Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[sally4sara]

So have at it, people: Define "FWB" or "F-buddy" or whatever term you please.

 

Someone who is a friend. Someone I found appealing for spending time with and having sex but who also possessed qualities that I don't want in a serious partner. How we spent time or where we would go was not really limited in any way to specific activities or places. Where the limitations came in was:

 

They didn't get to know my son. I didn't make life plans with them in mind. I didn't mix my finances with them or move in with them. I didn't talk about the future with them as though they were a part of that future. I also didn't let them whine and guilt me into a relationship I already knew was not going to be right for me in the long run. When I met someone with more potential for a successful relationship, I would tell the FWB I'd met someone and we would stop having sex. They would still be a friend. I did not keep it a secret from anyone I dated.

 

When I was younger, I had let the kind of people I would now consider FWB material, guilt me into a relationships. I knew less then about what kind of partner I needed for a successful relationship. They would want a relationship and back then, I felt validated by their want for a relationship.

After I learned more about what I needed in a serious partner and what I had to offer in a relationship, I no longer needed that validation. I stopped letting relationships just HAPPEN to me. This crap about women not be able to have sex without getting attached isn't so much about being female as it is the mindset of the woman being pursued by the man who then decides whether or not to stick around. I realized it was also ME who could choose to stick around or not AND I could decide what qualities I would and wouldn't stick around for.

What I see is that women are more likely to get caught up in the need to be chosen than a man typically will. Men generally feel validated more simply by a woman choosing to have sex with him whether she wants more than that or not. So once he has achieved that, he may or may not decide to stick around. He may feel further validated if she starts pressuring him for a relationship, but even if she doesn't he still feels validated by having attained the sex.

Who gets caught up in a FWB mess is not a gender thing to me. Its about who craves external validation the most. You might still want or enjoy companionship and sexual intimacy, but to become invested in someone beyond that should be determined by more than just sexual attraction and the ability to tolerate their company for a while.

Edited October 26, 2010 by sally4sara

[EasyHeart]

You haven't read the posts by the double standard brigade on here apparently.

I was referring to men I know, i.e. my male friends in real life.

 

You can't "know" anyone on an internet message board.

[EasyHeart]

No, their relationships were as I described.

What you described was people who lied or miscommunicated with one another.

[EasyHeart]

Someone who is a friend. Someone I found appealing for spending time with and having sex but who also possessed qualities that I don't want in a serious partner. How we spent time or where we would go was not really limited in any way to specific activities or places. Where the limitations came in was:

 

They didn't get to know my son. I didn't make life plans with them in mind. I didn't mix my finances with them or move in with them. I didn't talk about the future with them as though they were a part of that future. I also didn't let them whine and guilt me into a relationship I already knew was not going to be right for me in the long run. When I met someone with more potential for a successful relationship, I would tell the FWB I'd met someone and we would stop having sex. They would still be a friend. I did not keep it a secret from anyone I dated.

Well, if that's what a FWB is, then pretty much every woman I've ever dated (and all of the women that I dated before I was 35) were FWBs!!!

[Woggle]

Oh, yeah. That's right. Men NEVER cheat on women.

 

Why is this excuse used every time a man wants to avoid being cheated on? Does it somehow make it okay when women cheat.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Why do you have the idea that all women who have been in a FWB situation would cheat if they were in a relationship??? Is this from your own experience? Because otherwise it's not really a logical conclusion to come to.

I know plenty of men AND women who have had casual sex and later been involved in a relationship where they didn't cheat...

 

Yes that has been my experience.

 

It is actually a reasonable assumption to make for several reasons. First, It shows a strong ability to compartmentalize feelings. It displays a disregard and casual attitude towards sex... like it doesn't matter who you sleep with. It also makes it very clear that she is not willing to wait for someone who worthwhile.

 

 

 

 

Actually, this in inacurate. What you mean is "if you say no.....you go up in MY respect (for you)". The individual's self respect doesn't change. That individual may have different values depending on the choice they make but just because one person is happy to have fun without emotional investment and another isn't doesn't make them worth less. That's your value judgement not theirs.

I don't understand your objection to people choosing to have sex with each other but not wanting a relationship, nor do I understand your 'not good enough' criteria. You're quite right that anyone in a FWB situation has decided the other person is not relationship material - for them. What's wrong with that? Both people want sex from each other and nothing more. It doesn't mean the person isn't great relationship material for someone else. It's not about being 'good enough' or not, its about meeting each others needs at that time.

