Guys, do you respect women who have fbuddy relationships? Is that a "low-grade"chic?

[donnamaybe]

But wait. She did ask the question, "Can a woman really engage in this type of relationship for a long time without catching feelings?" so yes. We should be examining my type of FWB relationship as well as I wasn't the one who caught the feelings - he was - thus, my answer to that question would be "Yes." I would never start an FWB relationship with someone with which I hoped for more.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Ah, gotcha. She approached the whole thing as if every woman in an FWB situation is some sort of victim of herself. You're right. That wasn't my situation at all, but it still WAS an FWB situation. Just of my choosing.

However, since FWB is being discussed, it really should be viewed from all sides otherwise the discussion is invalid and excludes all the aspects of FWB and what it means for different people.

 

Eh... Ok... I think that is where the disconnect in this conversation is coming from.

 

FWB situations are really touchy. I can understand where in your position you want to just believe the guy can handle his feelings and proceed forward, but on some level you can't be Ok with just wrecking him.

 

It's the #1 reason I've always held back from this type of thing.

 

I'm simply not willing to risk hurting a woman like that just because I want sex now. Instead I'll wait another 3 weeks until I find someone I could take seriously.

[stillafool]

LOL yes the world is changing, or maybe not so much?

 

Look at the last sentence above, posted by a female Love Shacker to another one. If there is another more clear cut manifestation of the "modern" female's completely unearned sense of entitlement, I haven't seen it.

 

That is called Support. Ever heard of it?

 

Why is all the bitterness here coming from men like you? Women here have been hurt, rejected and passed over but they support each other and get over it. Yet the men here when rejected, cry foul and blame the entire female gender. Now that's your 'sense of entitlment'.

[donnamaybe]

Eh... Ok... I think that is where the disconnect in this conversation is coming from.

 

FWB situations are really touchy. I can understand where in your position you want to just believe the guy can handle his feelings and proceed forward, but on some level you can't be Ok with just wrecking him.

Absolutely not! Which is why, at the point he fell in love with me, I determined I would NEVER get into a situation like that again. I knew I wouldn't get hurt. It never occurred to me that he would, and I was VERY sorry when he was.

[LiveWell]

My husband was someone I slated as a FWB initially. He didn't meet my son for almost a year.

 

 

This establishes that your FWB wasn't "really" an FWB. As is the case for the vast majority of emotionally healthy women.

 

If you get into a sexual relationship which is supposedly an FWB, but in reality it has the potential to evolve into a full fledged relationship, including in your case marrying the guy, then it was never an FWB to begin with. It was you agreeing to have sex with a guy to perhaps get your rocks off, but also with the knowledge and hope that it could evolve into something more. And in this case--it did.

 

Congratulations.

[Anela]

That is called Support. Ever heard of it?

 

Why is all the bitterness here coming from men like you? Women here have been hurt, rejected and passed over but they support each other and get over it. Yet the men here when rejected, cry foul and blame the entire female gender. Now that's your 'sense of entitlment'.

 

I've noticed the same thing.

 

I've been through brief bouts of the "men are pigs" mindset, but I always come out of it... I've actually been feeling over the past year, that I wish I could go back and approach my relationships with the opposite sex, with as much confidence as I did when I was a child (and had sweet relationships with boys who were my friends, who were also attracted to me). I see where I've gone wrong in my own life, and am really appreciating certain guys from my past.

 

I turned down one boy, because of the way he asked me out, when my own self-esteem had hit rock bottom and I was trying to recover... my pride and my own fears, got in the way of seeing what I might normally have seen: that Mr. Cool was feeling just as nervous as I was, at that point.

[LiveWell]

It has nothing to do with fear, it has to do with the fact that such things can be confusing for children which is why many psychologists recommend against introducing casual dates to your children.

 

Not a "casual date". She specifically said they were her "friends."

 

Nice try though!

[Anela]

 

I turned down one boy, because of the way he asked me out, when my own self-esteem had hit rock bottom and I was trying to recover... my pride and my own fears, got in the way of seeing what I might normally have seen: that Mr. Cool was feeling just as nervous as I was, at that point.

 

Crap, I can't edit my post above, so I should add here that this is when certain issues I had, became worse, in my teens. Before that, I was very comfortable around boys - wary of their intentions, but more trusting in the goodness that I could see in them. God, I miss being that age, at times. Those boys I knew were the best.

It was when we moved over here, when I was faced with more attention than ever (due to my figure and my accent), and the guys who only wanted hook-ups, or sex within three dates or less, that I avoided them as much as I could.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Anela

[LiveWell]

That is called Support. Ever heard of it?

 

Yes and I am providing it. I agree with the sentiments expressed by the OP. I have been supporting them. They seem rather conventional of course but then I am a conventional sort of person.

 

 

Why is all the bitterness here coming from men like you?

 

LOL. Let's not get into the ad hominem personal attacks and stick with the discussion at hand. Please try anyway.

