advise on if I should make my daughter leave

[genie]

I have been divorced for 10 years and raising two daughters. I have an 18 year old and a 12 year old. The 18 year old has been rebelious since the divorce. I love her very much, but I am to the point I think I want her to go live with her dad. I have struggled very hard financially and try to give to my girls what I can and that is very little. Their Dad lives in this huge house, new cars, big boat, vacations annually. Now that the 18 year old is 18, he doesn't give a dime for her. He wouldn't even purchase her books for college. I do not have the money for that, so her grandparents bought them.

 

Anyway, she likes to party and constantly have friends over. They have broken 2 couches and broke my bed frame. I have tried to talk to her to stop this and she does for awhile. She really isn't a mean kid, I just think she hates my guts. I have bought her a car that I cannot afford to buy. I pay $600 a month for her car and insurance. I have $105 left a month after I pay my bills to live on. I truly try to give what I can to my girls.

 

On 2 occasions she has come in drunk and I have fussed at her. She proceeded to call me a psycho bitch and that I am crazy. I slapped her and she came at me. Things got physical. I have even had to call the cops on her once to try to get her to calm down. I love this child unconditionally, but I don't know if I can take anymore. I have taken her to therapy and the therapist has told me that she really loves me, she is very angry at her Dad (he gives to the 12 year old) and therefore because I love her unconditionally, she takes it out on me.

 

Just last nite, I called her cell phone at 1:00am to see where she was, I couldn't sleep with her gone. I was worried. I heard her phone ringing upstairs, so I went to turn off the continuing ring and saw that she has me keyed in as "The Bitch". I stayed up last nite until 5:30 in the morning, very upset. I wrote her a letter to read this morning, asking her to please go live with her Dad.

 

I need advice, any.

[Errol]

It's called 'tough love' because it is so tough on the parent. Having her live with her dad is the right thing to do.

 

Personally, I would take back the car you purchased for her and let her father either drive her around or buy her a car. I would also only pay for 50% of her school costs and tell her to get the other 50% from her father. I had some problems with my oldest at age 18 and we actually got into the "if you live under my roof you follow my rules" yelling match and he moved out. I had been giving him money for school needs only to find out he was spending it on other things. I ended up paying directly for the things he needed and giving him gift certificates for food and clothes, etc. within an established budget. If he ran out of something important because he'd spent the money on something else then he had to make do without. He finally got a part-time job so he could have more money for 'fun.' The younger kids saw the example I set with him and they know/knew what they are/were in for when they start college. Think about the example you are setting for your younger child and what he may expect to get away with. He is already seeing the effect your daughter is having on your emotions and hopefully will key into that and not try to get away with anything like what your daughter is doing.

 

If it has gotten to where you have actually had to call the police and/or fear for your own personal safety then it is time she moves out. Have your locks changed too so that she cannot barge in whenever she wants.

 

I feel for you. Be strong.

[brashgal]

You did the right thing. I totally agree with Errol's advice. I have an 18 yo and while he is a great kid, sometimes it feels like he would suck me dry financially if I would let him. I laid out all the finances one day, how much for mortgage, utilities, car, food, his tuition and room and board, etc, etc. He was shocked, I don't think he had any idea of how much cash flows in and mostly out of my hands. He hasn't asked for anything since.

 

Good luck to you - it's a challenge raising teenagers but you are doing the right thing, especially for your 12 yo.

[SoleMate]

A very painful story, but she is 18, and you are a human being, she cannot crap on you this way no matter what her pain. Stop giving her cars, etc. Let her know the love is there, but the material goods are not. And do NOT allow her to disrespect you. This is as much for her good as for your own. She must NOT call you "The Bitch". You must not slap her, just lay down the law with words, firmness and love. Do send her to her father, and let her know that your love remains with her at all times.

 

Unconditional love should not mean unconditional crap absorption.

 

I speak as the mother of a well behaved 11 year old...

[genie]

Well, I've had a change in events since yesterday. It's long and sad, but here goes.