Lets turn this around for a second and imagine two people meet and they really like each other but don't find each other physically attractive (it could be a man and a woman or two men or two women). These two people get to know each other and become great friends and get a lot from that friendship, but they have zero interest in having sex with each other and therefore don't start a relationship.

Does that mean that they don't consider one another 'good enough' for a relationship? Or does it just mean that they are fulfillng one particular need for each other - namely, friendship.

To me, what it says is that the overall criteria for a full blown relationship hasn't been met ie that you like the person a lot AND you are physically attracted to them. Without the physical attraction you're just friends, without the 'like each other a lot' you're FWB.

 

Seriously... I'm not going to argue with you. All I'm going to say is that your a very nice lady... but you have zero understanding of male sexuality.

 

We can't have a serious discussion about this until you break out of that female centric POV.

 

I really get where your coming from... but if you can't understand how guys see this... your literally missing half the story.

 

I see sex as something that CAN be very special, however; I also view sex in two different ways. Firstly, sex is something special that occues between two people who are in love.

Sex is something very special two people can share, but it can still be something that can be taken more lightly, too. If I have the right chemistry with a guy, I am very horny due to not having sex in years or months, and me and the man like and have mutual respect for one another ( as people), then I do not see a problem with using sex as a tool for masturbation.

Masturbating is not good enough for me to sustain me for years, and do not want to be in a serious relationship for a good 2 years or so. It is noamyl and healthy for women to crave sex, and SOME women CAN view sex as two entireley different things; one is a way to form a special bond with the right man, and sex can also be used as a tool to satisfy our NATURAL physical desires.

Lastly, friends with benifits does not necessarily mean that the girl is simply not good enough for the guy to date, and is therefore just a sex partner; women want sex from men they find sexually attractive, and not all women want to wait for a serious realtionship to do this.

I have never cheated before. I would be a loyal and caring partner. I never crave sleeping with other hotter men whilst I am in relationships. Although I also want to have sex casually at this point in my life.

It does not mean I will make a bad girlfriend, just because I like to satisfy my normal, healthy desire to have sex whilst I am not in a relationship.

 

Leigh... I know that for you sex without love is just sex.

 

What is sex without love to the guy your having sex with? Do you know?

[Woggle]

I think I agree with you, but what does "casual sex" mean? Does it apply to any sexual relationship that isn't headed towards marriage? If I'm not interested in a relationship potentially leading to marriage (because I'm too young, too busy, emotionally unavailable) and I have a short-term (eg 6-12 month) relationship with someone, is that "casual sex"?

 

It is not a numbers game. It is the mentality a woman has towards sex and relationships. I know this is harsh but there is saying that says you can't make a ho a housewife and that is what it means. In most cases you can't take a woman who views sex as a sport and then all of a sudden turn her into a loyal and faithful partner.

[donnamaybe]

I was referring to men I know, i.e. my male friends in real life.

 

You can't "know" anyone on an internet message board.

No, but people IRL are more apt to hide certain undesirable or hypocritical traits, such as the "double standard." Most of the men on LS don't care about pretending they're better than they really are.

[donnamaybe]

Well, if that's what a FWB is, then pretty much every woman I've ever dated (and all of the women that I dated before I was 35) were FWBs!!!

And of every one of those women you dated, you knew at the very beginning that you weren't interested in a R with them and wanted only NSA sex and friendship?

[Untouchable_Fire]

You can get to know a woman's sexual history only from what she would tell you. That is why it is irrelevant to consider the history as reality. Most mature women are aware of men's expectations and men's way of thinking about the history. Therefore, they know what is the right way to present themselves.

 

I've encountered 2 such women just this year. It takes a lot of energy to hide yourself... only true sociopaths can do it forever.

 

I'm not surprised that the women here think it a badge of awesomeness to be a liar. In other cultures it seems you just be who you are and if a guy has a problem with it... let him move on.

 

Leigh there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way you are. Posters here are overly judgmental of these relationships because of the pain they have suffered. What you are hearing is FEAR. The world is changing and roles for men and women are in the process of being redefined. As with any change there is pain and struggle involved. You WILL have everything you want.

 

Fear of what? Being cheated on... again... and again?

 

I've already identified the issue, the women I was dating. I switched dating pools and as far as I can tell.... problem solved.

 

I don't see gender roles as all that different from 1990 when I was a kid. So... what's changing?