 

 

 

 

Women here have been hurt, rejected and passed over but they support each other and get over it.

 

Maybe you've posted this on the wrong thread?

 

No woman here who is advocating for FWBs or F buddy relationships is claiming in any way that they were damaged by them, on the contrary, they are stating that FWBs are generally a good thing for women to be involved in. I and some other people are simply stating that no, we don't agree that FWBs and Fbuddy relationships are such a good thing (for various reasons which we have been exploring).

 

If it is NOW your intent to claim that someone on this thread is a woman and has said she was hurt because she engaged in an FWB relationship or F buddy relationship, please point out who that is, and I will be more than glad to provide support to that person. (The only one who might possibly fit that description is the OP herself and I've certainly supported what I perceive her sentiment which is that FWBs are not such a good thing for women to involve themselves in.)

 

 

 

Yet the men here when rejected, cry foul and blame the entire female gender. Now that's your 'sense of entitlment'.

 

 

Well I don't know exactly what you're actually reading. Once again someone gets up on a soapbox making broad pronouncements about what they believe someone else stated on a thread without actually quoting anyone.

 

The issue is whether getting involved in an FWB is a good thing for women to do. OP's position was that it probably is not. I support that position.

 

Do you?

[sally4sara]

My husband was someone I slated as a FWB initially. He didn't meet my son for almost a year.

 

 

This establishes that your FWB wasn't "really" an FWB. As is the case for the vast majority of emotionally healthy women.

 

If you get into a sexual relationship which is supposedly an FWB, but in reality it has the potential to evolve into a full fledged relationship, including in your case marrying the guy, then it was never an FWB to begin with. It was you agreeing to have sex with a guy to perhaps get your rocks off, but also with the knowledge and hope that it could evolve into something more. And in this case--it did.

 

Congratulations.

 

Oh WHEW, because I was totally going to loose sleep without you're approval.

 

P.S. I screwed him on the first date AND payed the tab for us both.

[donnamaybe]

Oh WHEW, because I was totally going to loose sleep without you're approval.

 

P.S. I screwed him on the first date AND payed the tab for us both.

Leave it to s4s to bring things RIGHT back into perspective.

[Anela]

I know someone who is married to a man she slept with on their first date. They have one of those relationships that people envy, and have been together for nine years now (their happiness just seems to continue to grow).

[LiveWell]

Oh WHEW, because I was totally going to loose sleep without you're approval.

 

 

It's really not my wish that you lose any sleep, but where do you think I indicated my "approval"?

 

I simply congratulated you on your ability to morph a supposedly FWB relationship into something that I would hope is a far more healthy and successful way to relate to a member of the opposite sex. And I meant that sincerely.

 

That does not mean however that I necessarily "approve" of FWBs! In your case it led to marriage, again congratulations, but for most people, most of the time, it does not. You were lucky.

 

P.S. I screwed him on the first date AND payed the tab for us both.

 

 

Clearly you are a woman of substance.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Absolutely not! Which is why, at the point he fell in love with me, I determined I would NEVER get into a situation like that again. I knew I wouldn't get hurt. It never occurred to me that he would, and I was VERY sorry when he was.

 

Exactly what I'm saying.

 

I have some guys in my family and some loosely associated friends who are complete dirtbag type guys. So I know exactly the kind of guy I don't want to be.

[Anela]

LiveWell, what was that about s4s' husband not being so lucky?

And is he a man of substance, since he screwed her on the first date?

[flying]

You were lucky.

 

Or, he was.

 

Clearly you are a woman of substance.

 

[donnamaybe]

LiveWell, what was that about s4s' husband not being so lucky?

And is he a man of substance, since he screwed her on the first date?

And he makes comments about my posting style...

[fltc]

Are we just adults and SHOULD BE able to handle this decision?

 

let me say this before SOMEONE jumps on this the wrong way!!!!!

 

I'm not going to jump any way. I've been around for a very long time and I've gradually come to the realization that the world has changed (for the better or worse, who knows?)

 

I started dating years before the pill and women's fear of pregnancy usually overcame their desire for sex. The pill changed that, sex became as common as a handshake and then along came AIDS and once again.....

 

So my view of what's right and what's wrong may differ from most here but I do know this, what's right/wrong now will change again in a few years!

 

NOTE: For "right/wrong" read: Socially acceptable....

[LiveWell]

LiveWell, what was that about s4s' husband not being so lucky?

 

When sally bragged about screwing her now-husband on the first date, I first took it as a "serious" comment. If so, maybe her husband isn't as lucky as she was. Then it occurred to me that we don't really know what quality of a man she married, so maybe he was just as lucky, or luckier, than she was, to marry her. Ultimately I decided that maybe she was just being sarcastic/defensive/overly sensitive, but since we don't really know any details about how this FWB turned into a courtship turned into an actual marriage, it's impossible to say.