 

As I have mentioned I am living from payday to payday with not extra or anything in savings. I realized yesterday that I owed my youngest daughters annual registration fee for her tuition for school next year. It was due Feb 21. Because I am late on paying this, it is possible that she is not accepted for next year (it has happened to several kids). I called the school to see if they could help on this and they seemed to say they would work with me about being late. My daughter is a top athelete and a straight A student, so I think the school would accept her because of her achievements. They realize she will help them. I know schools shouldn't give sports such high regard, but they do. She was the first 6th grader to play JV Basketball. There was about 18 players(mostly 8th and 9th graders) and she was the 6th player. I am very proud of her. Anyway, not that that has anything to do with this, I just wanted you to realize why the school will work with me.

 

I do not see in the near future that I will have an extra $375 to even pay the school. I was in a panic and called my ex-husband (from hell) to see if he could help. He said I give you child support and you will not even get another dime out of me. I said, this is helping your daughter, not me. This man, I hope will rot in hell. Since my oldest daughter turned 18, he has nothing to do with her. She was a disappointment to him. She was offered a softball scholarship and turned it down and he didn't accept her grades, which were A,B,C and occasionally a D. As I mentioned before he will not help her with books or supplies for college. Also, keep in mind this man lives in a huge house and has many big toys.

 

I called my parents and they didn't have the money. I stooped so low as to call his mom to see if she would help. She hates my guts, but she is a good grandmother to both of my children. She was very ugly on the phone and said that if her son wouldn't help, then she couldn't, that would be interfering. I then told her that her son didn't care about his kids, that he had even told me that if it meant his kids were homeless when they were with me, he didn't care, he would get satisfaction out knowing that I was homeless. She got very upset and said I was such a liar and she hung up on me.

 

I was so upset that I had stooped so low to ask for help, for my daughters sake, her granddaughter and I got treated this way. I then called back and left very ugly message on her answering machine. The worst part that I told her was that her son was so evil that he took after her. I also proceeded to tell her that her son tried to sleep with my sister and my best friend when I was married to him. I told her that I know that he has hit his present wife recently in front of my daughter and that I know he drove my daughter home from New Orleans very drunk. I know that would hurt her, and she probably don't believe the things I said, but it is the truth. I then regretted it because I had a feeling they would call the police and have me arrested for improper telephone usage. Oh, but it did feel good to finally tell them about their great son.

 

Now back to my oldest daughter.

 

I called her very upset and told her everything, except for the things her dad did that betrayed me. At first she was in defense of him and her grandmother, which is what she has always done. I continued to tell her you do not know the hell these people have put me through. She cried and I cried and we actually talked. When I got home, she told me that she loved me and that she called her aunt(his sister) and found out that my ex husband and his wife are looking to buy a Mercedes Benz. She said that her aunt had gotten in an argument with the mother, because the mother didn't believe the things I said. The mother then hung up on her. The part about buy the Mercedes, upset my daughter very much, because they would not even give her the step moms older Maxima. She then called her Grandmother and asked her was she going to do anything to hurt me. Her grandmother said "that is between me and your mom, but if you are worried that I am going to try to get your mother in trouble, don't worry.

 

My daughter then told me that she is writing her dad a letter and letting him know how he has done her wrong all of her life. She wants him to know that if his goal was to hurt me, then yes my mom has struggled. If that makes him feel good, then feel good to know that she and her sister were hurt in this process. This is the first time she turned her anger from me to him.

 

I felt so proud, she defended me for once. I just can't see making her leave right now.

 

By the way, as humiliating as it is, I realize that I have the greatest friends, I was offered by 5 different people to help me (unfortunately I will have to take them up on it for my babies sake). I am rich when it comes to friends.

[Tony T]

Why are you doing so much for your daughter who treats you like crap??? $600 a month for a car??? You could have gotten her good, new transportation for $250 per month.

 

She's 18 now, she doesn't like you anyway, so you've got nothing to lose by asking her to get out of the house. Sell the car or somehow get out from under the payments...share them with her or whatever. You can't be a good mom by giving her everything she wants and letting her treat you like crap.