 

Well, the reason I got into that FWB situation was because my last relationship ended on a note that made me kind of sick and tired of the whole relationship thing. I had met an old friend from way back, and we got together and played music a few times and had fun together. He knew where I was emotionally, and I also made sure he knew that, even if I were eventually ready to get involved with someone, that he just wasn't going to be more than a friend. After close to six months of no sex at all ('cause I'm just not into screwing around with whoever is willing and not hideous ) he called me one night when I was going out with the girls and told me I should come over on my way home. I reminded him I didn't want a R with him, but he said he didn't want one either. I told him, "Well, it has been awhile..." (for me, six months is a LONG time to go without sex ). So it was on. It was very convenient for me. We lived only about a mile and half away from each other, and we were friends. Unfortunately, like I said, he fell in love with me and I ended up hurting him which is why I vowed to never get into that kind of situation again. It wasn't because of some sort of perceived lack of respect for myself. After all, the whole thing was on my terms, and I hadn't lied to anyone. I just felt bad for him and didn't want to be the cause of that kind of pain for anyone else.

So - there's my FWB story. We agreed to no strings sex with each other only, unless one or the other of us became involved with someone else. Of course it would have been over then. You can't be forming a relationship with someone while having sex with someone else. At least, I can't.

 

That is a relationship... not and FWB situation.

[donnamaybe]

That is a relationship... not and FWB situation.

Yeah, right. Ask the guy in question who wanted more and didn't get it and cried into the telephone.

 

Don't you dare define my relationships for me. I know what they are because I have lived them. You don't know jack about 'em.

 

Then again, I"m not surprised at the presumptuousness.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Yes that has been my experience.

 

Seriously... I'm not going to argue with you. All I'm going to say is that your a very nice lady... but you have zero understanding of male sexuality.

 

We can't have a serious discussion about this until you break out of that female centric POV.

 

I really get where your coming from... but if you can't understand how guys see this... your literally missing half the story.

 

 

 

 

 

Haha! You are talking about Little Tiger?!?! She clearly presents herself as having a very fulfilling and evolved relationship with a MAN as well as a balanced and deep understanding of love, sex, and relationships - one that doesn't even include the denigration of the millions of men with whom she is NOT in a relationship! Imagine!

 

Aside from yourself and a couple of the other guys here who are terrified of women who are not demonstrably under society's, or mens control, I bet that

male and female posters here on LS would agree.

 

Untouchable_Fire, as I have said before, I am pleased for you that you have found what you need in a woman as long as you are not abusive towards her. They type of insecurity that you demonstrate here does, sadly often result in abusive behavior.

 

I understand that you have had bad experiences with women and that you're (that contraction contains an apostrophe - sorry, a pet peeve of mine) the type of individual who will extrapolate those few instances without, of course, any accountability for your own part in them, to include all women from your culture in general. Your needs and perceptions regarding gender relations are so defined by fear, ignorance and bigotry that they really have no bearing on gender relations among the rest of us.

[LiveWell]

Well, because we had the "talk" about entering into the sex part of it and knowing full well it wouldn't lead to a relationship other than mere friends, I considered it FWB. This was a "friendship" wherein I gained more "benefits" than a friendship would imply.

 

That's the reasoning for my definition of FWB.

 

 

FWB is such a lame euphemism in the first place.

 

Why not refer to such relationships as what they really are?

 

"Sex in a continuing relationship between two people, one or both of whom are too emotionally dysfunctional/scarred to be ready to entertain the notion of an emotionally full and authentic relationship with each other."

 

Yeah I like that better I think.

[LiveWell]

I know lots of people who have casual sexual relationships involving NSA sex, but no friendship.

 

And if they are adults, i.e. past their early 20's and beyond the "pure experimentation" stage of their sexuality, in all likelihood most if not all of these "people that you know" would be able to present histories of a string of failed and dysfunctional relationships.

[utterer of lies]

"Sex in a continuing relationship between two people, one or both of whom are too emotionally dysfunctional/scarred to be ready to entertain the notion of an emotionally full and authentic relationship with each other."

 

Emotional dysfunction or scars are not a prerequisite for an FWB-type relationship. Just because this the case for you doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.

[EasyHeart]

And of every one of those women you dated, you knew at the very beginning that you weren't interested in a R with them and wanted only NSA sex and friendship?

No, because I was interested in a relationship with them, I didn't want NSA sex, and I was looking for much more than friendship. And in each case, we did have a relationship, we were sexually exclusive, and I considered her my girlfriend. I also had absolutely no desire or intention of even considering marriage with her, and told her exactly that.

 

That's called "dating".

[LiveWell]

Leigh there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way you are. Posters here are overly judgmental of these relationships because of the pain they have suffered. What you are hearing is FEAR. The world is changing and roles for men and women are in the process of being redefined. As with any change there is pain and struggle involved. You WILL have everything you want.

 

 

LOL yes the world is changing, or maybe not so much?

