is why wondering if women see this guy or that guy as more attractive is a bit pointless. The second point is - alot of women are programmed to want to sleep with a hot rockstar or movie start of course this is true - but alot of women, the same ones even, are also programmed to want relationships - its all evolutionary - so some of them will seek this out or that out depending on how they feel. For most women id imagine they go through phases. Many start to look more for marriage LTR's as they get older because they have a ticking biological clock but this is by no means a rule and if a woman is attracted enough to a man she may want a serious LTR when she is young - or even just be more predisposed to one.