 

If you really want to do something good for her, start a fund for her psychotherapy. She's one screwed up kid who'll need industrial strength counselling if she wants to get along in this world once mom isn't around. She also needs some lessons on how to treat people and respect other people's property.

 

If she were my daughter, she would be out of the house today...or she would come home to find all her things at the street and the repo man ready to take the car back to the lot.

[SoleMate]

It was a long sad story, but there was a bright light at the end; your daughter acknowledging your love and support, and defending you. Mind you, I'm not 100% thrilled with the way you and she stick up for yourselves. You should be able to defend yourselves without attacking others. However, given how sorely you have been tested, it's forgivable.

 

By the way, I do not think you stooped at all low to ask for help for your daughter. Asking family for needed help is normal, not humiliating. You weren't asking for money to buy crack or visit hookers. They were low to refuse you, especially since it's clear they have the money to spare.

 

Have you tried getting the court to order the father to pay college costs? It has been done in Louisiana. Please see this website.. And good luck with everything.

http://www.la-legal.com/faq.htm#Can%20college%20students%20over%2018%20get%20child%20support

[AMN819]

I'd say take this from someone who is rather close to her age (21)...whatever YOU bought her, like the car and maybe tv's or dvd players...TAKE IT AWAY..she doesn't deserve it. I know you love your daughter and I can assure you she loves you as well...but she has the idea that SHE controls YOU and that YOU owe her something b/c you and "daddy" aren't together anymore. My question is: Is it better for her to go live with her dad for HER or YOU?? Is her dad gonna be working all the time to where he can't discipline her?? That would just make matters worse and she'd end up on drugs and getting arrested....Trust me..I hung out with people like this for a LOOONNNNGGG time...I'ts always the same outcome. You may want to force her to pay rent..that way she has to get a job and learn some responsibility.

[genie]

Her actual car note is $290, but the insurance is what kicks me in the a$$. When I added her and the vehicle, it went up $300. I know she is a disrespectful child, but here I go defending her. She was raised in a very bitter and ugly divorce. I have made my mistakes but my ex husband is the devil himself. My friends even call him Satan. He would not talk to me, he would go through her since she was 8 years old. Poor child caught in the middle. There was a time in the beginning, I was guilty of allowing that to happen. But in the later years, I refused to do it. He is now trying the same with the 12 year old.

 

That is probably the reason I have let her get away with so much. She recently has gotten a job at a health club, she couldn't get one without a car to get to work. She loves her job but admitted to me yesterday that she realizes that working there is not paying the bills. So this child is now going to have to stoop to working at Hooters. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just hate what she is going to have to put up with, with all the freaks we have out there.

 

AMN819 - what you said about is sending her to her Dad's helping her or me. Wow, that hit me hard, because I realized that it's for my peace and it will be her hell. Her dad is a very mean, manipulating, controlling person. When I was married to him, and left him because I caught him cheating, he has hated my guts. How dare I leave him! I was a object of his, that he thought he owned. He is so controlling that my youngest daughter told me that her step mom was helping her with homework and her dad came in the room and told his wife it was time for his wife to go to bed. Leaving my little one to work alone on a project that she needed help on.

 

I know you may wonder why I have let him have my youngest daughter alternate weeks. But I truly was trying to be unselfish, and wanted her to witness a marriage that I cannot show her. I wanted her to hopefuly have a relationship with her dad, unlike my oldest daughter. Also, most of all, I knew he could give her things that I can't and there is no way he would give it to her while she is at my house.

 

Oh yeah, I have put both of my daughters in therapy (thank God for insurance), but I still have these problems.

[morrigan]

I'd advise you to find out if your ex husband is required by Louisiana law to pay for a part of his children's college expenses. Non custodial parents are often required to pay some of the education expenses in several states, so your ex shouldn't be thinking that since your eldest girl is now 18, his financial responsiblities are over.

 

Good luck with your eldest daughter. I hope she starts to realize what a good mom she has.