 

Look at the last sentence above, posted by a female Love Shacker to another one. If there is another more clear cut manifestation of the "modern" female's completely unearned sense of entitlement, I haven't seen it.

[donnamaybe]

LOL yes the world is changing, or maybe not so much?

 

Look at the last sentence above, posted by a female Love Shacker to another one. If there is another more clear cut manifestation of the "modern" female's completely unearned sense of entitlement, I haven't seen it.

And just WTF is that supposed to mean? How do you know that all she wants isn't merely a decent life and a nice family? "unearned sense of entitlement..."

[LiveWell]

In that case, do you think they were really FWBs, or did they just miscommunicate? Or maybe one of them lied or mislead the other?

 

I'll bet if we talked to people like this, one would say, "Yeah, we were FWBs" and the other would say "We dated, but he/she wouldn't commit".

 

 

The obvious problem is "FWB" is a meaningless euphemism, it totally avoids the core of the relationship, however you define it, which is that the two people are having sex with each other. Therefore it "means" what anyone wants it to mean. It's not a "relationship" (according to some), yet the sex involved is not "casual" (according to others), etc etc.

 

Let's not speak in euphemisms so much if we want to encourage mutual understanding.

 

It's some form of a sexual relationship (that word again) between two people, one or both of whom is unwilling or unable to incorporate that sexual aspect of their personality into a full emotional relationship with the other person. It is frequently (although not always) a result of one or both participants being subject to serious emotional "baggage" or fallout from failed or dysfunctional prior relationships.

[donnamaybe]

No, because I was interested in a relationship with them, I didn't want NSA sex, and I was looking for much more than friendship. And in each case, we did have a relationship, we were sexually exclusive, and I considered her my girlfriend. I also had absolutely no desire or intention of even considering marriage with her, and told her exactly that.

 

That's called "dating".

Then it's NOT FWB like you stated. It's dating.

 

First you have a "friend" and you want more ("benefits") from that friendship that a normal friendship implies.

 

Friend With Benefits

[LiveWell]

And just WTF is that supposed to mean? How do you know that all she wants isn't merely a decent life and a nice family? "unearned sense of entitlement..."

 

 

Very simple, donnamaybe. But first, I suggest you tone down the volume and shrillness you bring to these discussions because all you're doing by being so incessantly and provocatively "loud" is signaling your own insecurity.

 

The sentence I was referring to, if you just had read my post, was this one:

 

You WILL have everything you want.

 

 

Someone "will" have everything they want....simply because someone else decides that they should?

 

No, she WON'T have everything she wants, because that is not humanly possible, in the real world.

 

When someone professes to someone else that "they will have everything they want in life," they're either delusional, lying, or perhaps a little of both.

[EasyHeart]

Then it's NOT FWB like you stated. It's dating.

 

First you have a "friend" and you want more ("benefits") from that friendship that a normal friendship implies.

 

Friend With Benefits

RIGHT!!!!

 

That's my point: people in this thread are screaming at each other over the term "FWB" when they are using it in completely different ways. If people stopped being defensive (and offensive), my guess that 90% of us would agree with each other.

[EasyHeart]

Someone "will" have everything they want....simply because someone else decides that they should?

 

No, she WON'T have everything she wants, because that is not humanly possible, in the real world.

 

When someone professes to someone else that "they will have everything they want in life," they're either delusional, lying, or perhaps a little of both.

I don't think the statement was intended as a prediction or entitlement. I read it as being aspirational.

[donnamaybe]

Very simple, donnamaybe. But first, I suggest you tone down the volume and shrillness you bring to these discussions because all you're doing by being so incessantly and provocatively "loud" is signaling your own insecurity.

You can actually HEAR me? Wow. That's quite the skill.

 

Someone "will" have everything they want....simply because someone else decides that they should?

 

No, she WON'T have everything she wants, because that is not humanly possible, in the real world.

 

When someone professes to someone else that "they will have everything they want in life," they're either delusional, lying, or perhaps a little of both.

Who are you to decide that what someone else wants is out of their reach? Many people are very happy with simple things in life which are quite easily attainable.

 

Perhaps if you tone down the presumptuousness of some of your posts, it might help the discussion.

[LiveWell]

Emotional dysfunction or scars are not a prerequisite for an FWB-type relationship. Just because this the case for you doesn't mean it's the case for everyone.

 

What makes you think that it applies to me, personally, at all?

 

I never stated I've ever personally been in a one of these types of relationships myself. I have however observed other participants, and I have further data based on what I can observe of various people posting here.

 

Your screen name is "uttereroflies." Doesn't that "say it all?"