 

I guess she wasn't being sarcastic, she was actually seriously opining that the fact that she screwed her husband on the first date (and paid for both of them) says something positive about her. I'm not sure what that would be, given that the reason she screwed him on the first date was because at that time they were FWBs (according to her, now, anyway). Her paying for the date for BOTH of them actually implies something completely different, however--that it was SHE who was "courting" him, that at the time, he was the one who wanted a sex only relationship, and that she acquiesced to that with the hope that it would evolve into something more. If so, then it's only in restrospect that she's characterizing the relationship as FWB, because that put things on a more equal footing, moreso than saying "I chased him and put out sexually for him and even paid for his dinners until I persuaded him that it would be a good idea to perhaps get married to me, a single mom with a small child."

 

In any case, if she always had in mind that the relationship would perhaps evolve into something more than an FWB, which it in fact did, then from her perspective, IMO it shouldn't really be defined as an FWB in the first place, even if the man feels that it was.

 

To me, an FWB is just that: friends, sex, and that's the end of it. If you deliberately leave open the possibility that it could evolve into something more--which far more women than men are prone to do, IME--then it's a "relationship" just as valid as any other. The couple is in fact "dating", but the dates consist of "sex." Since having sex with the woman is the primary objective of most men when dating, all that FWB is, is a very efficient means for a man to date. It is still dating, but with all the extraneous "bs" stripped away. That is, the "bs" that women normally require of men before having sex with the man.

 

 

 

 

And is he a man of substance, since he screwed her on the first date?

 

Yes, he is.

[LiveWell]

Or, he was.

 

 

 

 

That's certainly a possibility.

[flying]

That's certainly a possibility.

 

Except that I suspect I mean this in a very different way than you do, LiveWell. In this and your previous incarnations, I'd say you have a tendency to over-interpret with insufficient data.

 

Instead of guessing this or that about sally4sara's intentions or those of her husband, and deciding who must have been "courting" whom, perhaps it would make more sense just to ask if that's relevant?

 

I suspect that her point was simply this: She saw him, at the time, as someone attractive that she wanted to have sex with. She isn't someone who expects a guy to pay, so she paid for dinner. They had sex. She enjoyed herself. Some time later, it became more, and they got married. She's quite happily married and says nice things about her husband and marriage; hence, he's a lucky guy. Because they have a happy relationship, not because he got his rocks off for free.

 

Interpreting what came in the interim is fruitless; far better just to ask her and go from that.

[theBrokenMuse]

Not a "casual date". She specifically said they were her "friends."

 

Nice try though!

Don't play ridiculous semantics games - A friend that you are sexually intimate with is not in the same category as a friend you do not. It is a person you are having NSA sex with and as such IS a casual sex partner which is exactly what a responsible parent does not introduce a child to for the reasons I stated... Nice try though

[Anela]

That is, the "bs" that women normally require of men before having sex with the man.

 

This is why so many women think that men are only looking for sex! (There's a post in the bitterness thread, about women looking for love, and men looking for sex.)

 

What is that BS, is an actual *relationship*, letting her know that he isn't only in it for her body? I'm getting off-topic here, I'm sorry, but there's no need to spend big bucks to get someone's attention. I know women who would be fine with a picnic somewhere, anything that doesn't cost much at all.. they tend to worry about the man paying for everything, but there are men who are insulted by the thought of women going "dutch" or paying for a date themselves.

 

Yes, he is.

 

Then why can't she be a woman of substance if she has sex on the first date. Or is that why you made the comment about sarcasm: you thought she was being sarcastic, so you responded in kind?

[Anela]

 

I suspect that her point was simply this: She saw him, at the time, as someone attractive that she wanted to have sex with. She isn't someone who expects a guy to pay, so she paid for dinner. They had sex. She enjoyed herself. Some time later, it became more, and they got married. She's quite happily married and says nice things about her husband and marriage; hence, he's a lucky guy. Because they have a happy relationship, not because he got his rocks off for free.

 

I would see him as a lucky guy, because of the above, as well.

[Untouchable_Fire]

That is called Support. Ever heard of it?

Why is all the bitterness here coming from men like you? Women here have been hurt, rejected and passed over but they support each other and get over it. Yet the men here when rejected, cry foul and blame the entire female gender. Now that's your 'sense of entitlment'.

 

We treat unsuccessful women very differently from how we treat unsuccessful men.

 

Support often comes with a huge helping of condescension. When I'm hurt, I need to rub some dirt on it and get back out on the field. It's the reason we are reticent to seek medical attention... and many other things. I have no interest in being labeled a crybaby or a weakling. Women are just as complicit in this mentality as men.

 

I've been playing love roulette most of my life... and just this year I've decided that the odds are not in my favor... so I'm taking my patronage elsewhere. That is what I'm entitled to... and what your so PO'ed about. I don't like your game, so I'm gone and I suggest the other guys walk away too. I think there are enough players, douchebags, and losers to keep you occupied the rest of your life... so you won't miss me... I promise.