[genie]

Thank you all for the posts. In the last few days, I have finally had some emotional peace, since the drama is dying down. I will check into the legal matters, thanks for the website. It's scary though, we just went to court and my child support went from $800 (for 2 children) to $170 (now 1 child). He threatens that if I take him to court, he'll sue for full custody. I am a good mom, but he will lie in court to make me look unfit. It's funny, because on the outside, he looks so like a descent man. I guess he is a wolf in sheeps clothing.

[Cariel]

I think you'd best just write off your ex-husband for any assistance with your daughter. As well, you might want to consider some counseling to help you put your experiences with him behind you

 

Personally, I think that you AND your daughter would benefit from some sort of counseling...either individual or family (and since things have ground to such a poor point, individual would probably be best to start with). In nearly every community, there is SOME sort of service available either at no/low cost or on a sliding scale. You can't do anything about her father - he sounds a perfect a**h*** - but you CAN work on you and a disinterested 3rd party can at least listen to your daughter without becoming defensive or judgemental and perhaps persuade her to think a bit about her attitudes.

 

Does your daughter have a job? At 18, there's no reason she shouldn't be paying at least part of her own way. When my son (the anti-scholar) graduated (by the skin of his teeth) from HS and had no interest in even the local community college, I gave him 30 days to get a job that would pay him enough for his car expenses (including insurance and repairs) and any non-essentials he felt he needed or move out. On day 28 I put the boxes, blank newsprint and strapping tape in his room and on day 29 he was employed.

 

Having to wait tables and miss out on some social life was quite the kick in the teeth for him, but he knew I was serious and it was the best thing I could have done for him. A year later he was at the community college and tho it will probably take him another year to even finish there as he attends part-time (he's still an unwilling scholar, LOL) he is saving money so he'll be able to transfer to a 4-year school and attend full-time after that. As well, he offered to pay rent when my company dissolved my department as redundant and I was unemployed for a couple of months...and he has continued to do so even tho I found an even better job after. It was a great maturing experience for him, and tho our relationship had never deteriorated to the extent that yours has with your daughter that could have happened had I not decided what to do and held my ground.

 

What advice would you give to a friend in your situation, without having experienced all the pain firsthand? It's time to get tough. Best of luck to you and keep us informed.

[Kat]

I would sell the car

[befuddled11]

Dear Genie,

 

I'm really so very sorry that you've had to go through all of this. It sounds like you've had a very tough life. However, it does sound like you're a very caring, loving, good mother.....don't forget to stop along the way and give yourself some credit, okay?

 

I'm sorry but it's just not right that you're having to dole out $600 a month so that your daughter can get to and from her job. Maybe you live in a small town, but if it's a city, surely public transportation would be alot cheaper. If that's not an option, then she needs to be working her butt off so that SHE can be reimbursing you monthly for the cost of the payment AND insurance. You are not in a financial position to be paying $600 for vehicle costs for her. If you only have $105 left over each month after her car stuff is paid, and your bills are paid, you're living too close to the line. That's a very stressful way to live.

 

It is NOT a parent's responsibility to provide their child with a car/gas/insurance. You need to sit her down and inform her that from this point on, she needs to be paying at LEAST $400 a month to you.......if she's working at Hooters, she'll be making good $ in tips. She should be able to afford $400 a month, and if not, she needs to find alternate transportation. There's millions of kids out there whose parents simply can't afford to pay for a car for them.......

 

You could also try calling around to different insurance companies to see if you can find one who will give you cheaper insurance......$300 a month is outrageous! Is it because she's young? Has she had accidents before? Why so much a month? Does that include YOUR insurance (vehicle) too?

 

Heck, if worse comes to worse, you could sell her car.........I'm sure you could find a reasonable vehicle (used) for $1000, and then you wouldn't have monthly payments....just the insurance. What kind of car is it? Is it a newer one?

 

If you sold the car, you'd have the $375 for your 12 yr old's school.....that would be one load off your mind.

 

Is there not some place around where you live, that's within walking distance, that she could work at, where she doesn't need a car to get to and from? I'm sorry, but you should not have to live on the financial edge monthly, all because you think your daughter needs a car. Millions of kids her age don't have one. Or they have to get a job and save up to have one, and then pay to maintain it on their own.